I am new to this forum but not new to Alanon. I have lived with my spouse of almost 30 years. He has been secretive and verbally abusive. I know how the disease works on family and the dysfunction that comes with it. He has had an affair with a young mistress and he cannot seem to let go of her..another story. I grew up with alcoholism and tried to have a 'normal' relationship with non drinking men before I got married a second time. None of those relationships worked out..anyway, I am trying to save this marriage. I know he is ill and it is not my fault. I need to get back to self caring and take care of me. Any one else here having a similar situation?
hotrod said
Jul 21, 2018
Welcome Marie you are not alone I remained in a 23 year marriage by using alanon tools one day at a time. He passed from cancer and I sure was happy that we were able to negotiate the difficult road that alcoholism handed us. Glad that you are attending alanon meetings. There is hope and help.
JerryF said
Jul 21, 2018
Aloha Marie and thank you for finding us with your experiences. So often I think I am the only victim and then I am humbly reminded I am not and this too will pass.
Our programs of recover gave me so many alternative behaviors to follow and practice instead of what I thought I could and should do and what I thought I knew best to do only to find out that not only did I not know and that I didn't know I didn't know. My sponsorship taught me to practice, practice, practice what I was being given and to take the focus off of the behaviors of my alcoholic/addict wife and others and place it on myself and what I needed to do with and for myself...one being coming here on a daily basis and listening to the fellowship...like yourself and getting reminded about how this works.
30 years is a long time to cultivate habits and slogans like, Let go and Let God, When in doubt DON'T, Turn it over and all the others interfere with me "doing the same things over and over again...expecting different results".
My family and I are carriers of this disease...know it or like it no not...we are powerless with the exception of that Higher Power we use to stand and walk with us and relieve us doing stuff we have no idea about will work. It might not be that you will be instrumental in saving your marriage. How has that worked out for you up till now? I wanted to me the hero man in my marriage with my alcoholic addict and still couldn't cure the std's she brought home.
Did my Higher Power want to save my marriage? I found out my Higher Power didn't even want me in it...It was my choice while my Higher Power was telling me "you don't NEED to be married, you need to be sober and sane and serene. I married my program and know what peace of mind and serenity means and what my responsibilities with/in it are.
I could not save my previous marriages...alone. Keep coming back bringing your recovery. ((((hugs)))) prayers for your alcoholic.
Iamhere said
Jul 21, 2018
I too send a welcome to you Marie - glad you found us and glad that you shared. I am still married to my A who I met in AA recovery. The marriage has lasted 27 years so far and one day at a time certainly applies. He relapsed between the birth of our two children and never returned to AA/sobriety.
As we hear, the diseased progressed in all of us. I am who I am and where I am because of Al-Anon. For self and my marriage, it's provided the tools and support to get through the most difficult of times and allowed me to detach as needed for my own survival, sanity and serenity.
Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery.
Bo said
Jul 23, 2018
Marie...welcome...I hope you can find face to face alanon meetings in your area and begin going -- to as many as you can, as often as you can. While you are not new to alanon, in my experience, spiking up my face to face meetings always got me turned around and facing the right direction, and was even more a step in the right direction -- a step toward getting better, and getting healthy.
That said, you referenced, "He has had an affair with a young mistress and he cannot seem to let go of her..another story." -- is is another story? Or is it one ingredient in an overall recipe? Secretive, abusive, dysfunction, affairs, etc. -- all of those things can be part of alcoholism. This is a very progressive disease, one that, yes, as you also referenced, has impact on the loved ones, family members, etc., of the alcoholic. Just because you tried to have a 'normal' relationship with non-drinking men, doesn't mean that this is all that is left, this is what you are destined to be, this is what you must accept, and so on. Relationships with non-drinking men not working out doesn't mean that the default is a relationship with an alcoholic. Remember, you do not have to accept unacceptable behavior!
On one hand you are trying to save a marriage...on the other hand you are in a place of acceptance in that you know he is ill and this is not my fault. However, don't collapse acceptance with you have to take everything that comes along in this situation. You yourself said you "need to get back to self caring and take care of" YOU.
Get back to your face to face meetings. Find a sponsor, and start working on YOU. All the best.
stillgoing said
Jul 23, 2018
Hi Im not new to Alanon just new to this. I am in the same boat except im asking should i save marriage? As I Am here posted- (Paraphrasing)-"30 yrs is a long time to cultivate Alanon slogans and to detach as needed for own sanity" Detatching w love has worked for a long time but I cant help but think that it is my detatching that has contributed to him wanting a divorce?
Bo said
Jul 23, 2018
stillgoing wrote:
Hi Im not new to Alanon just new to this. I am in the same boat except im asking should i save marriage? As I Am here posted- (Paraphrasing)-"30 yrs is a long time to cultivate Alanon slogans and to detach as needed for own sanity" Detatching w love has worked for a long time but I cant help but think that it is my detatching that has contributed to him wanting a divorce?
The "should I save the marriage" question is a very personal one, and it should be. I've long heard in face to face alanon meetings that newcomers/beginners shouldn't make any major decisions for 6 months. In my experience there is no magic number or time-frame, but to me, what it really means is that as a newcomer/beginner, many people come into their first meeting feeling many common things -- fear, pain, duress, various emotions, hopeless, helpless, and many more. That said, if the newcomer/beginner has had enough, meaning they are just sick and tired of all of their efforts not working, not succeeding, etc., and they are just so at the end of their rope so to speak, then perhaps they are ready to make change, to get better, to get healthy, and obtain all of the benefits that the alanon program has to offer. For me, when I was a newcomer/beginner, and I hit my own "rock bottom" -- it was then, that I was ready. I realized that everything I had been doing -- wasn't working. I was getting more and more frustrated, angry, desperate, scared, and more.
If the newcomer/beginner is open minded and ready -- they can begin to work the alanon program and learn, learn how to make changes, changes in your attitude, actions, reactions, behavior, thinking, etc. When we make change, we get better, we get healthy.
Now, as far as detaching as contributing to the alcoholic (the other person) wanting a divorce -- that is a very subjective discussion. If someone is "detaching" properly, with a healthy motivation, with kindness, respect, in a non-punitive way, etc. -- even then, the other person will probably "not take it well" so to speak. Of course they are not going to like it. Not at all. There is "no change" they will like. They want things to continue as they are, status quo. In my experience, as long as they are drinking, any change -- they will not like. There are many reasons for this, and it is not important to understand and try to figure out why, what they are saying, doing, thinking, as our recovery, our getting better, our getting healthy -- is about US, not THEM. That said -- even if the alcoholic said, "I am divorcing you because you've changed, you are detaching, you are distant, etc." and so on -- well, not to oversimplify this -- but that doesn't make it true. That does not make it FACT. There is a saying in the face to face rooms of alanon meetings -- feelings aren't facts.
The alcoholic will use anything they can to deflect, shift blame, stay in denial -- with many of the common weapons being blame, guilt, manipulation, anger/rage, begging, pleading, sadness, accusations, and more. They will do whatever they can to point the finger -- because a major part of the disease is avoiding looking at themselves, taking ownership of their own actions/decisions, and so on. Thus, it becomes about -- everything is everybody else's fault. Sure, we take on that blame and guilt, and that is part of our sickness/disease. It could be codependency, people pleasing, or whatever. It doesn't mattter. However, again, the blame or accusation doesn't mean it's true or that we've done something wrong. If you can't help but think that -- that's about you -- it is an opportunity to look at yourself, look at you and why you are feeling that, placating, taking the blame on, and so on. It's a good exercise and an excellent place to start with a sponsor.
My sponsor always said -- if your qualifier is angry at you...it means you are probably doing something right!
Iamhere said
Jul 24, 2018
still-going - for me, it's taken time but I am blessed to have found a ton of support, love, extended family and healthy friends through recovery. I can readily share that if someone shows me they are not wanting to spend time with me or tells me so, I believe them. I do as is suggested, I take good care of me and I pray for them...
I am distant with my boys (both alcoholics/addicts in recovery) as the pain of our collective pasts, just for today, is too much for them to let go, be respectful and co-exist. I felt it was my 'duty' as their mother to keep going back to the well and try to restart the flow. I am now aware, through a power greater than I that it takes two to get along and two to not get along. My hope remains that we will be able to mend one day and I carry forward, one day at a time, taking care of me and hanging with healthy folks who want to be with me.
I've made it perfectly clear to my AH what my boundaries are. We don't have to discuss our marriage ever as we are on the same page as far as commitment to 'it'. Motives for each of us are possibly different, and that's OK with me. We each have to work this program and walk this journey best we can and explore what's in our best interest for a healthy outcome. For some, that's staying and for others, that's going. I am certain I annoy my AH as often and as much as he annoys me, yet we are better able to work it out because of my recovery. I rarely, if ever, get angry at him as I have a different level of acceptance today as well as lower expectations and accept my own imperfect state and the same of others. He rarely gets angry with me as I do stay on my side of the street and stay out of his 'stuff' as best I can.
BLUF - Bottom line up front - we've found ways that work for us to stay married, resolve conflict/issues and live life one day at a time. It has taken tons of time, tons of forgiveness and tons of acceptance. (((Hugs)))
Doingmybest said
Jul 27, 2018
Hello my friend,
I understand much of your frustration and suffering. I also understand your need to save something of this marriage. My perspective is slightly different, however, much in line with al-anon as well.
I will have been married for 23 years next month (living together for 24 next month) and dating longer. This is my 3rd marriage and his second.
I hit a very serious bottom just over 3.5 years ago. I had decided I could not do anything about him or the drinking and I was fairly certain (still believe) there was another woman. It was hard to deny. You know the signs and they always deny anyway. It is very important that you find your own happiness. It is certainly not easy...thats for sure. But, only you can make your decisions.
My ESH on this is that I completely stopped doing for him what he could do for himself....period. I am not proud of some of my earlier actions because I dont believe my motives were in the right place. I was still pretty sick! Perhave we will always have some alcohol affective disorder...thats my new word for what happens to us, because I believe we have an illness too. Im no dr and I have no idea if this term even exists. It just fits...lol
I had decided enough was enough. I was emotionally distancing myself from him more each day. Then, the unbelievable happened and he hit bottom. He literally cried with every word for two to three weeks...this from a man I had never seen shed a tear. WOW, was that an eye opener! Of course he was so sick that he is unable to remember many things from the earlier days. He had to handle his problems himself this time and he was scared, and I mean really scared! He had always had someone to cover for his inadequacies and he had to solve his problems on his own. I honestly thought he was going to commit suicide, so I finally agreed to support him emotionally while he was actively working on his issues. at the time, it was still just a stalling technique because I intended to go ahead with a divorce once his mess was settled. I got to the point where I truly felt I couldnt kick a dog when he was down anymore, so I did offer some emotional support (in a detached way.
To make a very long story somewhat shorter, he sought treatment with real AA commitment, eventually made amends to me and our daughter, worked every day or every minute, if needed, to solve his alcohol obsession, and eventually detoxed from over 30 beers a day, every day, with more on weekends! He changed friends, he made certain his groups came first, he changed his job, he changed his life, and I saw something I thought was actually impossible. I saw him have true empathyfor someone... not the con game he used to play, but true empathy. Wow, what a blessing from God!
He still attends AA as often as possible, has remained sober, and has remained my husband (I decided not to give up on the relationship, despite the history of all things alcoholic).
Occasionally, we do not agree on things, but we do not argue about them. We make time for each other, though it is very, very different, and not without challenges. However, I can honestly say I thank God for stepping in and helping to guide both of us in the direction we were meant to travel, together. And, for the record, I do not feel the need to check up on him any longer and he does not appear to be lying (or ever considering cheating) anymore. Life for us is actually good Most of the time...and we both know it be we because discuss it.
Aloha Marie and thank you for finding us with your experiences. So often I think I am the only victim and then I am humbly reminded I am not and this too will pass.
Our programs of recover gave me so many alternative behaviors to follow and practice instead of what I thought I could and should do and what I thought I knew best to do only to find out that not only did I not know and that I didn't know I didn't know. My sponsorship taught me to practice, practice, practice what I was being given and to take the focus off of the behaviors of my alcoholic/addict wife and others and place it on myself and what I needed to do with and for myself...one being coming here on a daily basis and listening to the fellowship...like yourself and getting reminded about how this works.
30 years is a long time to cultivate habits and slogans like, Let go and Let God, When in doubt DON'T, Turn it over and all the others interfere with me "doing the same things over and over again...expecting different results".
My family and I are carriers of this disease...know it or like it no not...we are powerless with the exception of that Higher Power we use to stand and walk with us and relieve us doing stuff we have no idea about will work. It might not be that you will be instrumental in saving your marriage. How has that worked out for you up till now? I wanted to me the hero man in my marriage with my alcoholic addict and still couldn't cure the std's she brought home.
Did my Higher Power want to save my marriage? I found out my Higher Power didn't even want me in it...It was my choice while my Higher Power was telling me "you don't NEED to be married, you need to be sober and sane and serene. I married my program and know what peace of mind and serenity means and what my responsibilities with/in it are.
I could not save my previous marriages...alone. Keep coming back bringing your recovery. ((((hugs))))
prayers for your alcoholic.
As we hear, the diseased progressed in all of us. I am who I am and where I am because of Al-Anon. For self and my marriage, it's provided the tools and support to get through the most difficult of times and allowed me to detach as needed for my own survival, sanity and serenity.
Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery.
That said, you referenced, "He has had an affair with a young mistress and he cannot seem to let go of her..another story." -- is is another story? Or is it one ingredient in an overall recipe? Secretive, abusive, dysfunction, affairs, etc. -- all of those things can be part of alcoholism. This is a very progressive disease, one that, yes, as you also referenced, has impact on the loved ones, family members, etc., of the alcoholic. Just because you tried to have a 'normal' relationship with non-drinking men, doesn't mean that this is all that is left, this is what you are destined to be, this is what you must accept, and so on. Relationships with non-drinking men not working out doesn't mean that the default is a relationship with an alcoholic. Remember, you do not have to accept unacceptable behavior!
On one hand you are trying to save a marriage...on the other hand you are in a place of acceptance in that you know he is ill and this is not my fault. However, don't collapse acceptance with you have to take everything that comes along in this situation. You yourself said you "need to get back to self caring and take care of" YOU.
Get back to your face to face meetings. Find a sponsor, and start working on YOU. All the best.
The "should I save the marriage" question is a very personal one, and it should be. I've long heard in face to face alanon meetings that newcomers/beginners shouldn't make any major decisions for 6 months. In my experience there is no magic number or time-frame, but to me, what it really means is that as a newcomer/beginner, many people come into their first meeting feeling many common things -- fear, pain, duress, various emotions, hopeless, helpless, and many more. That said, if the newcomer/beginner has had enough, meaning they are just sick and tired of all of their efforts not working, not succeeding, etc., and they are just so at the end of their rope so to speak, then perhaps they are ready to make change, to get better, to get healthy, and obtain all of the benefits that the alanon program has to offer. For me, when I was a newcomer/beginner, and I hit my own "rock bottom" -- it was then, that I was ready. I realized that everything I had been doing -- wasn't working. I was getting more and more frustrated, angry, desperate, scared, and more.
If the newcomer/beginner is open minded and ready -- they can begin to work the alanon program and learn, learn how to make changes, changes in your attitude, actions, reactions, behavior, thinking, etc. When we make change, we get better, we get healthy.
Now, as far as detaching as contributing to the alcoholic (the other person) wanting a divorce -- that is a very subjective discussion. If someone is "detaching" properly, with a healthy motivation, with kindness, respect, in a non-punitive way, etc. -- even then, the other person will probably "not take it well" so to speak. Of course they are not going to like it. Not at all. There is "no change" they will like. They want things to continue as they are, status quo. In my experience, as long as they are drinking, any change -- they will not like. There are many reasons for this, and it is not important to understand and try to figure out why, what they are saying, doing, thinking, as our recovery, our getting better, our getting healthy -- is about US, not THEM. That said -- even if the alcoholic said, "I am divorcing you because you've changed, you are detaching, you are distant, etc." and so on -- well, not to oversimplify this -- but that doesn't make it true. That does not make it FACT. There is a saying in the face to face rooms of alanon meetings -- feelings aren't facts.
The alcoholic will use anything they can to deflect, shift blame, stay in denial -- with many of the common weapons being blame, guilt, manipulation, anger/rage, begging, pleading, sadness, accusations, and more. They will do whatever they can to point the finger -- because a major part of the disease is avoiding looking at themselves, taking ownership of their own actions/decisions, and so on. Thus, it becomes about -- everything is everybody else's fault. Sure, we take on that blame and guilt, and that is part of our sickness/disease. It could be codependency, people pleasing, or whatever. It doesn't mattter. However, again, the blame or accusation doesn't mean it's true or that we've done something wrong. If you can't help but think that -- that's about you -- it is an opportunity to look at yourself, look at you and why you are feeling that, placating, taking the blame on, and so on. It's a good exercise and an excellent place to start with a sponsor.
My sponsor always said -- if your qualifier is angry at you...it means you are probably doing something right!
I am distant with my boys (both alcoholics/addicts in recovery) as the pain of our collective pasts, just for today, is too much for them to let go, be respectful and co-exist. I felt it was my 'duty' as their mother to keep going back to the well and try to restart the flow. I am now aware, through a power greater than I that it takes two to get along and two to not get along. My hope remains that we will be able to mend one day and I carry forward, one day at a time, taking care of me and hanging with healthy folks who want to be with me.
I've made it perfectly clear to my AH what my boundaries are. We don't have to discuss our marriage ever as we are on the same page as far as commitment to 'it'. Motives for each of us are possibly different, and that's OK with me. We each have to work this program and walk this journey best we can and explore what's in our best interest for a healthy outcome. For some, that's staying and for others, that's going. I am certain I annoy my AH as often and as much as he annoys me, yet we are better able to work it out because of my recovery. I rarely, if ever, get angry at him as I have a different level of acceptance today as well as lower expectations and accept my own imperfect state and the same of others. He rarely gets angry with me as I do stay on my side of the street and stay out of his 'stuff' as best I can.
BLUF - Bottom line up front - we've found ways that work for us to stay married, resolve conflict/issues and live life one day at a time. It has taken tons of time, tons of forgiveness and tons of acceptance. (((Hugs)))
Hello my friend,
I understand much of your frustration and suffering. I also understand your need to save something of this marriage. My perspective is slightly different, however, much in line with al-anon as well.
I will have been married for 23 years next month (living together for 24 next month) and dating longer. This is my 3rd marriage and his second.
I hit a very serious bottom just over 3.5 years ago. I had decided I could not do anything about him or the drinking and I was fairly certain (still believe) there was another woman. It was hard to deny. You know the signs and they always deny anyway. It is very important that you find your own happiness. It is certainly not easy...thats for sure. But, only you can make your decisions.
My ESH on this is that I completely stopped doing for him what he could do for himself....period. I am not proud of some of my earlier actions because I dont believe my motives were in the right place. I was still pretty sick! Perhave we will always have some alcohol affective disorder...thats my new word for what happens to us, because I believe we have an illness too. Im no dr and I have no idea if this term even exists. It just fits...lol
I had decided enough was enough. I was emotionally distancing myself from him more each day. Then, the unbelievable happened and he hit bottom. He literally cried with every word for two to three weeks...this from a man I had never seen shed a tear. WOW, was that an eye opener! Of course he was so sick that he is unable to remember many things from the earlier days. He had to handle his problems himself this time and he was scared, and I mean really scared! He had always had someone to cover for his inadequacies and he had to solve his problems on his own. I honestly thought he was going to commit suicide, so I finally agreed to support him emotionally while he was actively working on his issues. at the time, it was still just a stalling technique because I intended to go ahead with a divorce once his mess was settled. I got to the point where I truly felt I couldnt kick a dog when he was down anymore, so I did offer some emotional support (in a detached way.
To make a very long story somewhat shorter, he sought treatment with real AA commitment, eventually made amends to me and our daughter, worked every day or every minute, if needed, to solve his alcohol obsession, and eventually detoxed from over 30 beers a day, every day, with more on weekends! He changed friends, he made certain his groups came first, he changed his job, he changed his life, and I saw something I thought was actually impossible. I saw him have true empathyfor someone... not the con game he used to play, but true empathy. Wow, what a blessing from God!
He still attends AA as often as possible, has remained sober, and has remained my husband (I decided not to give up on the relationship, despite the history of all things alcoholic).
Occasionally, we do not agree on things, but we do not argue about them. We make time for each other, though it is very, very different, and not without challenges. However, I can honestly say I thank God for stepping in and helping to guide both of us in the direction we were meant to travel, together. And, for the record, I do not feel the need to check up on him any longer and he does not appear to be lying (or ever considering cheating) anymore. Life for us is actually good Most of the time...and we both know it be we because discuss it.
I wish you all the best. All things are possible.