I haven't posted on here for some time. For one thing just too busy with kids out of school new job, and trying to sell the house and moving. This seems to be a really low point among those points for me. I don't know if it's just been too much stress or what. But I find myself just being so thin-skinned and raw. I'm acting like a person I don't know. I can barely take a joke anymore. I find myself wanting to just hide somewhere and not come out. This isn't me.
My kids are such great young people. And I am just constantly criticizing and impatient with then. At least that's how it feels to me. It seems like all my tools from Al-Anon get put into use when I'm dealing with my ex such as Let It Go or how important is it. But then once I'm not dealing with her I still have the negative feelings and resentments left over from the encounter. And then it comes out into the areas of my life.
It's been a real dilemma for me. Now on top of it I've realized that I really let myself get screwed out of a lot of quality time with the kids in the visitation orders I signed off on. So I'm feeling pretty burned about that and the fact that I'm working and she's not. It's just generally a bad deal but I didn't realize how bad of a deal until summer time came around and I started this new job.
We're trying to sell the house and it seemed like we had been able to work together somewhat on that issue. But now of course she wants to change this or that Arrangement get more money for something we never agreed on, and so on and so on. It's very disappointing and frustrating. My brain is so fried this month just from moving and a shoulder injury and everything else I can barely remember a slogan when I need to.
I am doing what I can to try to keep moving forward. I went to a meet up in the new town that I'm in to try to just be around some new people perhaps make some new friends. Also went to my old home meeting which was much needed. My kids are my biggest concern. I am constantly trying to be patient with them and it seems like they constantly test that patients in one way or another. But when I sit back and look at the things that trouble me it's mostly day-to-day type stuff leaving messes around the house or just not following simple instructions. Things of that sort. But, it seems like as soon as I am able to find peaceful part of my mind that allows me to express love and patience it just gets invaded with more garbage. Some new demand is thrust upon me and I'm not able to hold on to that peace. Having no family nearby other than my kids I just feel unmoored and a drift. But I really don't think I want to go move again to try to be near family. Thankfully, I do have a really good group of friends who have helped me out a lot. But I often feel like I have to ration my request for help or whatever. I think there's also a level of pride or embarrassment rather and I don't want people knowing how much I'm struggling.
Sorry for the rambling post. But, I'm glad to have a spot to just dump all this.
Stan1 said
Jun 20, 2018
Good Morning (((westman))). Sorry things are a little stressful right now. Change can be a different experience for everyone involved. I think of it kind of like getting a new pair of shoes that just look and feel a bit awkward until I get used to them. Glad to see that you are here and working your program. Keep Coming Back.
hotrod said
Jun 20, 2018
((Westman)) I agree change is a huge challenge. It certainly sounds as if you are showing up , using your tools and being honest and open. You got this-- Stay in the moment and in the day, trust HP and keep showing up. Positive thoughts going out to you and your family
Iamhere said
Jun 20, 2018
(((Westman))) - great to see you and your post reminded me....This too shall pass. Those experts out there that suggest how we 'should be' and 'should react' and ...... are right about a few things. Key stress events and you've touched on so many - divorce, sale of home, move, new job, etc. It seems to me perfectly logical that you are feeling 'it'!! I am also reminded that we're told that HP will not ever give us more than we can handle. I had a discussion with my HP about this just yesterday - asking for a break as I too have been overwhelmed and saddled with a few life events that have sent me a bit sideways.
I am so hopeful that writing this out has helped you - for me, there is something healing about writing and sharing. I also am reminded of the three A(s) - Awareness, Acceptance and Action - you're there and that's a great place to be vs. stuck in the unhealthy place AND unaware. I agree with Betty - you got this....One Day at a Time.
Keep coming back and know you're not alone!!
joker said
Jun 20, 2018
Just want to let you know, I relate to the stress your under. My ex-bf is stressing me out over selling the house. There is so much that needs to be done before the house can be sold but he does not care, he just wants his money from the house and name off the title and off the mortgage and be set free. I am doing what I can on my end to see what my options are, buy him out or sell. I have gotten behind on things before I can go see a mortgage specialist about my options. I am just de-cluttering all what I can around the house for now and saving what is important. I am too trying to keep my head above water. I am trying to read al-anon material as much as I can to keep myself on the sanity road. I am saying it will get done, it will get done. Step by step, step by step, one thing at a time, one thing at a time. What can be done today? Just for today, just for today! What can I do today? what is priority today? what can be done tomorrow? I have a running list of things to do to keep my sanity. I too keep saying, this shall pass, this shall pass. Maybe get extra help? Hire someone to help with certain things? I understand your situation and I know you can do it. If I can do it, so can you! Take time out for you. Stop and take a me break. I had to do that to get my head on straight. Hang in there! lots of Hugs! Lots of Hugs and you are doing awsome!
WestMan said
Jun 20, 2018
Yeah I've been taking breaks. It helps in the short term. In my Monday meeting I spoke with a friend about these issues a little bit. She mentioned the analogy of eating and elephant, one bite at a time. I replied that it did feel kind of like that but that I also have the elephant sitting on me.
Deep breaths.
a4l said
Jun 20, 2018
I can relate to lots in this post. It's not pleasant being short with everyone. We're human and kids are so constant. I hope you keep getting those little breaks and breezes.
SerenityRUS said
Jun 20, 2018
I love the saying stop trying to eat an elephant in one sitting .. because it's so true .. I can't manage at times looking at the whole situation it's overwhelming big time. I can take a step back do a HALT and figure out where I am lacking in my own self care and then I can move forward again. I am usually neglecting my own needs. You just can't pour from an empty cup .. so making sure my cup is full helps me be a better person overall .. and find something that trips your trigger in a positive way.
Thankfully I have some PTO coming and I am taking 5 days to reconnect with me and the kids .. I hope my BF as well however that's up to him .. regardless if he joins in it's not going to take away from the down time I have coming. It will be what it's going to be and just take some time to breathe.
Big hugs,
This too shall pass and you know cut yourself some slack .. I would be slap happy not in a good way over the whole issue of moving and restarting in one fell swoop that's hard stuff .. why do you think that it should be easy? Of course you feel raw that's completely rational and I would venture to say normal in this extraordinarily abnormal situation. The best you can do is do it with the most dignity and grace you can which it sounds like you are. I am sorry to hear you are feeling slighted over the visitation .. not sure if she's got to much visitation in your mind or not enough .. maybe you can work a new agreement that is better. The bottom line is you don't know unless you ask.
S :)
Tude said
Jun 20, 2018
(((Westman))) I don't like me, when I start feeling this way. It's like a flag that tells me to check in on my "house" and clean etc (steps, sharing etc) I can fully relate to when things get too busy and yes........the pain of a bodily injury. I love following your ESH's. They are encouraging, honest as heck and helps me see in YOU, this program working as well as in SELF here. Is there any way you can take a small chunk of time for just you?
Hugs!!!
Jen61 said
Jun 20, 2018
I think back a few years ago and I was like that too. For me, I was just burned out and tired of going around and around and around. I had a lot of anger and bitterness inside me. Coming to this site and going to face to face meetings really helped me, but it was a slow process. Today I can honestly say I am no longer angry and feel good about my life. But, it is truly day by day.
VickiR said
Jun 20, 2018
Hi Westman! I just wanted to say I feel your pain. My house is closing in a month (earlier than I wanted but my STBXAH forced the closing date up so he could get his money sooner.) This left me pulling my daughter out of her summer program, scrambling for childcare, and I havent been able to find something to buy, now trying to rent while looking. I too have days where I am grinding and snappy with my daughter - kids can really push our buttons. I agree with the advice, just keep the focus on the short term. I saw an Oprah quote last week, what is the next right move? - I think that is sound advice - I am doing my best to take things day by day. There is so much tied up in moving and being uprooted - I think that this will set me free though, and I hope the same thing for you! You will make it through Im sure, good luck.
PosiesandPuppies said
Jun 20, 2018
(((((Westman))))
Just wanted you to know that I have been in your shoes emotionally... just less kids, older kid, and no house to have to deal with. Luckily for me, my son was old enough that I had a "sit-down" with him to let him know that there will be times that I will be short, snappy, sad, emotional, you name it! I asked for his patience during those times. I think it helped the situation that he knew my feelings were not about him at all. My son just graduated from high school... time flies. So when you find yourself feeling impatient with your kids (and we've all been there!), remind yourself that soon they won't be this age, and you will seriously be wishing time would turn back! LOL! Sometimes it takes real work, but you write like you are an intelligent, compassionate guy... you got this! Just remember to keep in mind, HALT.
I offer you peace, support and the knowledge that this phase will not last forever... you WILL begin to see yourself smile, then laugh. It does happen.
milkwood said
Jun 21, 2018
Sending ((((((hugs)))))) Westman,
I recognise something of myself in your post - I'm sorry you're going through this mire. It can be a learning journey even when the lessons are tough.
It sounds as if you have a lot going on, everything in fact! That is a lot of things calling for your attention and energy. I'm not surprised that you are feeling "it". When I'm in that boat I get snappy and end up being short tempered with the people I care about the most. Of course this means that I don't like myself so then I start being mean to myself as well- what the heck??!
Awareness of what I was doing was my first step. I would have loved someone to have stepped in to take care of me but then realised that this rescuer could also be me. I wanted to be a kinder person, to remember to ask myself "how important is this?" before I reacted to something irritating and I found that, for me, I needed to build some time into my day to refill my energy bank with something that made me feel cared for, it became my medicine in fact!. When I didn't take 'my medicine' I didn't cope as well as I would like with others and since I'm not very good at doing things for myself this recognition that I could care for myself as a way of caring better for others did the trick to begin with!
I think it is ok to be gentle with oneself when there is a lot going on. Isn't it wonderful that we have a place like MIP where we can put the baggage down, stand back from it and learn!
WestMan said
Jun 22, 2018
Attending a therapist session for our youngest. She seems good, been seeing her since this past winter. We often will go in with her and update on the goings on and do a little group work. I already had a rough day and made us almost 40 minutes late to the appointment.
Then listen as my ex subtly dominates the conversation. She wants the therapist to know that I've been working hard to make sure the kids know our breakup is all her fault. (I've done the opposite and tried to ). She complains that my son said I told him way more about everything that happened than I should have. I had one conversation with him and told him what she already had, she's an alcoholic and that she needed our love and support.
Iamhere said
Jun 22, 2018
(((Westman))) - my experience is that a good counselor will not believe what's said, but will deal with what's seen. Stand in your truth and respond when necessary. I'm sorry for your pain - there are times when I felt I was doing my best to support another and it wasn't 'perceived' that way. A sponsor was always helpful in reminding me that I was doing my best, the disease was still present even with recovery and being genuine and true to me was most important. Hang in there!
Tude said
Jun 23, 2018
I love what IAH shared! The counselor's we've had are totally unbiased. Upon leaving the sessions it may have been a bit of work and a bit uncomfortable when some truths (like some denial areas etc) came out to work on BUT......it never felt one sided at all. Hugs!!!
Bo said
Jun 23, 2018
I so very well understand being "stuck" in whatever "it" is. I've heard people say "when you are in it" and you know exactly what they are saying. What I found so interesting, so ironic...before I found recovery, before I got better, got healthy...I was in it...absolutely. But I didn't know it! Everyone else saw that I was trying to fix my wife, control her drinking, get her to stop drinking, prove to her that she had a problem, prove to her that she was destroying herself and me, and our marriage, trying to make my point, trying to be right, and I was talking to everyone about it. I was so obsessed, immersed, and focused on her and what she was doing, what she was saying, I was trying to figure everything out, and so on. That was my problem, my sickness, my disease. I was so in it -- and I just did not see it. Some people said I was in the soup, in the quicksand, in the obsession, in the muck and mire, and so on. What was so scary, is that it seemed normal to me. This is what I had to do.
Then, after I found recovery and got better, got healthy...the "in it" was very different. The first and maybe biggest difference was that I knew it. Oh did I know it! LOL. I could feel it. I could taste it. I was "off" and "not myself" and I knew I was in a bad place. I was short-fused, short-tempered, impatient, constantly agitated, frustrated, overwhelmed, often angry, sometimes depressed, very often having anxiety...and I knew it.
So, for me, it was STOP. I had to just stop. I was facing and moving in the wrong direction, an unhealthy direction...so first things first, I had to STOP. Then I had to turn around, and face the right direction, the healthy direction. And, in order to start moving in the right direction, I had to take that first step in the right direction. For me, that step was the basics, the fundamentals. One, was meetings. I spiked up my meetings. I went to a meeting a day. Second, was my readings. I ready CTC and ODAT, the daily reading, every morning, every night and during the day if I had to. I looked up various topics, feelings, issues, in the back of the books and then went to the page on that feeling or issue. I did this several times a day. Third, was picking up the phone. That was the big one. I had to pick up the phone every single day -- several times a day at times -- and call my sponsor. I needed objectivity and accountability. I needed his perspective, I needed him to hold me accountable so that I did the "right thing" or the "healthy thing" -- and that allowed me to get better. I needed to get the healthy perspective. I needed to change my thinking, my actions, reactions, etc. Even speaking with other friends from program helped me tremendously. Picking up the phone, talking to my sponsor helped me more than anything.
In addition, the basics, the fundamentals were step one, two and three. Acceptance. Real, hard-core, complete and total acceptance. Surrender. Letting go.
That's what got me out of it.
WestMan said
Jun 25, 2018
Thanks all and sorry for the abrupt finish on the last post. I think I made my point but was finishing writing that when something came up.
Anyway the therapist suggested us coming to see her separately from our daughter to work on at least communication skills. We agreed but I have reservations. I have heard people say that therapists are trained to see through the BS but I know that people are people and some may not do as well in this regard. Communication is only one of our issues and, in my opinion, not really the biggest problem.
I'm trying to work with a person who has no problem fabricating alternate realities. Manipulation, tricks, and self-dealing are commonplace. Throughout our relationship I learned that whenever she complained about poor communication I would try harder. This usually meant me giving in to something she wanted. I thought "well you're supposed to make compromises in a marriage." but eventually realized that I was the only one who was ever compromising. And that the ways we were coming to these "compromises" and some of the things I was conceding to were not how a equal caring relationship should work.
I've learned that I pretty much can't say anything, no matter how benign, without it being twisted up into the opposite. I can't have an open conversation or ask an opinion because that is an opening for manipulation. And I can't really spell this out for the therapist without derailing the process and I don't feel comfortable opening myself up to trouble as has happened so often in the past. I'll go in the hopes that we might get one or two concrete tools to make things a tad bit easier.
SerenityRUS said
Jun 25, 2018
WestMan,
I deal with a similar issue at home and at work .. so what I have learned to do is say ... I make my statements keep them in the "I" format however I also make sure that if it's misdirected to say ok I hear what you are saying and we can address that later .. this is what I am currently address and I would like to stay on topic. If you are unclear what I am communicating I will state it again.
These are kind of bullying tactics to derail the conversations and it's actually deflection to get everything off topic .. so I just encourage you to keep going back to the current topic while acknowledging and redirecting the conversation. I know that can be challenging to do .. it helps keep people on track. I am sure you are far more diplomatic than I am ... I tend to drop truth bombs and then come back into the conversation .. I'm sorry you feel that way and if you want to address my behavior next we can .. right now we are discussing XYZ. I would like to stay on topic.
Vocalize your concerns privately to the therapist .. I'm not saying make a list of wrongs done .. I'm saying I need to know you keep an open mind and know how to deal with recovering as well as active alcoholics .. if you don't we need a different therapist .. there are behaviors that are bigger than just the communication .. if we communicated well .. we would still be married .. I want what's best for the kids at this point. So how do you suggest I handle communication with someone who may or may not be drinking. For me those statements pulled the therapist into this is what I deal with .. this is what's going on .. and if we can't work on the whole picture communication isn't happening .. what would you suggest if it were you. Those to me are all statements of facts. There's nothing personal attached.
You have a right to have an opinion and vocalize it .. it's not on you that she has a problem with it. Oh well ... LOL .. it is what it is .. it's more important that you find your voice. When I found my voice my X realized I was not the same woman he left. His attorney told him sit down shut up and pay attention.
Big big hugs .. it will get better over all .. this too shall pass .. and it doesn't help moving having resentments, having sorrows and so on. You are doing great and right where you need to be.
S :)
WestMan said
Jun 25, 2018
Thanks Serenity. I'm so grateful for this program and this group. I'm feeling a bit better in general but still having a tough time once in awhile. I read C2C today and the subject of self-pity was notable. That's something I've been on the lookout for as I fall into that trap sometimes. It can be tricky for me as I know that I am certainly still grieving and I need to allow for that, cut myself slack and talk with friends or sponsors about it. But there's allowing and then there's Wallowing which I never noticed until now are nearly the same word.
A red flag for me is when I'm talking to the fourth friend about the same issue or the same person about an issue more than once. It might mean I'm just still trying to work through an issue or I might be resisting letting go or seeking some validation. Anyway I'm going to go sit down with the kids and enjoy the present for a little bit.
I haven't posted on here for some time. For one thing just too busy with kids out of school new job, and trying to sell the house and moving. This seems to be a really low point among those points for me. I don't know if it's just been too much stress or what. But I find myself just being so thin-skinned and raw. I'm acting like a person I don't know. I can barely take a joke anymore. I find myself wanting to just hide somewhere and not come out. This isn't me.
My kids are such great young people. And I am just constantly criticizing and impatient with then. At least that's how it feels to me. It seems like all my tools from Al-Anon get put into use when I'm dealing with my ex such as Let It Go or how important is it. But then once I'm not dealing with her I still have the negative feelings and resentments left over from the encounter. And then it comes out into the areas of my life.
It's been a real dilemma for me. Now on top of it I've realized that I really let myself get screwed out of a lot of quality time with the kids in the visitation orders I signed off on. So I'm feeling pretty burned about that and the fact that I'm working and she's not. It's just generally a bad deal but I didn't realize how bad of a deal until summer time came around and I started this new job.
We're trying to sell the house and it seemed like we had been able to work together somewhat on that issue. But now of course she wants to change this or that Arrangement get more money for something we never agreed on, and so on and so on. It's very disappointing and frustrating. My brain is so fried this month just from moving and a shoulder injury and everything else I can barely remember a slogan when I need to.
I am doing what I can to try to keep moving forward. I went to a meet up in the new town that I'm in to try to just be around some new people perhaps make some new friends. Also went to my old home meeting which was much needed. My kids are my biggest concern. I am constantly trying to be patient with them and it seems like they constantly test that patients in one way or another. But when I sit back and look at the things that trouble me it's mostly day-to-day type stuff leaving messes around the house or just not following simple instructions. Things of that sort. But, it seems like as soon as I am able to find peaceful part of my mind that allows me to express love and patience it just gets invaded with more garbage. Some new demand is thrust upon me and I'm not able to hold on to that peace. Having no family nearby other than my kids I just feel unmoored and a drift. But I really don't think I want to go move again to try to be near family. Thankfully, I do have a really good group of friends who have helped me out a lot. But I often feel like I have to ration my request for help or whatever. I think there's also a level of pride or embarrassment rather and I don't want people knowing how much I'm struggling.
Sorry for the rambling post. But, I'm glad to have a spot to just dump all this.
I am so hopeful that writing this out has helped you - for me, there is something healing about writing and sharing. I also am reminded of the three A(s) - Awareness, Acceptance and Action - you're there and that's a great place to be vs. stuck in the unhealthy place AND unaware. I agree with Betty - you got this....One Day at a Time.
Keep coming back and know you're not alone!!
Just want to let you know, I relate to the stress your under. My ex-bf is stressing me out over selling the house. There is so much that needs to be done before the house can be sold but he does not care, he just wants his money from the house and name off the title and off the mortgage and be set free. I am doing what I can on my end to see what my options are, buy him out or sell. I have gotten behind on things before I can go see a mortgage specialist about my options. I am just de-cluttering all what I can around the house for now and saving what is important. I am too trying to keep my head above water. I am trying to read al-anon material as much as I can to keep myself on the sanity road. I am saying it will get done, it will get done. Step by step, step by step, one thing at a time, one thing at a time. What can be done today? Just for today, just for today! What can I do today? what is priority today? what can be done tomorrow? I have a running list of things to do to keep my sanity. I too keep saying, this shall pass, this shall pass. Maybe get extra help? Hire someone to help with certain things? I understand your situation and I know you can do it. If I can do it, so can you! Take time out for you. Stop and take a me break. I had to do that to get my head on straight. Hang in there! lots of Hugs! Lots of Hugs and you are doing awsome!
Deep breaths.
Thankfully I have some PTO coming and I am taking 5 days to reconnect with me and the kids .. I hope my BF as well however that's up to him .. regardless if he joins in it's not going to take away from the down time I have coming. It will be what it's going to be and just take some time to breathe.
Big hugs,
This too shall pass and you know cut yourself some slack .. I would be slap happy not in a good way over the whole issue of moving and restarting in one fell swoop that's hard stuff .. why do you think that it should be easy? Of course you feel raw that's completely rational and I would venture to say normal in this extraordinarily abnormal situation. The best you can do is do it with the most dignity and grace you can which it sounds like you are. I am sorry to hear you are feeling slighted over the visitation .. not sure if she's got to much visitation in your mind or not enough .. maybe you can work a new agreement that is better. The bottom line is you don't know unless you ask.
S :)
Hugs!!!
Just wanted you to know that I have been in your shoes emotionally... just less kids, older kid, and no house to have to deal with. Luckily for me, my son was old enough that I had a "sit-down" with him to let him know that there will be times that I will be short, snappy, sad, emotional, you name it! I asked for his patience during those times. I think it helped the situation that he knew my feelings were not about him at all. My son just graduated from high school... time flies. So when you find yourself feeling impatient with your kids (and we've all been there!), remind yourself that soon they won't be this age, and you will seriously be wishing time would turn back! LOL! Sometimes it takes real work, but you write like you are an intelligent, compassionate guy... you got this! Just remember to keep in mind, HALT.
I offer you peace, support and the knowledge that this phase will not last forever... you WILL begin to see yourself smile, then laugh. It does happen.
I recognise something of myself in your post - I'm sorry you're going through this mire. It can be a learning journey even when the lessons are tough.
It sounds as if you have a lot going on, everything in fact! That is a lot of things calling for your attention and energy. I'm not surprised that you are feeling "it". When I'm in that boat I get snappy and end up being short tempered with the people I care about the most. Of course this means that I don't like myself so then I start being mean to myself as well- what the heck??!
Awareness of what I was doing was my first step. I would have loved someone to have stepped in to take care of me but then realised that this rescuer could also be me. I wanted to be a kinder person, to remember to ask myself "how important is this?" before I reacted to something irritating and I found that, for me, I needed to build some time into my day to refill my energy bank with something that made me feel cared for, it became my medicine in fact!. When I didn't take 'my medicine' I didn't cope as well as I would like with others and since I'm not very good at doing things for myself this recognition that I could care for myself as a way of caring better for others did the trick to begin with!
I think it is ok to be gentle with oneself when there is a lot going on. Isn't it wonderful that we have a place like MIP where we can put the baggage down, stand back from it and learn!
I so very well understand being "stuck" in whatever "it" is. I've heard people say "when you are in it" and you know exactly what they are saying. What I found so interesting, so ironic...before I found recovery, before I got better, got healthy...I was in it...absolutely. But I didn't know it! Everyone else saw that I was trying to fix my wife, control her drinking, get her to stop drinking, prove to her that she had a problem, prove to her that she was destroying herself and me, and our marriage, trying to make my point, trying to be right, and I was talking to everyone about it. I was so obsessed, immersed, and focused on her and what she was doing, what she was saying, I was trying to figure everything out, and so on. That was my problem, my sickness, my disease. I was so in it -- and I just did not see it. Some people said I was in the soup, in the quicksand, in the obsession, in the muck and mire, and so on. What was so scary, is that it seemed normal to me. This is what I had to do.
Then, after I found recovery and got better, got healthy...the "in it" was very different. The first and maybe biggest difference was that I knew it. Oh did I know it! LOL. I could feel it. I could taste it. I was "off" and "not myself" and I knew I was in a bad place. I was short-fused, short-tempered, impatient, constantly agitated, frustrated, overwhelmed, often angry, sometimes depressed, very often having anxiety...and I knew it.
So, for me, it was STOP. I had to just stop. I was facing and moving in the wrong direction, an unhealthy direction...so first things first, I had to STOP. Then I had to turn around, and face the right direction, the healthy direction. And, in order to start moving in the right direction, I had to take that first step in the right direction. For me, that step was the basics, the fundamentals. One, was meetings. I spiked up my meetings. I went to a meeting a day. Second, was my readings. I ready CTC and ODAT, the daily reading, every morning, every night and during the day if I had to. I looked up various topics, feelings, issues, in the back of the books and then went to the page on that feeling or issue. I did this several times a day. Third, was picking up the phone. That was the big one. I had to pick up the phone every single day -- several times a day at times -- and call my sponsor. I needed objectivity and accountability. I needed his perspective, I needed him to hold me accountable so that I did the "right thing" or the "healthy thing" -- and that allowed me to get better. I needed to get the healthy perspective. I needed to change my thinking, my actions, reactions, etc. Even speaking with other friends from program helped me tremendously. Picking up the phone, talking to my sponsor helped me more than anything.
In addition, the basics, the fundamentals were step one, two and three. Acceptance. Real, hard-core, complete and total acceptance. Surrender. Letting go.
That's what got me out of it.
Thanks all and sorry for the abrupt finish on the last post. I think I made my point but was finishing writing that when something came up.
Anyway the therapist suggested us coming to see her separately from our daughter to work on at least communication skills. We agreed but I have reservations. I have heard people say that therapists are trained to see through the BS but I know that people are people and some may not do as well in this regard. Communication is only one of our issues and, in my opinion, not really the biggest problem.
I'm trying to work with a person who has no problem fabricating alternate realities. Manipulation, tricks, and self-dealing are commonplace. Throughout our relationship I learned that whenever she complained about poor communication I would try harder. This usually meant me giving in to something she wanted. I thought "well you're supposed to make compromises in a marriage." but eventually realized that I was the only one who was ever compromising. And that the ways we were coming to these "compromises" and some of the things I was conceding to were not how a equal caring relationship should work.
I've learned that I pretty much can't say anything, no matter how benign, without it being twisted up into the opposite. I can't have an open conversation or ask an opinion because that is an opening for manipulation. And I can't really spell this out for the therapist without derailing the process and I don't feel comfortable opening myself up to trouble as has happened so often in the past. I'll go in the hopes that we might get one or two concrete tools to make things a tad bit easier.
I deal with a similar issue at home and at work .. so what I have learned to do is say ... I make my statements keep them in the "I" format however I also make sure that if it's misdirected to say ok I hear what you are saying and we can address that later .. this is what I am currently address and I would like to stay on topic. If you are unclear what I am communicating I will state it again.
These are kind of bullying tactics to derail the conversations and it's actually deflection to get everything off topic .. so I just encourage you to keep going back to the current topic while acknowledging and redirecting the conversation. I know that can be challenging to do .. it helps keep people on track. I am sure you are far more diplomatic than I am ... I tend to drop truth bombs and then come back into the conversation .. I'm sorry you feel that way and if you want to address my behavior next we can .. right now we are discussing XYZ. I would like to stay on topic.
Vocalize your concerns privately to the therapist .. I'm not saying make a list of wrongs done .. I'm saying I need to know you keep an open mind and know how to deal with recovering as well as active alcoholics .. if you don't we need a different therapist .. there are behaviors that are bigger than just the communication .. if we communicated well .. we would still be married .. I want what's best for the kids at this point. So how do you suggest I handle communication with someone who may or may not be drinking. For me those statements pulled the therapist into this is what I deal with .. this is what's going on .. and if we can't work on the whole picture communication isn't happening .. what would you suggest if it were you. Those to me are all statements of facts. There's nothing personal attached.
You have a right to have an opinion and vocalize it .. it's not on you that she has a problem with it. Oh well ... LOL .. it is what it is .. it's more important that you find your voice. When I found my voice my X realized I was not the same woman he left. His attorney told him sit down shut up and pay attention.
Big big hugs .. it will get better over all .. this too shall pass .. and it doesn't help moving having resentments, having sorrows and so on. You are doing great and right where you need to be.
S :)
Thanks Serenity. I'm so grateful for this program and this group. I'm feeling a bit better in general but still having a tough time once in awhile. I read C2C today and the subject of self-pity was notable. That's something I've been on the lookout for as I fall into that trap sometimes. It can be tricky for me as I know that I am certainly still grieving and I need to allow for that, cut myself slack and talk with friends or sponsors about it. But there's allowing and then there's Wallowing which I never noticed until now are nearly the same word.
A red flag for me is when I'm talking to the fourth friend about the same issue or the same person about an issue more than once. It might mean I'm just still trying to work through an issue or I might be resisting letting go or seeking some validation. Anyway I'm going to go sit down with the kids and enjoy the present for a little bit.