Today I am going to a work reunion, seeing people I haven't seen in 30 yrs. Many folks are bringing their spouses. Because (so far) I have chosen to stay with a dry drunk, I didn't even invite her. Although she has good attributes and is not acting alcoholic all of the time, she is also passive aggressive, angry, and blurts things out without any filter. I don't trust her in a social situation. There are very few ways I trust her actually. I think I need to face the reality and continue to ask myself, is this what I want for the rest of my life? Lyne
PosiesandPuppies said
Aug 12, 2018
(((((Lyne)))))
Hope you find your peace regarding this realization. I understand. I did so many social things by myself...it got so "old" trying to explain why my spouse was not with me. As I got healthier, I just stopped making excuses for him.
Iamhere said
Aug 12, 2018
(((Lyne))) - I so hear you and relate. Anytime my thinking goes to projection or the future, I do what I can to bring it back to today - this one day. It's hard and I am not always successful but I do try.
My AH and I are opposites by nature. I am an extrovert and he's an introvert. His family broke apart as the parents both died early 50s. One of cancer and one of heart attack. He was the oldest of 8 and 2 were still in HS. So, for him, family is hard, painful and brings him sadness. My family is large and has spent Easter, T-Giving & Christmas together every year since before I was born. We are reasonably close in spite of the disease and gather for these 3 minimally each year no matter what.
I would bring him early on, and it was obvious he was uncomfortable. He would want to leave earlier than I, which would irritate me. Over time, I learned it was kinder of me to give him the choice and sometimes he goes and sometimes he doesn't. He does not come with me to softball events, golf events, reunions, etc. He doesn't know anyone and I would prefer to catch up vs. be concerned about him.
My point is there are other reasons why a spouse doesn't come along. I have more joy when I can be me and allow him to be him. When asked where he is, my standard response is he was't invited.....my softball friends think I am fibbing about a spouse as some have known me 20-30 years, and have never seen him!! So - I do not make excuses, and rarely do others ask.....my golf friends are new to me and I've been honest - he has no interest in golfing with me/gals and if I force him to do it, we will not have fun!!
Keep doing you - miracles happen every day!
Freetime said
Aug 12, 2018
Lyne, have a great time at your work reunion. While it is often overwhelming to think about the future, I am glad you have made your own choice "just for today."
Bo said
Aug 12, 2018
It sounds like the issue is not inviting her vs not inviting her, bringing her vs not, etc. You sound definitive in your thinking and decision. So, that doesn't sound like the problem, as much as it's the so called, proverbial "bigger picture" so to speak. For me, I stopped bringing my wife to various functions -- work, charity, personal, etc. There wasn't a lot of thought or decision making. There was a history, numerous times, where her drinking ruined the night. I couldn't allow, nor would I accept that any longer, hence, I stopped inviting and bringing her.
What was an issue for me was the trust aspect, and the bigger picture. I arrived at a point in my recovery where alanon offered me and got me to a point where I was able to ask myself, openly and honestly, "is this the life I want to live" -- and while that may appear to be a simple question, it is not. It is not "linear" or "one dimensional" so to speak. Is this the way I want to live the rest of my life? Is this how I want to live for the rest of my life? Is this the life I want for the rest of my life? Why those questions? Well, I go back to my program and my recovery. I learned nothing changes if nothing changes. I learned that if I want to be healthy, I can't continue to "shop for bread in a hardware store" and while I can "do anything" for an hour or several, or "do anything" a few times a year because my spouse loves doing it (the opera or the ballet)...the "how important is it" doesn't always have an answer of "it is not very important at all" so to speak.
In my experience, personal and professional, I've found that if that is not a conscious decision, even if it is done one day at a time, for some, that's not living. For others it could be, and if it is, for them, that's great. But it's not great for everyone. Inside of this context, everyone has to decide who they are, what type of person they are, etc. I had a friend, who found recovery, got better, got healthy. His wife was still drinking. He asked himself these questions. I decided to stay. He was not waiting for her to quit, want to get sober, etc. He didn't have an expectation that it would happen. He didn't even live with the "it might happen". While I sponsored him, he was also a very close friend, so I know him very well, who he is, how he thinks, etc. He's always been brutally honest, with himself, with me, and with people. A real, quality man. So, he didn't project, he lived one day at a time, he asked how important is it, and he did ask is this how he wants to live the rest of his life. He just didn't know what the rest of HER life looked like. Five years later, nothing changed. Nothing changes if nothing changes. Ten years later, nothing changed. It was his decision. You don't know what you don't know, and some people are OK with letting that drive a decision. Others are not.
Each person is different. Me, when I asked that question -- the answer was no. Others ask that question, the answer is yes. Neither is right. Neither is wrong. Some, don't even ask the question. Perhaps they don't want to have to answer it. Perhaps they don't think it's important. For the person who says yes, they perhaps can't understand why, or how, the person who says no. And vice versa.
Nothing changes if nothing changes. If everything remained just as it is today...that is the context I ask the question..."is this the way I want to live the rest of my life" and "is this the life I want to live" and "is this how I want to live". I admire and respect people who arrive at a place where they can ask those questions. Alanon allowed me to get to that place, ask those questions, answer them, and make those decisions from a place of healthiness, quality and healthy well-being, intellect, strength, level-headedness, well thought out, and comfort -- meaning I was comfortable in going through the entire exercise and thought process -- and not making decisions from a place of fear, emotion, duress, fear, panic, stress, desperation, pressure, and anxiety.
All the best.
tiredtonite said
Aug 12, 2018
(((Lyne))) I hope you have a wonderful time at your work reunion. I think I understand where you are coming from. These events, holidays etc. were always sad reminders to me that I was not getting the intimacy from my marriage that other couples were experiencing. It was a painful sort of acceptance but prayer at times helped before showing up by myself. I could have a good time if I adjusted my thinking. I deserved to enjoy myself and continue to enjoy MY life. Taking in all that was around me and weighing my circumstances, what I could live with and couldn't helped me to get ready for the decisions that were ahead of me concerning my marriage. I'm glad you are choosing to go to your reunion. I know that at least early in my recovery, I cheated myself out of lots of enjoyment by wanting to avoid questions, embarassment, awkward feelings. I resented the A and believed they were responsible for these feelings I had and especially responsible for the fact that I was more often having thoughts of leaving them. If they'd only "show up." My experience was that I felt alone while living with my exah for reasons you describe and then even more alone when the marriage ended because I loved him so very much. Alcoholism is a dreadful illness for the alcoholic and those who love them and are affected. Our program tells us that we can be happy whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not but for myself that mean't redefining happiness, understanding that as long as my husband was active there were things that would not happen "together." Ultimately, my hp did for me what I could not find the courage to do for myself and I divorced. Although that brought less insanity, it didn't instantaneously bring sunshine and flowers either. It brought to my surprise incredible grief and a lot of emotional work. It was a blessing in disguise but my sanity and serenity were hard won. You will know what's right for you by whether feeling pass or nag at you day after day. Even today when the feelings continue to nag at me I can figure this is hp nudging me to pay attention. Again, I hope it's a fun event for you with your old coworkers. Some may decide to come on their own simply because it's about old coworkers getting together. It could be a lot of fun for you. TT
Lyne said
Aug 13, 2018
Thank you all so very much. Your ESH is needed and appreciated more than you know, Lyne.
SerenityRUS said
Aug 13, 2018
Lyne, please keep taking care of you .. whatever your comfort level is what you need to operate within at this point.
Hugs S :)
Bo said
Aug 13, 2018
I hope you had a great time at the reunion!!! All the best.
Keep your focus on YOU.
mamalioness said
Aug 16, 2018
Lyne, I hope you have a great reunion and I totally relate to the "not bringing the spouse with me" aspect...when I was married TWICE to alcoholics, it got that way for me....I shared less and less of my personal life with them because, even tho EX AH#2 was a sweetheart, he would get so plastered, I would have to drive us home and he did get loud and silly....not so bad, but he would drink MORE when we got to the house and I had to listen to him talk loud to the tv, etc., when I wanted to sleep
EX AH #1 was a 1000% a-hole with a capital "A"..he loved putting me down and doing it in a "joking" manner, thinking he was witty and cute, so Just decided to "do my social/family life" WITHOUT him
with both of them and this was prior to my getting into 12 steps, I aske myself "is this what I want for the remainder of my life???" "Is this where I want to be in 5-10 years???" like Bo said "nothing changes if nothing changes" and I knew if I were to EVER hope to be happy, equal, mutual in a relationship, I had to (EX AH#1) get away from the soul sucking abusive put downs and LEAVE or go nuts and maybe "go off" on him and so I left...i was DONE
with EX AH#2, i knew if I stayed, I would be living with the desease that ruined my life as a child and I desperately wanted change...i wanted to break the ongoing cycle of being around alcohol abuse...yea, I had my ONE wine cooler at night if a hard day at work, but that was IT....If I wanted change, I had to change ME.....what did I want??? what were my short term goals??? long term goals???? what REALLY did I want in a relationship????? I knew one thing...I wanted recovery and I knew that when (no ifs about it---I was going) i got into recovery, we would be MORE unevenly yoked...so I told him..."AA for U--alanon for me, or we are done.." I wanted a chance at a happy, peaceful, NON drinking life....so I had to make the move to take care of me....
I knew even then, that I was repeating old sick patterns and I was done...when I worked my program , the first 3 months, I couldn't believe how screwed up I was, but it was OK..because THIS time I was able to be brutally honest with myself and there was HOPE for CHANGE...CHANGE for the BETTER.....b4?? it was just rounds and rounds of misery with lots of non productive pain.......THIS pain is productive....
have fun at your reunion...and savor the minutes and hours that you are there with your friends.....IN SUPPORT
el-cee said
Aug 17, 2018
I didn't stay and it is an option. Staying is not the only option. Im getting to the stage in my recovery that I can see that the outside situation, people places and things is never my problem, its usually my attitude to the people places and things and thank God I have power to change these things. I have people in my life who although not alcoholic display many 'isms' and I find them challenging at times but they are my teachers, teaching me to value myself and have boundaries. I have a friend who is very self centred and egotistical and I learn so much about me from her. I can see that she challenges me to have boundaries about how much time I spend with her or how honest I will be with her or how tolerant I can be without losing my own rights.
I know living with an active alcoholic is very very hard and I also know that living with a dry drunk can be even worse at times. I just won't do it again for long. No way, the unacceptable behaviour is too much for me and the disease is too powerful and wins over me most times. I wish you peace either with or without your spouse.
Today I am going to a work reunion, seeing people I haven't seen in 30 yrs. Many folks are bringing their spouses. Because (so far) I have chosen to stay with a dry drunk, I didn't even invite her. Although she has good attributes and is not acting alcoholic all of the time, she is also passive aggressive, angry, and blurts things out without any filter. I don't trust her in a social situation. There are very few ways I trust her actually. I think I need to face the reality and continue to ask myself, is this what I want for the rest of my life? Lyne
Hope you find your peace regarding this realization. I understand. I did so many social things by myself...it got so "old" trying to explain why my spouse was not with me. As I got healthier, I just stopped making excuses for him.
My AH and I are opposites by nature. I am an extrovert and he's an introvert. His family broke apart as the parents both died early 50s. One of cancer and one of heart attack. He was the oldest of 8 and 2 were still in HS. So, for him, family is hard, painful and brings him sadness. My family is large and has spent Easter, T-Giving & Christmas together every year since before I was born. We are reasonably close in spite of the disease and gather for these 3 minimally each year no matter what.
I would bring him early on, and it was obvious he was uncomfortable. He would want to leave earlier than I, which would irritate me. Over time, I learned it was kinder of me to give him the choice and sometimes he goes and sometimes he doesn't. He does not come with me to softball events, golf events, reunions, etc. He doesn't know anyone and I would prefer to catch up vs. be concerned about him.
My point is there are other reasons why a spouse doesn't come along. I have more joy when I can be me and allow him to be him. When asked where he is, my standard response is he was't invited.....my softball friends think I am fibbing about a spouse as some have known me 20-30 years, and have never seen him!! So - I do not make excuses, and rarely do others ask.....my golf friends are new to me and I've been honest - he has no interest in golfing with me/gals and if I force him to do it, we will not have fun!!
Keep doing you - miracles happen every day!
What was an issue for me was the trust aspect, and the bigger picture. I arrived at a point in my recovery where alanon offered me and got me to a point where I was able to ask myself, openly and honestly, "is this the life I want to live" -- and while that may appear to be a simple question, it is not. It is not "linear" or "one dimensional" so to speak. Is this the way I want to live the rest of my life? Is this how I want to live for the rest of my life? Is this the life I want for the rest of my life? Why those questions? Well, I go back to my program and my recovery. I learned nothing changes if nothing changes. I learned that if I want to be healthy, I can't continue to "shop for bread in a hardware store" and while I can "do anything" for an hour or several, or "do anything" a few times a year because my spouse loves doing it (the opera or the ballet)...the "how important is it" doesn't always have an answer of "it is not very important at all" so to speak.
In my experience, personal and professional, I've found that if that is not a conscious decision, even if it is done one day at a time, for some, that's not living. For others it could be, and if it is, for them, that's great. But it's not great for everyone. Inside of this context, everyone has to decide who they are, what type of person they are, etc. I had a friend, who found recovery, got better, got healthy. His wife was still drinking. He asked himself these questions. I decided to stay. He was not waiting for her to quit, want to get sober, etc. He didn't have an expectation that it would happen. He didn't even live with the "it might happen". While I sponsored him, he was also a very close friend, so I know him very well, who he is, how he thinks, etc. He's always been brutally honest, with himself, with me, and with people. A real, quality man. So, he didn't project, he lived one day at a time, he asked how important is it, and he did ask is this how he wants to live the rest of his life. He just didn't know what the rest of HER life looked like. Five years later, nothing changed. Nothing changes if nothing changes. Ten years later, nothing changed. It was his decision. You don't know what you don't know, and some people are OK with letting that drive a decision. Others are not.
Each person is different. Me, when I asked that question -- the answer was no. Others ask that question, the answer is yes. Neither is right. Neither is wrong. Some, don't even ask the question. Perhaps they don't want to have to answer it. Perhaps they don't think it's important. For the person who says yes, they perhaps can't understand why, or how, the person who says no. And vice versa.
Nothing changes if nothing changes. If everything remained just as it is today...that is the context I ask the question..."is this the way I want to live the rest of my life" and "is this the life I want to live" and "is this how I want to live". I admire and respect people who arrive at a place where they can ask those questions. Alanon allowed me to get to that place, ask those questions, answer them, and make those decisions from a place of healthiness, quality and healthy well-being, intellect, strength, level-headedness, well thought out, and comfort -- meaning I was comfortable in going through the entire exercise and thought process -- and not making decisions from a place of fear, emotion, duress, fear, panic, stress, desperation, pressure, and anxiety.
All the best.
(((Lyne))) I hope you have a wonderful time at your work reunion. I think I understand where you are coming from. These events, holidays etc. were always sad reminders to me that I was not getting the intimacy from my marriage that other couples were experiencing. It was a painful sort of acceptance but prayer at times helped before showing up by myself. I could have a good time if I adjusted my thinking. I deserved to enjoy myself and continue to enjoy MY life. Taking in all that was around me and weighing my circumstances, what I could live with and couldn't helped me to get ready for the decisions that were ahead of me concerning my marriage. I'm glad you are choosing to go to your reunion. I know that at least early in my recovery, I cheated myself out of lots of enjoyment by wanting to avoid questions, embarassment, awkward feelings. I resented the A and believed they were responsible for these feelings I had and especially responsible for the fact that I was more often having thoughts of leaving them. If they'd only "show up." My experience was that I felt alone while living with my exah for reasons you describe and then even more alone when the marriage ended because I loved him so very much. Alcoholism is a dreadful illness for the alcoholic and those who love them and are affected. Our program tells us that we can be happy whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not but for myself that mean't redefining happiness, understanding that as long as my husband was active there were things that would not happen "together." Ultimately, my hp did for me what I could not find the courage to do for myself and I divorced. Although that brought less insanity, it didn't instantaneously bring sunshine and flowers either. It brought to my surprise incredible grief and a lot of emotional work. It was a blessing in disguise but my sanity and serenity were hard won. You will know what's right for you by whether feeling pass or nag at you day after day. Even today when the feelings continue to nag at me I can figure this is hp nudging me to pay attention. Again, I hope it's a fun event for you with your old coworkers. Some may decide to come on their own simply because it's about old coworkers getting together. It could be a lot of fun for you. TT
Hugs S :)
Keep your focus on YOU.
EX AH #1 was a 1000% a-hole with a capital "A"..he loved putting me down and doing it in a "joking" manner, thinking he was witty and cute, so Just decided to "do my social/family life" WITHOUT him
with both of them and this was prior to my getting into 12 steps, I aske myself "is this what I want for the remainder of my life???" "Is this where I want to be in 5-10 years???" like Bo said "nothing changes if nothing changes" and I knew if I were to EVER hope to be happy, equal, mutual in a relationship, I had to (EX AH#1) get away from the soul sucking abusive put downs and LEAVE or go nuts and maybe "go off" on him and so I left...i was DONE
with EX AH#2, i knew if I stayed, I would be living with the desease that ruined my life as a child and I desperately wanted change...i wanted to break the ongoing cycle of being around alcohol abuse...yea, I had my ONE wine cooler at night if a hard day at work, but that was IT....If I wanted change, I had to change ME.....what did I want??? what were my short term goals??? long term goals???? what REALLY did I want in a relationship????? I knew one thing...I wanted recovery and I knew that when (no ifs about it---I was going) i got into recovery, we would be MORE unevenly yoked...so I told him..."AA for U--alanon for me, or we are done.." I wanted a chance at a happy, peaceful, NON drinking life....so I had to make the move to take care of me....
I knew even then, that I was repeating old sick patterns and I was done...when I worked my program , the first 3 months, I couldn't believe how screwed up I was, but it was OK..because THIS time I was able to be brutally honest with myself and there was HOPE for CHANGE...CHANGE for the BETTER.....b4?? it was just rounds and rounds of misery with lots of non productive pain.......THIS pain is productive....
have fun at your reunion...and savor the minutes and hours that you are there with your friends.....IN SUPPORT
I didn't stay and it is an option. Staying is not the only option. Im getting to the stage in my recovery that I can see that the outside situation, people places and things is never my problem, its usually my attitude to the people places and things and thank God I have power to change these things. I have people in my life who although not alcoholic display many 'isms' and I find them challenging at times but they are my teachers, teaching me to value myself and have boundaries. I have a friend who is very self centred and egotistical and I learn so much about me from her. I can see that she challenges me to have boundaries about how much time I spend with her or how honest I will be with her or how tolerant I can be without losing my own rights.
I know living with an active alcoholic is very very hard and I also know that living with a dry drunk can be even worse at times. I just won't do it again for long. No way, the unacceptable behaviour is too much for me and the disease is too powerful and wins over me most times. I wish you peace either with or without your spouse.