Hi everyone. I've lurked, read, left, come back and on and on. The denial thing or ............maybe not. Thus the reason for the lurking. It can be a nice place to be at times and more so when on overload with chores, and other daily life happenings. I saw on the post, "do's and don'ts for newbies" and what really stuck out for me most, was not to be discouraged over mistakes I make in regards to the A's in my life. I should extend that to not be discouraged over thinking I can do this and get it right all the time if I keep reading, etc. These things are going to happen. Pondering if being in denial mode in regards to AH, or ignoring mode may cause harm? It's been really peaceful for some time now so I guess I'll keep pondering until the answer is clear.
Earlier I was thinking of that game where the mole pops up. It used to be on TV. OC said the name of it was "Whack A Mole" LOL. This reminds me of what it is like living with alcoholics/addicts in my life. (I'm a double winner and that can make me overly anal about everything!) Seriously, as soon as one takes off and starts doing better.......another one or two pop up. What's interesting is not all are the same and each calls for handling the crisis in a different way. But for self these days it means taking care of self first (alanon) or this self can mess up everything!
Sooooooo, the other night, AH came home. I am getting used to typing AH vs DH. He tore into me out of the blue over things that were so off the wall I was stunned, heartbroken and in a daze that wasn't good for a day before it started letting up. He also doesn't remember this which is new. He's not had blackouts until the other night. For some crazy reason I expected him to be wobbling and so forth to have a blackout.....when I know better. I didn't say too much. In fact, I just did the "be nice" thing. Honestly it was so crazy I thought seriously of leaving him. More wisdom will unfold after more meetings and more work on me.
The next day, I started a search. I have known he keeps a bottle in his truck. Also that I can smell the alcohol from across the room when he gets home from work. Well, I found alcohol hidden all over the house. It took awhile to remember just how sneaky alcoholics can be. My thoughts were, he's not an alcoholic because he goes through a week or more at times without drinking anything. He doesn't drink at work unless it's a meeting with the guys for lunch........and he stays up late to "unwind" and just doesn't want to have alcohol in my face.....hmmmmmmmmm.... light bulbs going off for sure. And he's always been pretty nice when he drinks....with the exception of those "sometimes" the mouth gets going. But, nothing like it did the other night. The next day I texted him when I was angry and told him if he was going to drink, drink all he wanted but he better never lay into me like that again and if he had something to say he better get his facts straight. NOT WISE.
My 34 year old son had 4, nested 18 ft stock tanks (galvanized steel) fall on him at work months ago. Workmans comp will not cover his need for injecting cement into his back for a fracture. They told him it was due to his "degeneration" and he has to sue them to get help. They did send him to PT and give him a second opinion 6 hours away. The doc said it's not good. He's a workaholic and the "beer" helps the pain....I've been pretty focused on living the program with my attention on my interaction (letting go and not lecturing on the alcohol etc) with him until the other wake up call hit.
I got a real attitude (resentment) over the distance of f2f meetings I need to deal with asap. It didn't hit till I was determined to get to a meeting and cannot find the time to do this. This is part of self care. Hmmm. I remember all too well the fellowship, coffee, birthday meetings and just being a part of while going through what life throws your way. I miss it. I'm a double winner and since moving from one state to the other, it's even a challenge getting to the store and back. Rural here and have been where I used to live all my life. I am seriously open to change and do face these things with baby steps but..... the stress of the traffic and that many hours in the car (hopefully just til on the other side of PT) do a number on the ability to get anything else done later. Which causes more stress. Getting to a meeting isn't the hard part, finding time, (and I start physical therapy for my back on Monday, yayy, very grateful! I finally have insurace!! And hope for returning to work) WITH the time to also get together with the other members is where I get stuck. I searched out all daytime meetings and the closest one says over an hour....I've only been to one in the city I went to years back when I was temporarily living close by waiting on a place to get out of the city. aThat was a great meeting but a nightmare getting there in less than 1 1/2 hours. It is so strange being so far away and city traffic......at the same time I think it is something I really need in my life. I know I am on my pity pot about this meeting issue. And, maybe, just maybe by being more a part of vs lurking, and going to the meetings here online, it will just all work out great.
Other than that, I'm seriously in a very good place considering all that is going on. I'm really sort of blown away that I didn't have a total meltdown. Those that take forever to get out of and the shape I was in before finding MIP! I hit a total bottom for a tad over a day. Not a good place to be. But, putting on music, prayer and reading the books just helped put things in perspective. That is thanks to my HP. working this program and all the great shares. Maybe I didn't want to see what was right in front of me. I do question another area I am sure to learn in time too........do I want to live my life never being able to trust my spouse.......maybe this is where trust in HP vs him needs a lot of work.......it scares the wits out of me for him. Another area of needing to trust more......The latter part of all of this is FEAR. That if I don't do everything just right.........this disease may take another loved one to the grave and that......makes me want to run. I didnt cause it, can't cure it or control it, I can mix those words up as many times as I like, and they all come out the same way.... More work to do on self big time. Wow, did I ever ramble on!
Hugs to everyone and thanks for listening.
hotrod said
May 12, 2018
((Tude)) detachment and acceptance work for me This is a dreadful disease
Aline said
May 12, 2018
Hugs, (((Tude))), I hope you do get to meetings f2f... There's heaps on your plate now, and Its really good to hear that you are handling it with a great deal of grace. Keep reaching out... Take care of yourself.
Mattie said
May 12, 2018
Hugs back atcha, Tude. Remember that there are meetings on this site. I know it's not the same as f2f (except the people here are awesome!). And I did have the thought that if you moved to where your closest f2f meetings are, you'd be near them and not near people who don't remember how they blasted you the day before. But that's not for me to decide and I don't know all your situation, obviously! Lots of variables, lots of stuff going on, I know. But nobody should have to go through this craziness without maximum support. Glad you posted here and hope you'll keep coming back.
Iamhere said
May 12, 2018
(((Hugs))) Tude - your share reminded me how cunning, baffling and powerful this disease truly is. Sending you positive thoughts and prayers! The meetings here are awesome - just FYI! And, like Mattie says, it's not the same as the F2F but they are an awesome way to start the day...
Jerry F said
May 12, 2018
((((Tude)))) You do have a "situation" you have put your attention to and can see what you are up against for the moment and you do have lots of awareness and experience being a double winner. Double winning is a huge asset as we get the ESH from both programs and then learn how to apply it in any situation. That is what I am very grateful for being also in the same situation. I get lots of recovery to listen to and watch and follow and my Higher Power always leads me to meet more.
Acceptance is the solution all my problems is a truth for me today and when I practice it and stop fighting the consequences of not doing that I find relaxation and peace. My spirit gets quiet and I can be nudged by better thinking and possibilities. As far as meetings go? Locally we have lots of doubles who know our disease and are able to discus and use the principles of Al-Anon to get sane. Reach out and invited and ask them if they would like to start a meeting with you and contact World Service (Al-Anon) for the literature on how to start a meeting. .growth for you and for others.
Honestly you do have a situation which is also known as a life threatening fatal disease. You also have assets to share; your ESH and MIP and more. I am in support. Keep coming back. ((((hugs))))
Tude said
May 13, 2018
Good morning and thank you everyone for your support and ESH!!
While I can't move......yet......(IF able to return to work I'll be close by all my old support groups) I do love the suggestion too about asking someone to start a group closer!! I never thought of that before. It also takes the pressure off of the "what ifs" in the sense of if I do work over half a year down south. I got over into projection in this area too. Sheeesh! What a great idea!!
In the meantime I will scope out more meetings and see who knows who etc. and go to online meetings :)
I would like to share a few things my HP has used to change my life in this program. I woke up grateful and just mulled it all over. Yes, I will forever be learning. But I also see the miracle in all this too. For all the complaining I do, today seems a good day to share some changes since beginning on MIP in December? Sorry, memory is a bit of a fog on dates pre-alanon:
I don't wake up each morning with a dread of "oh no, another day."
My house is clean! For some that may seem a small thing. I am a neat freak and it got so bad I couldn't think of literally where anything went, where I put anything and had NO energy to get the thing clean and keep it clean. I wake up to a neat home these days.
My HP had me go on a fast. During that time my mind cleared up and I realized my thyroid meds had stopped working. My doc raised the dose and is also now working with me on physical therapy to see if I can get back to work with no back surgery. I have insurance for the first time in ages! That is all my HP! The lengths I have gone to in the health area without letting up on it this time are from what I am learning in Alanon. Stress does dreadful things......
As for the boundaries, I know everyone differs on this area when a double winner. The only boundary that is back in reinforcement is the no alcohol in the house. Even if it's hidden. The cunning, baffling and powerful bit me in the past. I do not want a repeat ever again and yes, it was due to alcohol in the home that was "hidden." I lost 17 years.....If AH doesn't care for that boundary, he can be single. I don't think that is too harsh. That is not telling him he can't drink, he just can't have it here in the home. It was a bit scary to reset this due to worrying about possibilities of drinking and driving and so forth. And, I am a bit on edge with it but am working on fully leaving it in my HP's hands and not my own. Work....... and then some. Still, I am grateful today and it is so much easier to "live and let live" with this fellowship than it has been in ages!
Have a great day everyone and thank you again for all your suggestions and encouragement. They are all good and hit home!
hotrod said
May 13, 2018
Tude I have started a meeting and it was simple. You can contact alanon WSO for guidelines and ask around schools or hospitals for a meeting room then we can talk about the next move Good luck
Tude said
May 13, 2018
Betty, thank you.
I will have a concrete answer on this after 4-6 weeks of PT. Maybe less? I honestly don't know at this point. I've been unable to work for a few physical reasons since the end of 2010. Each day has been a good step forward. From what I've read on physical therapy these days vs last stint 14 lol, they can do so much more than what they were able to do before. I do have my hopes VERY high about returning to work. If this does happen I will be spending over half the year down south and a little less than half here. H and I work well together this way. We met this way and continued until health issues.
I am hesitant to jump out asap until I know a bit more. I would hate to start a group and just leave. Am I thinking this thru correctly? I've started other 12 step meetings before. No issues with moving etc but am not near as familiar with Alanon. Is it easy to get someone else to open and so forth if I do start one?
hotrod said
May 13, 2018
Tude remember this is a fellowship of equals and once we start a meeting a Busines meeting will elect officers and it is now simply an alanon meeting. I hope you feel better soon
Tude said
May 13, 2018
Thank you and yes. :) Getting there and and then some. You just dropped a powerful suggestion in the sense of my worrying about someone else not showing up to open and close doors. So basically if all is stated upfront, then it puts responsibility back on the other person(s) during that time frame. Gotta love it, coda just popping out all over ROFL! That's ok too. One on one person here until stretched. I love it when anyone but self chairs, when I just make coffee and clean up.......perhaps one day the glue will wear off the wallflower for good:D
Dutchy said
May 13, 2018
I love the 'whack a mole' comparison!! It's so true. W'e're basically hitting our heads against a brick wall again and again.
I cannot go to face to face meetings either with 3 small children and a recovering husband living at his mums but I find this space, right here a real lifesaver! I com here every day. Sometimes I may be able to offer some support and when I need support there is always someone awake to help me out.
I have individual therapy which is really helping me a lot with my co dependency and other issues of living with an abusive AH and I have ordered Courage to Change which I am hoping will teach me a lot.
Like you I am also a neat freak and it really helps me to keep the routine of the girls going, my routine going and keeping up with friends. I am glad I never hid my husbands disease and so was able to talk to friends and find refuge for me and the kids when I needed it.
tiredtonite said
May 13, 2018
Thanks for sharing (((Tude))) If it was a "ramble" as you said, it certainly had lots of great Alanon takeaways for me. I understand your desire to get back to f2f meetings. I love our online meeting family too but when I'm away from f2f awhile and then go back it feels like being welcomed home. It's a very good feeling.
I appreciated all the reminders about powerlessness and taking things one day at a time. My exah was highly functional for a long time until all of a sudden one day he wasn't. It's really something how that can really creep up on you. Yes, they can be very sneaky hiding bottles and cherrypicking their times to use when they want to avoid arguments over the drinking/drugging. I hope you're husband finds his way but am glad you are here sharing the recovery road with me. We can be happy whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not. Wishing your son the best of care for his back. Odaat huh. (((hugs))) TT
Tude said
May 14, 2018
Dutchy I sooooooooooo agree and will totally say MIP and this group is what my HP used to literally give me my life back! My weakest area (from what I can see for now lol) is isolating since moving here. Thus the push for finding a meeting and trying to push myself past this. I guess limitations/weak areas and fears are a challenge to try to overcome?
tt.......seriously, this has been at the back of my mind but it really is so very sneaky how my mind can just shut things like this out! I am so grateful for this program there are no words to even put down here!
HR, I am praying about starting a group. One day at a time. The more I think of others who may be out here in this position too........therefore, praying very hard about this. :)
(((hugs))))
Bo said
May 15, 2018
What resonates with me is the "mistakes I make in regards to the A's in my life." I feel this is a very interesting and thought provoking topic -- especially when you are dealing with a situation where you "still" have the alcoholic in your life. However, to each their own. Perhaps there are those who don't find it interesting or thought provoking. For me, I always, always, always, needed help and support to -- not beat myself up! Go gentle unto yourself. I do not live my life in the rear-view mirror. I live my life looking and moving forward, today and forward. I've always said -- there's a reason why the rear-view mirror is so small and the windshield is so big. I have my slips, unhealthy thoughts, the little inquiries I want to make, the things I want to know, the opinions I want to give, and so on and so on. I found myself in a unique situation -- unique in that I asked a lot of people and didn't find many who experienced this -- where I thought I was actually in denial. I thought I was in this mode of constantly finding reasons, justifying, rationalizing, vacillating, etc., why I was staying in my marriage, with my alcoholic/drug addict wife. But I wasn't sure. Was it denial, or was it something else? Was I making excuses? Was it fear, and the fear was winning and keeping me in this maze of denial? Or, was I having compassion, one day at a time, waiting to see if she would find recovery? How long do I wait? Should I stay? Should I leave? For me, with the help, guidance, and support of a sponsor, and with objectivity and accountability, I was able to see the real truth, the real reality. And then it was easy.
I became an observer only of my wife. I detached physically and emotionally from her when she was drinking or intoxicated. I didn't expect anything any longer or wonder about what she was doing, why, what does this mean, should I confront her, what about the marriage, etc. I waited. I watched. I let go.
For me, it didn't matter whether or not she was an alcoholic. While this isn't an official, conference approved al-anon forum -- in al-anon, conference approved meetings, they say that if someone's drinking bothers you, then, "you are in the right place" so to speak. If someone's drinking bothers you -- then you qualify to be in al-anon. To me, it didn't matter whether she was nice or not when she drank. Meaningless. Meant nothing. She wasn't present. She could not be connected to me, and to a meaningful, real conversation. That is what meant something to me. It meant a lot.
In the end...for me...it was not a matter of trying to figure out "how can I live without her"...but a matter of facing the reality that "I can't live with her." That sounds difficult, but, in reality, after doing all the work in al-anon, it was easy. Is this the life I want to live? Is this how I want to live my life? Nothing changes if nothing changes.
As far as starting a meeting...piece of cake...go online to world services, and call your local information services office. Good luck.
Tude said
May 16, 2018
I love what you shared Bo. I did ask myself if this is how I want to live. And boy, am I in the perfect place to find that out. What you said about whether what they say is nice or not.......and that it is meaningless, she wasn't present.....is spot on. My hats off to you. You've got great recovery in the fact you can let the words said just do what they really are.........the alcohol talking. Funny how we can know this but it can still just bowl me over! It's a durn good thing I am here. Much work to do in that area and the not taking it personally etc.
The bottom line is, really just a matter of fact, no emotions that are off the wall.........is this how I want to live. For now I choose to stay and love, but in doing so looking at my own part in all of this daily. Keep going forward. And....most of all keep in this fellowship!
Hugs!!
bud said
May 18, 2018
((((Tude)))) Thank you for this heartfelt share full of great reminders and inspiration. Cunning, baffling, and powerful indeed!
I have so many opportunities to practice not trying to or expecting myself to be perfect. The moment something doesn't go my way, it's my tendency to jump to the conclusion that I wasn't good enough or did something wrong or less perfect. I know most things aren't personal. It's just that if I could only control happy endings for all (I'd be dangerous with a magic wand lol).
This thread provided relief as I realize that I seat-belted myself into that old, unhealthy pattern of self-blame.
I'm glad I don't have to be perfect. I am not perfect and that's perfectly ok.
Bo said
May 18, 2018
Tude, thank you so much for sharing -- genuine, straight from the heart, no BS, etc. I thought through what you said, and the interesting thing for me is the dynamic, the interaction between "us" and the alcoholic(s). I don't portray it's an us vs. them thing, however, many times when confronted with my intoxicated alcoholic spouse, I just so intensely feel her thriving on the confrontation, the adversarial tone, the back and forth. Whether it was her motives to push my buttons, or just because that's what she does, or because she was thriving on it -- it doesn't matter. It was her driving that boat. Reason and motive unimportant. When I was a newcomer/beginner, I constantly tried to figure that out. Why? What's her motives, what does it mean, what is she trying to do, to accomplish, and so on and so on. The present thing -- that's why I ended my marriage. Yes, many other things as well, but that was the one thing that was so meaningful, so important -- to both of us -- the entire time we were together. When she could no longer be present, connected, substantially part of an important discussion or conversation, or allow us to be together and just connect, just to talk -- then a major ingredient in our marriage was gone.
To me, it's KEEP IT SIMPLE. She doesn't control what I think. No one can push my buttons...why? Because I choose whether or not to allow my buttons to be in a position to be pushed. My diffuser, my closed ended statement, my end reply was...I am sorry you feel that way. And I would not continue with whatever was going on. I might have had to leave the house for a few hours, but so what...for not being aggravated, for not getting a migraine, I'll do it every single day! LOL. After I got better, when I got real strong program under me -- nothing she said annoyed or angered me. I was sad, because what started to see what that what she was saying was her only outlet, her only release. She had to lash out. She had to attack. It was her way of medicating -- getting rid of her anger. Anger at herself, but never directed at herself. Sad. But for me, it was about me getting better.
I asked a double winner last night, "how long have you been clean and sober now?" He replied, "you know, it's been 37 years." Ironically, he asked me "so how long have you been clean and sober?" I immediately, with no hesitation said "24 hours." He said "what did you do last night?" and I told him I asked a question I shouldn't have asked. Is that a big deal? Am I being to hard on myself? Yes, no, doesn't matter. I want to be clean and sober from my ex. Period. I don't want to allow her, her life, her activities, etc., to live in my head rent free...and I have chosen to not rent space to them at all! LOL. But my daughter said something, it triggered something, and I asked a question. I thought about it, and asked the question in an innocent way. To make it look like I wasn't interested...but I was. I slipped. I let it go and moved on...and enjoyed the rest of the meal with the most wonderful young lady and daughter I could have NEVER imagined and hoped for.
So...for me...my recovery...is about my sobriety...practice these principles in ALL my affairs. Great advice. Oh, right, in alanon, we don't give advice. LOL. Have a great day all.
Tude said
May 19, 2018
Bud, you just said it. No unhealthy pattern of self blame and I don't have to be perfect!!!
Bo, this is where I went but thanks to ya'll and this program.........didn't stay.......you said: I just so intensely feel her thriving on the confrontation, the adversarial tone, the back and forth. Whether it was her motives to push my buttons, or just because that's what she does, or because she was thriving on it -- it doesn't matter. It was her driving that boat. Reason and motive unimportant.
That one caught me off guard big time. I was used to it with my ex. It was just normal and when things because too abusive, I left. This relationship is now over 10 years and the "new" gloating in anger....etc all pushed my buttons. I can sure say if not for this program, (some of it many years ago and even then, I didn't work it as I am this time back in) I would just be totally in an emotional funk. I used to get angry, etc, all the unhealthy emotions. I too want to be clean and sober from my ex and what a great experience you had in your conversation with the old timer!!
All in a nutshell, it made the way for the great time with your daughter:)
The biggest area I am working on at the present is fear. Not tied into my AH but it is tied in.....I've been dependent due to health issues and that scares me. The self care part I am doing is everything in my power emotionally, physically (In PT and eating properly) and spiritually. Not necessarily in that order but they are all so important. I want to be self sufficient again. It has been one huge roller coaster and yet the ride hasn't been that bad. When the pain gets too high to do more than try to get comfortable on heat.......the crazy committee in my head gets going on the "what if's." This is another area I am learning the tools from this program also apply! That "sinking feeling and fear" begin to lift and are replaced by hope again.
So just for this 24 hours I will be kind to me, read all your shares, let go and let God.
Hi everyone. I've lurked, read, left, come back and on and on. The denial thing or ............maybe not. Thus the reason for the lurking. It can be a nice place to be at times and more so when on overload with chores, and other daily life happenings. I saw on the post, "do's and don'ts for newbies" and what really stuck out for me most, was not to be discouraged over mistakes I make in regards to the A's in my life. I should extend that to not be discouraged over thinking I can do this and get it right all the time if I keep reading, etc. These things are going to happen. Pondering if being in denial mode in regards to AH, or ignoring mode may cause harm? It's been really peaceful for some time now so I guess I'll keep pondering until the answer is clear.
Earlier I was thinking of that game where the mole pops up. It used to be on TV. OC said the name of it was "Whack A Mole" LOL. This reminds me of what it is like living with alcoholics/addicts in my life. (I'm a double winner and that can make me overly anal about everything!) Seriously, as soon as one takes off and starts doing better.......another one or two pop up. What's interesting is not all are the same and each calls for handling the crisis in a different way. But for self these days it means taking care of self first (alanon) or this self can mess up everything!
Sooooooo, the other night, AH came home. I am getting used to typing AH vs DH. He tore into me out of the blue over things that were so off the wall I was stunned, heartbroken and in a daze that wasn't good for a day before it started letting up. He also doesn't remember this which is new. He's not had blackouts until the other night. For some crazy reason I expected him to be wobbling and so forth to have a blackout.....when I know better. I didn't say too much. In fact, I just did the "be nice" thing. Honestly it was so crazy I thought seriously of leaving him. More wisdom will unfold after more meetings and more work on me.
The next day, I started a search. I have known he keeps a bottle in his truck. Also that I can smell the alcohol from across the room when he gets home from work. Well, I found alcohol hidden all over the house. It took awhile to remember just how sneaky alcoholics can be. My thoughts were, he's not an alcoholic because he goes through a week or more at times without drinking anything. He doesn't drink at work unless it's a meeting with the guys for lunch........and he stays up late to "unwind" and just doesn't want to have alcohol in my face.....hmmmmmmmmm.... light bulbs going off for sure. And he's always been pretty nice when he drinks....with the exception of those "sometimes" the mouth gets going. But, nothing like it did the other night. The next day I texted him when I was angry and told him if he was going to drink, drink all he wanted but he better never lay into me like that again and if he had something to say he better get his facts straight. NOT WISE.
My 34 year old son had 4, nested 18 ft stock tanks (galvanized steel) fall on him at work months ago. Workmans comp will not cover his need for injecting cement into his back for a fracture. They told him it was due to his "degeneration" and he has to sue them to get help. They did send him to PT and give him a second opinion 6 hours away. The doc said it's not good. He's a workaholic and the "beer" helps the pain....I've been pretty focused on living the program with my attention on my interaction (letting go and not lecturing on the alcohol etc) with him until the other wake up call hit.
I got a real attitude (resentment) over the distance of f2f meetings I need to deal with asap. It didn't hit till I was determined to get to a meeting and cannot find the time to do this. This is part of self care. Hmmm. I remember all too well the fellowship, coffee, birthday meetings and just being a part of while going through what life throws your way. I miss it. I'm a double winner and since moving from one state to the other, it's even a challenge getting to the store and back. Rural here and have been where I used to live all my life. I am seriously open to change and do face these things with baby steps but..... the stress of the traffic and that many hours in the car (hopefully just til on the other side of PT) do a number on the ability to get anything else done later. Which causes more stress. Getting to a meeting isn't the hard part, finding time, (and I start physical therapy for my back on Monday, yayy, very grateful! I finally have insurace!! And hope for returning to work) WITH the time to also get together with the other members is where I get stuck. I searched out all daytime meetings and the closest one says over an hour....I've only been to one in the city I went to years back when I was temporarily living close by waiting on a place to get out of the city. aThat was a great meeting but a nightmare getting there in less than 1 1/2 hours. It is so strange being so far away and city traffic......at the same time I think it is something I really need in my life. I know I am on my pity pot about this meeting issue. And, maybe, just maybe by being more a part of vs lurking, and going to the meetings here online, it will just all work out great.
Other than that, I'm seriously in a very good place considering all that is going on. I'm really sort of blown away that I didn't have a total meltdown. Those that take forever to get out of and the shape I was in before finding MIP! I hit a total bottom for a tad over a day. Not a good place to be. But, putting on music, prayer and reading the books just helped put things in perspective. That is thanks to my HP. working this program and all the great shares. Maybe I didn't want to see what was right in front of me. I do question another area I am sure to learn in time too........do I want to live my life never being able to trust my spouse.......maybe this is where trust in HP vs him needs a lot of work.......it scares the wits out of me for him. Another area of needing to trust more......The latter part of all of this is FEAR. That if I don't do everything just right.........this disease may take another loved one to the grave and that......makes me want to run. I didnt cause it, can't cure it or control it, I can mix those words up as many times as I like, and they all come out the same way.... More work to do on self big time. Wow, did I ever ramble on!
Hugs to everyone and thanks for listening.
((Tude)) detachment and acceptance work for me This is a dreadful disease
Hugs back atcha, Tude. Remember that there are meetings on this site. I know it's not the same as f2f (except the people here are awesome!). And I did have the thought that if you moved to where your closest f2f meetings are, you'd be near them and not near people who don't remember how they blasted you the day before. But that's not for me to decide and I don't know all your situation, obviously! Lots of variables, lots of stuff going on, I know. But nobody should have to go through this craziness without maximum support. Glad you posted here and hope you'll keep coming back.
((((Tude)))) You do have a "situation" you have put your attention to and can see what you are up against for the moment and you do have lots of awareness and experience being a double winner. Double winning is a huge asset as we get the ESH from both programs and then learn how to apply it in any situation. That is what I am very grateful for being also in the same situation. I get lots of recovery to listen to and watch and follow and my Higher Power always leads me to meet more.
Acceptance is the solution all my problems is a truth for me today and when I practice it and stop fighting the consequences of not doing that I find relaxation and peace. My spirit gets quiet and I can be nudged by better thinking and possibilities. As far as meetings go? Locally we have lots of doubles who know our disease and are able to discus and use the principles of Al-Anon to get sane. Reach out and invited and ask them if they would like to start a meeting with you and contact World Service (Al-Anon) for the literature on how to start a meeting. .growth for you and for others.
Honestly you do have a situation which is also known as a life threatening fatal disease. You also have assets to share; your ESH and MIP and more. I am in support. Keep coming back. ((((hugs))))
While I can't move......yet......(IF able to return to work I'll be close by all my old support groups) I do love the suggestion too about asking someone to start a group closer!! I never thought of that before. It also takes the pressure off of the "what ifs" in the sense of if I do work over half a year down south. I got over into projection in this area too. Sheeesh! What a great idea!!
In the meantime I will scope out more meetings and see who knows who etc. and go to online meetings :)
I would like to share a few things my HP has used to change my life in this program. I woke up grateful and just mulled it all over. Yes, I will forever be learning. But I also see the miracle in all this too. For all the complaining I do, today seems a good day to share some changes since beginning on MIP in December? Sorry, memory is a bit of a fog on dates pre-alanon:
I don't wake up each morning with a dread of "oh no, another day."
My house is clean! For some that may seem a small thing. I am a neat freak and it got so bad I couldn't think of literally where anything went, where I put anything and had NO energy to get the thing clean and keep it clean. I wake up to a neat home these days.
My HP had me go on a fast. During that time my mind cleared up and I realized my thyroid meds had stopped working. My doc raised the dose and is also now working with me on physical therapy to see if I can get back to work with no back surgery. I have insurance for the first time in ages! That is all my HP! The lengths I have gone to in the health area without letting up on it this time are from what I am learning in Alanon. Stress does dreadful things......
As for the boundaries, I know everyone differs on this area when a double winner. The only boundary that is back in reinforcement is the no alcohol in the house. Even if it's hidden. The cunning, baffling and powerful bit me in the past. I do not want a repeat ever again and yes, it was due to alcohol in the home that was "hidden." I lost 17 years.....If AH doesn't care for that boundary, he can be single. I don't think that is too harsh. That is not telling him he can't drink, he just can't have it here in the home. It was a bit scary to reset this due to worrying about possibilities of drinking and driving and so forth. And, I am a bit on edge with it but am working on fully leaving it in my HP's hands and not my own. Work....... and then some. Still, I am grateful today and it is so much easier to "live and let live" with this fellowship than it has been in ages!
Have a great day everyone and thank you again for all your suggestions and encouragement. They are all good and hit home!
Tude I have started a meeting and it was simple. You can contact alanon WSO for guidelines and ask around schools or hospitals for a meeting room then we can talk about the next move
Good luck
I will have a concrete answer on this after 4-6 weeks of PT. Maybe less? I honestly don't know at this point. I've been unable to work for a few physical reasons since the end of 2010. Each day has been a good step forward. From what I've read on physical therapy these days vs last stint 14 lol, they can do so much more than what they were able to do before. I do have my hopes VERY high about returning to work. If this does happen I will be spending over half the year down south and a little less than half here. H and I work well together this way. We met this way and continued until health issues.
I am hesitant to jump out asap until I know a bit more. I would hate to start a group and just leave. Am I thinking this thru correctly? I've started other 12 step meetings before. No issues with moving etc but am not near as familiar with Alanon. Is it easy to get someone else to open and so forth if I do start one?
I cannot go to face to face meetings either with 3 small children and a recovering husband living at his mums but I find this space, right here a real lifesaver! I com here every day. Sometimes I may be able to offer some support and when I need support there is always someone awake to help me out.
I have individual therapy which is really helping me a lot with my co dependency and other issues of living with an abusive AH and I have ordered Courage to Change which I am hoping will teach me a lot.
Like you I am also a neat freak and it really helps me to keep the routine of the girls going, my routine going and keeping up with friends. I am glad I never hid my husbands disease and so was able to talk to friends and find refuge for me and the kids when I needed it.
Thanks for sharing (((Tude))) If it was a "ramble" as you said, it certainly had lots of great Alanon takeaways for me. I understand your desire to get back to f2f meetings. I love our online meeting family too but when I'm away from f2f awhile and then go back it feels like being welcomed home. It's a very good feeling.
I appreciated all the reminders about powerlessness and taking things one day at a time. My exah was highly functional for a long time until all of a sudden one day he wasn't. It's really something how that can really creep up on you. Yes, they can be very sneaky hiding bottles and cherrypicking their times to use when they want to avoid arguments over the drinking/drugging. I hope you're husband finds his way but am glad you are here sharing the recovery road with me. We can be happy whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not. Wishing your son the best of care for his back. Odaat huh. (((hugs))) TT
tt.......seriously, this has been at the back of my mind but it really is so very sneaky how my mind can just shut things like this out! I am so grateful for this program there are no words to even put down here!
HR, I am praying about starting a group. One day at a time. The more I think of others who may be out here in this position too........therefore, praying very hard about this. :)
(((hugs))))
I became an observer only of my wife. I detached physically and emotionally from her when she was drinking or intoxicated. I didn't expect anything any longer or wonder about what she was doing, why, what does this mean, should I confront her, what about the marriage, etc. I waited. I watched. I let go.
For me, it didn't matter whether or not she was an alcoholic. While this isn't an official, conference approved al-anon forum -- in al-anon, conference approved meetings, they say that if someone's drinking bothers you, then, "you are in the right place" so to speak. If someone's drinking bothers you -- then you qualify to be in al-anon. To me, it didn't matter whether she was nice or not when she drank. Meaningless. Meant nothing. She wasn't present. She could not be connected to me, and to a meaningful, real conversation. That is what meant something to me. It meant a lot.
In the end...for me...it was not a matter of trying to figure out "how can I live without her"...but a matter of facing the reality that "I can't live with her." That sounds difficult, but, in reality, after doing all the work in al-anon, it was easy. Is this the life I want to live? Is this how I want to live my life? Nothing changes if nothing changes.
As far as starting a meeting...piece of cake...go online to world services, and call your local information services office. Good luck.
The bottom line is, really just a matter of fact, no emotions that are off the wall.........is this how I want to live. For now I choose to stay and love, but in doing so looking at my own part in all of this daily. Keep going forward. And....most of all keep in this fellowship!
Hugs!!
I have so many opportunities to practice not trying to or expecting myself to be perfect. The moment something doesn't go my way, it's my tendency to jump to the conclusion that I wasn't good enough or did something wrong or less perfect. I know most things aren't personal. It's just that if I could only control happy endings for all (I'd be dangerous with a magic wand lol).
This thread provided relief as I realize that I seat-belted myself into that old, unhealthy pattern of self-blame.
I'm glad I don't have to be perfect. I am not perfect and that's perfectly ok.
Tude, thank you so much for sharing -- genuine, straight from the heart, no BS, etc. I thought through what you said, and the interesting thing for me is the dynamic, the interaction between "us" and the alcoholic(s). I don't portray it's an us vs. them thing, however, many times when confronted with my intoxicated alcoholic spouse, I just so intensely feel her thriving on the confrontation, the adversarial tone, the back and forth. Whether it was her motives to push my buttons, or just because that's what she does, or because she was thriving on it -- it doesn't matter. It was her driving that boat. Reason and motive unimportant. When I was a newcomer/beginner, I constantly tried to figure that out. Why? What's her motives, what does it mean, what is she trying to do, to accomplish, and so on and so on. The present thing -- that's why I ended my marriage. Yes, many other things as well, but that was the one thing that was so meaningful, so important -- to both of us -- the entire time we were together. When she could no longer be present, connected, substantially part of an important discussion or conversation, or allow us to be together and just connect, just to talk -- then a major ingredient in our marriage was gone.
To me, it's KEEP IT SIMPLE. She doesn't control what I think. No one can push my buttons...why? Because I choose whether or not to allow my buttons to be in a position to be pushed. My diffuser, my closed ended statement, my end reply was...I am sorry you feel that way. And I would not continue with whatever was going on. I might have had to leave the house for a few hours, but so what...for not being aggravated, for not getting a migraine, I'll do it every single day! LOL. After I got better, when I got real strong program under me -- nothing she said annoyed or angered me. I was sad, because what started to see what that what she was saying was her only outlet, her only release. She had to lash out. She had to attack. It was her way of medicating -- getting rid of her anger. Anger at herself, but never directed at herself. Sad. But for me, it was about me getting better.
I asked a double winner last night, "how long have you been clean and sober now?" He replied, "you know, it's been 37 years." Ironically, he asked me "so how long have you been clean and sober?" I immediately, with no hesitation said "24 hours." He said "what did you do last night?" and I told him I asked a question I shouldn't have asked. Is that a big deal? Am I being to hard on myself? Yes, no, doesn't matter. I want to be clean and sober from my ex. Period. I don't want to allow her, her life, her activities, etc., to live in my head rent free...and I have chosen to not rent space to them at all! LOL. But my daughter said something, it triggered something, and I asked a question. I thought about it, and asked the question in an innocent way. To make it look like I wasn't interested...but I was. I slipped. I let it go and moved on...and enjoyed the rest of the meal with the most wonderful young lady and daughter I could have NEVER imagined and hoped for.
So...for me...my recovery...is about my sobriety...practice these principles in ALL my affairs. Great advice. Oh, right, in alanon, we don't give advice. LOL. Have a great day all.
Bo, this is where I went but thanks to ya'll and this program.........didn't stay.......you said: I just so intensely feel her thriving on the confrontation, the adversarial tone, the back and forth. Whether it was her motives to push my buttons, or just because that's what she does, or because she was thriving on it -- it doesn't matter. It was her driving that boat. Reason and motive unimportant.
That one caught me off guard big time. I was used to it with my ex. It was just normal and when things because too abusive, I left. This relationship is now over 10 years and the "new" gloating in anger....etc all pushed my buttons. I can sure say if not for this program, (some of it many years ago and even then, I didn't work it as I am this time back in) I would just be totally in an emotional funk. I used to get angry, etc, all the unhealthy emotions. I too want to be clean and sober from my ex and what a great experience you had in your conversation with the old timer!!
All in a nutshell, it made the way for the great time with your daughter:)
The biggest area I am working on at the present is fear. Not tied into my AH but it is tied in.....I've been dependent due to health issues and that scares me. The self care part I am doing is everything in my power emotionally, physically (In PT and eating properly) and spiritually. Not necessarily in that order but they are all so important. I want to be self sufficient again. It has been one huge roller coaster and yet the ride hasn't been that bad. When the pain gets too high to do more than try to get comfortable on heat.......the crazy committee in my head gets going on the "what if's." This is another area I am learning the tools from this program also apply! That "sinking feeling and fear" begin to lift and are replaced by hope again.
So just for this 24 hours I will be kind to me, read all your shares, let go and let God.
Hugs!