I'm new to this so please be gentle. I rang Al anon a few weeks ago who gave me the details of a local meeting, but I've 3 children under 10 and daren't leave them at the moment. I will sort something out after the holidays though.
I could do with some advice though, because I can't think clearly at the moment. My husband is a Jekyll and Hyde binge drinker. Lately I've struggled to hide it from the children. He hasn't hurt them or me physically I suppose but I'm always afraid that he might. I'm also always wondering what effect seeing their dad behaving the way he does will have on them.
Anyway, I've done it all wrong, and Inthe last few weeks told him that if he drinks again then I will leave (I am also worried about the effect that would have on the children).
He begged and begged to be able to drink at his mother's birthday party (last Saturday), and eventually I said I'd put up with it if he limited it to 3 drinks. I'm sure you won't be surprised to read that he had lots more than that and left me feeling humiliated. We were asked to leave in the end (children too). I can barely look at him even now.
So there are 2 weddings coming up. Both for his side of the family, and I really don't want to go. My reasons are because I an sick of the anxiety I go through worrying if he will hide his drinking/how I can lessen the damage if he gets drunk etc. I'm also sick of the stuff he says to me, and of feeling as though his family are laughing at me. I'd rather just hide where I don't have to be linked to his behaviour. The second wedding is for a family member who told me last week that she thinks I'm the one with the problem not him. She went home before his behaviour got really bad and we were kicked out. She actively encouraged him to drink more and more. I really don't want to see her.
I suppose if I'm honest I am also kind of wanting to embarrass him a bit too. Let him squirm explaining my absence.
On the other hand, I have accepted the invitation and would cost the hosts money if I don't take my place. Also the backlash from my mother in law and husband won't be pretty.
I ultimately want to step out of this relationship in a way which will not hurt the children too badly.
Do you think I should goto these weddings?
A nother said
Jul 29, 2018
Sorry, I had thought I'd put breaks in for paragraphs, but obviously not!
DavidG said
Jul 29, 2018
Hi Nother... welcome...
stateside it is still Sunday- but here it is Monday morning- and the sun shining over a winter's day.
First up- best dressed. ~sigh~ this is not a spelling test- or test of grammar... really good share, my friend. ...
I am sure here you will get responses from members- all we kin offer is our ESH- experience strength and hope. ...
best wishes,
DavidG.
el-cee said
Jul 29, 2018
This all sounds so stressful and I remember all this when I lived with my ex. I also stayed for the children terrified of hurting them if I left and terrified of hurting them if I stayed. It's awful and it's alcoholism all that confusion and chaos. The disease grows in it. I went to alanon over 6 years ago and within weeks I got some clarity and sanity. It was the best thing I ever did for my children too. I learned a lot about the disease of alcoholism and how it was running riot through my family. The drinking the manipulation lies guilt anger resentment was rife in us. It was like we were enemy's in a warped family dynamic. We were sick. We don't give advice in alanon just share our experience and the tools we learned to make it better and believe me it gets better but it takes meetings reading the literature working the steps. You can't make a meeting yet but try reading about alanon here or on the official website. Listen to some if the podcasts of those who walked in your shoes and got better. There is also leaflets available on line. 'The merrygoround called denial' is a good one. Glad you reached out and thus could be the start of an amazing journey for you if your ready for change.
Freetime said
Jul 29, 2018
Welcome, A_Nother -- I understand how you feel. I'm wrestling with a similar situation myself now, and I've pretty much concluded not to go to the event. In my case, I'd like to see the "guest of honor" for this upcoming event but not the rest of the family... so I'm planning to visit that person alone at another time.
My suggestion is to think about which choice is better for your mental health. Maybe make a list of pro's and con's. Will the downsides (other people complaining or whatever they choose to think of you) outweigh the upsides (freeing yourself and children from a distressing situation)?
.
A nother said
Jul 29, 2018
Thanks for your responses. I wish you could advise me, but it is probably better to think for myself. He has 'nipped out' for an hour, leaving me in a hotel room with the children (we are on holiday). I feel sick. But I suppose that is part and parcel of this illness.i will listen to the podcasts and hope this fog in my mind clears.
el-cee said
Jul 29, 2018
Your not alone in what your going through. We have been where you are. Let us know if the podcasts helped. Keep reaching out here. Ask questions share your feelings it all helps. Try and enjoy your holiday if you can even in small ways where you can do something nice for yourself.
DavidG said
Jul 29, 2018
A nother wrote:
Thanks for your responses. I wish you could advise me, but it is probably better to think for myself. He has 'nipped out' for an hour, leaving me in a hotel room with the children (we are on holiday). I feel sick. But I suppose that is part and parcel of this illness.i will listen to the podcasts and hope this fog in my mind clears.
Yes... this came up here two or three months ago. When someone joined up here- in the middle of a situation...
...there is a lot of strength in this group- and people get a range of responses- which I think is healthy...
For al of us- it does end up being our call- in the end.
I came from a world- where there were no adult to adult conversations- just endless conflict. ... ...
so it is a real relief to have mature conversations. No rights and wrongs.
I am an old timer- 37 years coming up. Being in Alanon took time for me- coming through it- as a kid. But I have never regretted it.
I like it here- this group- with members from all around the world... unity in diversity. ...
would love to hear how things go for you- here, we can join the group at any time.
Take care, Nother... it is really tough and raw- right at the start.
I have sat in the rooms and let it all go, There are no strangers here. We need this support.
In the end it does make all the difference! ...
...
Iamhere said
Jul 29, 2018
Welcome to MIP nother - glad you found us and glad that you shared....as you already know, Al-Anon is a recovery program/group for family and friends affected by the drinking in another. I hope you can squeeze out some time to attend meetings - having local support has been necessary for my journey.
What we learn in recovery is to put self first. This doesn't mean we wall off from all others, and become self-seeking people - we just pause and consider our own needs first and then offer service/support to others. I do believe that there is no shame in not going to these weddings if you don't want to and we also learn in recovery to not JADE - Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain. Simply stated, you can just say you do not wish to attend. Doesn't have to include the drinking or blaming another or the anxiety you feel - we talk all the time about, Say what we mean, mean what we say and don't say it mean.
Alcoholism affects us indirectly - our thinking becomes distorted and we do things that we don't want to in an effort to 'keep peace'. What we find is that an alcoholic is going to drink, that's what the disease tells them to do. We have choices though - and one is to remove ourselves from any situation that makes us feel uncomfortable. I often asked myself early in recovery, what would a sane person or normal person do in this circumstance.
There are meetings here twice daily. Look to the top left for the times and the link to the meeting/chat room. Literature for Al-Anon is available on the Al-Anon site as well as many libraries, book stores and even ebay. We use meetings, literature, steps, and more to focus on ourselves and find our peace/joy in spite of the disease and the diseased.
Keep coming back - you aren't alone and there is hope and help in recovery!
Bo said
Jul 29, 2018
In my past, I dealt with this about two dozen times -- weddings, bar/bat mitzvahs, and even charity events. So, bottom line, in the end, what did I do? I did NOT go to the events. Period. I didn't care about the fallout, backlash, etc. -- and it would have been from multiple people. Yes, there was more than one person who thought I was the problem, not her! Until, they saw her alone, at these various events, without me, and then they go to see the reality of the situation. It didn't change anything, but they saw it. Prior to that, every time I was there with her, most people thought it was me. She was drunk, and when she lashed out at me, yelled at me, etc. -- most people thought I MUST have done something for her to be that way. Then, they saw her at these events without me, and even though she didn't get mean, lash out, yell, etc. -- they saw that it was her and her drinking, and not me. Again, it didn't change anything. But, guess what? I was OK. I wasn't in the line of fire. I wasn't a nervous, anxiety-ridden wreck.
The backlash was NOT even close to being as bad as going! In addition, the backlash ended up being zero -- because by then, I learned. I got better, I got healthy, and I w. as working the program...so the backlash was nothing. It didn't impact me at all, because I had already learned my tools and had implemented them, and boundaries. I learned acceptance, and immersed myself in it. I mastered acceptance. I was able to stop arguing, fighting, trying to fix, trying to prove my point, trying to beg, be heard, and so on and so on and so on. As such, I was able to "let go" of so many things. I got better -- and I was no longer impacted by the drama, chaos, turmoil, havoc, and the impact of my wife and her drinking.
Go to meetings, as many as you can, as often as you can. Find a sponsor and start working with him/her. It works if you work it, so work it, you're worth it.
A nother said
Jul 29, 2018
Thanks for the replies. I won't go to the weddings. Husband has been drinking tonight and I've not been able to sleep at all. The up side to that is I've listened to lots of podcasts and read lots of other posts. It all sounds so familiar.
We drive home from our holiday tomorrow. I hope he is sober enough to drive, because I haven't been able to sleep at all.
I suppose the thought of divorce is too big for me now. I've decided to break it down into small manageable chunks, starting with telling my mil and husband that I won't go to the weddings and then preparing the house for sale. There are lots of snagging jobs to focus on. In the meantime, I will try to do the meeting s on this forum.
I feel as though the podcasts have given me a corner of a comfort blanket, and I want to grab it and wrap myself in it.
I also need to let go of the hurt of these broken promises (he promised not to drink for the rest of the holiday), and resentment that he will move on with his life after me and probably be fine. I have suspended my career for the children, so he earns way more than I can. I will be broke for a long time!!
A nother said
Jul 29, 2018
Also, he has more friends and family than me. I've lost friends over the years because of his behaviour, and I'm also not as charming as him. I can see the near future being one where I'm sat at home knowing that he is having a ball elsewhere. I used to be a fun person. Now I'm anxious and prickly. Oh, this road looks so hard.
Freetime said
Jul 29, 2018
I think you are doing great! You are so right ... manageable chunks, one day at a time. Best wishes for a safe and serene drive home from your holiday.
hopefulmom1 said
Jul 30, 2018
I am also new to this group and can relate. I'm sorry you are going through this. My husband never got outwardly drunk in public, but saved it all for home. He drank when the kids and I went to bed, but there were many horrible times, fights, and all of them ended with me in tears feeling smaller than I thought possible. St. Patricks Day was the worst because I made the decision to not have a conversation with him after he had been drinking. He became extremely upset and got verbally abusive in front of my and my kids. He also pushed me into a dresser and a friend called the police. It was so traumatizing for me and the kids and I just don't know how to move on. He promised he wouldn't drink anymore and I believed him until I found it in his car. Now I am again heartbroken and don't know what to do. He thinks everything is fine and I should be moved on about the situation but I'm not. He thinks it is unfair that he cant drink a couple at a social situation and I just can't see how he can even think to ask that. This is a heartbreaking situation for all of us. But luckily there are people here who understand. Keep coming back and I will too. Hugs to you!
KennyFenderjazz said
Jul 30, 2018
A nother wrote:
Also, he has more friends and family than me. I've lost friends over the years because of his behaviour, and I'm also not as charming as him. I can see the near future being one where I'm sat at home knowing that he is having a ball elsewhere. I used to be a fun person. Now I'm anxious and prickly. Oh, this road looks so hard.
In my experience alcoholics aren't really having fun. They generally are miserable, because in there somewhere they know that they are trapped. The merry-go-round has to go on to keep them from feeling that feeling.
I hope you can make it to a meeting soon, and the podcasts are a great idea in the meantime!
kenny
Iamhere said
Jul 30, 2018
(((Nother))) - so glad that the lack of sleep gave you the time to keep reading, absorbing, embracing. I agree with Kenny - and can speak from the A side experience....what appears 'fun' is truly not so and there is a huge amount of pain and denial. Be gentle with you and I'm all for one day at a time, and 'chunking' things down to actionable tasks. That's the best way that my brain works - and aligns well with the Serenity Prayer - which we lean into often.
Just keep doing all that you can for you one day at a time. Safe travels home!
Jill said
Jul 30, 2018
I hope you can drive your family to safety if he's drinking. THEY DON'T DRIVE SAFELY!
In my experience, second chances (and third, etc.) are coming. They pop up a lot. I just couldn't see them when I was mired in someone else's behavior.
When I got my head cleared, I took small steps and the fog cleared.
You'll be fine. Keep coming back. We do this together.
JerryF said
Jul 30, 2018
Aloha Nother and welcome to the board...I am also a Nother as far as this disease goes and was born and raised in it. With my participation in the disease it almost took my life along with all of the others I am aware of that either did or also come close to loosing theirs. Alcohol ism is a fatal disease if not fully arrested by total abstinence.
You're looking for new solutions and alternative behaviors so that you can find peace of mind and serenity and are willing to take little steps rather than the end step of "getting rid of the bum". Actually you are mostly free of doing what ever you like. I learned I was free to do pretty much the same and ended up making many and different choices and accepting the possible consequences first rather than just "set fire to it and jump!!"
3 weeks ago a grand daughter, child of my eldest son alcoholic/addict attempted suicide and for now that failed. As I listened to her talk about what was swimming around in her head and emotions as she was committing the act I heard her talk about the alcoholic/addict times in her life with her father and mother. She is still alive and still the daughter/grand daughter of our disease which is fatal. She does not drink or use and neither does her husband.
We are a step and tradition recovery program and follow the same 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. The first step says "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol". Every successful recovering person I have ever met in either program started at that admission..."We are powerless". We need help and I am glad that is what brought you here to MIP. MIP is major help.
You can also look in your phone directory to see if there is an Al-Anon Central Office in your area that can put you together with other members who would be or are willing to step up and come to your face to face support. I have seen that work many times and have also participated with it for others in need.
Recovery takes courage and willingness amongst other skills. Keep coming back. In support. (((hugs)))
-- Edited by JerryF on Monday 30th of July 2018 04:53:40 PM
A nother said
Jul 31, 2018
Hi again. I'm not sure whether to write here or start a new thread. What is the etiquette?
Our ferry was cancelled yesterday so we had to wait for a much later crossing. My MIL, who had the big birthday was with us for the holiday, and decided that the last day was her chance to be absolutely vile towards me, Infront of the children. The name calling that went on (from her) all day had the girls in tears. As you know I had a completely sleepless night so wasn't thinking well. I'm ashamed to admit that the moment I got a minute away from mil I had a row with husband in front of the children about what the heck he's been saying to her to cause this. In hindsight I should have instead asked him to keep her away from me and the children. The longshot was that the children cried for most of the day.
Today is a new day, and I am reeling. How could I hurt the children so badly? I should have found a flight home for us and got us away from that situation. My mil has alcohol issues too and blames me for everything. I literally can't put a foot right. I had no idea she could be so vicious and non sensical. Apparently the main trigger for her anger was the fact that husband ordered a diet coke one evening instead of beer. As you know, I've not really been talking to him so thought nothing of it. She decided that I control him too much.
Ok, I recognize that this is the chaos in the disease, but how can I soothe my rage and soothe my children? Incidentally, up until now mil came over to our house for tea 3 times a week and is close to the children. They have never seen her like this (I mean, she was truly, unrelentingly vicious for the whole day until we dropped her home at 5am this morning).
I've ordered a new double bed so we can be separate until we can sell the house. Also ordered some books online re alcoholism and codependency. Husband doesn't want to split, but I can't see another way. He went out drinking with her the other night because she is so upset about him ordering the coke! He does not seem to have the spine to do anything for himself, so I can't believe that he will quit drinking, even if he says he will. He is only saying he will quit so that we don't split.
Freetime said
Jul 31, 2018
I'm so sorry you had to go through that experience. Getting some space for yourself and reading books is a great step ... that's what I did at first when I couldn't take my situation any more. A book I liked, in addition to Al-Anon literature, was "Marriage On The Rocks" by Janet Woititz.
It must be so hard to see the children upset. Can you let them know that their feelings are OK, that dad and grandmother behave that way because of an illness, and that it's not the children's fault?
To soothe feelings ... maybe treat yourself and children to a fun outing, or an activity you all enjoy. For myself, I found it healing to pack a "go bag" so I would be prepared to get away from the house for a night or two if I needed it. I actually bought a cute new overnight bag for this, to treat myself.
A nother said
Jul 31, 2018
Thanks Freetime. I think a go bag is a great idea. Will speak to the children. Can I ask another one? My 9 year old was looking at the calendar this morning and said, 'oh, are you going to a wedding on Friday?' I said that I'm not going, and when she asked why I said that daddy would be drinking and I don't want to be a part of that. My husband went mad at me. I don't want to lie to the children, and I don't want to cause more arguments and upset. I asked husband what he would rather I said and he didn't reply. What should I have said? I'm sorry I'm being a bit needy with all the questions, but I'm feeling quite lost and confused at the moment.
DavidG said
Jul 31, 2018
A nother wrote:
Hi again. I'm not sure whether to write here or start a new thread. What is the etiquette?
...This group and space- belongs to us! This is our space... we go with our gut.
I hear the voice of a mother and parent coming out here... through the chaos...
I grew up in a small up country town- in a country well and away from North America. But there are many similarities. I grew up in a drinking culture. It was expected. No dancing and singing and joy- just drinking. Ugh!
reading your shares this morning- I see you are on the right track... seeking solutions... a way through... I do admire your courage... ...
Freetime said
Jul 31, 2018
A nother wrote:
I said that I'm not going, and when she asked why I said that daddy would be drinking and I don't want to be a part of that. What should I have said?
It's great to ask these questions! We were all full of questions when we started.
My thought is, when expressing a boundary, to make it about ourselves and not someone else. That's all we can control anyway, ourselves. So a reason for not going to an event might be, "I thought about it, and decided I'll feel better if I stay at home that day" or "I need to take some time for myself, and I'll send my best wishes to the couple getting married." This is how I'm going to handle it when I'm invited to a big family event later this month. It's about me, not about them.
kakr444 said
Aug 1, 2018
Hi. As a lot of people have said I know exactly what you're going through. Happily for the moment my husband is in recovery and doing well, but when our children were little I was constantly covering up for him, thinking I was protecting the children as well. My now 30-year-old daughter has shared with me that if I had been upfront with her it would have been so much easier for her. By covering it up she felt that it was her fault when he would yell at her. I'm not sure if it would have actually helped or not but I thought I'd share her perspective. No matter what don't beat yourself up, you're doing the best you can.
Bo said
Aug 1, 2018
A nother wrote:
Thanks Freetime. I think a go bag is a great idea. Will speak to the children. Can I ask another one? My 9 year old was looking at the calendar this morning and said, 'oh, are you going to a wedding on Friday?' I said that I'm not going, and when she asked why I said that daddy would be drinking and I don't want to be a part of that. My husband went mad at me. I don't want to lie to the children, and I don't want to cause more arguments and upset. I asked husband what he would rather I said and he didn't reply. What should I have said? I'm sorry I'm being a bit needy with all the questions, but I'm feeling quite lost and confused at the moment.
So, what were your motives here? Aside from "telling the truth" and "not wanting to lie" about why you were not going? This is something that would be perfect to talk to a sponsor about. That said, I understand why he's mad at you. I get that it is the truth, but on the other hand, is that really taking the high road? We are talking about a 9yo here. I don't know that it is right approach to "tell the truth" as it is about the other parent. It would be different in my mind if she came home, found her father drunk, passed out, or heard him yelling and screaming, etc. Then it's different. It's explaining something she witnessed, right in front of her own eyes. She deserves some explanation as she could be scared, confused, etc. Here, she saw nothing. You told her you are not going -- and it's because you set a boundary -- but that's not a discussion you would have with a 9yo.
Perhaps you could have said, mommy decided not to go because she'd rather stay home with you, or mommy didn't feel up to going this time, or mommy hasn't been feeling well enough this week to go. The motive is not to lie, but to do the right thing and not do something at the expense of the other parent. Go to meetings, this is what you need a sponsor for. All the best.
JerryF said
Aug 1, 2018
It is great to ask questions I also found out especially from program as I would possibly get responses attached to recovery. I loved those responses and I learned a lot. One of the things I learned that became a practice for me is "Don't React", you know the back and forth participation with the alcoholic weighted by ego and all about winning. I never won one of those. The guidance of "Say what you mean...mean what you say...and don't say it mean" was also rocket science behavioral growth for me. If I stay level and composed while I am facing the invitation to get and go wild myself where is the chance of the issue getting worse. I won't and don't participate in a war I won't win and alcoholic wars are not winnable they last for ever.
My grand-daughter's recent attempt at ending her life was about ending the sickness caused by the disease in her life. God...thank you for whatever you did to interfere in that near terminal attempt. She spoke about reliving the sickness of living with an alcoholic/addict father and Adult child mother as a youngster growing and what it did to mental and spiritual conditions. I thought I had had enough of this when I was the therapist and then God does have other ideas right?
I am still fearful and ready to txt her to find out how she and her husband and the kids are doing. I am sure my son, her father, doesn't want me near her because of his own guilt, fear and shame. He is dry for the moment and not sober. He accompanied me to an AA meeting and never got rid of his self-righteous, smirk. I am powerless. (((((hugs)))))
-- Edited by JerryF on Wednesday 1st of August 2018 02:06:30 PM
A nother said
Aug 1, 2018
Hi, I'm so grateful for all of these responses. Bo, you are right, I said the wrong thing. My motive was to break the 'insidious family disease' which I had heard about. I am guilty of fibbing to the children a lot because of the drinking. Their daddy has spent many days 'helping a friend move house's, or 'feeling tired so decided to spend the night at granny's'. One of the podcasts said that the secrecy is part of the disease, and that is the bit I was focused on at the time. I understood as soon as he objected that I'd said completely the wrong thing. I suppose I just can't see how you live with it and not cover it up/ constantly find ways to lessen the impact of it. But in doing that, am I just enabling him?
A nother said
Aug 1, 2018
By the way, the closest meeting to me (from the website) is called a step meeting. Is that different to other meetings?
Iamhere said
Aug 1, 2018
A_nother - I don't answer for anyone else any longer. I learned in recovery that I could step out of the way, and have the child/friend/relative inquire directly of the person they were curious about. I only had to suggest this a few times - another boundary in recovery. Another person's life is not part of my story. When I separate myself from the disease and the diseased, it becomes easier to find healthy responses for questions that aren't ours to answer.
With my kids, when asked why this, that or the other, I would just say that Dad's not up for it. As they got older, I would say, if it's important to you, please share that with him. Even children need to understand that saying what we mean, meaning what we say and not saying it mean matters in all walks of life. As far as questions of why I wasn't going to events I knew might be triggers for me, I just said, I am not up for it this time. Simple answers and keeping my life as simple as possible really helped with my recovery journey.
I have lived with the disease active for more than 20 years. It ebbs and flows and I have learned in recovery that this too shall pass. When I wonder if I can possibly take any more insanity, things change. And when I think about how good things are, they change again. Life is certainly hard enough without this disease. Relationships are hard without this disease. Putting the disease with a family, relationships, life and reality is just very darn difficult. Had I not found Al-Anon, I have no doubt I would have divorced and left. We each have to do our own thing. For me, the divorce/running without looking at me was a pattern I'd noticed in my life. I had already left one marriage long ago, and had cut people out of my life in the past without taking a look at me and what it is about me that attracts unhealthy people.
When I got honest in recovery, and looked for my part, my patterns, my way of thinking/processing, I found areas that I could improve upon. Working on me and focusing on me has given me peace of mind/heart, unconditional acceptance and love for self and others. I believe today that I can handle any life event with grace and dignity as I have solid recovery and healthy support and a higher power that all carry me when I fall down.
Hope this helps...in early recovery, my sponsor explained to me that I needed to communicate using I statements. Any inference to you, he, she was a subtle way to blame others. I hadn't thought of it too much before, but it is true. Fights happen around here when I say, You.................. If instead I say, I am ................................ without you, he, she, they - I am more likely to be heard and less likely to start a debate/argument.
Keep coming back!
Iamhere said
Aug 1, 2018
A step meeting format just means they cover a step each week or each month instead of topic. Any meeting is better than no meeting at all. You will find support, phone numbers and others who really do understand what it's like to live with this disease!
DavidG said
Aug 1, 2018
Nother...
meetings vary a bit, from place to place- but we all try to practise the same underlying principles.
where I live- far away from the centre of activity- we always try to adapt, and to do the best thing, within our group.
Our groups do not work, without members, obviously. So we always welcome new members along. New members bring along ESH-
-Experience strength and hope... ... which we share, the best way we can.
In recent times I have begun to feel that this online group- is as good as any. There is a lot of combined wisdom here.
The tradition I have learned- with a new member like yourself- is to talk about Step One.
1. Admitted we were powerless over alcohol and that our lives had become unmanageable.
I think it is good to "Keep it Simple" and focus on this step for a start anyway.
For me- it is about taking care of myself... and also giving care to dependents- children especially- who need care and supervision.
From your sharing, so far, you are making a really good job of this!
At this point we can begin to draw on the strength and support of others in Alanon... I think it is better- to keep things really simple- and to practise our slogan "One Day At A Time."
Our life- going forward- may seem like an impossible task- but it we break it down- it does begin to get easier...
My sharing- serves to bring myself close to the experience strength and hope that I received... and, as such, it is freely given. ...
Thanks for the opportunity to share, Nother... ...
DavidG.
Bo said
Aug 1, 2018
Just look at yourself, your role, your contribution. And, you did that -- that's good. I am not proposing "fibbing" to the children, but I also don't know that telling the harsh truth reality is appropriate either. Take the high road. Personally, I wouldn't, nor did I ever suggest the children ask their mom, or their aunt, why she had to leave early, why she talks so loud, why she acts funny, and so on and so on. I answer for me. I would let the kids see what they see, and ask what they ask -- about the alcoholic. They will see the truth and they understand and know much more than we give them credit for.
While secrecy is part of the disease, sometimes on both people's parts, it doesn't mean that you can't take the high road and answer in a more appropriate way. First, as far as living with it -- that is up to you, and in time when you get healthy, you will be a great place so that you can make decisions...in the right frame of mind. Second, you don't have to cover it up. If "it" -- the drinking is going on, don't cover it up. But that's not what happened here. You are a beginner, and you haven't been to meetings, so there is a lot for you to learn. Third, lessening the impact, is, like everything else, case specific. There have been times where I felt it was necessary. When my wife go so drunk that she was throwing up non-stop, urinated and defecated on herself, on the floor, and was laying in vomit on the floor -- I didn't think it was the right time to tell the kids, who were scared, that she was drunk. It may have been a conversation for another time, when they got older, another day, whatever. Lastly, you will know enabling when you see it, feel it, and during or after you do it. In this case, not telling a 9yo, in that situation, in my opinion is not enabling. All the best.
2HP said
Aug 2, 2018
Welcome to Al-anon, my friend. I can recall what it was like when my children were babies and I was dealing with his drinking and drugging. I went to my first al-anon meeting in complete despair. I felt shamed when I heard I was supposed to focus on myself so I never went back. I couldn't make sense of that.
Twenty years later (my kids were in college) I returned and it helped when I heard them say to me, " tell us your FEELINGS... let's have it... vomit it up and out because you will not get better until you do!!! "
Ours is a step program. I learned that STEP ONE in the al-anon room is admitting I was powerless over the EFFECTS the drinking had on me. My life had become unmanageable because of how it affected me.
As I read through all your posts, I see you communicating very clearly. you share with perfect honesty. You said:
I'm struggling
I'm afraid
I'm worried
Humiliated
I am sick
I am sick .
I'd rather just hide
I haven't been able to sleep
I'm anxious and prickly
The children cried for most of the day
I am feeling lost and confused
Those are not the feelings of someone managing well, quite the opposite. THAT is how alcoholism affected me too.
One step at a time, you are right where you need to be, no longer willing to sweep your feelings under the rug (a "step up" from previous denial) and this is a perfect al-anon beginning. You have come out of isolation and shared the honest truth of how you are being affected.
In light of this honesty, to whom are you responsible? Is it more important to keep ignoring yourself and your suffering children to meet the expectations of others? I donned the "I'm fine" mask and continued sacrificing myself for many more years, I had become sick and neurotic when I went back to al-anon.
How I wish I had taken the kids out of the house more... they loved the park... they loved wagon rides... blowing bubbles... watching butterflies... nature is Higher Power's soothing medicine. When I learned to get quiet and still again with the help of al-anon, I began doing those things for myself... lots of quiet walks in nature. Only then could I make good sound decisions regarding the marriage.
You have no power to change his drinking, you have no power over others who enable your husband. But you DO HAVE THE POWER to take good care of yourself today. Your primary responsibility is you and your kids, no one else.
Keep it real simple. One step at a time. Take good care of yourself WHATEVER that looks like (((my friend)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 2nd of August 2018 09:54:20 AM
Bo said
Aug 2, 2018
A nother wrote:
By the way, the closest meeting to me (from the website) is called a step meeting. Is that different to other meetings?
Are there others? If so, go to them. Look for beginners' meetings, or simply regular/topic/discussion meetings. A step meeting is specific, and addresses only the steps. If that is your ONLY option, well, take it. But look for others even though they are not the closest.
Bo said
Aug 2, 2018
By the way, with the luxury of owning my own time and calendar, I was thinking about what you said about living with it, not cover it up, and lessening the impact. It's interesting because I see that very differently. Living with it -- if that's my choice -- is on me. Period. The program will say things like how important is it, but will also say things like you do not have to accept unacceptable behavior. How does a newcomer/beginner distinguish between the two? How does anyone? I've been in the rooms of alanon for close to a quarter of a century. All that means is that I've had plenty of time to learn, do the steps, do a 4th step, do Blueprint For Progress, do Paths To Recovery, and so them all more than once. However, even seasoned people, everyone probably, at one time or another might have trouble distinguishing between some two things -- right/wrong, not important/acceptable, and so on.
That said, living with it -- I've long said alanon will not tell you to get divorced or to stay married. Alanon will not tell you to stay or leave. Alanon will not tell you to forgive infidelity or not to. Some people expect that from alanon. They might be looking for the pink unicorn, yet, if they get what they are looking for out of alanon, then that's good for them. However, at the same time, alanon will not tell you how to accept unacceptable behavior. Alanon will not tell you how to tolerate the intolerable. Nor will it tell you how to bear the unbearable. And, some people not only expect that, but, I feel they actually use the program to accomplish that. And that's OK if that's what they want. For me, what I got out of alanon -- in addition to a curriculum for living my life -- is that it helped me get better. It helped me get healthy. It gave me an incredible amount of tools, resources, ways of thinking, perspectives, experience, and wisdom. However, it didn't do it for me. I didn't just wake up one morning and it happened. All of that was there in front of me -- but I had to do a lot of work. The slogans and tools, catch-phrases, etc. -- if you are not healthy, if you don't understand the methodology, the meaning, the mindset behind all of that; for me, I was just an unhealthy person repeating some slogans and catch-phrases. It was when I got better, got healthy -- that the tools, resources, slogans, etc., actually started to work and accelerated my healthiness and getting better. My goal, after I understood what alanon was really about...was for me to get better, to get healthy, and arrive at a place where I could make decisions, healthy decisions, decisions from a place of intellect, logic, being healthy...not making decisions from a place of fear, desperation, emotion, helplessness, hopelessness, and so on. I was able to rid myself of the co-dependence and make normal, healthy decisions -- and I felt good about them. Things may not have worked out the way I originally wanted or intended...but I was not only OK with that, I was empowered and had good feelings about it because I made the decision. That is all part of living with it. To each their own.
All of that, is lessening the impact. That's about living with it. If you want to live in the firing line, and in the fire, be prepared for it. It gets hot! LOL. Lessening the impact eventually becomes easy -- when you work the program -- detachment, not contributing, not enabling, not doing the dance. I was married for 5 years and the drinking had a zero impact on me. It was sad. I felt tremendous compassion for her. But everything she did, had zero impact on me. Life was wonderful. If that's OK for others, do the work and find that place. I had to take the kids and go places, leave the house, leave the room, not to go weddings, bar/bat mitzvahs, go alone, leave early, be questioned by friends, family members, neighbors, etc., what's wrong, why is she, what is she, what happened, etc. There was plenty of embarrassment -- not me, her! I held my head up high, with dignity, grace, self-respect, and one thing no one or no thing can ever take away from me...and that's class. I didn't cover it up. But I lessened the impact by doing the work in alanon and focusing on me. And I am proud that I did not do any of it to her detriment.
All the best
A nother said
Aug 2, 2018
You should be proud. Not doing anything to her detriment must have been so hard.
I've started reading codependency for dummies and truly identify with it. I think this is the first time in the 17 years I've been in this mess that I've seen my part in that. I can see that by objecting/watching him drinking might make him think, well, I'm in the doghouse anyway, so I might as well enjoy myself a bit more first.
I don't know whether this is the same for everyone here, but for me I've noticed that when husband has a nasty binge like that I wake up the next day low, and get lower and lower untill I can barely get out of bed with the tiredness of dealing with my feelings (the ones in my stomach). I've reached the dead tired point today. This is the part where I can forgive anything just to sort my stomach out. and get back to normal.
But this time I feel so disappointed in myself. I don't help myself. I've been so closed minded about this. All these years believing that he's doing it to hurt me. I've never thought that I hurt him too. Perhaps some of his behaviour is tinged with revenge. Maybe he's not a Jekyll and Hyde, maybe this is his way of objecting to my behaviour. He has all the power when he's drunk. I have it when he's hungover.
I don't want to spend my life in this cycle. I want peace. I don't want to stay with him. I want to sort myself out, be happier and healthier and more peaceful. Equally, I think that without me he would find peace.
DavidG said
Aug 2, 2018
A nother wrote:
I don't want to spend my life in this cycle. I want peace. I don't want to stay with him. I want to sort myself out, be happier and healthier and more peaceful. Equally, I think that without me he would find peace.
Great share, my friend... ...
When I joined alanon the formula was about ~detachment~. We practised loving caring detachment... the drinker saw the error of their ways- and all was hunky dory. ...
In reality, my dad got sober the day he died.
We used to say that 10% of women left their drinking partners; and 10% of men stayed with their drinking partners.
Ugh! In my relationship I gave it my best shot- multiplied many times over- and we are still together.
I did a lot of CODA work... and i helped me heaps... it was the way of the world too- as gender roles became equal. ...
I do not talk about it a lot in Alanon- but it helps me give others space- to grow and to explore- and this kicks back the same for me!
And also there is a place where we all can connect, share, relate, and grow emotionally...
...this give a lot more sense to our decisions- which, in the end, are our own...
... ...
A nother said
Aug 2, 2018
We've talked. He is tearful and said that he doesn't want to split up. Then he said he looks for the opportunity to drink, and does 'lose it' sometimes just to get back at me and kick against my control. He has spoken to his mother who thinks that over the last few years his binging has always been a reaction to me.
I didn't put those words in his mouth, but you will see from my last post that I have started to think the same thing.
I listened until I threw up. I hurt inside.
Freetime said
Aug 2, 2018
Please, please remember the 3 C's: I didn't cause the alcoholism, I can't control it, and I can't cure it. This is true no matter what someone else says. These words saved my sanity in moments of crisis.
Iamhere said
Aug 2, 2018
Agree with Freetime - neither of you are 'bad' - both have been affected by a disease called Alcoholism. It is considered a family disease for a reason and rarely is anyone left unaffected. I understand how you feel....the stomach and awareness that arrives. We also have the three A(s) in Al-Anon - Awareness, Acceptance, Action.
We do play a part in the 'dance' of the disease. In my own experience, when I began focusing on my recovery through Al-Anon, and just stopped engaging in the madness things began to change. It did get a bit worse before it got better as my 'people' did not want me to change. Most of us imperfect humans are afraid of change and we all respond or react to it differently. Working this program as best I could helped me establish boundaries and learn how to detach with love....it was indifference at first.
It's very hard to not react to a person who is following you around pushing your buttons (my 'people' all 3 did this). Yet, with each healthy response I practiced (no response is a healthy response), things slowly changed. Today, I can leave a room when their is tension, and my 'people' no longer follow me. They intuitively understand that I am anxious and don't want to discuss right now.
Al-Anon suggests we be gentle with self and others as best we can. Most of us have been trying to manage and control others for a long while. Most of us can't recall the last time we just relaxed or laughed. We suggest doing some small favor, just for you - bubble bath, walk around the block, etc. to remember that even in the throws of this disease, you/we matter. This disease sucked the life right out of me and I forgot that I matter, and am worthy of a joyful peaceful life.
(((Hugs))) - when we know better, we do better. One reason we practice one day at a time is so we can get healthy and make decisions based on facts and not raw emotions. Just do today as best you can and see what tomorrow brings...
Hi Nother... welcome...
stateside it is still Sunday- but here it is Monday morning- and the sun shining over a winter's day.
First up- best dressed. ~sigh~ this is not a spelling test- or test of grammar... really good share, my friend.
...
I am sure here you will get responses from members- all we kin offer is our ESH- experience strength and hope.
...
best wishes,
DavidG.
My suggestion is to think about which choice is better for your mental health. Maybe make a list of pro's and con's. Will the downsides (other people complaining or whatever they choose to think of you) outweigh the upsides (freeing yourself and children from a distressing situation)?
.
Yes... this came up here two or three months ago. When someone joined up here- in the middle of a situation...
...there is a lot of strength in this group- and people get a range of responses- which I think is healthy...
For al of us- it does end up being our call- in the end.
I came from a world- where there were no adult to adult conversations- just endless conflict.
...
...
so it is a real relief to have mature conversations. No rights and wrongs.
I am an old timer- 37 years coming up. Being in Alanon took time for me- coming through it- as a kid. But I have never regretted it.
I like it here- this group- with members from all around the world... unity in diversity.
...
would love to hear how things go for you- here, we can join the group at any time.
Take care, Nother... it is really tough and raw- right at the start.
I have sat in the rooms and let it all go, There are no strangers here. We need this support.
In the end it does make all the difference!
...
What we learn in recovery is to put self first. This doesn't mean we wall off from all others, and become self-seeking people - we just pause and consider our own needs first and then offer service/support to others. I do believe that there is no shame in not going to these weddings if you don't want to and we also learn in recovery to not JADE - Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain. Simply stated, you can just say you do not wish to attend. Doesn't have to include the drinking or blaming another or the anxiety you feel - we talk all the time about, Say what we mean, mean what we say and don't say it mean.
Alcoholism affects us indirectly - our thinking becomes distorted and we do things that we don't want to in an effort to 'keep peace'. What we find is that an alcoholic is going to drink, that's what the disease tells them to do. We have choices though - and one is to remove ourselves from any situation that makes us feel uncomfortable. I often asked myself early in recovery, what would a sane person or normal person do in this circumstance.
There are meetings here twice daily. Look to the top left for the times and the link to the meeting/chat room. Literature for Al-Anon is available on the Al-Anon site as well as many libraries, book stores and even ebay. We use meetings, literature, steps, and more to focus on ourselves and find our peace/joy in spite of the disease and the diseased.
Keep coming back - you aren't alone and there is hope and help in recovery!
The backlash was NOT even close to being as bad as going! In addition, the backlash ended up being zero -- because by then, I learned. I got better, I got healthy, and I w. as working the program...so the backlash was nothing. It didn't impact me at all, because I had already learned my tools and had implemented them, and boundaries. I learned acceptance, and immersed myself in it. I mastered acceptance. I was able to stop arguing, fighting, trying to fix, trying to prove my point, trying to beg, be heard, and so on and so on and so on. As such, I was able to "let go" of so many things. I got better -- and I was no longer impacted by the drama, chaos, turmoil, havoc, and the impact of my wife and her drinking.
Go to meetings, as many as you can, as often as you can. Find a sponsor and start working with him/her. It works if you work it, so work it, you're worth it.
We drive home from our holiday tomorrow. I hope he is sober enough to drive, because I haven't been able to sleep at all.
I suppose the thought of divorce is too big for me now. I've decided to break it down into small manageable chunks, starting with telling my mil and husband that I won't go to the weddings and then preparing the house for sale. There are lots of snagging jobs to focus on. In the meantime, I will try to do the meeting s on this forum.
I feel as though the podcasts have given me a corner of a comfort blanket, and I want to grab it and wrap myself in it.
I also need to let go of the hurt of these broken promises (he promised not to drink for the rest of the holiday), and resentment that he will move on with his life after me and probably be fine. I have suspended my career for the children, so he earns way more than I can. I will be broke for a long time!!
In my experience alcoholics aren't really having fun. They generally are miserable, because in there somewhere they know that they are trapped. The merry-go-round has to go on to keep them from feeling that feeling.
I hope you can make it to a meeting soon, and the podcasts are a great idea in the meantime!
kenny
Just keep doing all that you can for you one day at a time. Safe travels home!
In my experience, second chances (and third, etc.) are coming. They pop up a lot. I just couldn't see them when I was mired in someone else's behavior.
When I got my head cleared, I took small steps and the fog cleared.
You'll be fine. Keep coming back. We do this together.
Aloha Nother and welcome to the board...I am also a Nother as far as this disease goes and was born and raised in it. With my participation in the disease it almost took my life along with all of the others I am aware of that either did or also come close to loosing theirs. Alcohol ism is a fatal disease if not fully arrested by total abstinence.
You're looking for new solutions and alternative behaviors so that you can find peace of mind and serenity and are willing to take little steps rather than the end step of "getting rid of the bum". Actually you are mostly free of doing what ever you like. I learned I was free to do pretty much the same and ended up making many and different choices and accepting the possible consequences first rather than just "set fire to it and jump!!"
3 weeks ago a grand daughter, child of my eldest son alcoholic/addict attempted suicide and for now that failed. As I listened to her talk about what was swimming around in her head and emotions as she was committing the act I heard her talk about the alcoholic/addict times in her life with her father and mother. She is still alive and still the daughter/grand daughter of our disease which is fatal. She does not drink or use and neither does her husband.
We are a step and tradition recovery program and follow the same 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. The first step says "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol". Every successful recovering person I have ever met in either program started at that admission..."We are powerless". We need help and I am glad that is what brought you here to MIP. MIP is major help.
You can also look in your phone directory to see if there is an Al-Anon Central Office in your area that can put you together with other members who would be or are willing to step up and come to your face to face support. I have seen that work many times and have also participated with it for others in need.
Recovery takes courage and willingness amongst other skills. Keep coming back. In support. (((hugs)))
-- Edited by JerryF on Monday 30th of July 2018 04:53:40 PM
Our ferry was cancelled yesterday so we had to wait for a much later crossing. My MIL, who had the big birthday was with us for the holiday, and decided that the last day was her chance to be absolutely vile towards me, Infront of the children. The name calling that went on (from her) all day had the girls in tears. As you know I had a completely sleepless night so wasn't thinking well. I'm ashamed to admit that the moment I got a minute away from mil I had a row with husband in front of the children about what the heck he's been saying to her to cause this. In hindsight I should have instead asked him to keep her away from me and the children. The longshot was that the children cried for most of the day.
Today is a new day, and I am reeling. How could I hurt the children so badly? I should have found a flight home for us and got us away from that situation. My mil has alcohol issues too and blames me for everything. I literally can't put a foot right. I had no idea she could be so vicious and non sensical. Apparently the main trigger for her anger was the fact that husband ordered a diet coke one evening instead of beer. As you know, I've not really been talking to him so thought nothing of it. She decided that I control him too much.
Ok, I recognize that this is the chaos in the disease, but how can I soothe my rage and soothe my children? Incidentally, up until now mil came over to our house for tea 3 times a week and is close to the children. They have never seen her like this (I mean, she was truly, unrelentingly vicious for the whole day until we dropped her home at 5am this morning).
I've ordered a new double bed so we can be separate until we can sell the house. Also ordered some books online re alcoholism and codependency. Husband doesn't want to split, but I can't see another way. He went out drinking with her the other night because she is so upset about him ordering the coke! He does not seem to have the spine to do anything for himself, so I can't believe that he will quit drinking, even if he says he will. He is only saying he will quit so that we don't split.
It must be so hard to see the children upset. Can you let them know that their feelings are OK, that dad and grandmother behave that way because of an illness, and that it's not the children's fault?
To soothe feelings ... maybe treat yourself and children to a fun outing, or an activity you all enjoy. For myself, I found it healing to pack a "go bag" so I would be prepared to get away from the house for a night or two if I needed it. I actually bought a cute new overnight bag for this, to treat myself.
I hear the voice of a mother and parent coming out here... through the chaos...
I grew up in a small up country town- in a country well and away from North America. But there are many similarities. I grew up in a drinking culture. It was expected. No dancing and singing and joy- just drinking. Ugh!
reading your shares this morning- I see you are on the right track... seeking solutions... a way through... I do admire your courage...
...
It's great to ask these questions! We were all full of questions when we started.
My thought is, when expressing a boundary, to make it about ourselves and not someone else. That's all we can control anyway, ourselves. So a reason for not going to an event might be, "I thought about it, and decided I'll feel better if I stay at home that day" or "I need to take some time for myself, and I'll send my best wishes to the couple getting married." This is how I'm going to handle it when I'm invited to a big family event later this month. It's about me, not about them.
Hi. As a lot of people have said I know exactly what you're going through. Happily for the moment my husband is in recovery and doing well, but when our children were little I was constantly covering up for him, thinking I was protecting the children as well. My now 30-year-old daughter has shared with me that if I had been upfront with her it would have been so much easier for her. By covering it up she felt that it was her fault when he would yell at her. I'm not sure if it would have actually helped or not but I thought I'd share her perspective. No matter what don't beat yourself up, you're doing the best you can.
So, what were your motives here? Aside from "telling the truth" and "not wanting to lie" about why you were not going? This is something that would be perfect to talk to a sponsor about. That said, I understand why he's mad at you. I get that it is the truth, but on the other hand, is that really taking the high road? We are talking about a 9yo here. I don't know that it is right approach to "tell the truth" as it is about the other parent. It would be different in my mind if she came home, found her father drunk, passed out, or heard him yelling and screaming, etc. Then it's different. It's explaining something she witnessed, right in front of her own eyes. She deserves some explanation as she could be scared, confused, etc. Here, she saw nothing. You told her you are not going -- and it's because you set a boundary -- but that's not a discussion you would have with a 9yo.
Perhaps you could have said, mommy decided not to go because she'd rather stay home with you, or mommy didn't feel up to going this time, or mommy hasn't been feeling well enough this week to go. The motive is not to lie, but to do the right thing and not do something at the expense of the other parent. Go to meetings, this is what you need a sponsor for. All the best.
It is great to ask questions I also found out especially from program as I would possibly get responses attached to recovery. I loved those responses and I learned a lot. One of the things I learned that became a practice for me is "Don't React", you know the back and forth participation with the alcoholic weighted by ego and all about winning. I never won one of those. The guidance of "Say what you mean...mean what you say...and don't say it mean" was also rocket science behavioral growth for me. If I stay level and composed while I am facing the invitation to get and go wild myself where is the chance of the issue getting worse. I won't and don't participate in a war I won't win and alcoholic wars are not winnable they last for ever.
My grand-daughter's recent attempt at ending her life was about ending the sickness caused by the disease in her life. God...thank you for whatever you did to interfere in that near terminal attempt. She spoke about reliving the sickness of living with an alcoholic/addict father and Adult child mother as a youngster growing and what it did to mental and spiritual conditions. I thought I had had enough of this when I was the therapist and then God does have other ideas right?
I am still fearful and ready to txt her to find out how she and her husband and the kids are doing. I am sure my son, her father, doesn't want me near her because of his own guilt, fear and shame. He is dry for the moment and not sober. He accompanied me to an AA meeting and never got rid of his self-righteous, smirk. I am powerless. (((((hugs)))))
-- Edited by JerryF on Wednesday 1st of August 2018 02:06:30 PM
With my kids, when asked why this, that or the other, I would just say that Dad's not up for it. As they got older, I would say, if it's important to you, please share that with him. Even children need to understand that saying what we mean, meaning what we say and not saying it mean matters in all walks of life. As far as questions of why I wasn't going to events I knew might be triggers for me, I just said, I am not up for it this time. Simple answers and keeping my life as simple as possible really helped with my recovery journey.
I have lived with the disease active for more than 20 years. It ebbs and flows and I have learned in recovery that this too shall pass. When I wonder if I can possibly take any more insanity, things change. And when I think about how good things are, they change again. Life is certainly hard enough without this disease. Relationships are hard without this disease. Putting the disease with a family, relationships, life and reality is just very darn difficult. Had I not found Al-Anon, I have no doubt I would have divorced and left. We each have to do our own thing. For me, the divorce/running without looking at me was a pattern I'd noticed in my life. I had already left one marriage long ago, and had cut people out of my life in the past without taking a look at me and what it is about me that attracts unhealthy people.
When I got honest in recovery, and looked for my part, my patterns, my way of thinking/processing, I found areas that I could improve upon. Working on me and focusing on me has given me peace of mind/heart, unconditional acceptance and love for self and others. I believe today that I can handle any life event with grace and dignity as I have solid recovery and healthy support and a higher power that all carry me when I fall down.
Hope this helps...in early recovery, my sponsor explained to me that I needed to communicate using I statements. Any inference to you, he, she was a subtle way to blame others. I hadn't thought of it too much before, but it is true. Fights happen around here when I say, You.................. If instead I say, I am ................................ without you, he, she, they - I am more likely to be heard and less likely to start a debate/argument.
Keep coming back!
Nother...
meetings vary a bit, from place to place- but we all try to practise the same underlying principles.
where I live- far away from the centre of activity- we always try to adapt, and to do the best thing, within our group.
Our groups do not work, without members, obviously. So we always welcome new members along. New members bring along ESH-
-Experience strength and hope... ... which we share, the best way we can.
In recent times I have begun to feel that this online group- is as good as any. There is a lot of combined wisdom here.
The tradition I have learned- with a new member like yourself- is to talk about Step One.
1. Admitted we were powerless over alcohol and that our lives had become unmanageable.
I think it is good to "Keep it Simple" and focus on this step for a start anyway.
For me- it is about taking care of myself... and also giving care to dependents- children especially- who need care and supervision.
From your sharing, so far, you are making a really good job of this!
At this point we can begin to draw on the strength and support of others in Alanon... I think it is better- to keep things really simple- and to practise our slogan "One Day At A Time."
Our life- going forward- may seem like an impossible task- but it we break it down- it does begin to get easier...
My sharing- serves to bring myself close to the experience strength and hope that I received... and, as such, it is freely given.
...
Thanks for the opportunity to share, Nother...
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DavidG.
While secrecy is part of the disease, sometimes on both people's parts, it doesn't mean that you can't take the high road and answer in a more appropriate way. First, as far as living with it -- that is up to you, and in time when you get healthy, you will be a great place so that you can make decisions...in the right frame of mind. Second, you don't have to cover it up. If "it" -- the drinking is going on, don't cover it up. But that's not what happened here. You are a beginner, and you haven't been to meetings, so there is a lot for you to learn. Third, lessening the impact, is, like everything else, case specific. There have been times where I felt it was necessary. When my wife go so drunk that she was throwing up non-stop, urinated and defecated on herself, on the floor, and was laying in vomit on the floor -- I didn't think it was the right time to tell the kids, who were scared, that she was drunk. It may have been a conversation for another time, when they got older, another day, whatever. Lastly, you will know enabling when you see it, feel it, and during or after you do it. In this case, not telling a 9yo, in that situation, in my opinion is not enabling. All the best.
Welcome to Al-anon, my friend. I can recall what it was like when my children were babies and I was dealing with his drinking and drugging. I went to my first al-anon meeting in complete despair. I felt shamed when I heard I was supposed to focus on myself so I never went back. I couldn't make sense of that.
Twenty years later (my kids were in college) I returned and it helped when I heard them say to me, " tell us your FEELINGS... let's have it... vomit it up and out because you will not get better until you do!!! "
Ours is a step program. I learned that STEP ONE in the al-anon room is admitting I was powerless over the EFFECTS the drinking had on me. My life had become unmanageable because of how it affected me.
As I read through all your posts, I see you communicating very clearly. you share with perfect honesty. You said:
I'm struggling
I'm afraid
I'm worried
Humiliated
I am sick
I am sick .
I'd rather just hide
I haven't been able to sleep
I'm anxious and prickly
The children cried for most of the day
I am feeling lost and confused
Those are not the feelings of someone managing well, quite the opposite. THAT is how alcoholism affected me too.
One step at a time, you are right where you need to be, no longer willing to sweep your feelings under the rug (a "step up" from previous denial) and this is a perfect al-anon beginning. You have come out of isolation and shared the honest truth of how you are being affected.
In light of this honesty, to whom are you responsible? Is it more important to keep ignoring yourself and your suffering children to meet the expectations of others? I donned the "I'm fine" mask and continued sacrificing myself for many more years, I had become sick and neurotic when I went back to al-anon.
How I wish I had taken the kids out of the house more... they loved the park... they loved wagon rides... blowing bubbles... watching butterflies... nature is Higher Power's soothing medicine. When I learned to get quiet and still again with the help of al-anon, I began doing those things for myself... lots of quiet walks in nature. Only then could I make good sound decisions regarding the marriage.
You have no power to change his drinking, you have no power over others who enable your husband. But you DO HAVE THE POWER to take good care of yourself today. Your primary responsibility is you and your kids, no one else.
Keep it real simple. One step at a time. Take good care of yourself WHATEVER that looks like (((my friend)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 2nd of August 2018 09:54:20 AM
Are there others? If so, go to them. Look for beginners' meetings, or simply regular/topic/discussion meetings. A step meeting is specific, and addresses only the steps. If that is your ONLY option, well, take it. But look for others even though they are not the closest.
By the way, with the luxury of owning my own time and calendar, I was thinking about what you said about living with it, not cover it up, and lessening the impact. It's interesting because I see that very differently. Living with it -- if that's my choice -- is on me. Period. The program will say things like how important is it, but will also say things like you do not have to accept unacceptable behavior. How does a newcomer/beginner distinguish between the two? How does anyone? I've been in the rooms of alanon for close to a quarter of a century. All that means is that I've had plenty of time to learn, do the steps, do a 4th step, do Blueprint For Progress, do Paths To Recovery, and so them all more than once. However, even seasoned people, everyone probably, at one time or another might have trouble distinguishing between some two things -- right/wrong, not important/acceptable, and so on.
That said, living with it -- I've long said alanon will not tell you to get divorced or to stay married. Alanon will not tell you to stay or leave. Alanon will not tell you to forgive infidelity or not to. Some people expect that from alanon. They might be looking for the pink unicorn, yet, if they get what they are looking for out of alanon, then that's good for them. However, at the same time, alanon will not tell you how to accept unacceptable behavior. Alanon will not tell you how to tolerate the intolerable. Nor will it tell you how to bear the unbearable. And, some people not only expect that, but, I feel they actually use the program to accomplish that. And that's OK if that's what they want. For me, what I got out of alanon -- in addition to a curriculum for living my life -- is that it helped me get better. It helped me get healthy. It gave me an incredible amount of tools, resources, ways of thinking, perspectives, experience, and wisdom. However, it didn't do it for me. I didn't just wake up one morning and it happened. All of that was there in front of me -- but I had to do a lot of work. The slogans and tools, catch-phrases, etc. -- if you are not healthy, if you don't understand the methodology, the meaning, the mindset behind all of that; for me, I was just an unhealthy person repeating some slogans and catch-phrases. It was when I got better, got healthy -- that the tools, resources, slogans, etc., actually started to work and accelerated my healthiness and getting better. My goal, after I understood what alanon was really about...was for me to get better, to get healthy, and arrive at a place where I could make decisions, healthy decisions, decisions from a place of intellect, logic, being healthy...not making decisions from a place of fear, desperation, emotion, helplessness, hopelessness, and so on. I was able to rid myself of the co-dependence and make normal, healthy decisions -- and I felt good about them. Things may not have worked out the way I originally wanted or intended...but I was not only OK with that, I was empowered and had good feelings about it because I made the decision. That is all part of living with it. To each their own.
All of that, is lessening the impact. That's about living with it. If you want to live in the firing line, and in the fire, be prepared for it. It gets hot! LOL. Lessening the impact eventually becomes easy -- when you work the program -- detachment, not contributing, not enabling, not doing the dance. I was married for 5 years and the drinking had a zero impact on me. It was sad. I felt tremendous compassion for her. But everything she did, had zero impact on me. Life was wonderful. If that's OK for others, do the work and find that place. I had to take the kids and go places, leave the house, leave the room, not to go weddings, bar/bat mitzvahs, go alone, leave early, be questioned by friends, family members, neighbors, etc., what's wrong, why is she, what is she, what happened, etc. There was plenty of embarrassment -- not me, her! I held my head up high, with dignity, grace, self-respect, and one thing no one or no thing can ever take away from me...and that's class. I didn't cover it up. But I lessened the impact by doing the work in alanon and focusing on me. And I am proud that I did not do any of it to her detriment.
All the best
I've started reading codependency for dummies and truly identify with it. I think this is the first time in the 17 years I've been in this mess that I've seen my part in that. I can see that by objecting/watching him drinking might make him think, well, I'm in the doghouse anyway, so I might as well enjoy myself a bit more first.
I don't know whether this is the same for everyone here, but for me I've noticed that when husband has a nasty binge like that I wake up the next day low, and get lower and lower untill I can barely get out of bed with the tiredness of dealing with my feelings (the ones in my stomach). I've reached the dead tired point today. This is the part where I can forgive anything just to sort my stomach out. and get back to normal.
But this time I feel so disappointed in myself. I don't help myself. I've been so closed minded about this. All these years believing that he's doing it to hurt me. I've never thought that I hurt him too. Perhaps some of his behaviour is tinged with revenge. Maybe he's not a Jekyll and Hyde, maybe this is his way of objecting to my behaviour. He has all the power when he's drunk. I have it when he's hungover.
I don't want to spend my life in this cycle. I want peace. I don't want to stay with him. I want to sort myself out, be happier and healthier and more peaceful. Equally, I think that without me he would find peace.
Great share, my friend...
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When I joined alanon the formula was about ~detachment~. We practised loving caring detachment... the drinker saw the error of their ways- and all was hunky dory.
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In reality, my dad got sober the day he died.
We used to say that 10% of women left their drinking partners; and 10% of men stayed with their drinking partners.
Ugh! In my relationship I gave it my best shot- multiplied many times over- and we are still together.
I did a lot of CODA work... and i helped me heaps... it was the way of the world too- as gender roles became equal.
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I do not talk about it a lot in Alanon- but it helps me give others space- to grow and to explore- and this kicks back the same for me!
And also there is a place where we all can connect, share, relate, and grow emotionally...
...this give a lot more sense to our decisions- which, in the end, are our own...
I didn't put those words in his mouth, but you will see from my last post that I have started to think the same thing.
I listened until I threw up. I hurt inside.
We do play a part in the 'dance' of the disease. In my own experience, when I began focusing on my recovery through Al-Anon, and just stopped engaging in the madness things began to change. It did get a bit worse before it got better as my 'people' did not want me to change. Most of us imperfect humans are afraid of change and we all respond or react to it differently. Working this program as best I could helped me establish boundaries and learn how to detach with love....it was indifference at first.
It's very hard to not react to a person who is following you around pushing your buttons (my 'people' all 3 did this). Yet, with each healthy response I practiced (no response is a healthy response), things slowly changed. Today, I can leave a room when their is tension, and my 'people' no longer follow me. They intuitively understand that I am anxious and don't want to discuss right now.
Al-Anon suggests we be gentle with self and others as best we can. Most of us have been trying to manage and control others for a long while. Most of us can't recall the last time we just relaxed or laughed. We suggest doing some small favor, just for you - bubble bath, walk around the block, etc. to remember that even in the throws of this disease, you/we matter. This disease sucked the life right out of me and I forgot that I matter, and am worthy of a joyful peaceful life.
(((Hugs))) - when we know better, we do better. One reason we practice one day at a time is so we can get healthy and make decisions based on facts and not raw emotions. Just do today as best you can and see what tomorrow brings...