We've just come to the end of a 4 day bank holiday weekend and it's been a good one and I will take that for what it is.
After last weekend, with my recovering husband in a very bad way whilst I visited him with our girls and his mum phoning on Monday saying her was in bed and not at work I spoke to him on the phone and did invite him to stay over this weekend to try and break the routine he'd been so stuck in...work, AA, run, sleep and repeat that daily. I later learnt he relapsed that Monday and was very disappointed with himself. Trouble was he was supposed to look after our 2 younger girls whilst I went with our eldest on her first ever school trip last Friday and I'd already cancelled my mother flying in from Holland as she offered to help if my husband was in a bad way.
He arrived on time on Friday and texted throughout the day about the girls, what they eat, how long do they sleep, what are they allowed and sent me photos....not sure how much work he got done. When I returned, he was in good form. We had a nice dinner and an early night. Nothing adventurous happened. It was the first time we'd shared a bed for 6 months and he first tie we'd had a normal conversation and cuddle in bed for years. It felt weird, nervous, unnatural.
Saturday morning he went to AA and I took the girls to dance class. My brilliant friend offered to look after the girls for the afternoon and me and my husband went into London for a late lunch, a nice treat, a lovely walk and dinner before returning home. We had fun, we joked, chatted but also had some serious conversations about how we are both doing. That we enjoyed being in each others' company.
On Sunday we stayed home and enjoyed the lovely weather. I explored my love for baking and came up with 3 bakes and my husband came up with his love of mowing the lawn and tidying the shed. He was very proud. We had a little bbq and when I went to church, he went to AA. I got concerned when he came back because he still smokes and he instantly looks so unhealthy after smoking. His eyes are droopy, his movements are slow, he's not with it. This last about 5-10 minutes and he's back to normal. He wants to stop but I don't want to pressure him as he's already trying to recover from alcoholism.
We had a little bite to eat and quite a serious conversation. The last 2 days were going well. There are still a lot of feelings going around. I for once want to be excited that he's here and staying over but I am also mindful of the pits we might hit. What about the first argument? Will he threaten to leave if I say something wrong? Is he honest? Is he lying? I've heard and read alcoholics will always lie and my husband he lied A LOT. He has also contacted women to ask for dates or flirt or women (all on Facebook messenger) to which he made me out to be the Evil with of the West. I confronted him with some information I got from my friend, she saw him with a woman in a park when I was in Holland. He said she was from AA but it still cost me every ounce not to check his phone. The last year of his active alcoholism he was in contact with other women all the time and his phone would ring whilst he was unconscious on the sofa or it would ring in the middle of the night with incoming messages. He blamed it on not getting any sex and that I was the most horrible woman ever.
I feel I can get over his alcoholism, I am not sure how I will deal the the lack of trust I have in that area and I want to be mindful in going forward about this as I don't want to be in a dishonest, disrespectful and closed relationship again. So I am mindful about my feelings, my thoughts and my actions. I did have a conversation about all this. He ensured me he hasn't done anything with other women after he went into rehab and after coming out of rehab. I was very clear that there is no way forward if there is no honesty, respect and openness about everything. Money, work, good things and bad things. He said he wants to go about rebuilding this marriage carefully as well. Not move back in too quickly is one of them. Not getting swept away. He says he wants to be with and he wants this marriage to work. At this moment his mind is still looking for alcohol on a regular basis and it's difficult for him deal with it. He realise he's done some horrible things and has apologised a lot for the things he's done. He's talked a lot about AA and was really listening to what I was saying.
We agreed we would see how this goes but this weekend was positive. We just have to be mindful about how we move forward and make sure we are building a completely different relationship. We both agree that our current couples counsellor isn't working and I have expressed my worries that although my husband doesn't want to have his own therapy like I have but just wants to do AA, that if we were to stop couples counselling altogether there wouldn't be a platform for him or me to discuss our lives, relationship and problems within that relationship outside of our conversations about us and our recovery. I don't want to go back to him being unavailable when we have just started talking properly and spending time together. Am I too demanding for thinking that we should have a 'platform' where we can discuss other things in our lives outside of alcoholism to help us rebuild our marriage?
After dinner last night we cuddles on the sofa with a silly 1980's movie and had a bit of lie in with the girls this morning. He helped our eldest with her homework, has spent a lot of time being involved and interested with our other girls. It felt like there was the parenting balance a 'normal' family would have and it was nice. He took the time to explain to the girls he would be leaving again today but that he wanted to come next weekend for 2 nights and see how we all feel about it and I thought that was a very good idea as the girls were so happy to have him back and are unhappy about him leaving but understood when he explained it to them. I praised him for that.
I am carefully positive about this weekend. I will take it for what it is and want to try to put other feelings at rest. Feelings which want more, which feel like when you are just starting a new relationship. I want to take the time to analyse this weekend but I also want to analyse my founded feelings of distrust when it comes to wondering whether he is also still talking to other women and what is he saying, doing, thinking, is he speaking the truth.
We have spoken on the phone after his AA meeting. My husband said he really enjoyed this weekend. So did I...with a level head and AlAnon knowledge....hopefully
Iamhere said
May 7, 2018
Glad that it was a good weekend. For what it's worth, when I entered AA recovery seriously, I had many 'other' habits and it took serious time/effort to change things. It is an individual journey and each has to do recovery in their own time-frame with their HP and sponsor. Just go with your recovery, and focus on one day at a time! Good on you both for working together....makes my heart happy!!
Dutchy said
May 7, 2018
Thank you Iamhere! (((hugs))) I am afraid to make my heart too happy right now. What you mention is probably why I am being cautious and aware and I think I need to be in order to follow my recovery and leave him be for his own recovery. Time will tell if we can make it right but I will take the weekend for what it was....fun, healing and good.
DavidG said
May 7, 2018
...early days... and my other cliche... giving it our best shot...
Ah guess ah shepherded you into this group and handed it over... I was pleased to be able to do this... and it has created an oomph for me...
we hear and learn a lot on the rooms... even a room without walls, or ceiling! It is a privilege. It has created renewed hope for me. Thanks As. ...
Dutchy said
May 8, 2018
(((DavidG))) as always
mamalioness said
May 8, 2018
Hi Dutchy, I liked your positive, albeit, conservative expectations, not trying to accomplish too much with him, keeping your expectations low so no disappointments and savoring the good times......Nice post!!!
Dutchy said
May 8, 2018
Thank you Mamalioness. It really helps to put my thoughts on here and getting the feedback. It grounds me, it helps and it makes me want to put me first and safe and sane before my recovering husband. I am just as important as he is and so is my recovery.
el-cee said
May 8, 2018
Your making great progress Dutchy, thinking positively and taking the positive for what it is without the expectations, well done. Its so good your thinking of whats best for you and your girls and your still willing to work on your relationship with your husband. Needing that platform for you both to come together and talk over your relationships also sounds like a really good idea.
Dutchy said
May 8, 2018
Thank you el-cee. I always regard your responses highly.
I am doing the best I can to stay 'grounded' and make sure there is a me in all of this even though things went well. I was surprised my husband texted me a few times today and phoned me after meeting with his sponsor to chat about the day. I feel excited, my head goes 'it could well stop soon again' so I am walking the middle ground. It's great he phoned me on his own accord today and showed an interest and that is today and today was good on that side.
We have phoned out current counsellor and informed him we were not going to continue the sessions. My husband was happy to find a new counsellor. We both don't want to slip back into the non communicative state we were in before and this past weekend went well so I Googled and found a marriage counsellor who is a recovering alcoholic himself. 25 years sober and works with many couples like Jez and me and understands where we come from. He would still recommend my husband would accept 1-1 therapy as well but maybe in the meantime this might be a platform at which he can also talk and work about other parts of his life except his alcoholism. We will see how this goes. We are meeting the new counsellor next week Thursday for the first time to see if we like him.
I have also ordered 'Courage to Change' and look forward to reading the book.
DavidG said
May 8, 2018
Dutchy wrote:
I have also ordered 'Courage to Change' and look forward to reading the book.
...
Dutchy said
May 8, 2018
Can't wait to read it DavidG!
Iamhere said
May 8, 2018
Dutchy - that's my go to daily. Partially because I have old eyes and I bought the huge version with big print!! And also because it speaks to me. I have the others also that I pull out at times but Courage to Change is my favorite! Good gift for self!
Dutchy said
May 9, 2018
Thanks Iamhere, I am hoping to learn a lot from it! We have found a marriage counsellor who himself is 25 years sober and hopefully he can help us a bit more than a 'normal' counsellor. My husband and I have decided to go for a drink tomorrow evening instead of our weekly counselling session.
He has also been in contact a lot more than he has been since he got our of rehab in February. He texts good morning and phones in the evening after his AA meeting or sponsor meeting. Let's hope these positive developments keep going....I am still protective over my feelings and my home as both are in a happy and (for now) calm place and I want to keep it that way.
Iamhere said
May 9, 2018
Hey Dutchy - glad to hear that you both have agreed to try another counselor....who knows - might be great, might not be - I remember someone telling me once that seeking counseling is like interviewing potential employees for a job - skills might be present but is it a good fit? That helped me realize that counselors are also imperfect humans and to know there is a good fit - just gotta find them!
The most important suggestion I was given in Al-Anon was to stay in the present. Don't let the past block me from the present and don't project to the future - good or bad. It was hard as it felt new and foreign but each time my mind wondered, I came back to the now and made a gratitude list. I had to let go of what I thought should be and be grateful for what was/is. This practice continues to 'save me from me' when my mind wonders.
If you've never read the Big Book of AA, I recommend you consider doing so. It gives a whole lot of insight into the insanity of the thinking for those with the disease. There is also a chapter to the Wives that might provide more insight as well. It looks daunting but truly only the first 164 pages are 'chapters'. The rest is personal stories....you can find it online for free and I always suggest it to those in Al-Anon who are trying to work on their relationship(s) with A(s). As always, it's just a suggestion - I'm on a 'seek to understand' mission for 2018 so am willing to do anything to better understand those I love and share my life with...just saying!
You have every right to protect your heart and self and home. Staying present helps me see the miracles instead of anticipating the 'shoe drop'. (((Hugs))) - you're doing awesome - keep doing you and know you're not alone!
Dutchy said
May 10, 2018
Hi Iamhere- I do have the big book downloaded and the chapter to Wives I've even got on my phone to read when my feelings and thoughts go haywire.
I too am very much researching, reading and learning about this desease and equipping myself on how to handle it best and make sure I am doing ok even though I have a lot of hiccups (and this forum helps me out).
It's a shame that I have to wait a week for Courage to Change to come as it's shipped from the US and I live in the UK. It'll be worth the wait I'm sure.
Dutchy said
May 10, 2018
Oh yes and I wanted to mention that I do feel that I am getting better at living in the present, being cautious about the future but I want to give the past a place and have discussed this in my therapy, couples counselling and with my husband. The past happened, there is nothing we can do about it and I don't want to keep turning circles in the past that was bad. I want to keep the good memories and good things that came out of it but the bad things, for me, have a place and they don't bother me anymore. I do feel I sometimes need to stop myself looking too far ahead. I am a planner, I like to be organised and know what is happening when and how to go about it. In a certain way I have tondo it when it comes to my children. It's a daily organisational exercise and often things need organising weeks ahead but on the front of my husband, me and our future I am cautious and guarded whilst being happy that for the last week things have been going well.
We've just come to the end of a 4 day bank holiday weekend and it's been a good one and I will take that for what it is.
After last weekend, with my recovering husband in a very bad way whilst I visited him with our girls and his mum phoning on Monday saying her was in bed and not at work I spoke to him on the phone and did invite him to stay over this weekend to try and break the routine he'd been so stuck in...work, AA, run, sleep and repeat that daily. I later learnt he relapsed that Monday and was very disappointed with himself. Trouble was he was supposed to look after our 2 younger girls whilst I went with our eldest on her first ever school trip last Friday and I'd already cancelled my mother flying in from Holland as she offered to help if my husband was in a bad way.
He arrived on time on Friday and texted throughout the day about the girls, what they eat, how long do they sleep, what are they allowed and sent me photos....not sure how much work he got done. When I returned, he was in good form. We had a nice dinner and an early night. Nothing adventurous happened. It was the first time we'd shared a bed for 6 months and he first tie we'd had a normal conversation and cuddle in bed for years. It felt weird, nervous, unnatural.
Saturday morning he went to AA and I took the girls to dance class. My brilliant friend offered to look after the girls for the afternoon and me and my husband went into London for a late lunch, a nice treat, a lovely walk and dinner before returning home. We had fun, we joked, chatted but also had some serious conversations about how we are both doing. That we enjoyed being in each others' company.
On Sunday we stayed home and enjoyed the lovely weather. I explored my love for baking and came up with 3 bakes and my husband came up with his love of mowing the lawn and tidying the shed. He was very proud. We had a little bbq and when I went to church, he went to AA. I got concerned when he came back because he still smokes and he instantly looks so unhealthy after smoking. His eyes are droopy, his movements are slow, he's not with it. This last about 5-10 minutes and he's back to normal. He wants to stop but I don't want to pressure him as he's already trying to recover from alcoholism.
We had a little bite to eat and quite a serious conversation. The last 2 days were going well. There are still a lot of feelings going around. I for once want to be excited that he's here and staying over but I am also mindful of the pits we might hit. What about the first argument? Will he threaten to leave if I say something wrong? Is he honest? Is he lying? I've heard and read alcoholics will always lie and my husband he lied A LOT. He has also contacted women to ask for dates or flirt or women (all on Facebook messenger) to which he made me out to be the Evil with of the West. I confronted him with some information I got from my friend, she saw him with a woman in a park when I was in Holland. He said she was from AA but it still cost me every ounce not to check his phone. The last year of his active alcoholism he was in contact with other women all the time and his phone would ring whilst he was unconscious on the sofa or it would ring in the middle of the night with incoming messages. He blamed it on not getting any sex and that I was the most horrible woman ever.
I feel I can get over his alcoholism, I am not sure how I will deal the the lack of trust I have in that area and I want to be mindful in going forward about this as I don't want to be in a dishonest, disrespectful and closed relationship again. So I am mindful about my feelings, my thoughts and my actions. I did have a conversation about all this. He ensured me he hasn't done anything with other women after he went into rehab and after coming out of rehab. I was very clear that there is no way forward if there is no honesty, respect and openness about everything. Money, work, good things and bad things. He said he wants to go about rebuilding this marriage carefully as well. Not move back in too quickly is one of them. Not getting swept away. He says he wants to be with and he wants this marriage to work. At this moment his mind is still looking for alcohol on a regular basis and it's difficult for him deal with it. He realise he's done some horrible things and has apologised a lot for the things he's done. He's talked a lot about AA and was really listening to what I was saying.
We agreed we would see how this goes but this weekend was positive. We just have to be mindful about how we move forward and make sure we are building a completely different relationship. We both agree that our current couples counsellor isn't working and I have expressed my worries that although my husband doesn't want to have his own therapy like I have but just wants to do AA, that if we were to stop couples counselling altogether there wouldn't be a platform for him or me to discuss our lives, relationship and problems within that relationship outside of our conversations about us and our recovery. I don't want to go back to him being unavailable when we have just started talking properly and spending time together. Am I too demanding for thinking that we should have a 'platform' where we can discuss other things in our lives outside of alcoholism to help us rebuild our marriage?
After dinner last night we cuddles on the sofa with a silly 1980's movie and had a bit of lie in with the girls this morning. He helped our eldest with her homework, has spent a lot of time being involved and interested with our other girls. It felt like there was the parenting balance a 'normal' family would have and it was nice. He took the time to explain to the girls he would be leaving again today but that he wanted to come next weekend for 2 nights and see how we all feel about it and I thought that was a very good idea as the girls were so happy to have him back and are unhappy about him leaving but understood when he explained it to them. I praised him for that.
I am carefully positive about this weekend. I will take it for what it is and want to try to put other feelings at rest. Feelings which want more, which feel like when you are just starting a new relationship. I want to take the time to analyse this weekend but I also want to analyse my founded feelings of distrust when it comes to wondering whether he is also still talking to other women and what is he saying, doing, thinking, is he speaking the truth.
We have spoken on the phone after his AA meeting. My husband said he really enjoyed this weekend. So did I...with a level head and AlAnon knowledge....hopefully
...early days... and my other cliche... giving it our best shot...
Ah guess ah shepherded you into this group and handed it over... I was pleased to be able to do this... and it has created an oomph for me...
we hear and learn a lot on the rooms... even a room without walls, or ceiling! It is a privilege. It has created renewed hope for me.
Thanks As. 
...
I am doing the best I can to stay 'grounded' and make sure there is a me in all of this even though things went well. I was surprised my husband texted me a few times today and phoned me after meeting with his sponsor to chat about the day. I feel excited, my head goes 'it could well stop soon again' so I am walking the middle ground. It's great he phoned me on his own accord today and showed an interest and that is today and today was good on that side.
We have phoned out current counsellor and informed him we were not going to continue the sessions. My husband was happy to find a new counsellor. We both don't want to slip back into the non communicative state we were in before and this past weekend went well so I Googled and found a marriage counsellor who is a recovering alcoholic himself. 25 years sober and works with many couples like Jez and me and understands where we come from. He would still recommend my husband would accept 1-1 therapy as well but maybe in the meantime this might be a platform at which he can also talk and work about other parts of his life except his alcoholism. We will see how this goes. We are meeting the new counsellor next week Thursday for the first time to see if we like him.
I have also ordered 'Courage to Change' and look forward to reading the book.
He has also been in contact a lot more than he has been since he got our of rehab in February. He texts good morning and phones in the evening after his AA meeting or sponsor meeting. Let's hope these positive developments keep going....I am still protective over my feelings and my home as both are in a happy and (for now) calm place and I want to keep it that way.
The most important suggestion I was given in Al-Anon was to stay in the present. Don't let the past block me from the present and don't project to the future - good or bad. It was hard as it felt new and foreign but each time my mind wondered, I came back to the now and made a gratitude list. I had to let go of what I thought should be and be grateful for what was/is. This practice continues to 'save me from me' when my mind wonders.
If you've never read the Big Book of AA, I recommend you consider doing so. It gives a whole lot of insight into the insanity of the thinking for those with the disease. There is also a chapter to the Wives that might provide more insight as well. It looks daunting but truly only the first 164 pages are 'chapters'. The rest is personal stories....you can find it online for free and I always suggest it to those in Al-Anon who are trying to work on their relationship(s) with A(s). As always, it's just a suggestion - I'm on a 'seek to understand' mission for 2018 so am willing to do anything to better understand those I love and share my life with...just saying!
You have every right to protect your heart and self and home. Staying present helps me see the miracles instead of anticipating the 'shoe drop'. (((Hugs))) - you're doing awesome - keep doing you and know you're not alone!