My sons drinking has progressed to where he is drinking almost daily, mornings too. He lives with his gf and her 4yr old. He has court cases, unpaid fines and his relationship is going badly. His gf is enabling him, buying his drink and he has had the cheek to point that out ot her. Hes manipulating her big time. I am so tempted to get involved and I have done to a certain extent.
He looks after the little girl while her Mother works and Im so worried about her with him. I'm not sure if hes getting drunk while she is up or after she goes to bed, Im not sure that even matters. He loves her and his gf, they've been together years now and hes raised the little girl since she was a baby. His disease is taken over more and more now, he admits hes an alcoholic now but its almost gave him permission to go for it even more. He has no idea what it actually means to be an alcoholic in terms of the disease as a mind and body and spirit disease. Hes convinced that when he decides to quit he will, he can't, he's tried on his own before and he can for a short while but it always progresses. He's in denial. His Dad has taken him to a meeting but his Dad even after 5yrs in AA is still an angry man, not really promoting it.
I can handle that and step 1 is easy, even with the gf I have taken her to a meeting and shes agreed to come again but I can keep hands off mostly but its the little girl, shes in there with them and they are arguing and fighting a lot then hes drunk and when hes not hes angry and verbally abusive and its just like a poisonous environment. I know this environment so well and its like Im watching me and his Dad play it all out but this time I am seeing it in full clarity. History is repeating itself but Im finding it hard to sleep, concentrate on work and my relationships and even have any kind of relationship with my son. I cant seem to make up my mind what my higher power wants me to do or not do. I feel like a crisis is just around the corner and I'm kind of wishing for it to come to at least end the current situation. He is going to lose everything he loves and he seems to be taking it all the way to the end. Im tempted to contact social services and then im tempted to offer the gf and daughter to come stay with me and then Im tempted to confront him and tell him Im out unless he takes responsibility for his disease then Im out. Its so painful to watch this.
Its like the 20 yrs with his Dad has come back and this time I can see clearly so what is the right thing to do? I dont know but I know I keep waking up with this on my mind. Thanks for reading.
Stan1 said
Mar 26, 2018
(((el-cee))) Right now I'm on the same page and it is heartbreaking to watch. I am trying very hard to mind my own business which is difficult with a daughter in law who is 5 months pregnant and seems intent on trying every thing in the book to fix him includine thinking getting pregnant would help. I have been doing a lot of leaning into the program and praying as I have found some past me issues surfacing and the last thing I want to do is project any of my dirt to their road. I have shared my ESH as to self care with my daughter in law. Detachment with love was so much easier with my spouse than with my sons. I am working really hard on my daily schedule of 8 hours work. 8 hours personal care and 8 house sleep and it's oOne Day At A Time.
Aline said
Mar 26, 2018
Hugs, (((el-cee))), and hugs to you too, ((Stan)). I'm grateful that you have shared as a couple of situations regarding kids in toxic environment is on my mind of late as well. My close relative who is a "functional" alcoholic and a gambler and his spouse have very recently adopted a 4-year-old and I pray for the girl and ask HP if I should inform someone about my relative's addictions most days. He's a good man, but we all know what the disease does with men, good or not so good. If he doesn't find recovery, he's going to get worse, even if at the moment he seems to be doing relatively "well".
The second child I've been concerned about for all of her life is my almost 10-year-old sister from my A father's (gambling addiction too) second marriage. In her case social services have been involved more than once, but her parents seem to have managed to toe the line and have not lost their daughter to this day. Her mother is a drinker too, but I actually see a lot more responsibility from her in recent years than I dreamed her being capable of before, and I feel mostly safe with her being there for my lil sis.
Bo said
Mar 26, 2018
I can relate to how you are feeling and what you are saying. When a loved one is in trouble, our natural reaction is "I have to do something!" -- and that's what loved ones do. I have felt the concern, the anger, the fear, the frustration, and the love. I have often heard "love the person and hate the disease". For me, when I was there, I found that I was quick to say I "got" Step 1, and was ready to take action, move one, etc. Intellectually, I did get it. But I really didn't get it. Beyond "admit" is "accept" -- and for me, acceptance was accepting that there was nothing I could do to get the alcoholic/addict to quit...and I had to cease putting forth those efforts that I had been doing for so long. I had to stop "suggesting" and passively aggressively "forcing" my will. If she wanted to go to a meeting, it was her idea. Not mine. That was just me and how I approached it. That was part of my recovery.
I had to let the alcoholic/addict hit rock bottom. They had to realize the consequences of their own actions -- even when I felt they weren't capable of doing so, and couldn't really see how bad it was or what might happen. I had to let go. Again, that was just me and my recovery. I spiked up my face to face meetings. I did 90 in 90 (again, LOL). I spoke with and met with my sponsor more often. I listened, I asked questions, I listened more, and followed the guidance and suggestions that my sponsor talked to me about. It works if you work it.
Like you said, you know the right thing to do -- for me, I so often knew...it was just doing it that was so hard.
All the best.
Jill said
Mar 26, 2018
This gets to the core of living with it, doesn't it? It's so difficult!
While the child's mother is at work and he is taking care of her, do you suspect she is in danger? Can he respond in safety if there's a fire or other emergency?
Does he avoid driving the child while he's impaired?
Safety is the issue where I get involved.
SerenityRUS said
Mar 26, 2018
I'm with Jill .. because children have no choice and no voice if there is a danger that's when I get involved I think the thing I would encourage the most is sitting down with your sponsor and a step 4, 5, 6 on that one. I would do a whole lot of praying as well, as I have based upon my current situation.
Hands off with my oldest has really been the best way to go .. however that being said I have made some drastic changes to my will so that if something happens to me then it is set up my oldest doesn't have guardianship of his brother based upon what's transpired in the last year. AND financially money will be in a trust that he will not have direct access to until he's 40 based upon the choices he's currently making. He can get money for books/tuition based upon grades .. money outside of that no. Those were the right decisions because my oldest needs some lessons in adulating and I feel that I would be enabling continued poor decisions (like getting a job and being able to be self sufficient). Set up is the same for the youngest. I can change all of it as they get older and as I do as well.
My oldest is currently living sober at school and is finding out that may be the way to go. I really pray it stays that way. If there were young children involved I would have a different mind set only because again .. no choice no voice.
Your family is in my thoughts and prayers adding young children to the mix is a hard way to go .. because it's not fair they have to live with the consequences of choices that they have no control over. It's one thing to be an adult and make a choice it's another to be at the mercy of the adults around.
Hugs S :)
Iamhere said
Mar 26, 2018
(((El-Cee))) - I hear your concern and can relate. I've got the 2 little ones I talk about, they are 4 and 2. When my son was back active, I reached out often to their baby momma without any judgement, questions, etc. I worked to build a relationship directly with her, and told her that if she needed to talk, or a break or anything, she could find me and I'd be of service without judgement. I actually set aside one night a week for them to sleep over here and also gave her breaks as often as I could.
I did the same with the kids - I made sure they knew that this house was always a safe place without arguing, tension, drama, chaos, etc. My son knows better than to 'bring it here' - I have a strict boundary and will call the police if necessary to keep my home chaos-free. So - I worked the avenue of being of service without any judgement to those I deemed 'innocent' to the actions of the disease.
My sons know I will move heaven and earth to be of service if/when they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. I did tons of praying, step work and talking it out with my sponsor. As I was active in their lives each week, a couple of times, it helped me watch for signs of distress, or worse.
It's very hard to detach when it's your child - yet that doesn't mean I have to detach from others who love them. I'm sending you tons of thoughts/prayers. This 'very plan' did help save tons of my sanity as I felt I had a purpose and when worry came up, I just kept asking HP to show me what else I can do...
hotrod said
Mar 26, 2018
((LC)) sending prayers for you and your son. Please increase your meetings that helped me
LinSC said
Mar 26, 2018
The child is my first concern of course. Although how easy is this to do? Inviting GF and child to stay with you could work maybe for a few days, but like you said he is manipulating her, so may not work. Calling Soc Services, how easy is that, does it take more than a phone call, do you have to prove he is not in any condition to take care of her?
Your ideas are good, but I think finding out more about what Soc Services needs to document before they make a move. And will they take the child away from the mother too, and is the mother drinking.
Hang in there el-cee.....
linsc
el-cee said
Mar 27, 2018
Thank you everyone for your wisdom. Greatly appreciated.
serenity47 said
Mar 27, 2018
Very difficult to watch the little ones caught up in the chaos. You may be the calm harbour in the eye of the storm for that little girl. When my niece and nephew were young and their mother was not functioning very well, I did my best to be of service to them. Stopping in to make sure they had food, were safe, and just to hang out with them . They are grown now but have never forgotten that. The adults are going to do what they are going to do until they want something different for themselves.
My sons drinking has progressed to where he is drinking almost daily, mornings too. He lives with his gf and her 4yr old. He has court cases, unpaid fines and his relationship is going badly. His gf is enabling him, buying his drink and he has had the cheek to point that out ot her. Hes manipulating her big time. I am so tempted to get involved and I have done to a certain extent.
He looks after the little girl while her Mother works and Im so worried about her with him. I'm not sure if hes getting drunk while she is up or after she goes to bed, Im not sure that even matters. He loves her and his gf, they've been together years now and hes raised the little girl since she was a baby. His disease is taken over more and more now, he admits hes an alcoholic now but its almost gave him permission to go for it even more. He has no idea what it actually means to be an alcoholic in terms of the disease as a mind and body and spirit disease. Hes convinced that when he decides to quit he will, he can't, he's tried on his own before and he can for a short while but it always progresses. He's in denial. His Dad has taken him to a meeting but his Dad even after 5yrs in AA is still an angry man, not really promoting it.
I can handle that and step 1 is easy, even with the gf I have taken her to a meeting and shes agreed to come again but I can keep hands off mostly but its the little girl, shes in there with them and they are arguing and fighting a lot then hes drunk and when hes not hes angry and verbally abusive and its just like a poisonous environment. I know this environment so well and its like Im watching me and his Dad play it all out but this time I am seeing it in full clarity. History is repeating itself but Im finding it hard to sleep, concentrate on work and my relationships and even have any kind of relationship with my son. I cant seem to make up my mind what my higher power wants me to do or not do. I feel like a crisis is just around the corner and I'm kind of wishing for it to come to at least end the current situation. He is going to lose everything he loves and he seems to be taking it all the way to the end. Im tempted to contact social services and then im tempted to offer the gf and daughter to come stay with me and then Im tempted to confront him and tell him Im out unless he takes responsibility for his disease then Im out. Its so painful to watch this.
Its like the 20 yrs with his Dad has come back and this time I can see clearly so what is the right thing to do? I dont know but I know I keep waking up with this on my mind. Thanks for reading.
The second child I've been concerned about for all of her life is my almost 10-year-old sister from my A father's (gambling addiction too) second marriage. In her case social services have been involved more than once, but her parents seem to have managed to toe the line and have not lost their daughter to this day. Her mother is a drinker too, but I actually see a lot more responsibility from her in recent years than I dreamed her being capable of before, and I feel mostly safe with her being there for my lil sis.
I had to let the alcoholic/addict hit rock bottom. They had to realize the consequences of their own actions -- even when I felt they weren't capable of doing so, and couldn't really see how bad it was or what might happen. I had to let go. Again, that was just me and my recovery. I spiked up my face to face meetings. I did 90 in 90 (again, LOL). I spoke with and met with my sponsor more often. I listened, I asked questions, I listened more, and followed the guidance and suggestions that my sponsor talked to me about. It works if you work it.
Like you said, you know the right thing to do -- for me, I so often knew...it was just doing it that was so hard.
All the best.
While the child's mother is at work and he is taking care of her, do you suspect she is in danger? Can he respond in safety if there's a fire or other emergency?
Does he avoid driving the child while he's impaired?
Safety is the issue where I get involved.
Hands off with my oldest has really been the best way to go .. however that being said I have made some drastic changes to my will so that if something happens to me then it is set up my oldest doesn't have guardianship of his brother based upon what's transpired in the last year. AND financially money will be in a trust that he will not have direct access to until he's 40 based upon the choices he's currently making. He can get money for books/tuition based upon grades .. money outside of that no. Those were the right decisions because my oldest needs some lessons in adulating and I feel that I would be enabling continued poor decisions (like getting a job and being able to be self sufficient). Set up is the same for the youngest. I can change all of it as they get older and as I do as well.
My oldest is currently living sober at school and is finding out that may be the way to go. I really pray it stays that way. If there were young children involved I would have a different mind set only because again .. no choice no voice.
Your family is in my thoughts and prayers adding young children to the mix is a hard way to go .. because it's not fair they have to live with the consequences of choices that they have no control over. It's one thing to be an adult and make a choice it's another to be at the mercy of the adults around.
Hugs S :)
I did the same with the kids - I made sure they knew that this house was always a safe place without arguing, tension, drama, chaos, etc. My son knows better than to 'bring it here' - I have a strict boundary and will call the police if necessary to keep my home chaos-free. So - I worked the avenue of being of service without any judgement to those I deemed 'innocent' to the actions of the disease.
My sons know I will move heaven and earth to be of service if/when they are sick and tired of being sick and tired. I did tons of praying, step work and talking it out with my sponsor. As I was active in their lives each week, a couple of times, it helped me watch for signs of distress, or worse.
It's very hard to detach when it's your child - yet that doesn't mean I have to detach from others who love them. I'm sending you tons of thoughts/prayers. This 'very plan' did help save tons of my sanity as I felt I had a purpose and when worry came up, I just kept asking HP to show me what else I can do...
The child is my first concern of course. Although how easy is this to do? Inviting GF and child to stay with you could work maybe for a few days, but like you said he is manipulating her, so may not work. Calling Soc Services, how easy is that, does it take more than a phone call, do you have to prove he is not in any condition to take care of her?
Your ideas are good, but I think finding out more about what Soc Services needs to document before they make a move. And will they take the child away from the mother too, and is the mother drinking.
Hang in there el-cee.....
linsc