I'm only 3 months into my Al anon journey. My AH has not started his journey toward sobriety. I'm still learning how to handle situations and set Healthy Boundaries. This is what I've set into play so far. 1. I will do what I can to stop the drinking and driving. Every morning before he takes me to work I have him blow into a breathalyzer. I can not allow it, if it's within my power to do so. I couldn't live with myself if I let him drive and kills someone knowingly. 2. I no not give him money. I need to make sure I can pay the bills. He has everything he needs. 3. I hold his narcotics with his blessing. If he had them my life would be crazier than it is now. Been there bought the tee shirt. (To many times) NOW he wants to go see his family in Florida for 10 days. A normal relationship this would not be a problem. 5 months ago he went on vacation to the mountains for 3 days with his family. That was a disaster. Now he wants 10 days. Who's going to make sure he doesn't get behind the wheel. His brother is driving him down but he WILL ask to borrow a car to go to the store to get his alcohol. His family knows he has problems. His family is aware and are willing and would WANT to enforce said boundaries. But my AH doesn't want to continue our routine while in Florida. I can't and will not control an alcoholic. We all know that's impossible. I can only do what I perceive as healthy. If someone thinks this might not be healthy PLEASE let me know. Just trying to find some sanity in this never ending nightmare I call My Life! By nature I'm a loving and caring person. I NEVER disagreed in the past on vacations I've always put a smile on my face and moved forward. 27 years of marriage and I've NEVER had a vacation that didn't involve going to Florida to see his family. Not one time on our own. Okay let me have it people...lol thank you for taking the time too read this. BTW he only gave me 4 1/2 days notice and he'll loss a full week of pay and I'll tell you, he's been unemployed more then employed the last 3 years. Which means I also have to pay for this vacation I'm NOT going on because I have to work.
hotrod said
Mar 20, 2018
((Starry)) not sure if you are attending alanon face to face meetings,yet - however i would like to state that the principles of alanon require that we do not give advise and that we adhere to basic principles one of which is that we are powerless over people, places and things.
In my experience with the dreadful disease of alcoholism I have agreed to my hubby taking a separate vacation (simply because I could not stop it ) and when he was gone i took a lovely vacation for myself .On return, I attended alanon meetings obtained a sponsor worked the steps and finally developed new tools to live by You are not alone so please do keep coming back as recovery is process .
StarryAmmo said
Mar 20, 2018
Thank you Hotrod! I didn't really need advice maybe I didn't word it right. My mind gets overloaded and overwhelmed most the time. I don't know all the acronyms yet. in the last 3 months I've spent many hours reading posts. I love when people share their experiences. As everyone says take what you need and leave what you don't need. I'm feeling like everything is in a tail spin or a never ending rollercoaster. F2F meetings are almost impossible with my hours at work. I've been to dozens of online meeting here. Still haven't shared yet. Thank you again for posting the support here is AMAZING
StarryAmmo said
Mar 20, 2018
I would love a vacation but I can't afford it. Especially 2 vacations. I'll go more in debt so he can go to Florida. Never ending. Sometimes I think it would be easier to just move on. But I am keeping to not make any major decisions for 6 months.
hotrod said
Mar 20, 2018
I do so understand. I went to my sister's home, who lived on the NJ shore made sure I made it to the beach each day and tried to relax . Please do keep attending meetings and do not make any hasty decisions.
el-cee said
Mar 21, 2018
This all sounds exhausting for you and I am sorry its all working out this way for you.
I learned to let go once I realised that a power greater than me was playing out in everyone's life. I cant control another persons choices, no way. If my son chooses to drink and he does then that's his choice. Hes 25, a grown man, on his own path that I cant possibly know whats best for him. My choice I don't give him money. If he chooses to drink and he then (I use the word choice but Im not sure how much choice there is for an alcoholic) packs in his job, fights with his girlfriend becomes homeless, gets arrested then that is the natural course of events. The consequences of his own choices or behaviour. My choice is to let his life play out as it should with little interference from me.
Do you have children? Think of a toddler playing, if hes being watched by a responsible adult he might take risks with his play, he feels safe to take chances because he knows there is someone who will help him if he falls.
You and your husband are playing this out, hes the toddler being watched by his Mummy so he is a man baby, your the mummy. He gets to push the boundaries, take more risks because ultimately like the toddle hes safe because your there to check on him, tell him what he can and cant do, keep control of his drinking etc. There's no growth here for anyone in this situation. He needs to be able to have the chance to make mistakes like every other adult. Theres no other way to learn for any of us.
Alanon helps with this little by little. I know I was helped greatly by using the Detachment leaflet, its kind of like a dos and donts list. I had to sit and get really honest about what is and isnt my responsibilities. I had to look at how my fear was driving this controlling side of me and I realised that the fear is mine and mine to deal with, an inside job. It wasnt fair of me to make my fear the responsibility of my son and force him to behave how I wanted. I had to stop playing the role of higher power in the life of my drinker. Im not his higher power, my view is too short. He has his own inside him and I had to back off, mind my business and let go. The consequences are hard to watch but they are vital for growth. All I can do is protect myself from the disease and the consequences.
SerenityRUS said
Mar 21, 2018
Hugs,
I thought I could control the level of alcoholism in my XAH, when I first came to alanon I was exhausted is putting it mildly, I have only just begun to reclaim my personal power and it took a REALLY long time to recover that after an soul shattering divorce .. not the leaving part .. the sheer effort to get divorced .. LOL.
I couldn't control his spiral and it only got worse. His family didn't believe me until after we split how bad it actually was and how awful it was for the kids and I.
Alanon gave me the freedom to let go of the alcoholic situation, I didn't leave my X until I was almost a year into program and it was not the drinking that did it .. in my case it was the affairs. I couldn't live with someone who was going to be that disrespectful to me.
In realizing how powerless I was and how unmanageable my life had become, did I have a partner or his mother. I already had 2 kids who needed me and still need me on a lot of levels at the moment so mothering, monitoring, and smothering him was so not the way for me to go. I got off his back, got out of the way, got myself where I wanted to be in terms of healing or at least on the road and my life has been so much better. I often realize I should have done that years before and both of us would have been happier.
One thing I heard around the tables was get off the cross we need the wood and the extra nails. I always appreciated that because it always checked me to make sure that I wasn't doing things to cause my own pain. To what avail was I doing this, why was I constantly doing things to hurt me.
Keep coming back and regardless if he goes on vacation or not .. your business is to take care of you. His business is to figure out if he wants to keep drinking or get sober.
Hugs S :)
StarryAmmo said
Mar 21, 2018
(((el-cee))) Thank you for your thoughts and insight. Your comment about Man Child brought a sad smile to my face. I do use this almost daily. I ask myself as I would a 2 year old, is this going to hurt them self or another? Because he's an adult I usually only think of other. Hence the drinking and driving. A few months ago I had a spiritual awakening. Realizing I can NOT control my Alcoholic. I was being torn apart by all the lies and deceitfulness. I'm getting better at realizing he WILL lie regardless of what I say or do. Detachment has been easier to do than I thought. I've narrowed down to 2 main boundaries, drinking and driving & giving him access to money. His prescription narcotics I WOULD LOVE LOVE LOVE to NOT have to monitor them. That's my next thing I want to give back to him. This was something we agreed on a few years ago. Even he was getting tired of the never ending search for pills when he ran out. Right now my biggest fear is his family handing car keys to someone who hides being intoxicated very well. My AH is so a Man Child. When I'm not around the child inside of him comes out to play. And it's not nice. 4 months ago when I was in the ICU with heart failure he spent the time staggering drunk. I don't ban alcohol in my house for one thing it doesn't work. Some nights are better some nights are nigtmares. Why do we do this to ourselves. I so need to dive into this journey of al anon. I need a lot of literature. I need to find peace.
StarryAmmo said
Mar 21, 2018
Serenity thank you I love your posts! They are so straight forward and to the point. I wish I was as far along in the program as you and many others. My oldest son I had to detach from for over a year when he was at the peak of his Meth use. He was homeless at times and always blamed me for his situation. I always told him he had a home if he was solber. It was hard to let go but he was an adult making his own choices in life. I ask myself "Why is it so hard to detach from my AH?" I need to find the answer to that question. Is it because it's my money he's drinking away? Is it because I feel I'll detach my way out of an almost 30 year relationship? I'm finding out this is not an easy journey.
Mattie said
Mar 21, 2018
I so know that feeling of trying to keep the alcoholic from causing harm. It makes us into police officers, doesn't it?
The thing is that he can blow into a breathalyzer before he gets into the car, but the second he's out of the driveway he can pull a mini-bottle out of his pocket and get roaring drunk. Or he can drive straight to the liquor store. And then he can drive drunk the rest of the day.
When they say the Three C's - you didn't Cause it, you can't Cure it, you can't Control it - they really mean it. We can't control it.
If an adult wants to go to Florida, I think that's his choice. Of course his choice may have consequences. He may get arrested down there, he may get into trouble, etc. (All of these are true anywhere he goes.) It may be necessary trouble. He may find that his wife/partner is fed up with living with alcoholism and decides to separate. It may be that he just lives his same old miserable life for a while. Whichever, those are his consequences to have.
The Al-Anon saying is "He's going to do what he's going to do, what are you going to do?"
Hope you'll take good care of yourself.
Iamhere said
Mar 21, 2018
(((starry))) - I too own that I am powerless - over Alcohol, the Alcoholic and most other people, places and things. I am gifted with my return of power for myself, my sanity, my serenity and my joy.
Much like El-Cee, I had to let go and determine my own boundaries. I can say that my first one was to not give money or fund 'wants'. I would assist with needs if absolutely necessary - I closed the Bank. I would not work harder for another to vacation. If mine could not make their own money or seek loans for their wants, it was not my issue.
I do know that it's a bit difficult when married and funds are combined. Yet, we are still not hostages to the behavior of others. I would not stand in the way, but I certainly would not enable/fund the trip. I also would make it really clear that any issues that come up as a result of his choices, during vacation/otherwise, are not mine to manage.
I've gone so far as to make sure mine know I have a one/done policy on bail from jail. If they land there, even for a parking ticket, I am not getting them out. The exception - if they have money on account here. I had to treat mine as if they were not related to establish healthy boundaries.
Good luck - the program, meetings, steps, sponsor, etc. were necessary for my own personal growth. Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery...
Stan1 said
Mar 21, 2018
Good Morning all and thank you for ESH today. Understanding that I cannot change another person is easy until it's my son suffering the consequences and standing by like I'm watching an accident in slow motion. I can relate to him being a man child even if he chose to self destruct at 40. The light really came on for me reading this thread and seeing how I rob him of his adulthood and growth when I jump in and try to fix the boo boos and stick a bandaid on it. I never did the kids homework for them knowing it was their turn to learn not mine. So good reminder for me today to Live and
Let Live.
Freetime said
Mar 21, 2018
Hi Starry, welcome! I can relate to many of your experiences. Just to add a couple of things to the wonderful ESH you have already been given:
I too was in denial or actually clueless that my husband's drinking was a problem... for a very long time, we were married over 30 years. Now I try to forgive myself for not knowing or not seeing, because denial is a natural mechanism to protect us from things we are not ready to take on. And I believe the same is true for the alcoholic.
For a while, we also had an agreement -- his idea -- that I would control the alcohol in the house, and dole out small amounts "for cooking purposes." I call that my Wine Sommelier period. I was really proud of him for "not drinking." It turns out he was. With the help of Al-Anon, I have been able to let go of my anger over things like that.
As Hotrod said, I also benefited from mini-vacations for myself. When things were at their darkest -- the horrible health consequences caught up with my husband -- I opened up to a few close friends about what was going on. A dear friend invited me to stay at her condo on the beach, so it was very little expense to me. I also saw a therapist through the EAP program at my work. I consulted a lawyer for advice on how to keep my finances separate. I believe that investing in myself was a good investment.
There is hope. My experience was that "the only way out is through." Keep coming back, read, listen, take care of yourself. You are not alone.
SerenityRUS said
Mar 21, 2018
StarryAmmo wrote:
Serenity thank you I love your posts! They are so straight forward and to the point. I wish I was as far along in the program as you and many others. My oldest son I had to detach from for over a year when he was at the peak of his Meth use. He was homeless at times and always blamed me for his situation. I always told him he had a home if he was solber. It was hard to let go but he was an adult making his own choices in life. I ask myself "Why is it so hard to detach from my AH?" I need to find the answer to that question. Is it because it's my money he's drinking away? Is it because I feel I'll detach my way out of an almost 30 year relationship? I'm finding out this is not an easy journey.
Big hugs,
I think your position is interesting to me from the stand point I always had the attitude leaving my XAH was not an issue if it was my only option (at the time it was he was in major self destruct, our survival was first). That being said .. I can't divorce my kids and that scares me because I am horrible at personal relationships. So boundaries for me are key. I do remember expanding so much energy I had nothing left for anyone let alone myself and my XAH was my obsession. I can't go down that road again.
My key components are my blood pressure is going to remain calm regardless of the situation and trust me I have been put through the ringer lately with my oldest. I have discovered my parenting has become whack a mole .. meaning .. I get one flying right although wobbly and the other one decides to take off and nose dive .. it's a little like herding cats towards a bath and no one is coming out alive. I'm so not appreciating the adventure, however I signed up for it when I asked to be sole custodian. The other thing is my anxiety over their choices. I am not here to live their life lessons. So I struggle to watch them struggle and with my oldest see a couple of train wrecks and have had to make the hard call of that's why you have a therapist. Not me .. the oldest ... lol .. I just can't at the moment and I am ok with my limitations. Now I will participate in the therapy with them .. I am not their therapist that's not to say I ignore their issues .. we have a couple of topics off limits. One big one, we have agreed to disagree on and we seem to have come to a resolve although my oldest seems to think they are going to slip it in on me and got a rude awakening.
I just came to a point with my XAH of being sick and tired of being sick and tired and thank GOD for Alanon because without it I would have been a bigger mess than I can be at times. My higher power whom I call God, has taught me that things I obsess over have a way of working themselves out. I don't need to worry I just need to relax for a bit and take care of me first.
Big hugs and just keep coming back, S :)
StarryAmmo said
Mar 22, 2018
Yesterday was a long stressful day. I can only say I'm blessed to have a job I love! I get home late usually around 9 pm. I grab my constant always by my side eReader. Log into AL anon and find so much wonderful insights. Thank you al! Gives me hope to think I just might find some peace. I hope I can achieve this before God decides to call me home. My 1st Post was on March 7th. Looking at it now and rereading everyones thoughts it amazes me how far I've came in my thinking in such a short time. Time is the key "word". I've proven all the doctors wrong, I'm still here. I have always believed your destiny has already been placed in stone. But how I live and love is not. So how do I find peace? Will I find it in time to enjoy it? I don't know but after only 3 months on this journey believe I might find some. (((Serenity))) I so so understand the Blood Pressure issues. I have among other heart issues is "Malignant Hypertension" my normal seems to be increasing everyday. It stays around 240/130. Never getting under 210/100 and thats highly medicated. My life and the way I'm forced to live does not go hand in hand with this illness. I have a lot to ponder and soul search. Today is a good day to submerge myself in self awakening. To start today's journey I'll go to the meeting.
Laurie aka StarryAmmo
-- Edited by StarryAmmo on Thursday 22nd of March 2018 08:28:48 AM
Bo said
Mar 22, 2018
So, he's doing what he's doing...not finding recovery...and you are only 3 months into doing what you are doing...hoping you are on your journey to recovery. er
Two separate journeys, right? Focus on you. Work with your sponsor. You said "1. I will do what I can to stop the drinking and driving." -- you may want to look at that. Is it your job to stop the drinking and driving. If you don't want to get into a car with him, when he's been drinking, I get that. No problem. That's a very good decision. But, as far as him driving -- that's up to him. Not giving him money, I get it. Another great move -- not enabling, not participating. Now, you "hold his narcotics with his blessing." You might want to check your motives and talk to your sponsor about this. Control? Force will even though you have his blessing? Want what you want?
As far as the vacation -- you ask "Who's going to make sure he doesn't get behind the wheel." and further say "...but he WILL ask to borrow a car to go to the store to get his alcohol." -- how does this sound to you? Having his family enforce boundaries, to control him, are not boundaries. They are controlling measures. If that's the goal, go for it. My experience, just for me, my case, I only got better, after I stopped doing those things. I did the work, did the steps, learned, made changes -- and I was doing everything and more of what you are talking about -- and when I stopped, I got better, I got healthy. Before that I wasn't living -- I had full-time job policing her, getting her family on board, involved, having them join me in trying to control her and stop the drinking. Sounds like what you are doing? You said "But my AH doesn't want to continue our routine while in Florida." and then you immediately state "I can't and will not control an alcoholic. We all know that's impossible." -- are you trying to though? Early on, I viewed healthy as my efforts to control my wife's drinking.
So to answer your question -- no, I don't think what you are portraying is healthy. Work with your sponsor. Our thinking sometimes becomes so distorted that healthy and normal become distorted.
By the way, is paying for the vacation something you are willing to do? Is that acceptable to you? It doesn't sound like it is.
StarryAmmo said
Mar 22, 2018
.....Bo..... Good points to look at. I've also noticed my thinking is almost as insane as my AH. I've never set up boundaries within our marriage, always the good wife and mother. Loving, Nurturing and Compassionate. Now realizing to the point of being Unhealthy. Always taking care of others and never taking care of myself. Sitting here looking back on the time period of the Peak of his narcotic addiction I have had a few revelations. I believe he wanted me to FIX it. I always fixed what was and is broken. It didn't work. At that point his addiction caused the loss of our home and a VERY good job. I never thought "me" would be homeless. A dirty secret no one knew. I worked miracles and found another home after 6 months of hard work on my part. I think my AH was worried I'd leave. Maybe I should of. Still don't understand why I continued on the path of insanity. My AH takes no responsiblites in any fixes. When he asked me to handle his meds I thought he was making progress. I was so wrong. Yes the narcotic issues went away BUT that just opened the door to another addiction. Another thing I'm very strong on, drinking & driving. I only check his alcohol levels when I get into the car. Of course I realize I can't stop him from drinking as soon as I get out. With him going to Florida and driving scares me. I don't know how to handle this felling. Almost to the point of being petrified! Finding a way out of this fear Is overwelming me. His family knows but he lies to them they think he's in recovery. But it's not my place to tell them he's never been in recovery. I also tried the "Intervention" method years ago. Didn't work, he took over the intervention and turned it into "Interrogation" of us as a family unit. So far most everyones EHS IS if he wants to go let him. I do have a choice not to fund this vacation. THEN my next thought is "Here's another resentment rearing it's ugly head again". He will take 10 days off. Almost 2 weeks of lost wages. I always seem to take 1 step forward and 6 steps backwards. It's taken 27 years to create the monsters lurking within my thinking. I know it will take so much work and time to try and right this the best I can, I'm so impatient. Just so much sadness, fear, worry and resentment. Can I even "Fix" myself? But thank you Bo! Some of us respond better with directness I thinks it's because I'm very much a type A personality. So now to keep what's healthy in my boundaries and remove what's unhealthy.
Bo said
Mar 22, 2018
Laurie, its' amazing you've noticed that your thinking is almost as insane as your AH. Many, many newcomers don't recognize that. They have no idea. I didn't notice or realize that. All of it had just become "normal" to me -- the drama, the chaos, the turmoil, the havoc, her behavior, my behavior, my full time job trying to stop it and fix it, the manipulations, lies, stories, the aftermath of the drinking, and so on and so on. I didn't know my thinking was so distorted and was as insane as my AW's.
Life can come crashing down due to the disease of addiction. Mine did. While I had the ability -- through legal and financial ways -- to ultimately protect myself, asets, my exposure/liability, etc., while all of this was going on, the marriage did not go unscathed. I handled her meds too. A 40 year old, Ivy league educated, executive. And I handled her meds...because she asked me to? Don't do for someone else something they should and could be doing for themselves. I was told so many times. But I didn't listen. Not at first. I finally did.
You are making progress though -- you now know you can't control his drinking and driving, and you are focusing on YOU and how to handle the feelings of fear while he is in FL. That's great!!! Great for you!!! That's amazing progress!!! Go talk to your sponsor about this and he/she will work with you, guide you, and you will learn acceptance, surrender, and letting go.
I found that a loving, nurturing, and very much so compassionate spouse CAN set up boundaries while being all of those things. Being those things doesn't happen because we don't have boundaries. Actually, I think that spouse WILL have boundaries. They are not exclusive.
That said -- go to work! LOL. You are doing great. Keep focusing on YOU.
Stan1 said
Mar 22, 2018
(((Starry))) Just popping back in as you mentioned that you have heart issues and high BP. I too have heart issues, 2x attacks and it is really important to take care of my stress and BP. My cardio Dr and I came to a compromise last year that if I walked 5000 steps a day I didn't have to do another stress test (which I'm afraid of) So I went out and bought myself a puppy and we are out at least 6 times a day. My BP is now 120/80 and my steps increase daily. Not suggesting everyone needs a dog, she was the motivation I needed to take better care of me mentally and physically. We did even make it through a Northern winter....sure glad to see spring :)
StarryAmmo said
Mar 22, 2018
Living with an AH is like living with the circus with all the monkeys riding the Rollercoaster! I believe my world has exploded into a million peices. He's going to Florida and finally told me where a large sum of money went. (Money from a construction job he did) first real paycheck in years. Needed for bills which he helped build while not working. Just found out he paid for his part of the trip. So, PUFF gone on car rental and gas cards. I'm beyond LIVID. I always say this man will be the death of me. This time he pushed my BP 289/150. So how I'm medicating myself which will help me detach because I'll be asleep. They puts me out. I used the saying "Say what you Mean Mean what you say, but don't say it Mean" am I close? I asked him to stay in Florida. I'm not upset with him leaving and not coming back, I'm more upset with the financial mess he's leaving me with. But right now I'm numb. Trying not to think about all the things I need to deal with starting tomorrow morning.
Iamhere said
Mar 22, 2018
So sorry for the situation Starry.....I do understand your anger. Try to take good care of yourself! (((Hugs)))
Bo said
Mar 22, 2018
Laurie, you are only in the program for three months, and while you are starting to grasp some of the tools of the program -- you are not yet in a place of real recovery. Making decisions right now would be making decisions from a place of anger, resentment, aggression, duress, and probably more things that you are feeling. And, those feelings are overwhelming -- they are overwhelming you. Now, this is normal, so don't fight it. Acceptance, surrender, and letting go.
Now, if you were in program longer, maybe 6 months -- 6 months of real work, meeting with your sponsor, working with him/her, making changes, being in a place of acceptance, starting to get past the anger and resentment, having given up your desire to control him and get him to stop, and had more progress...then...you might be in a position of making decisions from a place of intellect, strength, healthy thinking, and so forth.
From my experience, when I was going through all of this, much of what you are going through, when I started doing the work...my goal was to get better, to get healthy...so that I could arrive at a place where I could ask myself -- and answer -- the question...is this the way I want to live my life? Is this the life I want to live?
I got there. You will too. Keep doing your work. Keep coming back.
Now, that said, if you've asked him to stay in FL...good for you! I am proud of you and I admire and respect your courage. And if he doesn't stay? If he doesn't make it easy for you? Keep doing your work. Keep coming back.
Finding grace said
Mar 23, 2018
Sorry for the recent drama you are dealing with.
Boy do I relate! My AH is making all sorts of new job and financial decisions, all without any input from me, consideration, or even a conversation.
He is busy with whatever, making a mess....but I can't control him. He will do what he will do, period. The only thing I can do is minimize the impact the choices will have on me, by making some different choices for myself. I will not be able to control anything he does, so I am committed to not trying to. My AH tends to blame everyone for everything, so honestly it is kind of freeing to no longer try to hold controls, it gave him an easy route to blaming me. I am sure he will do so anyway, but he will have a much harder time trying to make that argument.
When he gets frustrated with me, he loves to threaten leaving or a break up....I just don't accept the invitation to the fight, BUT boy, am I ever tempted to tell him that I agree! I don't know what the future holds for us, and that's ok, I don't need to know that now. I don't want to react from frustration, impulse, or anger, so for me, today I keep working on my recovery, focusing on myself, detachment, and trying to find serenity, in spite of his actions. I know I am still to angry to make any decisions yet.
I hope you have a peaceful few days while your AH is away. I would view it as a mini vacation for myself either way. Obviously only you can decide what is best for you, and your health, and if you are ready to end it, it's certainly understandable! Hoping for peace, rest, and relaxation for you.
SerenityRUS said
Mar 23, 2018
Hugs SA,
I am so sorry this is impacting you negatively .. especially financially. I would def be finding a way to protect myself financially and just cut that off. It sounds like you are able to financially do things on your own.
One thing I have heard across the board and this was true for me when the seriousness of what alcoholism was doing to me health wise it was crazy .. my blood pressure was through the roof when I moved out the same state my blood pressure dropped by 40 points that is HUGE. I remember the day of court I happened to have a Dr appointment and my Dr was so upset because it was so high I should have been stroking out .. it was a mess. As I detangled from my XAH I was able to get healthier .. not to say I couldn't do better now .. however I am soooo much better than I was, I need to loose a little weight .. I will take that over the blood pressure and constant anxiety attacks I was having and didn't know it. I thought I was dying very literally.
I hope you are able to relax and take a breath because for me it really made me realize how neglectful I had been and there was no one there who had my back and that was scarier because of the fact I had 2 minor children at the time and I was leaving them to what?
Keep coming back. S :)
StarryAmmo said
Mar 23, 2018
I have no words to express how much it helps to know so many people would take the time out of their day to extend heartfelt messages. So far I've gotten 1 text 1 phone call and 1 email. I haven't responded to any of them. I don't know if that is the right way to handle this? I just don't want to be baited into coming unraveled. So far I'm enjoying my quiet. It's only been 16 hours since he left. He's already in Florida 600 miles away. For being such a short amount of time I feel lighter. I don't have to hear him slur, worry about if he's drank too much and get mean & nasty. Or setting his meds up for morning. He left under the pretense that he NOT coming home. My youngest who's 23 talked to him this afternoon and said he was already on his way to getting drunk. You know what? I didn't care. First thought might seem mean but it was "it's not me babysitting today" yes immature, but felt so liberating to feel free? I've been all over the map in regards to my fèelings. One minute I'm angry, for what he dropped in my lap. (He was laughing and making jokes during the trip while talking to our son.) I had to repeat "One day at a time" for me One minute at a time. Then the next minute while sitting in my office I feel like crying, overwhelming fèelings that I've been screwed (sorry) outta 27 years. 30 minutes later I feel calm, peaceful telling myself I could get used to this. As I've said before I have a long way to go to recovery and finding "Laurie". I feel I've lifted 1,000 lbs of burden and heartache as of 4 am this morning. Once again THANK YOU!!!! After 12 hours at work I have my first night of unburdening . I know not a word but right now sounds so rigjt. My youngest is here for emotional support which I need no words from him, just being here is enough. Chinese Take Out is all we need this MINUTE.
StarryAmmo said
Mar 23, 2018
Oops gotta say something to Stan1!! You mentioned Puppies! I have 2 of them. One's name is Star and the a other Ammo. Star weights 4 lbs and Ammo 20 Lbs. They are my children now that my 3 are grown up. Yes they help with movement and enjoyment! Thank you for your post!!!!
Stan1 said
Mar 23, 2018
(((Starry))) You are welcome. Mine is a little Shih tsu and she is my baby as our kids are all grown. She also makes sure that I get my steps in for the day:). I hope you enjoy your peace and quiet and do something nice for you.
WestMan said
Mar 24, 2018
Hi StarryAmmo. So sorry for the grief and turmoil you are experiencing. It is certainly not fun. When my Ex had her final meltdown and I decided to separate I experienced periods of peaceful healing which were interrupted by periods of fear, sadness and anger. It is getting better because with this program I'm getting better little by little.
Iamhere said
Mar 24, 2018
Hey StarryAmmo - great share and great awareness. May today bring you serenity and calm. Love the names of your pup and 'Now I get it'!!! (((Hugs))) of healing headed your way...
Bo said
Mar 24, 2018
It's amazing when you start to really feel and experience the "hope" -- and then it turns into real relief, almost a calmness. I so enjoy my "quiet" and the feeling "lighter" so to speak. For me, just having the behavior -- all of it -- not in my face, vision, etc., allowed me to make progress with detaching, both physically and emotionally.
I like what you said about how it felt liberating to feel free. I've found the anger still lingers sometimes. It goes dormant, quiet, or whatever you want to call it...but for me, over time, when I immersed myself into acceptance, surrender, letting go, and detachment -- I got past all of the anger and resentment. Today, I am "unoffendable" and don't allow any of that to infiltrate my world. I just don't interact with unhealthy people when given the choice.
The chaos that was left behind, is what I call the "collateral damage" part of this disease. And, there can be a lot of it.
Miracles do happen.
Hope you enjoyed the Chinese take-out!!! LOL.
Donehurting said
Apr 4, 2018
StarryAmmo wrote:
Which means I also have to pay for this vacation
Which means you can say NO! Let him pay for it if he wants to go. If he wants to get drunk and drive that's his problem. If he drives others who know he is drunk, that's their problem.
In my experience with the dreadful disease of alcoholism I have agreed to my hubby taking a separate vacation (simply because I could not stop it ) and when he was gone i took a lovely vacation for myself .On return, I attended alanon meetings obtained a sponsor worked the steps and finally developed new tools to live by You are not alone so please do keep coming back as recovery is process .
This all sounds exhausting for you and I am sorry its all working out this way for you.
I learned to let go once I realised that a power greater than me was playing out in everyone's life. I cant control another persons choices, no way. If my son chooses to drink and he does then that's his choice. Hes 25, a grown man, on his own path that I cant possibly know whats best for him. My choice I don't give him money. If he chooses to drink and he then (I use the word choice but Im not sure how much choice there is for an alcoholic) packs in his job, fights with his girlfriend becomes homeless, gets arrested then that is the natural course of events. The consequences of his own choices or behaviour. My choice is to let his life play out as it should with little interference from me.
Do you have children? Think of a toddler playing, if hes being watched by a responsible adult he might take risks with his play, he feels safe to take chances because he knows there is someone who will help him if he falls.
You and your husband are playing this out, hes the toddler being watched by his Mummy so he is a man baby, your the mummy. He gets to push the boundaries, take more risks because ultimately like the toddle hes safe because your there to check on him, tell him what he can and cant do, keep control of his drinking etc. There's no growth here for anyone in this situation. He needs to be able to have the chance to make mistakes like every other adult. Theres no other way to learn for any of us.
Alanon helps with this little by little. I know I was helped greatly by using the Detachment leaflet, its kind of like a dos and donts list. I had to sit and get really honest about what is and isnt my responsibilities. I had to look at how my fear was driving this controlling side of me and I realised that the fear is mine and mine to deal with, an inside job. It wasnt fair of me to make my fear the responsibility of my son and force him to behave how I wanted. I had to stop playing the role of higher power in the life of my drinker. Im not his higher power, my view is too short. He has his own inside him and I had to back off, mind my business and let go. The consequences are hard to watch but they are vital for growth. All I can do is protect myself from the disease and the consequences.
I thought I could control the level of alcoholism in my XAH, when I first came to alanon I was exhausted is putting it mildly, I have only just begun to reclaim my personal power and it took a REALLY long time to recover that after an soul shattering divorce .. not the leaving part .. the sheer effort to get divorced .. LOL.
I couldn't control his spiral and it only got worse. His family didn't believe me until after we split how bad it actually was and how awful it was for the kids and I.
Alanon gave me the freedom to let go of the alcoholic situation, I didn't leave my X until I was almost a year into program and it was not the drinking that did it .. in my case it was the affairs. I couldn't live with someone who was going to be that disrespectful to me.
In realizing how powerless I was and how unmanageable my life had become, did I have a partner or his mother. I already had 2 kids who needed me and still need me on a lot of levels at the moment so mothering, monitoring, and smothering him was so not the way for me to go. I got off his back, got out of the way, got myself where I wanted to be in terms of healing or at least on the road and my life has been so much better. I often realize I should have done that years before and both of us would have been happier.
One thing I heard around the tables was get off the cross we need the wood and the extra nails. I always appreciated that because it always checked me to make sure that I wasn't doing things to cause my own pain. To what avail was I doing this, why was I constantly doing things to hurt me.
Keep coming back and regardless if he goes on vacation or not .. your business is to take care of you. His business is to figure out if he wants to keep drinking or get sober.
Hugs S :)
I so know that feeling of trying to keep the alcoholic from causing harm. It makes us into police officers, doesn't it?
The thing is that he can blow into a breathalyzer before he gets into the car, but the second he's out of the driveway he can pull a mini-bottle out of his pocket and get roaring drunk. Or he can drive straight to the liquor store. And then he can drive drunk the rest of the day.
When they say the Three C's - you didn't Cause it, you can't Cure it, you can't Control it - they really mean it. We can't control it.
If an adult wants to go to Florida, I think that's his choice. Of course his choice may have consequences. He may get arrested down there, he may get into trouble, etc. (All of these are true anywhere he goes.) It may be necessary trouble. He may find that his wife/partner is fed up with living with alcoholism and decides to separate. It may be that he just lives his same old miserable life for a while. Whichever, those are his consequences to have.
The Al-Anon saying is "He's going to do what he's going to do, what are you going to do?"
Hope you'll take good care of yourself.
Much like El-Cee, I had to let go and determine my own boundaries. I can say that my first one was to not give money or fund 'wants'. I would assist with needs if absolutely necessary - I closed the Bank. I would not work harder for another to vacation. If mine could not make their own money or seek loans for their wants, it was not my issue.
I do know that it's a bit difficult when married and funds are combined. Yet, we are still not hostages to the behavior of others. I would not stand in the way, but I certainly would not enable/fund the trip. I also would make it really clear that any issues that come up as a result of his choices, during vacation/otherwise, are not mine to manage.
I've gone so far as to make sure mine know I have a one/done policy on bail from jail. If they land there, even for a parking ticket, I am not getting them out. The exception - if they have money on account here. I had to treat mine as if they were not related to establish healthy boundaries.
Good luck - the program, meetings, steps, sponsor, etc. were necessary for my own personal growth. Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery...
Let Live.
I too was in denial or actually clueless that my husband's drinking was a problem... for a very long time, we were married over 30 years. Now I try to forgive myself for not knowing or not seeing, because denial is a natural mechanism to protect us from things we are not ready to take on. And I believe the same is true for the alcoholic.
For a while, we also had an agreement -- his idea -- that I would control the alcohol in the house, and dole out small amounts "for cooking purposes." I call that my Wine Sommelier period. I was really proud of him for "not drinking." It turns out he was. With the help of Al-Anon, I have been able to let go of my anger over things like that.
As Hotrod said, I also benefited from mini-vacations for myself. When things were at their darkest -- the horrible health consequences caught up with my husband -- I opened up to a few close friends about what was going on. A dear friend invited me to stay at her condo on the beach, so it was very little expense to me. I also saw a therapist through the EAP program at my work. I consulted a lawyer for advice on how to keep my finances separate. I believe that investing in myself was a good investment.
There is hope. My experience was that "the only way out is through." Keep coming back, read, listen, take care of yourself. You are not alone.
Big hugs,
I think your position is interesting to me from the stand point I always had the attitude leaving my XAH was not an issue if it was my only option (at the time it was he was in major self destruct, our survival was first). That being said .. I can't divorce my kids and that scares me because I am horrible at personal relationships. So boundaries for me are key. I do remember expanding so much energy I had nothing left for anyone let alone myself and my XAH was my obsession. I can't go down that road again.
My key components are my blood pressure is going to remain calm regardless of the situation and trust me I have been put through the ringer lately with my oldest. I have discovered my parenting has become whack a mole .. meaning .. I get one flying right although wobbly and the other one decides to take off and nose dive .. it's a little like herding cats towards a bath and no one is coming out alive. I'm so not appreciating the adventure, however I signed up for it when I asked to be sole custodian. The other thing is my anxiety over their choices. I am not here to live their life lessons. So I struggle to watch them struggle and with my oldest see a couple of train wrecks and have had to make the hard call of that's why you have a therapist. Not me .. the oldest ... lol .. I just can't at the moment and I am ok with my limitations. Now I will participate in the therapy with them .. I am not their therapist that's not to say I ignore their issues .. we have a couple of topics off limits. One big one, we have agreed to disagree on and we seem to have come to a resolve although my oldest seems to think they are going to slip it in on me and got a rude awakening.
I just came to a point with my XAH of being sick and tired of being sick and tired and thank GOD for Alanon because without it I would have been a bigger mess than I can be at times. My higher power whom I call God, has taught me that things I obsess over have a way of working themselves out. I don't need to worry I just need to relax for a bit and take care of me first.
Big hugs and just keep coming back, S :)
Yesterday was a long stressful day. I can only say I'm blessed to have a job I love! I get home late usually around 9 pm. I grab my constant always by my side eReader. Log into AL anon and find so much wonderful insights. Thank you al! Gives me hope to think I just might find some peace. I hope I can achieve this before God decides to call me home. My 1st Post was on March 7th. Looking at it now and rereading everyones thoughts it amazes me how far I've came in my thinking in such a short time. Time is the key "word". I've proven all the doctors wrong, I'm still here. I have always believed your destiny has already been placed in stone. But how I live and love is not. So how do I find peace? Will I find it in time to enjoy it? I don't know but after only 3 months on this journey believe I might find some. (((Serenity))) I so so understand the Blood Pressure issues. I have among other heart issues is "Malignant Hypertension" my normal seems to be increasing everyday. It stays around 240/130. Never getting under 210/100 and thats highly medicated. My life and the way I'm forced to live does not go hand in hand with this illness. I have a lot to ponder and soul search. Today is a good day to submerge myself in self awakening. To start today's journey I'll go to the meeting.
Laurie aka StarryAmmo
-- Edited by StarryAmmo on Thursday 22nd of March 2018 08:28:48 AM
Two separate journeys, right? Focus on you. Work with your sponsor. You said "1. I will do what I can to stop the drinking and driving." -- you may want to look at that. Is it your job to stop the drinking and driving. If you don't want to get into a car with him, when he's been drinking, I get that. No problem. That's a very good decision. But, as far as him driving -- that's up to him. Not giving him money, I get it. Another great move -- not enabling, not participating. Now, you "hold his narcotics with his blessing." You might want to check your motives and talk to your sponsor about this. Control? Force will even though you have his blessing? Want what you want?
As far as the vacation -- you ask "Who's going to make sure he doesn't get behind the wheel." and further say "...but he WILL ask to borrow a car to go to the store to get his alcohol." -- how does this sound to you? Having his family enforce boundaries, to control him, are not boundaries. They are controlling measures. If that's the goal, go for it. My experience, just for me, my case, I only got better, after I stopped doing those things. I did the work, did the steps, learned, made changes -- and I was doing everything and more of what you are talking about -- and when I stopped, I got better, I got healthy. Before that I wasn't living -- I had full-time job policing her, getting her family on board, involved, having them join me in trying to control her and stop the drinking. Sounds like what you are doing? You said "But my AH doesn't want to continue our routine while in Florida." and then you immediately state "I can't and will not control an alcoholic. We all know that's impossible." -- are you trying to though? Early on, I viewed healthy as my efforts to control my wife's drinking.
So to answer your question -- no, I don't think what you are portraying is healthy. Work with your sponsor. Our thinking sometimes becomes so distorted that healthy and normal become distorted.
By the way, is paying for the vacation something you are willing to do? Is that acceptable to you? It doesn't sound like it is.
.....Bo..... Good points to look at. I've also noticed my thinking is almost as insane as my AH. I've never set up boundaries within our marriage, always the good wife and mother. Loving, Nurturing and Compassionate. Now realizing to the point of being Unhealthy. Always taking care of others and never taking care of myself. Sitting here looking back on the time period of the Peak of his narcotic addiction I have had a few revelations. I believe he wanted me to FIX it. I always fixed what was and is broken. It didn't work. At that point his addiction caused the loss of our home and a VERY good job. I never thought "me" would be homeless. A dirty secret no one knew. I worked miracles and found another home after 6 months of hard work on my part. I think my AH was worried I'd leave. Maybe I should of. Still don't understand why I continued on the path of insanity. My AH takes no responsiblites in any fixes. When he asked me to handle his meds I thought he was making progress. I was so wrong. Yes the narcotic issues went away BUT that just opened the door to another addiction. Another thing I'm very strong on, drinking & driving. I only check his alcohol levels when I get into the car. Of course I realize I can't stop him from drinking as soon as I get out. With him going to Florida and driving scares me. I don't know how to handle this felling. Almost to the point of being petrified! Finding a way out of this fear Is overwelming me. His family knows but he lies to them they think he's in recovery. But it's not my place to tell them he's never been in recovery. I also tried the "Intervention" method years ago. Didn't work, he took over the intervention and turned it into "Interrogation" of us as a family unit. So far most everyones EHS IS if he wants to go let him. I do have a choice not to fund this vacation. THEN my next thought is "Here's another resentment rearing it's ugly head again". He will take 10 days off. Almost 2 weeks of lost wages. I always seem to take 1 step forward and 6 steps backwards. It's taken 27 years to create the monsters lurking within my thinking. I know it will take so much work and time to try and right this the best I can, I'm so impatient. Just so much sadness, fear, worry and resentment. Can I even "Fix" myself? But thank you Bo! Some of us respond better with directness I thinks it's because I'm very much a type A personality. So now to keep what's healthy in my boundaries and remove what's unhealthy.
Life can come crashing down due to the disease of addiction. Mine did. While I had the ability -- through legal and financial ways -- to ultimately protect myself, asets, my exposure/liability, etc., while all of this was going on, the marriage did not go unscathed. I handled her meds too. A 40 year old, Ivy league educated, executive. And I handled her meds...because she asked me to? Don't do for someone else something they should and could be doing for themselves. I was told so many times. But I didn't listen. Not at first. I finally did.
You are making progress though -- you now know you can't control his drinking and driving, and you are focusing on YOU and how to handle the feelings of fear while he is in FL. That's great!!! Great for you!!! That's amazing progress!!! Go talk to your sponsor about this and he/she will work with you, guide you, and you will learn acceptance, surrender, and letting go.
I found that a loving, nurturing, and very much so compassionate spouse CAN set up boundaries while being all of those things. Being those things doesn't happen because we don't have boundaries. Actually, I think that spouse WILL have boundaries. They are not exclusive.
That said -- go to work! LOL. You are doing great. Keep focusing on YOU.
Living with an AH is like living with the circus with all the monkeys riding the Rollercoaster! I believe my world has exploded into a million peices. He's going to Florida and finally told me where a large sum of money went. (Money from a construction job he did) first real paycheck in years. Needed for bills which he helped build while not working. Just found out he paid for his part of the trip. So, PUFF gone on car rental and gas cards. I'm beyond LIVID. I always say this man will be the death of me. This time he pushed my BP 289/150. So how I'm medicating myself which will help me detach because I'll be asleep. They puts me out. I used the saying "Say what you Mean Mean what you say, but don't say it Mean" am I close? I asked him to stay in Florida. I'm not upset with him leaving and not coming back, I'm more upset with the financial mess he's leaving me with. But right now I'm numb. Trying not to think about all the things I need to deal with starting tomorrow morning.
Laurie, you are only in the program for three months, and while you are starting to grasp some of the tools of the program -- you are not yet in a place of real recovery. Making decisions right now would be making decisions from a place of anger, resentment, aggression, duress, and probably more things that you are feeling. And, those feelings are overwhelming -- they are overwhelming you. Now, this is normal, so don't fight it. Acceptance, surrender, and letting go.
Now, if you were in program longer, maybe 6 months -- 6 months of real work, meeting with your sponsor, working with him/her, making changes, being in a place of acceptance, starting to get past the anger and resentment, having given up your desire to control him and get him to stop, and had more progress...then...you might be in a position of making decisions from a place of intellect, strength, healthy thinking, and so forth.
From my experience, when I was going through all of this, much of what you are going through, when I started doing the work...my goal was to get better, to get healthy...so that I could arrive at a place where I could ask myself -- and answer -- the question...is this the way I want to live my life? Is this the life I want to live?
I got there. You will too. Keep doing your work. Keep coming back.
Now, that said, if you've asked him to stay in FL...good for you! I am proud of you and I admire and respect your courage. And if he doesn't stay? If he doesn't make it easy for you? Keep doing your work. Keep coming back.
Boy do I relate! My AH is making all sorts of new job and financial decisions, all without any input from me, consideration, or even a conversation.
He is busy with whatever, making a mess....but I can't control him. He will do what he will do, period. The only thing I can do is minimize the impact the choices will have on me, by making some different choices for myself. I will not be able to control anything he does, so I am committed to not trying to. My AH tends to blame everyone for everything, so honestly it is kind of freeing to no longer try to hold controls, it gave him an easy route to blaming me. I am sure he will do so anyway, but he will have a much harder time trying to make that argument.
When he gets frustrated with me, he loves to threaten leaving or a break up....I just don't accept the invitation to the fight, BUT boy, am I ever tempted to tell him that I agree! I don't know what the future holds for us, and that's ok, I don't need to know that now. I don't want to react from frustration, impulse, or anger, so for me, today I keep working on my recovery, focusing on myself, detachment, and trying to find serenity, in spite of his actions. I know I am still to angry to make any decisions yet.
I hope you have a peaceful few days while your AH is away. I would view it as a mini vacation for myself either way. Obviously only you can decide what is best for you, and your health, and if you are ready to end it, it's certainly understandable! Hoping for peace, rest, and relaxation for you.
I am so sorry this is impacting you negatively .. especially financially. I would def be finding a way to protect myself financially and just cut that off. It sounds like you are able to financially do things on your own.
One thing I have heard across the board and this was true for me when the seriousness of what alcoholism was doing to me health wise it was crazy .. my blood pressure was through the roof when I moved out the same state my blood pressure dropped by 40 points that is HUGE. I remember the day of court I happened to have a Dr appointment and my Dr was so upset because it was so high I should have been stroking out .. it was a mess. As I detangled from my XAH I was able to get healthier .. not to say I couldn't do better now .. however I am soooo much better than I was, I need to loose a little weight .. I will take that over the blood pressure and constant anxiety attacks I was having and didn't know it. I thought I was dying very literally.
I hope you are able to relax and take a breath because for me it really made me realize how neglectful I had been and there was no one there who had my back and that was scarier because of the fact I had 2 minor children at the time and I was leaving them to what?
Keep coming back. S :)
I have no words to express how much it helps to know so many people would take the time out of their day to extend heartfelt messages. So far I've gotten 1 text 1 phone call and 1 email. I haven't responded to any of them. I don't know if that is the right way to handle this? I just don't want to be baited into coming unraveled. So far I'm enjoying my quiet. It's only been 16 hours since he left. He's already in Florida 600 miles away. For being such a short amount of time I feel lighter. I don't have to hear him slur, worry about if he's drank too much and get mean & nasty. Or setting his meds up for morning. He left under the pretense that he NOT coming home. My youngest who's 23 talked to him this afternoon and said he was already on his way to getting drunk. You know what? I didn't care. First thought might seem mean but it was "it's not me babysitting today" yes immature, but felt so liberating to feel free? I've been all over the map in regards to my fèelings. One minute I'm angry, for what he dropped in my lap. (He was laughing and making jokes during the trip while talking to our son.) I had to repeat "One day at a time" for me One minute at a time. Then the next minute while sitting in my office I feel like crying, overwhelming fèelings that I've been screwed (sorry) outta 27 years. 30 minutes later I feel calm, peaceful telling myself I could get used to this. As I've said before I have a long way to go to recovery and finding "Laurie". I feel I've lifted 1,000 lbs of burden and heartache as of 4 am this morning. Once again THANK YOU!!!! After 12 hours at work I have my first night of unburdening . I know not a word but right now sounds so rigjt. My youngest is here for emotional support which I need no words from him, just being here is enough. Chinese Take Out is all we need this MINUTE.
Oops gotta say something to Stan1!! You mentioned Puppies! I have 2 of them. One's name is Star and the a other Ammo. Star weights 4 lbs and Ammo 20 Lbs. They are my children now that my 3 are grown up. Yes they help with movement and enjoyment! Thank you for your post!!!!
I like what you said about how it felt liberating to feel free. I've found the anger still lingers sometimes. It goes dormant, quiet, or whatever you want to call it...but for me, over time, when I immersed myself into acceptance, surrender, letting go, and detachment -- I got past all of the anger and resentment. Today, I am "unoffendable" and don't allow any of that to infiltrate my world. I just don't interact with unhealthy people when given the choice.
The chaos that was left behind, is what I call the "collateral damage" part of this disease. And, there can be a lot of it.
Miracles do happen.
Hope you enjoyed the Chinese take-out!!! LOL.
Which means you can say NO! Let him pay for it if he wants to go. If he wants to get drunk and drive that's his problem. If he drives others who know he is drunk, that's their problem.
You pay? You can say NO!