Keeping distance from drama while trying to do the right thing by kids
Faintly Falling said
May 23, 2018
It has been a bit of a fraught time but, thankfully, there is light at the end of the tunnel. My BIL is moving to Dublin, back to his home town, and the kids are going. This is a great move for all of them as they are all city folk and have spent a good bit of time there. It is also where my BIL works so practical day-to-day life will be easier. They still need to finalise a school for my older nephew and childcare for my toddler nephew but I think it will all happen. My sister and he met here and had their first born here so it is like moving back home which is good. My niece, who is now 21, has just finished university in Dublin and has a job lined up. So the four of them will be there together which is good.
However, there is still a bit to go and I am constantly dealing with him. I have felt so much stress when dealing with my BIL. I find his behavior very hard to handle since our to-do about two months ago. I don't believe everything that he says as there are now so many examples of him saying one thing and reality being something else. I have considered that he is just overwhelmed and could, in fact, be suffering mental health-wise. The signs are there and the behavior is there. From my perspective it plays out as drama and delusional talk - I never know exactly what I'm dealing with. Two months ago he said they'd be gone in 6-8 weeks. Last weekend he told me they'd be gone in six weeks. His oldest daughter says that 'he keeps saying that'. I will have a conversation with him where he says 'will you take R (the toddler) on Sunday night for two nights'. I'll go through all the arrangements in my head and then, later, when I go to confirm the arrangements he will say 'No, I said A' who is 16 and that is a whole other routine change for me. I'm happy to take either of them or both together which I have been doing, often with little notice.
I have been finding it very hard to deal with the fact that he frequently says one thing and then I'll find out later that he meant another thing altogether. He gets very confused but, to anyone listening or looking on (including me), he appears coherent and fully on top of things. You will hear a long stream of plans and how he's taking care of everything. It will be delivered articulately in an extremely reassuring tone - but behind it the wheels seem to be coming off. For the past six weeks he has been saying that his mum has been diagnosed with dementia and he is doing his best to 'look after her and make sure she is ok'. But then I found out that her own doctor doesn't think that she has dementia. I talked it over with a family counsellor and she wondered if he 'likes to put on a show'. So I don't know if he's overwhelmed, has some kind of delusional mental illness or, as my husband says 'is full of BS'. I can tell you that it has really been affecting me. My other sister finds it all a bit hard to handle also.
The other day I read a Facebook post saying 'step away from the drama'. I thought, yes, that's what I want to do. But by me being available to mind the kids I am instantly feeling this drama. Most of it simply revolves around him saying/asking for one thing, me agreeing that I can help, then the arrangements being changed or finding out that he was referring to a different day or child.
Issues with my brother-in-law have been my main reason for posting here this last while. Someone once advised to treat him with kindness. I find this incredibly hard to do. I feel resistance to asking him how he is doing as I predict that I will get the long stream of words thing. If I am honest I just don't like listening to his BS. I am always offering to help with the kids and he will frequently ask me to step in or help (always with confusion!). If feel this is my duty to my sisters children. I also have offered to help with the move or with finding schools and creches in Dublin but he usually passes that off. I get it that it is his responsibility and he doesn't want an in-law poking their nose in or whatever. I respect that it is up to him what he wants to do and that it is up to him to make the choices for the family.
But I worry about the kids and in particular my 16-year-old nephew. He is bright and a joy to be around. However, like many teenagers, he spends a lot of time in his room on his phone or laptop. He is really into drag and we can all see that is lights up around this subject. This is all ok but I worry that if he is spending so much time alone and on Instagram he may develop unhealthy or unrealistic expectations of himself or his sexuality. They are moving away and I want to work on letting go. I know that the best I can do is stay in touch, invite him to stay etc. He knows that our home is his home whenever he wants. I guess there is not much I can do but be there for him.
So if I am so on top of all of this why am I so bothered? I can say that I worry that my BIL is slagging me off to his Dublin circle of friends and colleagues. I hear him talking about others saying that they 'are not particularly helpful'. I can hear him saying that about me. I tried to straight-talk to him a while back and he just lashed out. He is going through his own very tough time - he has lost his wife etc - and he is entitled to muddle through it whatever way works for him. But I can't help feeling that he can leave a wave of disdain after him. I have heard him talk very ungratefully of close friends and I know he talks to his daughter negatively about people. I can sometimes hear her talk in the same way. So I have concerns about how they will grow up. I really want to let go of these concerns and also what he may or may not say to others regarding me. I am so grateful that they are moving. I would love to get back to my life, my husband and my own children without these last minute calls and confusions etc.
Thanks for reading.
hotrod said
May 23, 2018
Hi Faintly Falling I hear your concerns and pain. Alanon face to face meetings can help as we have important tools such as detachment, slogans and prayer that help us stay inside our own true concerns and to allow others the dignity to do the same. Knowing that i am powerless over other helps greatly . You are not alone
Iamhere said
May 23, 2018
The closest experience I have to what you're BIL is going through is a very close gal pal lost her husband @ 38 to a heart attack. They had 5 young children and were very much in love and a well-working couple. They truly were soul-mates and the loss was so obvious in her as well as each of the children. I was not in Al-Anon yet, and also had many concerns mostly because she was so stuck in her grief that she wasn't truly able to care for the kids. Several of us pitched in as well as her family to get them all through the first few years. She will say to this day that she doesn't remember the entire first year after he died and most of the 2nd year.
I think grief is impossible to understand - in self and others. I just kept showing up every day because that's what I felt called to do. When I got frustrated, I took it to my sponsor (I was still in the other program) who would gently remind me that I was no longer on my side of the street. I was also gently reminded that being bitter about being of service is not the program way.
Since embracing Al-Anon, I don't have all the answers but I have a ton of additional tools that I can use to help me when I am left or right of center. I have worked the steps countless times on people, places and things that are affecting my serenity. What Betty says truly is what has worked for me too - remembering that I am powerless over others and have tools to detach, recenter and continue to move forward while being of service to others. I am so not responsible for how others view life, love, loss or others - I am only responsible for my own actions, thoughts, words and deeds and when they go low, I go high.....this has never failed me in recovery.
I am sure the thought of them moving on is hard. You've been great to your sister's kids and of service to your BIL. As we always say, trust the process and program and take things One Day at a Time - more is always revealed. Sending thoughts and prayers your way - (((Hugs))) too!
Bo said
May 24, 2018
In all my years in the rooms, this is one of the hardest topics to tackle. I've seen people who are fanatical program people struggle with this, not that fanatical program people are the absolute. I've always stood in the place of "there are no musts in alanon" and to each their own, hence, no right or wrong in alanon. One person's healthy may not be another person's.
So, that said, I can only tell you how I dealt with this with my own daughter and my ex. My experience is that as kids get older, it eventually becomes impossible to insulate them completely. Even if you were to insulate them to all of the behavior, consequences, etc. -- at a certain age, kids can "sense" the dynamic, the tone, the temperature, etc., between a mother and father. What compounds the complexity is that this is a multi-faceted dynamic. What do the kids "see" and "hear" as well as what do they "sense" of "feel" and then that is coupled by what does a parent tell them.
Here in the case of the OP, it's not a spouse. You have a BIL to deal with. Treating him with kindness, struggling with that, etc. -- that's on you. That is your role, your side of the street. That's why we go to alanon. We don't have to do the ask thing -- "asking him how he is doing" -- and sometimes in the rooms we hear, don't ask a question you really don't want the answer to, LOL. Or, don't ask a question if you are really not prepared for the answer -- one you may not believe, know is not true, or like. LOL. If there is a lot of BS going on -- our program tells us we can detach from the person, emotionally, physically, and we can detach from the drama, chaos, turmoil, and havoc. We can detach from whatever we chose. Perhaps he is passing off a lot of responsibility -- and perhaps you should look at that. Look at your role, your contribution. That happened to me...I was offering, volunteering, I was also being asked, and so on -- and guess what I found...ENABLING! I was the enabler. Not to drinking. Just enabling. We can enable, and perpetuate a situation, an unhealthy situation. If he chooses not to make choices for the family...that doesn't mean you have to.
So, the kids...kids are malleable sometimes. They sometimes adapt and react accordingly -- they withdraw, become depressed, use crutches, food, drugs, drinking, anything can happen. My daughter learned program on her own without knowing it was program. She learned first about acceptance. It was painful and had consequences, but she learned. She then learned about detachment and spent a lot of time out of the house, at friends' houses, etc. She kept learning and learning. In today's day and age, kids have become glued to social media, tech devices, etc. And they also have poor examples for them. When I went to my daughters' graduation ceremony, for her graduate degree, when they played the national anthem, a few seats away from me was a 11 year old kid who "took a knee". So, for your nephew -- you can be there for him, in a healthy and supportive way, talk to your BIL, but stay on your side of the street. Nothing changes if nothing changes. You control you. Not him. So, you change. For your nephew, yes, if appropriate, stay communicative, embrace him, invite him to stay, etc. Know your boundaries -- your side of the street.
Often, people who come into the rooms are "fixers" -- they are "rescuers" -- and they are "helpers" -- and it becomes our sickness. To a point, yes, beyond, no, it can be unhealthy. We get bothered when people don't do what we want them to do. We get bothered when they don't do it our way. We get bothered when people don't listen. And so on and so on...and so goes our disease. My sponsor once said, you can only do so much, before what you do gets unhealthy...and by that point, you have probably already done too much. Focus on you. Work with your sponsor. Accept the people you cannot change, the courage the change the one person you can...and the wisdom to know that person is YOU.
Faintly Falling said
May 27, 2018
Hi Hotrod, Iamhere and Bo
Thank you so much for your replies - I take great comfort in being heard and understood. I also appreciate your words of 'wisdom'. I went to an alanon meeting on Friday morning and I spoke about this forum and how there is such wisdom. I shared with them that I wanted to be like the sage wise people that I get advice from on the forum!!
I have actually been going to alanon meeting for 27 years off and on. I have never worked the program and have never had a sponsor! Meetings have not been an important part of my weekly or daily life but I have, in times of great need, gone for stints of about two or three months and then either moved countries or had counselling or something that led me to believe that I was ok. In more recent years I have been dealing with my family a lot - my sisters illness and death and now my parents who are simply getting older and need a reasonable amount of care etc. And of course my own spouse and brother-in-law, both of who grew up in alcoholic homes.
Somehow, after all this time, I feel the time is right to read, work the program and maybe eventually get a sponsor. I'm a little worried about the latter as a) you have to put yourself out there and actually ask for one (what if no-one wants to be a sponsor to me?) and b) what if I get the offer of a sponsor from someone I think is a bit nuts (the main lady in my group seems to want to help everyone. she is a little crazy which I think is fair to say. For example, I was trying to decide between the orange book and Hope for Today and she said that Hope for Today was 'loaded'. I asked her what she meant but her reply was vague (I think its a great little book and will pay for that one first). So I get that we are all not perfect but having the right sponsor is probably an important thing to get right?
Anyway, the main point is that I am ready to work the program and I feel great about that. Thank you again for your listening, encouragement and words of experience. And I love the advice to stay on my side of the street. I also read a reply to someone elses post and I think one of you mentioned about not using 'you' statements so that is particularly helpful at the moment. Thank you. XXX
hotrod said
May 27, 2018
Hi Faintly Falling, I am glad that you are considering "working the program " as it certainly did save my sanity and life.
Please fo keep coming back and sharing your wisdom and experience.
Iamhere said
May 27, 2018
Hey FF - great on you for finding courage and getting to a meeting. There is no better time than this day, just today, to consider what is good for you. I too am glad you are considering leaning into recovery. Like Betty, I believe it did save my life and restore me to sanity. I am glad you are a part of my journey.
As far as sponsorship, it's like all else in life/recovery - if it's not feeling good, keep an open mind and trust the process. I've had a couple different sponsors at different times depending upon 'life', growth, etc. My experience is it's my effort to be in recovery and work the program that matters most for growth not necessarily one aspect only. Just do the best you can, one day at a time, and see what happens.
Keep coming back - you are worth it and there is hope and help in recovery!!
It has been a bit of a fraught time but, thankfully, there is light at the end of the tunnel. My BIL is moving to Dublin, back to his home town, and the kids are going. This is a great move for all of them as they are all city folk and have spent a good bit of time there. It is also where my BIL works so practical day-to-day life will be easier. They still need to finalise a school for my older nephew and childcare for my toddler nephew but I think it will all happen. My sister and he met here and had their first born here so it is like moving back home which is good. My niece, who is now 21, has just finished university in Dublin and has a job lined up. So the four of them will be there together which is good.
However, there is still a bit to go and I am constantly dealing with him. I have felt so much stress when dealing with my BIL. I find his behavior very hard to handle since our to-do about two months ago. I don't believe everything that he says as there are now so many examples of him saying one thing and reality being something else. I have considered that he is just overwhelmed and could, in fact, be suffering mental health-wise. The signs are there and the behavior is there. From my perspective it plays out as drama and delusional talk - I never know exactly what I'm dealing with. Two months ago he said they'd be gone in 6-8 weeks. Last weekend he told me they'd be gone in six weeks. His oldest daughter says that 'he keeps saying that'. I will have a conversation with him where he says 'will you take R (the toddler) on Sunday night for two nights'. I'll go through all the arrangements in my head and then, later, when I go to confirm the arrangements he will say 'No, I said A' who is 16 and that is a whole other routine change for me. I'm happy to take either of them or both together which I have been doing, often with little notice.
I have been finding it very hard to deal with the fact that he frequently says one thing and then I'll find out later that he meant another thing altogether. He gets very confused but, to anyone listening or looking on (including me), he appears coherent and fully on top of things. You will hear a long stream of plans and how he's taking care of everything. It will be delivered articulately in an extremely reassuring tone - but behind it the wheels seem to be coming off. For the past six weeks he has been saying that his mum has been diagnosed with dementia and he is doing his best to 'look after her and make sure she is ok'. But then I found out that her own doctor doesn't think that she has dementia. I talked it over with a family counsellor and she wondered if he 'likes to put on a show'. So I don't know if he's overwhelmed, has some kind of delusional mental illness or, as my husband says 'is full of BS'. I can tell you that it has really been affecting me. My other sister finds it all a bit hard to handle also.
The other day I read a Facebook post saying 'step away from the drama'. I thought, yes, that's what I want to do. But by me being available to mind the kids I am instantly feeling this drama. Most of it simply revolves around him saying/asking for one thing, me agreeing that I can help, then the arrangements being changed or finding out that he was referring to a different day or child.
Issues with my brother-in-law have been my main reason for posting here this last while. Someone once advised to treat him with kindness. I find this incredibly hard to do. I feel resistance to asking him how he is doing as I predict that I will get the long stream of words thing. If I am honest I just don't like listening to his BS. I am always offering to help with the kids and he will frequently ask me to step in or help (always with confusion!). If feel this is my duty to my sisters children. I also have offered to help with the move or with finding schools and creches in Dublin but he usually passes that off. I get it that it is his responsibility and he doesn't want an in-law poking their nose in or whatever. I respect that it is up to him what he wants to do and that it is up to him to make the choices for the family.
But I worry about the kids and in particular my 16-year-old nephew. He is bright and a joy to be around. However, like many teenagers, he spends a lot of time in his room on his phone or laptop. He is really into drag and we can all see that is lights up around this subject. This is all ok but I worry that if he is spending so much time alone and on Instagram he may develop unhealthy or unrealistic expectations of himself or his sexuality. They are moving away and I want to work on letting go. I know that the best I can do is stay in touch, invite him to stay etc. He knows that our home is his home whenever he wants. I guess there is not much I can do but be there for him.
So if I am so on top of all of this why am I so bothered? I can say that I worry that my BIL is slagging me off to his Dublin circle of friends and colleagues. I hear him talking about others saying that they 'are not particularly helpful'. I can hear him saying that about me. I tried to straight-talk to him a while back and he just lashed out. He is going through his own very tough time - he has lost his wife etc - and he is entitled to muddle through it whatever way works for him. But I can't help feeling that he can leave a wave of disdain after him. I have heard him talk very ungratefully of close friends and I know he talks to his daughter negatively about people. I can sometimes hear her talk in the same way. So I have concerns about how they will grow up. I really want to let go of these concerns and also what he may or may not say to others regarding me. I am so grateful that they are moving. I would love to get back to my life, my husband and my own children without these last minute calls and confusions etc.
Thanks for reading.
Hi Faintly Falling I hear your concerns and pain. Alanon face to face meetings can help as we have important tools such as detachment, slogans and prayer that help us stay inside our own true concerns and to allow others the dignity to do the same.
Knowing that i am powerless over other helps greatly . You are not alone
I think grief is impossible to understand - in self and others. I just kept showing up every day because that's what I felt called to do. When I got frustrated, I took it to my sponsor (I was still in the other program) who would gently remind me that I was no longer on my side of the street. I was also gently reminded that being bitter about being of service is not the program way.
Since embracing Al-Anon, I don't have all the answers but I have a ton of additional tools that I can use to help me when I am left or right of center. I have worked the steps countless times on people, places and things that are affecting my serenity. What Betty says truly is what has worked for me too - remembering that I am powerless over others and have tools to detach, recenter and continue to move forward while being of service to others. I am so not responsible for how others view life, love, loss or others - I am only responsible for my own actions, thoughts, words and deeds and when they go low, I go high.....this has never failed me in recovery.
I am sure the thought of them moving on is hard. You've been great to your sister's kids and of service to your BIL. As we always say, trust the process and program and take things One Day at a Time - more is always revealed. Sending thoughts and prayers your way - (((Hugs))) too!
So, that said, I can only tell you how I dealt with this with my own daughter and my ex. My experience is that as kids get older, it eventually becomes impossible to insulate them completely. Even if you were to insulate them to all of the behavior, consequences, etc. -- at a certain age, kids can "sense" the dynamic, the tone, the temperature, etc., between a mother and father. What compounds the complexity is that this is a multi-faceted dynamic. What do the kids "see" and "hear" as well as what do they "sense" of "feel" and then that is coupled by what does a parent tell them.
Here in the case of the OP, it's not a spouse. You have a BIL to deal with. Treating him with kindness, struggling with that, etc. -- that's on you. That is your role, your side of the street. That's why we go to alanon. We don't have to do the ask thing -- "asking him how he is doing" -- and sometimes in the rooms we hear, don't ask a question you really don't want the answer to, LOL. Or, don't ask a question if you are really not prepared for the answer -- one you may not believe, know is not true, or like. LOL. If there is a lot of BS going on -- our program tells us we can detach from the person, emotionally, physically, and we can detach from the drama, chaos, turmoil, and havoc. We can detach from whatever we chose. Perhaps he is passing off a lot of responsibility -- and perhaps you should look at that. Look at your role, your contribution. That happened to me...I was offering, volunteering, I was also being asked, and so on -- and guess what I found...ENABLING! I was the enabler. Not to drinking. Just enabling. We can enable, and perpetuate a situation, an unhealthy situation. If he chooses not to make choices for the family...that doesn't mean you have to.
So, the kids...kids are malleable sometimes. They sometimes adapt and react accordingly -- they withdraw, become depressed, use crutches, food, drugs, drinking, anything can happen. My daughter learned program on her own without knowing it was program. She learned first about acceptance. It was painful and had consequences, but she learned. She then learned about detachment and spent a lot of time out of the house, at friends' houses, etc. She kept learning and learning. In today's day and age, kids have become glued to social media, tech devices, etc. And they also have poor examples for them. When I went to my daughters' graduation ceremony, for her graduate degree, when they played the national anthem, a few seats away from me was a 11 year old kid who "took a knee". So, for your nephew -- you can be there for him, in a healthy and supportive way, talk to your BIL, but stay on your side of the street. Nothing changes if nothing changes. You control you. Not him. So, you change. For your nephew, yes, if appropriate, stay communicative, embrace him, invite him to stay, etc. Know your boundaries -- your side of the street.
Often, people who come into the rooms are "fixers" -- they are "rescuers" -- and they are "helpers" -- and it becomes our sickness. To a point, yes, beyond, no, it can be unhealthy. We get bothered when people don't do what we want them to do. We get bothered when they don't do it our way. We get bothered when people don't listen. And so on and so on...and so goes our disease. My sponsor once said, you can only do so much, before what you do gets unhealthy...and by that point, you have probably already done too much. Focus on you. Work with your sponsor. Accept the people you cannot change, the courage the change the one person you can...and the wisdom to know that person is YOU.
Thank you so much for your replies - I take great comfort in being heard and understood. I also appreciate your words of 'wisdom'. I went to an alanon meeting on Friday morning and I spoke about this forum and how there is such wisdom. I shared with them that I wanted to be like the sage wise people that I get advice from on the forum!!
I have actually been going to alanon meeting for 27 years off and on. I have never worked the program and have never had a sponsor! Meetings have not been an important part of my weekly or daily life but I have, in times of great need, gone for stints of about two or three months and then either moved countries or had counselling or something that led me to believe that I was ok. In more recent years I have been dealing with my family a lot - my sisters illness and death and now my parents who are simply getting older and need a reasonable amount of care etc. And of course my own spouse and brother-in-law, both of who grew up in alcoholic homes.
Somehow, after all this time, I feel the time is right to read, work the program and maybe eventually get a sponsor. I'm a little worried about the latter as a) you have to put yourself out there and actually ask for one (what if no-one wants to be a sponsor to me?) and b) what if I get the offer of a sponsor from someone I think is a bit nuts (the main lady in my group seems to want to help everyone. she is a little crazy which I think is fair to say. For example, I was trying to decide between the orange book and Hope for Today and she said that Hope for Today was 'loaded'. I asked her what she meant but her reply was vague (I think its a great little book and will pay for that one first). So I get that we are all not perfect but having the right sponsor is probably an important thing to get right?
Anyway, the main point is that I am ready to work the program and I feel great about that. Thank you again for your listening, encouragement and words of experience. And I love the advice to stay on my side of the street. I also read a reply to someone elses post and I think one of you mentioned about not using 'you' statements so that is particularly helpful at the moment. Thank you. XXX
Please fo keep coming back and sharing your wisdom and experience.
As far as sponsorship, it's like all else in life/recovery - if it's not feeling good, keep an open mind and trust the process. I've had a couple different sponsors at different times depending upon 'life', growth, etc. My experience is it's my effort to be in recovery and work the program that matters most for growth not necessarily one aspect only. Just do the best you can, one day at a time, and see what happens.
Keep coming back - you are worth it and there is hope and help in recovery!!