For the first time in 4 weeks I took the girls to see my recovering husband at his mums where he is still staying.
As soon as I got out of the car I saw something was wrong. He had either been drinking or he'd had a few seizures/absences. My mother confirmed that he was sober, hadn't been drinking but that he'd had 2 seizures yesterday and 2 today, one of which he had shortly before he came down. My husband was nothing like the guy I had such a good time with last Sunday afternoon. He looked angry, slow, confused, just not with it. I hadn't seen him, in such a bad state since January.
I should be worried but I wasn't. I sort of got a little annoyed as the girls were all over him, excited to see him and he was playing the big guy whilst being 'out of it' and actually too tired. He often disappeared to the room he is staying in and would just stand there, staring into nothingness. He was argumentative, sometimes aggressive and not necessarily nice to me or his mum. I started doubting whether he had been drinking or was drunk.
His mum was doing her best to have a good time and to make a nice lunch for us so I let him be and concentrated on having a nice time whilst making sure the girls were alright as my first point is protecting them.
After lunch my husband wanted to go for a walk with me to have a chat so we did. He was very stand off ish and the first thing he said was that our eldest thought his water bottle was vodka....it sounded accusatory as he has accused me before of putting those things in our daughters' head. She's not stupid though.
Moving on from that I waited for him to start talking. When he finally did he said he was angry he had the seizures. Angry and upset as he doesn't want to have them for the rest of his life and he wanted to end his life yesterday (this is the disease talking, I am aware of that) because he barely held on to his job, wasn't allowed to see his children, didn't have a wife or anywhere to live. He wondered if it would be so bad if he went back to drinking. He could forget, who cares, what does it matter. Why does he need to go through this unhappiness for sobriety.
I felt like his disease was trying to take him back and there is a big fight for him to fight these thoughts. He is definitely unhappy or depressed and has hit a real block. I asked if he had contacted his sponsor and he hadn't because talking doesn't solve anything my husband said. I felt I should listen to him and think about my response before I said anything as a lot of thoughts went through my head but not all of them helpful or very good and I still don't know whether my responses were good ones, codependent ones or compassion.
Wrongly or rightly I've read somewhere that a lot of recovering alcoholics feel like this at some point and these thoughts may have led to his relapse about 3.5/4 weeks ago.
This is what I told him:
The doctors have told us that the seizures will become less and less the longer he stays sober. They will eventually only be once maybe twice a year if keeps up a healthy lifestyle so they won't have to dominate his life. That said, he did relapse not that long ago and he may have put his brain and the chemicals dealing with this in disarray. His body could be kicking him up the backside by seizing as a reaction as it's trying to adjust again to becoming sober after a night of heavy drinking and his brain needs to sort itself out again.
I made him look at me because he didn't want to look at me and spoke sternly to him. I asked whether he had been drinking, He said no. His choice whether he speaks the truth or not, it doesn't bother me. It's his problem if he did. At this moment in time everything, and a happy life for him, is still possible and there are positives: he has a job, whether he is barely hanging on to it or not, he has one. For now his wife (who will support him where she can) and children (who love him and want daddy back) are still here. He is desperately holding on to his routine of work, AA, gym and his mums place. We are here for a good time, fun times, busy days, building relationships. He can also pick up some fun hobbies, have a good time with friends or colleagues. I asked him if he honestly had as good of a time as he said he did last Sunday, careless good fun and he said yes. He had forgotten all about his struggle with sobriety for those couple of hours and that is positive too. He's got a lot of good things to fight for.
At the moment he seems so low that the only way is up but it's his choice and every choice he makes is his choice. He chooses to stay at his mum, he choose to not contact us, he chooses how he wants his recovery to go. In my opinion something needs to change in the way he tackles his recovery but I know it's not my responsibility to make that happen. After counselling every week my husband seems more open, more caring and more wanting to get closer to me and work on us and himself and we often have long phone conversations that night. Unfortunately he goes quiet the day after for the rest of the week until there is a 'business message' which needs to be shared.
I suggested doing recovery together. We could support each other, do our own recoveries separately but be there for each other when we need to, discuss things, be open, communicate and share. When I spoke to the volunteer from AlAnon last night she said that she and her husband both had their own recoveries but that they supported each other in their recoveries and discussed it openly. My husband thought it a could idea, I will eave it with him and see what comes from it.
He said that I was right, that he needs to change things in order to move forward and that he was an a##e. I told him that I wished I could fix it all for him but I can't and I shouldn't, he needs to learn from this, he needs to strengthen and want his life back because if he keeps going like this he will end up jobless, homeless and alone. He hugged me, took my hand and we walked back to his mums place. When we got inside I instantly saw his face change and saw that he had troubles in his head. I left him to it. I said my piece, the rest is up to him. I am still very aware that he hasn't got a clue if he still wants to be with me and I am plotting and keeping my timeline as I too want to be happy. Today I was glad he didn't come home with us.
Now I don't know whether it's my codependency who is happy I was able to help my husband or whether it was compassion but I feel much more at ease and even though I feel physically unwell, I feel ok. I hope it's the right kind of ok.
DavidG said
Apr 29, 2018
(((((((((((((((((( Dutchy )))))))))))))))))
Dutchy said
Apr 29, 2018
Thank you David (((hugs)))
PosiesandPuppies said
Apr 29, 2018
Big hugs for you Dutchy!
You are sharing some good recovery on your part.
Sadly, it sounds like he was in no shape to actively engage his children with a visit due to the seizures. People who have seizures sometimes take 30 minutes or longer to get anywhere near "normal."I think you handled his "woe is me" talk quite well... he knows the alcohol makes the seizures worse...there is only one recourse for him. Sounds like what he wants is to be able to drink AND have the seizures magically disappear.
Perhaps a call to his mother before you all visit would be good the next time? Just a thought.
Iamhere said
Apr 29, 2018
(((Dutchy))) - big hugs girl - I also see recovery in action. Your post just reminds me how awful this disease is and how wide it reaches. Good on you that you set forth to enjoy yourself in spite of what was going on around you. Just keep it simple, keep doing you and know that more will be revealed.
Early recovery is hard - for everyone. Sometimes it helps to just breathe, pause and regroup as you did. Keep coming back!
Jerry F said
Apr 29, 2018
(((((Dutchy)))))That caused a good feeling here in Hilo...Mahalo
Dutchy said
Apr 30, 2018
Thank you all for the encouraging words! It means loads!!!! :D
Seeing the state of my husband I feel he's had something bigger than an absence (where he just walks away looking scared), I think these seizures were more the face contorting, shaking seizures but not the grand mal ones. I don't know what his recovery time was as I wasn't there (he generally take 20-30 mins) but it doesn't do him any good to stay awake. He gets very tired and sleepy afterwards and usually sleeps for a good couple of hours. I guess he wanted to see the girls and stayed awake, fighting against his body which doesn't work.
I think it might be a good idea to phone his mum first next time.
I feel he was desperate to see his children, I know he loves them dearly and he is quite angry he doesn't just get to see them. He didn't do much but sit with them on his lap even though we went to the park, he wasn't 'there' to really join in.
I haven't told him I wanted him to babysit so I can go to AlAnon. I don't think he's in the right state to cope or it might actually give him confidence and a good feeling if I give him the confidence that he can look after his children.
bud said
Apr 30, 2018
(((((((Dutchy))))))) Inspiring how you're working your program. Sending positive thoughts.
Dutchy said
Apr 30, 2018
Thank you Bud!
His mum phoned me this morning to say he was still home and in bed. It's not good but it's out of my hands. He texted a few minutes ago if we could talk later today. We'll see how that goes.
Thank you everyone for helping me through this, for all your knowledge and encouragement!
hotrod said
Apr 30, 2018
Dutchy I am sorry to read of this development Maybe a visit from an AA member would help him His mom, you or himself can call AA Inter-Group and request a 12 Step visit/ They were a tremendous help to me when I called.. The number is found in the white pages Sending positive thoughts and prayers for your family .
Dutchy said
Apr 30, 2018
Thank you hotrod. I live in the UK, I will find out if that is something we can do.
On the other hand I am of the opinion that he has to do reach out himself. I've learned he has to want to. Everyone can talk to him and hekp but if he doesn't want then it won't help which is why I hopefully was able to support him yesterday but he has to help himself forward? Or am I seeing this wrong?
hotrod said
Apr 30, 2018
Yes he is responsible to use his program and we are indeed powerless over his recovery.
Since this is a fatal disease and I watched my son pass from it, and since he has asked to talk with you today, then making the suggestion to him to contact AA would not hurt.
Dutchy said
Apr 30, 2018
Ok, I understand. I will do that! Thank you hotrod and I'm so sorry about your son â¹ï¸
Jerry F said
Apr 30, 2018
That is a solid suggestion Hotrod, one which I have seen work in the past and one I have also participated with. One of the drunks I participated with in their 12th step still attends open meetings and is sober...He was under the influence when I went and sat and spoke with him. Great suggestion. (((hugs)))
Iamhere said
Apr 30, 2018
I too have called for AA help and I've also been on some 12 Step calls. I believe the WE words used in every step are powerful and there are always people willing to be of service. The way I processed at the time was it certainly can't make things worse....I applaud the suggestion big time simply because if we as parents or spouses could help/provide the support, we would have done so already. Sometimes the same words heard from a stranger soak in where ours don't penetrate. (((Hugs)))
DavidG said
Apr 30, 2018
As....
for me the key to serenity, is the serenity prayer:
"Please grant me the serenity,
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to accept the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference."
For me- it is a direct petition to my higher power- at a time when I have lost my power. Bought to my knees!
The contact we find with other members is a great relief. We are in good company! ...
... -D.
Dutchy said
May 1, 2018
Thank you for your suggestions. I was at the point of phone my mother in law when she phoned me to tell me that my husband hadn't gone to work and was still in bed at 11am. He wasn't well after we left and stayed up until well after she went to bed. I asked her to keep me updated and I asked my husband if we could have a chat as he is looking after 2 of the 3 girls coming Friday whilst I am going on our eldest first ever school trip and wanted to know whether my mum should fly in to help if my husband wasn't able to.
He phoned around lunchtime and sounded a LOT better and clearer. He said he shouldn't have acted the way he did, that it was stupid and he felt he lost even more time with the girls. He said that he had to 'man up' (which in my opinion is difficult against alcoholism, you don't just man up, you work on it, hard but that is just me). We spoke for an hour where I reiterated my points from the day before again and he said he'd realised that the way he is tackling recovery now is clearly not working and that him staying at his mums is also not having the desired effect of giving him time and space (even though he has the time and space) to recover on his own without the stresses of home life.
The main thing he is scared of now is that every time I recall a memory, fun or not, that he will most likely say that he can't remember. I told him that that is not the most hurtful thing he will ever do to me or has done to me and that new memories can be made and it gives us an excuse to do it all again :) He told me he misses us, the girls and me and wondered spend the Bank Holiday weekend with us and actually stay over and see how things go.
I said yes to this, still suggesting that we do recovery together if this is what we want to try. I have my reservations and my doubts. Do I really want him back in? Do I know what I am getting myself into? Will the nervousness return? Will things ever be slightly normal? But maybe it needs to be given a try in order for both of us to see what we can change. I made it pretty clear that things can't go back to the way they were. That he needs his time for recovery and he needs to give me time for my recovery. That it's going to take a lot of work and time from the both of us to be mindful about what we do and what we say as very bad things have happened in the last 4 years of his abusive active alcoholism.
I can't say I am excited, I might be looking forward to it but I feel very cautious and want to go into this with a clear mind and we will see what happens and how it goes. As it stands he says he will organise our date for Saturday.
I realise there is a lot of 'he says' and that is just what it is. Let's see what his actions actually are.
SerenityRUS said
May 1, 2018
Dutchy,
Hugs none of this is easy stuff especially in the emotional throws of wait and see. I encourage you to just stay in today. I came to find there were no guarantees of the future and my crystal ball was cracked. It can be exhausting to try and play out every single scenario of what might happen.
Hugs again,
S :)
Dutchy said
May 1, 2018
Thank you Serenity! I definitely have more headaches these days but I feel better when I detach and accept things for the way they are and let my husband dobwhat he does whilst I work on myself and my timeline.
For the first time in 4 weeks I took the girls to see my recovering husband at his mums where he is still staying.
As soon as I got out of the car I saw something was wrong. He had either been drinking or he'd had a few seizures/absences. My mother confirmed that he was sober, hadn't been drinking but that he'd had 2 seizures yesterday and 2 today, one of which he had shortly before he came down. My husband was nothing like the guy I had such a good time with last Sunday afternoon. He looked angry, slow, confused, just not with it. I hadn't seen him, in such a bad state since January.
I should be worried but I wasn't. I sort of got a little annoyed as the girls were all over him, excited to see him and he was playing the big guy whilst being 'out of it' and actually too tired. He often disappeared to the room he is staying in and would just stand there, staring into nothingness. He was argumentative, sometimes aggressive and not necessarily nice to me or his mum. I started doubting whether he had been drinking or was drunk.
His mum was doing her best to have a good time and to make a nice lunch for us so I let him be and concentrated on having a nice time whilst making sure the girls were alright as my first point is protecting them.
After lunch my husband wanted to go for a walk with me to have a chat so we did. He was very stand off ish and the first thing he said was that our eldest thought his water bottle was vodka....it sounded accusatory as he has accused me before of putting those things in our daughters' head. She's not stupid though.
Moving on from that I waited for him to start talking. When he finally did he said he was angry he had the seizures. Angry and upset as he doesn't want to have them for the rest of his life and he wanted to end his life yesterday (this is the disease talking, I am aware of that) because he barely held on to his job, wasn't allowed to see his children, didn't have a wife or anywhere to live. He wondered if it would be so bad if he went back to drinking. He could forget, who cares, what does it matter. Why does he need to go through this unhappiness for sobriety.
I felt like his disease was trying to take him back and there is a big fight for him to fight these thoughts. He is definitely unhappy or depressed and has hit a real block. I asked if he had contacted his sponsor and he hadn't because talking doesn't solve anything my husband said. I felt I should listen to him and think about my response before I said anything as a lot of thoughts went through my head but not all of them helpful or very good and I still don't know whether my responses were good ones, codependent ones or compassion.
Wrongly or rightly I've read somewhere that a lot of recovering alcoholics feel like this at some point and these thoughts may have led to his relapse about 3.5/4 weeks ago.
This is what I told him:
The doctors have told us that the seizures will become less and less the longer he stays sober. They will eventually only be once maybe twice a year if keeps up a healthy lifestyle so they won't have to dominate his life. That said, he did relapse not that long ago and he may have put his brain and the chemicals dealing with this in disarray. His body could be kicking him up the backside by seizing as a reaction as it's trying to adjust again to becoming sober after a night of heavy drinking and his brain needs to sort itself out again.
I made him look at me because he didn't want to look at me and spoke sternly to him. I asked whether he had been drinking, He said no. His choice whether he speaks the truth or not, it doesn't bother me. It's his problem if he did. At this moment in time everything, and a happy life for him, is still possible and there are positives: he has a job, whether he is barely hanging on to it or not, he has one. For now his wife (who will support him where she can) and children (who love him and want daddy back) are still here. He is desperately holding on to his routine of work, AA, gym and his mums place. We are here for a good time, fun times, busy days, building relationships. He can also pick up some fun hobbies, have a good time with friends or colleagues. I asked him if he honestly had as good of a time as he said he did last Sunday, careless good fun and he said yes. He had forgotten all about his struggle with sobriety for those couple of hours and that is positive too. He's got a lot of good things to fight for.
At the moment he seems so low that the only way is up but it's his choice and every choice he makes is his choice. He chooses to stay at his mum, he choose to not contact us, he chooses how he wants his recovery to go. In my opinion something needs to change in the way he tackles his recovery but I know it's not my responsibility to make that happen. After counselling every week my husband seems more open, more caring and more wanting to get closer to me and work on us and himself and we often have long phone conversations that night. Unfortunately he goes quiet the day after for the rest of the week until there is a 'business message' which needs to be shared.
I suggested doing recovery together. We could support each other, do our own recoveries separately but be there for each other when we need to, discuss things, be open, communicate and share. When I spoke to the volunteer from AlAnon last night she said that she and her husband both had their own recoveries but that they supported each other in their recoveries and discussed it openly. My husband thought it a could idea, I will eave it with him and see what comes from it.
He said that I was right, that he needs to change things in order to move forward and that he was an a##e. I told him that I wished I could fix it all for him but I can't and I shouldn't, he needs to learn from this, he needs to strengthen and want his life back because if he keeps going like this he will end up jobless, homeless and alone. He hugged me, took my hand and we walked back to his mums place. When we got inside I instantly saw his face change and saw that he had troubles in his head. I left him to it. I said my piece, the rest is up to him. I am still very aware that he hasn't got a clue if he still wants to be with me and I am plotting and keeping my timeline as I too want to be happy. Today I was glad he didn't come home with us.
Now I don't know whether it's my codependency who is happy I was able to help my husband or whether it was compassion but I feel much more at ease and even though I feel physically unwell, I feel ok. I hope it's the right kind of ok.
You are sharing some good recovery on your part.
Sadly, it sounds like he was in no shape to actively engage his children with a visit due to the seizures. People who have seizures sometimes take 30 minutes or longer to get anywhere near "normal."I think you handled his "woe is me" talk quite well... he knows the alcohol makes the seizures worse...there is only one recourse for him. Sounds like what he wants is to be able to drink AND have the seizures magically disappear.
Perhaps a call to his mother before you all visit would be good the next time? Just a thought.
Early recovery is hard - for everyone. Sometimes it helps to just breathe, pause and regroup as you did. Keep coming back!
(((((Dutchy)))))That caused a good feeling here in Hilo...Mahalo
Dutchy I am sorry to read of this development Maybe a visit from an AA member would help him His mom, you or himself can call AA Inter-Group and request a 12 Step visit/ They were a tremendous help to me when I called.. The number is found in the white pages
Sending positive thoughts and prayers for your family .
Yes he is responsible to use his program and we are indeed powerless over his recovery.
Since this is a fatal disease and I watched my son pass from it, and since he has asked to talk with you today, then making the suggestion to him to contact AA would not hurt.
That is a solid suggestion Hotrod, one which I have seen work in the past and one I have also participated with. One of the drunks I participated with in their 12th step still attends open meetings and is sober...He was under the influence when I went and sat and spoke with him. Great suggestion. (((hugs)))
As....
for me the key to serenity, is the serenity prayer:
"Please grant me the serenity,
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to accept the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference."
For me- it is a direct petition to my higher power- at a time when I have lost my power. Bought to my knees!
The contact we find with other members is a great relief. We are in good company!
...
He phoned around lunchtime and sounded a LOT better and clearer. He said he shouldn't have acted the way he did, that it was stupid and he felt he lost even more time with the girls. He said that he had to 'man up' (which in my opinion is difficult against alcoholism, you don't just man up, you work on it, hard but that is just me). We spoke for an hour where I reiterated my points from the day before again and he said he'd realised that the way he is tackling recovery now is clearly not working and that him staying at his mums is also not having the desired effect of giving him time and space (even though he has the time and space) to recover on his own without the stresses of home life.
The main thing he is scared of now is that every time I recall a memory, fun or not, that he will most likely say that he can't remember. I told him that that is not the most hurtful thing he will ever do to me or has done to me and that new memories can be made and it gives us an excuse to do it all again :) He told me he misses us, the girls and me and wondered spend the Bank Holiday weekend with us and actually stay over and see how things go.
I said yes to this, still suggesting that we do recovery together if this is what we want to try. I have my reservations and my doubts. Do I really want him back in? Do I know what I am getting myself into? Will the nervousness return? Will things ever be slightly normal? But maybe it needs to be given a try in order for both of us to see what we can change. I made it pretty clear that things can't go back to the way they were. That he needs his time for recovery and he needs to give me time for my recovery. That it's going to take a lot of work and time from the both of us to be mindful about what we do and what we say as very bad things have happened in the last 4 years of his abusive active alcoholism.
I can't say I am excited, I might be looking forward to it but I feel very cautious and want to go into this with a clear mind and we will see what happens and how it goes. As it stands he says he will organise our date for Saturday.
I realise there is a lot of 'he says' and that is just what it is. Let's see what his actions actually are.
Hugs none of this is easy stuff especially in the emotional throws of wait and see. I encourage you to just stay in today. I came to find there were no guarantees of the future and my crystal ball was cracked. It can be exhausting to try and play out every single scenario of what might happen.
Hugs again,
S :)