Ugh. It seems like no matter how many Alanon meetings I go to or what I read I don't know the answer. And this question is something my problem drinker husband questions when the issue comes up. Why does his drinking bother me now? And I know that others say it doesn't matter if it bothers me it bothers me. But yet I can understand why he would be questioning it. I know that I feel that more and more the drinking isolates him--he drinks and then falls asleep or isolates himself in back room to watch his sports and drink. So basically once he starts drinking he is useless to anyone (especially me). I know that I used to be able to be around him and the kids and watch game together even if he drank--but it seems like he is drinking more and he gets soon loud its almost like a party of one. I know that he can be kind of mean in teasing when he drinks. So now I can't stand being around him which means I don't share in watching the game with him and kids, so less time with my kids.
And I don't know why--but something feels like it is going on. For 2 weeks now he is not talking to me except in passing or pleasantries, he is sleeping on backroom couch at night, and he has not given me a kiss, hug or touch in two weeks. Grant it--nicer to sleep alone without his snoring and sounds he makes, but I don't know why. Is this just more of his kind of emotional abuse/neglect? (I wish he would go to counseling. We have had to go about 4 times in our 22 years of marriage. But after one of the last fights about 2 years ago he said that if I ever mentioned counseling again it was over he was done with things).
So I asked for him to go on long walk with me tomorrow. Hopefully I can get him to talk. I don't know if something is going on or if he is reacting to something he didn't like that I did that I don't know I did........
Wish me luck. Thanks for letting me share.
el-cee said
Apr 29, 2018
Part of our disease can be the obsessive compulsive need to know what our partner thinks or what they are doing and why they are doing it. I was totally and utterly obsessed and it got worse and drove me crazy. It also enabled him. He liked me watching him he liked that he was number 1 on my mind. He had power over me and he felt safe to drink and take risks the way a toddler would if they were being watched by there mother. I had to learn that the problem wasn't the problem. My tginking was the problem my obsession with him was the problem. This was the only part I could change luckily. So I had to take my eyes off him deliberately to break this habit. It wasn't easy so for a while I kept talking to myself when my mind wanted to watch him or analyse him or mind read him. I had to tell myself to think me me me what am I doing what am I thinking feeling etc and if it was him I changed the subject in my mind. I had to realise that I couldn't control him force solutions have big talks and expect anything to change. I had to change.
Aline said
Apr 29, 2018
Hugs, (((Dancer))). I completely get that the A drinking bothers you... For me, dealing with As, its not just the drinking itself, by itself it doesn't hurt me, its all the other things, the change in personality and the false confidence, loose tongue... But the thing is we are powerless over all that in other people. That's the first step and I still stumble against it, because I have these fixed ideas in my head of how world must work, but I'm learning through this program and some pain that I really don't know how its supposed to work and to leave it be and focus on myself, which I can learn about and change. Like you wrote, if the drinking bothers you, it bothers you. The JADE tool comes to mind - we don't need to justify, argue, defend, explain. More will be revealed. While you are continuing to work the program you are going to get better, even when things are tough. Keep coming back :)
Dutchy said
Apr 29, 2018
El-cee, those are wise words, I've got a lot to learn! Dancer66, I too was bothered by my husbands drinking and I used to go out, take the girls out and do something fun. He didn't like that but that wasn't my problem.
Dalbert said
Apr 29, 2018
I'm sorry your husband is being so distant. It's a horrible disease that manifests itself in so many hurtful ways.
I think, for me at least, the reason it hurts when they drink so heavily, is we know the harm they are doing to themselves. Being a newbie, I'm starting to come to terms with the fact that I (we) are powerless to get them to stop drinking. We need to focus on our own health and sanity. Easier said than done, at least in my case.
Iamhere said
Apr 29, 2018
Dancer - As part of my step work and processing, my sponsor made me pick apart that which bothered me about the other person and explore why I had issues/problems/etc. with it. For me, I had to determine what my part was when I considered annoying behaviors, unacceptable behaviors, etc. in others, and it all came down to fear. Fear of failure, fear of success, fear of change, fear of being alone, etc.
As I explored the steps deeper and really practiced focusing on me, much of what was going on around me bothered me less. I can only believe it had to do with the many tools we are given to detach. I really had to let go of trying to assume what another was thinking, doing, etc. as that drove me 100% crazy.
As I began practicing, "Say what you mean, mean what you say and don't say it mean..." I took great care to pause and make all my discussion points using I statements. In your case, I would say something like, "I love you and care deeply about you and I am really concerned about how the alcohol is affecting your health." I often said to my boys similar with a stronger message that I had great fear of watching them self-destruct or die."
This is a progressive disease and deadly for many. For me, some of my fears were valid yet living my life in anticipation of a dreaded future event was unhealthy and a bit insane. In my world, any conversation where I started a statement with YOU was considered as accusatory and blaming/shaming. I understand now why that is - no matter who we are or who we are talking with/to and no matter what they/we have done, we are to take our own inventory --- not another's.
So - breathe in and be gentle with you and see if you can find within you what's really causing a change in how you are responding to him/the disease. This helped me greatly - like peeling back yet another layer of an onion...(((Hugs)))
Bo said
Apr 29, 2018
Dancer, I am going to give you my perspective, perhaps a different perspective. So, your AH's drinking bothers you...OK...so what? It's OK. It's normal. Don't be so hard on yourself. I know people in the rooms for 40 years, been with their alcoholic 40 years, and the slightest little thing bothers them. It happens. Trigger or not, it happens. This disease has major impacts and has major consequences, ramifications, etc. We make progress, but we don't live perfection. Alanon is not a program that teaches us to completely ignore, or become completely immune or oblivious to people, places, things -- especially triggers. Alanon teaches coping skills, guides us as to how we can better -- but that doesn't mean complete impunity. I hear in the opening of face to face meetings I attend here where I live -- you can find contentment, even happiness, whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not -- and that's true. But it's not absolute. Pain is inevitable and suffering is optional. Go gentle on yourself. Don't beat yourself up.
We know this is a progressive disease...so it's not uncommon that at one time you were able to be around him, and then have that turn into now I can't be around him at all. That's part of the progressive nature of the disease. I've experienced that countless times. With that comes the direct and collateral damage, the ramifications, etc., and who and what it impacts. And yes, it's a family disease -- it impacts, and hurts, the family.
I hope the long walk went well. Whenever I was at one of those points, for me, I would always check my motives. What was I really doing, the talk, to what end, what am I really wanting here, for me, the other person, and so on. I've often said -- when trying to figure out what the other person is thinking, doing, why they are doing what they are doing, why they don't do this, why can't they just do that, and so on -- the more I try and do that, the more I drive myself crazy. You cannot apply logic to an illogical person or illogical situation. I often used to wonder -- whenever I would have one of those talks with my wife -- what's her motivation? What is she really hoping for. I also looked at my role, my contribution.
I've been in the rooms, almost a quarter of a century. While looking at the efforts of "trying to stop it" -- I've heard it all. However, as far as the why they do, don't do, the thinking, the mindset, etc. -- no one has figured that out. It's the enigma, wrapped in a riddle, inside of an unanswerable equation question, LOL. It's a disease. The alcoholic wants to drink. Status quo. Nothing disturbed. Nothing changed. They are obsessed with alcohol, and we are obsessed with them. Co-dependency. OCD. Whatever. They will not stop drinking, unless and until they want to. I long ago gave up on trying to get them to stop. So, did I ever expect my wife to say that to me -- "Listen, I just want things to remain as they are, I just want to drink when I want to drink, no consequences, no ramifications, and you keep doing what you are doing and don't confront me or bust my chops about it" or something along those lines. I don't know, but that's what she wanted. My wife didn't want to go to counselling if it had anything to do with her drinking. She told me, the first time drinking or her behavior when drinking was mentioned, even if it was slightly inferred or referred to...she was leaving counselling! Nice, very nice. The way I see it -- it didn't matter. I focused on me. If it had anything to do with her, I couldn't control it or change, so I stayed on my side of the street. I swept my side of the street.
I look at my role, my contribution, but that has nothing to do with making sure I don't accept unacceptable behavior. It doesn't matter why -- it's unacceptable to me. I don't negotiate or analyze. Trying to figure out the other person, the BS, etc. -- whether it be co-dependency or chicken pox -- it wasn't good for me. At a certain point, I didn't talk to my wife about it any longer. I was the ATM machine giving out an endless supply of -- one last chance, one last boundary, one last talk, and so on. That was just how I felt. What a person says to their spouse -- that is no one else's business but their own -- whether they confront them, talk to them, whatever, each person should do what they want. That's part of learning.
Go easy on yourself. Share this at face to face meetings. And, talk to your sponsor. You'll get through it. All the best.
-- Edited by Bo on Sunday 29th of April 2018 11:11:26 AM
SerenityRUS said
Apr 30, 2018
Dancer,
I hope you had a nice walk regardless if your AH went with you or not .. one thing I had to really understand is other people's responses have little to do with me and everything to do with them.
My story was I had to get over being rejected by a reject as Mary Pearl says in her talks because I picked men who were emotionally unavailable to me. I was not emotionally available in that moment. As I have healed and worked with a sponsor I realized many things .. the biggest one for me and again this is my story was I don't believe I would have picked my XAH had I been in a better head space because I learned in that relationship you can have a relationship with someone who isn't available .. I wanted something more and that took me a while to get to for MANY different reasons. So whatever the outcome of your story be it that you stay or that you leave .. I hope you find a way to heal that spot that shouldn't be filled with another person first.
Hugs S :)
PS - One of my favorite Father Tom talks was about how he needed 100,000 alanon meetings and every time he ran into a challenge he realized he needed 100,000 more some of this stuff is so ingrained it takes a while to get out of it all. :)
-- Edited by SerenityRUS on Monday 30th of April 2018 04:41:32 PM
Ugh. It seems like no matter how many Alanon meetings I go to or what I read I don't know the answer. And this question is something my problem drinker husband questions when the issue comes up. Why does his drinking bother me now? And I know that others say it doesn't matter if it bothers me it bothers me. But yet I can understand why he would be questioning it. I know that I feel that more and more the drinking isolates him--he drinks and then falls asleep or isolates himself in back room to watch his sports and drink. So basically once he starts drinking he is useless to anyone (especially me). I know that I used to be able to be around him and the kids and watch game together even if he drank--but it seems like he is drinking more and he gets soon loud its almost like a party of one. I know that he can be kind of mean in teasing when he drinks. So now I can't stand being around him which means I don't share in watching the game with him and kids, so less time with my kids.
And I don't know why--but something feels like it is going on. For 2 weeks now he is not talking to me except in passing or pleasantries, he is sleeping on backroom couch at night, and he has not given me a kiss, hug or touch in two weeks. Grant it--nicer to sleep alone without his snoring and sounds he makes, but I don't know why. Is this just more of his kind of emotional abuse/neglect? (I wish he would go to counseling. We have had to go about 4 times in our 22 years of marriage. But after one of the last fights about 2 years ago he said that if I ever mentioned counseling again it was over he was done with things).
So I asked for him to go on long walk with me tomorrow. Hopefully I can get him to talk. I don't know if something is going on or if he is reacting to something he didn't like that I did that I don't know I did........
Wish me luck. Thanks for letting me share.
I think, for me at least, the reason it hurts when they drink so heavily, is we know the harm they are doing to themselves. Being a newbie, I'm starting to come to terms with the fact that I (we) are powerless to get them to stop drinking. We need to focus on our own health and sanity. Easier said than done, at least in my case.
As I explored the steps deeper and really practiced focusing on me, much of what was going on around me bothered me less. I can only believe it had to do with the many tools we are given to detach. I really had to let go of trying to assume what another was thinking, doing, etc. as that drove me 100% crazy.
As I began practicing, "Say what you mean, mean what you say and don't say it mean..." I took great care to pause and make all my discussion points using I statements. In your case, I would say something like, "I love you and care deeply about you and I am really concerned about how the alcohol is affecting your health." I often said to my boys similar with a stronger message that I had great fear of watching them self-destruct or die."
This is a progressive disease and deadly for many. For me, some of my fears were valid yet living my life in anticipation of a dreaded future event was unhealthy and a bit insane. In my world, any conversation where I started a statement with YOU was considered as accusatory and blaming/shaming. I understand now why that is - no matter who we are or who we are talking with/to and no matter what they/we have done, we are to take our own inventory --- not another's.
So - breathe in and be gentle with you and see if you can find within you what's really causing a change in how you are responding to him/the disease. This helped me greatly - like peeling back yet another layer of an onion...(((Hugs)))
Dancer, I am going to give you my perspective, perhaps a different perspective. So, your AH's drinking bothers you...OK...so what? It's OK. It's normal. Don't be so hard on yourself. I know people in the rooms for 40 years, been with their alcoholic 40 years, and the slightest little thing bothers them. It happens. Trigger or not, it happens. This disease has major impacts and has major consequences, ramifications, etc. We make progress, but we don't live perfection. Alanon is not a program that teaches us to completely ignore, or become completely immune or oblivious to people, places, things -- especially triggers. Alanon teaches coping skills, guides us as to how we can better -- but that doesn't mean complete impunity. I hear in the opening of face to face meetings I attend here where I live -- you can find contentment, even happiness, whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not -- and that's true. But it's not absolute. Pain is inevitable and suffering is optional. Go gentle on yourself. Don't beat yourself up.
We know this is a progressive disease...so it's not uncommon that at one time you were able to be around him, and then have that turn into now I can't be around him at all. That's part of the progressive nature of the disease. I've experienced that countless times. With that comes the direct and collateral damage, the ramifications, etc., and who and what it impacts. And yes, it's a family disease -- it impacts, and hurts, the family.
I hope the long walk went well. Whenever I was at one of those points, for me, I would always check my motives. What was I really doing, the talk, to what end, what am I really wanting here, for me, the other person, and so on. I've often said -- when trying to figure out what the other person is thinking, doing, why they are doing what they are doing, why they don't do this, why can't they just do that, and so on -- the more I try and do that, the more I drive myself crazy. You cannot apply logic to an illogical person or illogical situation. I often used to wonder -- whenever I would have one of those talks with my wife -- what's her motivation? What is she really hoping for. I also looked at my role, my contribution.
I've been in the rooms, almost a quarter of a century. While looking at the efforts of "trying to stop it" -- I've heard it all. However, as far as the why they do, don't do, the thinking, the mindset, etc. -- no one has figured that out. It's the enigma, wrapped in a riddle, inside of an unanswerable equation question, LOL. It's a disease. The alcoholic wants to drink. Status quo. Nothing disturbed. Nothing changed. They are obsessed with alcohol, and we are obsessed with them. Co-dependency. OCD. Whatever. They will not stop drinking, unless and until they want to. I long ago gave up on trying to get them to stop. So, did I ever expect my wife to say that to me -- "Listen, I just want things to remain as they are, I just want to drink when I want to drink, no consequences, no ramifications, and you keep doing what you are doing and don't confront me or bust my chops about it" or something along those lines. I don't know, but that's what she wanted. My wife didn't want to go to counselling if it had anything to do with her drinking. She told me, the first time drinking or her behavior when drinking was mentioned, even if it was slightly inferred or referred to...she was leaving counselling! Nice, very nice. The way I see it -- it didn't matter. I focused on me. If it had anything to do with her, I couldn't control it or change, so I stayed on my side of the street. I swept my side of the street.
I look at my role, my contribution, but that has nothing to do with making sure I don't accept unacceptable behavior. It doesn't matter why -- it's unacceptable to me. I don't negotiate or analyze. Trying to figure out the other person, the BS, etc. -- whether it be co-dependency or chicken pox -- it wasn't good for me. At a certain point, I didn't talk to my wife about it any longer. I was the ATM machine giving out an endless supply of -- one last chance, one last boundary, one last talk, and so on. That was just how I felt. What a person says to their spouse -- that is no one else's business but their own -- whether they confront them, talk to them, whatever, each person should do what they want. That's part of learning.
Go easy on yourself. Share this at face to face meetings. And, talk to your sponsor. You'll get through it. All the best.
-- Edited by Bo on Sunday 29th of April 2018 11:11:26 AM
Dancer,
I hope you had a nice walk regardless if your AH went with you or not .. one thing I had to really understand is other people's responses have little to do with me and everything to do with them.
My story was I had to get over being rejected by a reject as Mary Pearl says in her talks because I picked men who were emotionally unavailable to me. I was not emotionally available in that moment. As I have healed and worked with a sponsor I realized many things .. the biggest one for me and again this is my story was I don't believe I would have picked my XAH had I been in a better head space because I learned in that relationship you can have a relationship with someone who isn't available .. I wanted something more and that took me a while to get to for MANY different reasons. So whatever the outcome of your story be it that you stay or that you leave .. I hope you find a way to heal that spot that shouldn't be filled with another person first.
Hugs S :)
PS - One of my favorite Father Tom talks was about how he needed 100,000 alanon meetings and every time he ran into a challenge he realized he needed 100,000 more some of this stuff is so ingrained it takes a while to get out of it all. :)
-- Edited by SerenityRUS on Monday 30th of April 2018 04:41:32 PM