I attend a Book Study Group Meeting in which we read from "Discovering Choices" and then take turns sharing on the topics covered.

I have been observing more and more that members are straying from the topics read in our book and then vent/dump about outside personal problems unrelated to the topics. Newcomers do this but do not understand that it should not be done, as they do need to vent. Last week was especially bad for me and yesterday there were other examples.

What are the Al Anon customs in other Book Study meetings?

When one does stray and vents/dumps, what are some good ways to bring the focus back to what the meeting is suppose to adhere to?

 Good topic Walt. ...

Big city rules work- because there are groups to choose from.

In my neck of the woods- we have to try and adapt- to hold our one and only group together.

There is no gaping deep gulf here.

As an older member now- I see that we need regular reliable meetings with few changes.

When i was young I embraced change. I would wriggle and fume if meetings were full of rigmorale, and short on sharing...

One answer is for a group to have several meetings during the week- with different formats... meetings are cheap and easy to set up.

 ...

To each one who responded, thanks. Some good ideas given which we never tried.

i particularly liked the passing of the Study Book and reserving 10 Minutes at the end for off topic sharing. I will pass these to our group.

Walt walking away from the meeting is indeed an option and i have done the same.   If the meeting is important to you, possibly a group decision to   change the "sharing  format"  announced at the beginning would help.

We have a weekly Step Study meeting where we announce that sharing 'should" remain on the step but if the member needs-- any other topic is acceptable. All seem to honor that request, stay to the step of the week and then include their other concerns.

Good Luck

 Hi Walt, and y'all...

the content of meetings vary a fair bit- from place to place- and they all remain true to Alanon...

Tradition 4. I was schooled to believe that if a new member came along the meeting became a step 1 meeting.

And all members shared their own step one. I did it here recently on MIP Alanon. Did not expect others to follow- but some did.

-D.

Yes Walt, I have experienced that frustration too, of members not staying on topic. when I think that thought, I feel "cheated on a good meeting."

at some point, I began to relate to them... I recalled how I strayed from topic in the beginning, as well. At the time, I knew it was frustrating to the old-timers which sometimes scared me away from meetings...

...but all I could talk about in the beginning, was the insanity going on at home. I needed group validation because my alcoholic always shifted blame onto me, blah, blah.... so I was so confused, indeed it was years of confusion!!! so I needed to talk about.. and undo the knots of alcoholic insanity inside of me... for a very long time.

It was my sponsor who assured me it was okay to let the poison come up during a meeting because I would never get well until I did that. she let me know that BEFORE step one is our denial, minimizing and suppressing.   she encouraged me to talk about what was going on (the insanity) as the way of waking up and coming out of denial.

she often said, "If you can't be wherever you are in an al-anon meeting, where can you?!!!" She "lived" and modeled a program of acceptance... of all people, didn't just preach it.

I was at a meeting once where we had a newcomer. she was crying during the meeting. Meeting topic was tradition 11. most members were smiling and laughing during their shares on tradition 11...

I was heartbroken. I decided to model a meeting from a previous state which was... whenever we have a newcomer, we have the OPTION of sharing on pre-determined topic as well as on STEP ONE. in this way, our "agenda" let's "happenstance" or the Higher Power, be in charge of the meeting. I thought it was best for me to let go of rigidity and learn to go with the flow, it brings more peace.

If you think about it, anyone who focuses on their problems... is someone who is suffering. we are all on God's timing, everyone is meant to have their own personal relationship with Higher Power. when I disagree or resist that...

I surely need more al-anon meetings, lol

To you Al Anon friends who have shared on the issue I raised. Now I wish to call upon you to "suggest" from your program experience how I might have handled my request for help from those "3 members with what I thought was good Al Anon program????"

First a little background about me:

I am now 86 1/2 years of age, was trained in the Naval Aviation branch in electronics during the Korean Conflict, on the GI Bill got an Electronics Engineering degree, then spent 40 years designing airborne equipment or specifying requirements for ground based information systems for the military and designing them. In other words, I was trained and practiced to identify problems, investigate the issues, identify alternative solutions, then design a good product. I got real good at preparing processes for getting things done.

I got into Al Anon 3 times; in the 1970's briefly, in the 1980's seriously for 4-5 years attending 3 meetings a week chairing Groups and was one of 6 rotating Meeting Chairs for a South County Beginner's Group with a 6 week program, averaging 20-40 attendees. Lastly, I was in Al Anon the past 2 years with my most recent Group and presented an invited Red Light-Green Light paper at a Florida 2017 Assembly on Crosstalk.

Here is what I sent to my selected 3 Members with Good Program:

I look to each of your as being members of our Gentle Journey AFG with good programs with leadership proven. Therefore I am requesting your collective assistance.

At the last 2 meetings I attended and Chaired one of, I was affected by actions of another to me ad the Chair and off topic personal sharings, which would have been better for them to do outside the meeting or with a Sponsor. As a result I am taking an extended break from meetings but have addressed 6 issues I see, offered my personal suggestions for improvement and captured CAL experiences from the Beginners Packet for how Al Anon suggests to handle them.

Because time after meetings for business is insufficient to deal with 6 items and so few participate I am suggesting you 3 to be on an Ad Hoc Task Force to reach consensus as to how to conduct one or several Group Conscience meetings and to receive your findings and recommendations. I dont see another efficient alternative. Is there one tho?

I am updating what I previously shared in a paper with you Karlyn and Bill and hope to have it ready tomorrow. We are not in a rush and I see with this how we may make our Group meetings even better for the most members.

Please consider and accept doing this needed service. I will assist as you may determine. You may wish to get Group OK to proceed; your choice.

Thanks in advance.

Walt, of Port Orange

And this is the material I sent about the 6 issues I raised:

GENTLE JOURNEY AL ANON FAMIY GROUP ISSUES

Walt, Port Orange, Fl

August 3, 2018

Purpose

To share some issues I see happening at our meetings and to offer some suggestions. There is not enough time at the end of meetings to present all this then.

Summary of Problems

1.     Providing the Program Chair Some Latitude with the Agenda

2.     Sharing Off Topic and Venting on Outside Personal Situations

3.     Need for Meeting Chair to limit Off Topic Venting

4.     Resolving the Closing Prayer Tabled Issue from December 2017

5.     We lack a Group Chairperson for Handling Matters Like These

6.     Handling Business Meetings better for reaching a Group Conscience

1.   Providing the Program Chair Some Latitude with the Agenda

At a recent meeting which I Chaired, just prior to moving to the Book Study portion, I introduced a question just published in the August issue of the Forum. It asked What Are the Principles of Al-Anon?. I read the short sharing of Patricia B., of Virginia, in which was asked What are the principles to you? I then passed that question to the whole Group.

At that point one member raised essentially a Point of Order, and strongly stated it was a Book Study meeting and to get on with it. I responded that in time that would be done, but there was insistence to do it then. In a very short while, as no one offered an answer to the question, I did start the Book Study part of the program. During that portion, there was some sharing given unrelated to the Topic read, but no one objected to that. Was that a double standard?

Suggestions: My question now is: Should the Program Chair be empowered with some latitude to briefly introduce something which he/she believes would be beneficial to the Group? In this instance I felt this was a very important question and felt it would be beneficial to share it. My experience from other Group meetings is that latitude like this is provided to the Program Chair. Do we wish to provide for it in our Group meetings?

2.   Sharing Off Topic and Venting on Outside Personal Situations

I have been observing more and more that members are straying from the topics read in our book Discovering Choices and then vent/dump about outside personal problems unrelated to the topics. Newcomers do this but do not understand that it should not be done, but they do need to vent. Last week was especially bad for me and yesterday there were other examples.

Suggestions: This says to me we still could do a better job of handling newcomers by meeting with them outside in a small grou, providing them some basic guidelines/handouts and introduce what Al Anon is about and how meetings are conducted. The Group then as a whole would benefit.

3.   Need for Meeting Chair to limit Off Topic Venting

Here, the Meeting Chair needs to maintain better order over both the off topic venting and length of time some are exceeding. Yesterday at the meeting end, the Chair did tactfully do this and was able to move on to the Closing.

Suggestions: We could add a sentence in our announcement, where the Book Study is introduced, to stress that sharing is to be directed at the topic or topics being read from Discovering Choices and to limit the length of time sharing so others who wish will have an opportunity to share. Further, personal non-topic related issues should be held til after the meeting to share one on one or with another, and to stress the need to get a Sponsor.

4.   Resolving the Closing Prayer Tabled Issue from December 2017

I have had several members share with me how they are bothered by the saying of the Lords Prayer at the closing. Last December this issue was tabled by then GR, Judy. But it needs to be resolved and I believe I uncovered how it can be done quite smoothly.

Over a year ago I asked if there was a Group Conscience spelling out the saying of the Lords Prayer as the Closing Prayer and was told there was. I then requested for all the previous Group Consciences to be captured and written down, which Bill compiled and a copy was provided and is in our Group Literature box.

The last time Bill attended before he and his wife were going to Europe, before a meeting I asked him, as he had the printed Group Conscience printout in his hand, to show me where the Lords Prayer policy was written. He and I were surprised to learn that there was no Group Conscience recorded as having been adopted, spelling that out to be followed. WOW, that was news.

Then, when a member read the WELCOME at that same meeting, a sentence stood out to me in which it said (here I paraphrase as I do not have a copy of the WELCOME but I did read it at yesterdays meeting) that discussion of religion and the use of non-Conference Approved Literature were to be avoided. Further, later, I checked the Al Anon and Alateen Service Manual and found this under the Closing of the Meeting: Will all who care to, join me in closing with the                 prayer? There it leaves it optional for what one uses. But in our Closing printed material I remember it said Closing Prayer, but not the Lords Prayer. Most of the time we do say the Lords Prayer, followed by the Al Anon and Alateen Declaration.

Suggestions: This seems pretty straight forward. As Al Anon policy says we are to avoid religion and non-Conference Approved Literature, and that no Gentle Journey Group Conscience ever approved for our Group to use the Lords Prayer (which is a universally recognized prayer of the Christian religions) , but that our Service Manual does provide for a Prayer to be used in the Closing with the Declaration suggested, I suggest we could use the Serenity Prayer (is there any other CAL prayer to consider) followed by the Declaration. If we do, then, I suggest they be spelled out in our Closing reading.

Would a Group Conscience then be needed to just follow approved Al Anon suggestions, to use an approved prayer (Serenity) and Declaration?

5.   We lack a Group Chairperson for Handling Matters Like These

I feel it is at a time like this, when a member wishes to raise an issue or two, that it would be helpful to have one member approved as the Group Chairperson, for a period of time, to whom the matter could be shared, considered, and then the best way of handling it at a Group Meeting decided, prepared and dealt with.

Suggestions: In this instance now, I did not have such a person I could discuss these matters with to act upon them and I did not wish to introduce this while Bill was still away, officially, so I elected to share with each of you, whom I feel will make the best Group decision about the issues being raised. The GR is not the Group Chairperson, nor is the Secretary, but only represents the Group at District Meetings. Of course it could be decided to add that function to the GRs role, but I do not favor that.

6.   Handling Business Meetings better for reaching a Group Conscience

I am bothered by 2 aspects with our Business Meetings. First, as it was decided by a past Group Conscience to hold them after a meeting, they are not well attended. But, for a Group Conscience to represent unanimity, we do need a much larger attended meeting than what I have seen occurring. Secondly, I feel, as is suggested in our Service Manual, they need to be better prepared for.

Suggestions: If we better prepare for a Business Meeting, like having a Group Chairperson (if we had one) form a Committee to prepare for it, announcing it in advance, providing handout/emailed materials on what is to be considered and so forth, we might agree to change and hold the Business Meeting between all of the Opening readings and the start of the Book Study, at which time a much larger, and better prepared/informed number of members will be in attendance. That way each Group Conscience will represent more of unanimity, then what I have experienced.

Action To Be Taken

If you wish to share your feelings on any of these issues, you may email them to me at:

welden@cfl.rr.com

NOTE: I will be out of town at the first September Business Meeting.

By Walt, Port Orange, FL

Of the 3 I asked to help me, the former GR did not reply, the current Secretary asked not to be sent more emails and referred me to a reading on "Being a Controller" and the 3rd said he saw no problems, even tho he was in Europe when I saw them. I responded to each bringing to their attention Concept Five, on Minority rights and obligation to raise issues, with no response from any.

My question now to the Message Board participants is: 

How might I sought their assistance better?

Thanks in advance.

A "group inventory" is what comes to mind. You will find the information by googling Al-Anon Guidelines, Taking a Group Inventory G-8a.

Long ago, our group announced that we'd be holding a group inventory.  we explained that it would occur for 2 successive weeks during a group conscience held after those 2 meetings. For four weeks, we handed out the inventory questions so everyone could reflect and prepare their answers well in advance.

This group inventory resulted in a few changes to the meeting. I personally did not like the changes, though it turned out precisely the way it was meant to be.. the new rules seemed to make others feel more "safe" and "secure."  This and other similar events brought a shift to my personal "ambition" and I learned to get my "security" from a more reliable source.  In the end, I felt happy for all of us.  

So to me, there is nothing "unfortunate" about your situation, that is my ESH.   You offered up "service," doing only what you believe HP would have you do. Sometimes people reject our service -- what does it matter as long as we do what we believe God would have us do.

I know you will agree that ultimate peace is the abandonment of all attachment to the result.

Have faith ((Walt))  From where I sit, Higher Power is guiding you closer still..  I came to realize I didn't need a perfect al-anon fellowship as much as I needed to work on perfecting my relationship with Higher Power.  That was "the problem" all along and defines the word "recovery" for me, as well.  It's all Good.

Hi Walt,

Thank you for bringing this discussion, my area's groups are currently dealing with very similar issues about the venting and off-topic shares, so it's been great to hear all the viewpoints here.

I have experience leading some consensus decision-making (which is at least very similar to a group conscience) for a different kind of group and I want to add some thoughts to give a perspective on how you might have handled it (you asked for that in one of your replies), or well really how I might handle it. First I want to say that I enjoyed reading the well thought out communication sent to your group's representatives. I've written things like that which were received well, but the only times they were successful in a group using consensus were when the group became aware of an issue, and the group's consensus was to ask me to provide analysis and a plan for it to consider. Other times when I presented a fully formed analysis with suggestions to solve a problem I got a similar response to what you got. Over the years I learned some things about working in groups using consensus.

I was told that the person leading the process should refrain, as much as possible, from expressing their own opinion during the process. They should focus on making sure that all the other people feel heard and facilitate the logistics of the meeting and/or information. I don't think this may apply to you in this situation, but it might apply in that whenever I had a strong opinion that I wanted to voice at a consensus meeting I made sure that I was not one of the people who had to run the meeting. 

A strong consensus is built by the whole group from beginning to end. So if I was you I would start by telling the whole group in your business meeting what I personally had difficulty with to see if others felt the same way. You might have gotten agreement from other people in this larger setting which you did not get from your 3 chosen representatives. Or you might have recognized that you were so much in the minority that it wouldn't be worth your time to pursue the issues with that group. If you did get agreement that the group wanted to address these issues, then it is great when everyone gets the chance to come up with suggestions together. Someone might have thought of a solution that you would like better than your own. That has happened to me! When people in my groups had "buy in" from the beginning stage of deciding to work out an issue, to talking together to find solutions, to the end of having to implement a change after the decision, then they wanted to respect and remember the new changes.

Consensus can be different from taking a vote. I think that making some effort to hear and try to accommodate everyone's different perspectives before coming to a conclusion is helpful. Sometimes my old group decided not to change a current practice, but because they recognized that a minority had a difficulty with it, they made a much smaller change that improved things for the minority opinions. Right now an Al-Anon group I'm in is deciding whether to change from sharing by going in order around the circle to sharing pop corn style. My vote would be to stay with the circle order, but I will probably hear lots of other people's very good reasons why they want to change that. In a vote I would vote no to the change and accept the decision if I am out-voted. With a consensus decision I have the opportunity to view it as giving my consent to a change that I might not want for myself but do actually want for the sake of the other people my group.

All this is my opinion, not CAL, so please take what you like and leave the rest. And my experience is in consensus decision-making, not group conscience, but it seems to work the same to me. Also it must be said that making decisions by consensus is not very time efficient.

WOW! Great sharing and thanks.

I feel the 3 I asked to handle my issues focused mostly on them rather than agreeing on a process which the Group might respond to and participate more fully in. So that got us off to a bad start right off.

Why our Secretary chose to label me a Controller I dont know for I never directed anything but rather only offered my suggestions.

I was floored when I brought Concept Fives right and obligation of a minority opinion to their attention and then got NO further response.

Finally I appealed this to our District Representative who is seeking Area advice. Its in their hands.

You can appeal all you want, as I did. They are as powerless as any of us because every group and district is still FREE to interpret the traditions however they do.   This is not to say that your situation won't unfold in a pleasing way for you, and I hope that it does.

For me, when I found certain groups causing me more stress than peace (no differently than the old alcoholic relationship) I realized I was being given an "opportunity" to experience serenity directly (through spiritual awareness/step 11.)  I realized nothing is missing in the 12 steps when "utilized," that's the key.  For me, my deepest desire and prayers were being answered even amid the seeming "trials" and that is the ESH I can share with you.

I can offer one more suggestion, although I have no direct experience using this particular CAL material:

Talk To Each Other/Resolving Conflicts within Al-Anon (S-73)

This is a kit that includes suggestions for groups, districts, AIS/LDCs, etc. to use in conflict resolution. The kit contains:

Ideas for conflict resolution using an informed group conscience
Things to think about as an individual
Guide for Holding a Discussion to Resolve Conflict
Loving Interchange to Resolve Conflict Wallet Card (S-71)
Conflict Resolution Using Our Twelve Traditions cards (S-72)


Brightest Blessings ((Walt))  Stay open minded to your Higher Power's ability to bring you every fulfillment.

 Yes 2HP... I found too that some groups just re-traumatise me- because they are just the same as my FOO.

Coming here has been really helpful- because there are 12-steppers here- who have been through it all.  ...

Today I say "12-Steppers" instead of 'old timers'. I believe a 12-Stepper can be at any age.  ...

Walt wrote:

---

Thanks all. I am realizing from each of your sharings that there is very good program here.

---

                   ...

LET'S JUST LET IT BE!!!!!

Sandra (MY DISTRICT 4 REPRESENTATIVE)

I shared my experience with 3 members who I felt were leaders with good programs. They were not able to see what I 
was sharing, for whatever reason.

So, that is all I can and should do: to carry the message, so let us just let it be.

I choose to move on now in a different direction as I no longer live with either an active or recovering alcoholic for she 
passed away 13 years ago. I just wanted to strengthen my serenity and way of life with my current co-Al Anon 2nd wife 
and I have the tools to do that without this particular AFG.

Thank you for helping.

Walt of Port Orange

-- Edited by Walt on Tuesday 28th of August 2018 09:31:02 AM

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