Hi Iwantthemiddle,

I just wanted to take a moment to welcome you. There isn't much I can add to betty's response except to say that Alanon is a program of self-discovery. You may have come seeking information about whether those in your life are alcoholic but when we keep coming to Alanon we learn more and more about how it all feels for us. The Alanon steps and principles of Alanon help me with all kinds of life situations. In my humble opinion, it really doesn't matter whether someone in my life identifies as an alcoholic or not. What matters is how I feel around that person. Alanon helps me to do something about me so I can keep working towards making my life a good one. I hope you'll keep joining us here for recovery as we get to know ourselves one day at a time. I'm sorry you are going through what you are going through right now. There's lot of support and even online Alanon meetings here. ((hugs)) TT

Aloha Middle and welcome to the board and family...stick around, keep coming back and find out why much of what you have told us centers around some one elses drinking. Betty is right on and I remember coming to the realization that I was affected and it drove me crazy so I needed to be with people who also were affected and that was the Al-Anon Family Groups even when I wished it woulda, coulda, shoulda been something else.

Stick around and listen and see if it helps answering your concern.   (((hugs))) 

The way I heard alcoholics defined is as people who keep on drinking even when it has bad consequences.  (One of those bad consequences is worrying family members.)  My A (alcoholic) didn't drink round the clock or every day - he was a binge drinker who could go months, even a year, between binges.  But when he did binge, oh boy, trouble.  Sadly he died of cirrhosis earlier this year.  For many years he maintained that he couldn't be an alcoholic because 'he didn't drink all the time' and 'he could stop any time he wanted to.'  (He took the months between binges as evidence of being in control - but he wasn't really in control.)  So you see that his arguments didn't stop the horrible consequences descending on him.  However, if they're an alcoholic, they'll be in denial.  A regular person, if you suggested their drinking was excessive, would say to themselves, 'Is that really true?  Do I need to watch my drinking?  I guess there was that one time ... huh, I hadn't even thought about that.  I think she's right, I'd better watch myself and get help if I need to.'  But an alcoholic will argue till the cows come home about how he's not a "real" alcoholic. 

But it doesn't really matter whether he admits it or not.  What matters is that you're getting support for having to deal with this.  Hope you'll keep coming back.

 Your mate, here, from East of Tassie...  ...

My dad was a small-town drunk. For them an alcoholic was someone who drank alone. So they all binged together!

Calling someone an alcoholic was a deep insult- a skid row drunk.

My dad was first of all a father, husband, son, cousin, etc etc. I had trouble spitting those words out- at first. I was the oldest in the family and bore the brunt of his crazy nature. Anger- rage... more like a spoiled kid.

My mum drank along with him. They split up and mum went on the wild side for a while. They met and married a lovely farmer who shared her love of horses.

The second half of her life was fruitful, thankfully...

We share our yarns- in the rooms- and this is as good a place as any- no walls or doors, here. 36 years in Alanon, me. Bin there, done that. 

Nice to see you sharing here- it does take the edge off of the anxiety- to know we are not alone... yes...  ...

Iwantthemiddle wrote:

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Hi everyone, so I finally had the chance to attend a f2f Al-Anon meeting last night but it was cancelled :( so I attended the AA meeting instead as I was invited to stay. So I find it hard calling my Dad, Mum and husband alcoholics. When I listened to the alcoholics last night they drank day in day out all day all night. My parents didnât and neither does my husband. BUT...... my Dad drank, and I guess binged, then became out of control. He would wet the bed, he would become unmanageable. He would force himself on to my mum. After he died my mum started drinking. She might drink one or two bottles of wine, but only maybe once a week or once a fortnight or once a month. Depended on if there was a party. But she would always have the drunken story that you heard over and over again, and also on accession became abusive physically and verbally. Then thereâs my husband. We have had so many arguments. When we are at family functions he drinks. Continuously. He gets that dumb stupid vacant look that I canât stand and then he starts arguments. Heâs not physically violent just verbally aggressive. He too has peed on the bed, vomited all over the house. He hates having the conversation before an occasion of whoâs driving. If I drink I will have one or two but then I donât want to drive. He sees it as a waste because he canât drive because Iâve onky had a couple. Itâs a constant battle. We canât really afford for him to be drinking either. We struggle to buy a case of beer, and Iâd hate to think if we did have a constant supply in the fridge would he just guzzle it. Heâs even got sneaky and if we canât afford it he will ask his clients to repay him with beer. As heâs not able to accept cash but beer is fine! So he now thinks heâs off the hook because Iâm the one with the problem because Iâm the one attending the Al-Anon meetings and thereâs absolutely nothing wrong with him!! Would love some feedback. Am I overreacting? Is he an alcoholic or not? His Dad is the same. Overdrinks at parties and makes a complete fool of himself. Advice, help, comments appreciated. Thank you to all of you for being here. X

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Welcome...you asked a pointed question, and I get that. Asking questions is natural, very common, and perhaps never-ending exercise. I think it's a good thing, a very good thing. That said, in my experience, and after being inside the rooms of alanon for a long time -- I can certainly understand the fear, discomfort, and the hesitancy in using the term "alcoholic" and classifying a loved on as such. Are they, aren't they, but they do, but they are, and they do, say, and so on and so on. People start to talk about binge drinkers, he/she doesn't drink every day/night, only the weekends, only beer, they are highly functional, and again, and so on and so on. Alanon doesn't have any of those benchmarks, standards, etc. It is very simple in alanon...if someone's drinking bothers you...then you are in the right place!!! You qualify to be in alanon. Now, while I am not a member of AA, I believe that in AA, it is the person themselves who can and should identify themselves as an alcoholic. Your generic definition, based upon hearings, observations, etc., from AA or alanon meetings, is not the standard. It's not about frequency, quantity, impact on work, functionality, or anything else. Here, in this forum, we simply look at -- does someone's drinking bother you? Does it impact you? 

That being said, what I've also experienced is that the newcomer/beginner in alanon can easily get caught up in is he/she or isn't he/she, and that becomes part of the back and forth, part of the dance, etc., that we engage in with the alcoholic. However, even aside from that, in alanon we focus on US, not the alcoholic. We don't focus on them, analyze them, try to figure out what they are doing, why they are doing it, why they are drinking, and so on. Our program is NOT about them. It's about US. 

So, in closing -- you asked a pointed question. Not to deflect or trivialize, however, what's the difference? Whether they are or are not -- you have enough questions, you are impacted a great deal, you are facing enough stress, angst, difficulties, etc., that you should be in alanon. Be that as it may -- your question, about your mom, dad, and husband -- all three are alcoholics. It is not your job to prove it. All the best.

Iwantthemiddle wrote:

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Hi Bo, thanks for your response, yes Iâm slowly understanding the whole Al-Anon process. I think Iâm going to be stuck on step one for quite some time. I guess the only evidence I need is that Iâm the one that canât stand the drinking. So yes Iâm in the right place and thatâs ok. I will keep coming back.

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That's a good thing -- Step One is about ACCEPTANCE, and for many people, that can be "the first domino to fall" so to speak. Once that first domino falls, you know what happens. Acceptance is Step One for a reason! LOL. As far as you being the only one -- so what. It doesn't matter. This is about you. I couldn't care less if I was the only one who was bothered by my wife's drinking. As a matter of fact -- I was!!! But, I was the only one who lived with her. I was the only one who knew, who had to lived with everything they didn't see. But it didn't matter. 

Go to your face to face meetings, as many and as often as you can. Start working the program. It works if you work it, so work it, you are worth it.

I have also learned that it is a progressive disease.

My alcoholic husband used to drink a cocktail or two a night in our early years. He only went overboard when we were in a social setting. I had fears then, as my mother is an alcoholic. Addiction of all kinds are in my family history.

The disease progressed over the years to periodic bouts of him drinking until he passed out or became belligerent.

He had a few unrelated illnesses/surgeries and then he would drink instead of taking his pain meds (or even doing both). Over the years it progressed to day drinking, job loss, health issues. Etc.

I was not truly educated on the disease, nor co-dependency, and kept trying to control it and him, bargain, threaten....forgive and then just stuff it away because I kept thinking that something would change. That he would realize how deeply hurt, sad, scared, angry and ready to leave I was, and I thought he would choose me.

20 years later, I am still here, but he may not be for much longer. He Is in relapse, and has a lot of medical issues (several alcohol related) and his body cant take much more..

in retrospect, if I had spent all that energy on me, and overcame my denial, co-dependency, absolute obsession with trying to fix him, my life would be very different.

i know its hard, because these are people we love. But we need to love and care for ourselves too, and Al-anon is a great first step.

My heart is with you.