To recap, my AH is in rehab since Nov 4th. He is currently doing so well that they have him in their RA program. My son has seen him several times due to passes from rehab (always with another family member(s) present. I have seen him only once... at our tax appointment last month. He has been served the divorce papers. He has now earned his cell phone back apparently, b/c he called from his cell on Sunday, then "butt-dialed" me twice late that night (I said, "Hello" several times, but no answer, just noises)
Today: Just received a text that read, "I love you PNP, I hope you are doing OK."
Directly after that, I got a call from him (I am not NC due to underage kid). He called to tell me that he was sorry about the text, that it was just habit (meaning the wording). I could tell he was or had been crying. I told him I was doing homework, and hadn't even looked at the text, but thank you. We then hung up.
After reading the text, now I understand the call. However, today the wording does not bother me b/c I am confident in my path forward (thank you MIP/Al-Anon!). But at this point, I am not furious at him... I am just sad. Sad for the end of our marriage, sad that he allowed addiction back into his life and thereby my life, but also sad that he is dealing with his sadness. I guess it is pity I feel for him, sadness for me.
I would like to text back that I appreciated the call to clarify, and that I understand old habits die hard. I want to say "I am sorry the consequences are so hard on you," but I am not sorry. Is there a better word to insert here? I am all about saying what you mean, meaning what you say and not saying it mean. I want to gently remind him that little contact is best for me. He doesn't need to know that I am not "sorry," but some other way to let him know that I harbor no ill feelings for that text, but don't feel the need to update him on how I am doing.
Or, is that my empath/codie behavior talking, and I shouldn't even bother to respond?
Thank you!
Jerry F said
Mar 15, 2018
Poises and Puppies...you got it okay for now and until time opens up more doors and windows of understanding. You may be protecting "your stand" on the issue best you can for now. You seem to have a good handle at the moment on compassion and empathy which for me became so much more a miracle rather than being addicted to resentment, justifications and blame...what a relief to come to understand the better definition of love which as taught to me by another AFG member is, "The complete and total acceptance of all others for exactly who they are."
I find your post settles very nicely with that lesson. I struggled to the point where you are at with my own alcoholic/addict wife and then addressed my enabling personality (not bad) in part of not wanting to make her recovery harder than I supposed and had heard from other alcoholics and addicts. Being supportive is a natural part of my personality. I had to learn how to apply it properly.
Follow your plan for PnP as you know you want it to be. I'm in support of it with you. It worked for me. (((((Hugs)))))
SerenityRUS said
Mar 15, 2018
Hugs PNP,
I had a discussion with my son about the current behavior and had to remind myself many times that send is not my friend. That meant typing things out and pressing delete multiple times. The biggest thing I hate about texting is that there is an emotional disconnect of responsibility .. my XAH did this a lot after all it wasn't his issue if I took something the wrong way. (I'm eyeball rolling .. lol). Anyway, what I did say was I did apologize because my behavior was a reaction instead of a response, I clarified my boundaries, and I then stated what my expectation was and what my response would be going forward. This is different than dealing with a soon to be X in my opinion .. biggest reason .. this is my kiddo. The feelings I have are not the same charge as they would be in dealing with my X .. meaning .. less mind fields.
If I were having a similar discussion with my X (granted he has no program that I am aware of) I would choose to let it go .. sometimes I allow myself to get sucked into conversations that are completely unnecessary. Your STBX apologized and you made your statements already .. there is nothing more to say. Sometimes in receiving a text message I don't respond because it's what I call a non response message .. they made their statement I received it .. that's the end of it.
So if you are asking my opinion you have already had the conversation and there is nothing more to say.
Hugs S :)
Mattie said
Mar 15, 2018
My experience is that it is so, so hard for us codies not to be re-entangled. I so know that feeling of wanting to say something, wanting to clarify, wanting what I said to be the exact right thing... Whenever he made contact, it would end with me in turmoil about something he'd said or not said, or something I'd said or not said...
I kept having to remind myself, "Recovery isn't winning, it's not playing."
I think "When in doubt, don't" also saved me from plunging down some rabbit holes.
Take good care of yourself.
Iamhere said
Mar 15, 2018
(((PnP))) - I am one who often ( now - used to be always) overthinks things. My sponsor has been golden in helping me see that often, my want/need to respond is my own defense mechanism is self-absolution. I am reminded over and over again that recovery is about me, and keeping the eye on me. When I have gotten 'here' - should I or shouldn't I, she suggests I take a look at my boundaries and determine if new are required or if existing need to be modified.
If you need/want no contact, you have the right to request it. If you aren't sure, I agree with Mattie's, When in Doubt, Don't." You both deserve the space you need/want to work on recovery. There is no shame in asking for that. Like Jerry said, be true to you and trust the program - the answers will continue to roll in.
Sending you positive thoughts and prayers - there is also no shame in feeling sad for yourself and/or for him and/or the relationship. Even when relationships end badly, there were good things or you wouldn't have married in the first place. I have to take myself back often to where we started to remember this is a good person who has a horrible disease. Hang in there girl - you got this!!
PosiesandPuppies said
Mar 16, 2018
Thank you all for your ESH! Your support means more than you'll ever know.
Jerry, as an empath, my natural inclination is to support... to uplift in some way. I now know that I don't always (how did you say it?) apply it properly. This is still a work in progress for me. I find not sitting with resentment is far better for my psyche... so even though I can be mad and/or sad at this end of a marriage, I am choosing to try to be neutral. I am not sure if I accept him for who he is right now... but I am certainly working on it! Thank you for your support!
Serenity and IAH - While at work today, I came about the realization of just about what you both mentioned! I tried to actively think of why I felt it was important to text back (b/c it didn't seem like his statement needed an answer), you know, what was my motivation? I began to think that what I really wanted is for him to know that I am not this cold-hearted b*tch... that I care, but I can no longer love him. Because when I speak with him, I think of "gray rock," so that I don't get too emotional. I think it comes off like I don't care about him at all. In examining this thinking process (after reading your replies), I don't believe I need to prove that. Therefore I have decided to just leave this text alone.
Thank you all for being supportive, and helping me to feel positive about the choices I make.
Namaste
Bo said
Mar 16, 2018
Starting with your question...no, you don't have to reply. Next, since you used the word "shouldn't" first, I'll speak to should or shouldn't...and my response is, you shouldn't reply. Your first reference was "I would like to reply" -- and you didn't say I feel I should, I need to, I must. So, here is a good opportunity to look at you, focus on you, and talk to your sponsor about why you wanted, felt, etc. You mentioned codependent, empathy, and that's good. So work on that, get objectivity from your sponsor. For me, I look at me and why I feel the need or desire to call and to say the "sorry" for what you are going through kind of thing. I really needed to look at that. No cont my act was best for me, so I always made sure I honored my own boundaries -- and I didn't want to participate, perpetuate, or hit back the ping pong ball, even if it was a nice text or call, LOL.
From my experience, part of me "mourned" the loss of a marriage. Yes, my marriage, but it's natural to mourn the loss of a marriage. But I also felt it was -- my decision, the best decision I ever made, and the necessary decision that was healthiest and best for me. But that's "me" -- my core. I don't need to share, explain, etc., to anyone, especially my ex! LOL.
Iamhere said
Mar 16, 2018
(((PnP))) - when we just pause and bring it back to self, I believe the answers come to us. Good on you for finding the answers that work for you. In my growth, I am able to share simple things like, "I truly just want you happy, joyous and free because I care." I don't have to say any more or any less as this is my truth. My growth and my HP truly does want me to love my neighbor - all of them - in spite of their defects or mine....I believe my definitions of love have changed too over time. I have always loved the statement, "I need to love you/them from across the street.
There is no shame in wanting good for others, and I get what you're saying - being very black/white in my thinking and processing before recovery, I too came across as cold when I was trying to detach and protect self. As you continue to grow, I suspect you'll find that change up a bit and soften.
(((Hugs))) - way to go!!
Jerry F said
Mar 16, 2018
PnP i learned about empathy and compassion in the rooms of Al-Anon and the empathetic lessons given to me convinced me that the fellowship that shared really cared. I was taught empathy meant caring for and compassion feeling with which I came to accept that my teachers/sponsors knew what they were talking about and how to move my heart and emotions. Today I can claim to be an empath also. All of the experiences of and in recovery have made that real and I learned to truly love my alcoholic/addict wife - after the divorce as I do at the moment. Thanks for staying with the thread it is how I continue to learn. ((((hugs))))
To recap, my AH is in rehab since Nov 4th. He is currently doing so well that they have him in their RA program. My son has seen him several times due to passes from rehab (always with another family member(s) present. I have seen him only once... at our tax appointment last month. He has been served the divorce papers. He has now earned his cell phone back apparently, b/c he called from his cell on Sunday, then "butt-dialed" me twice late that night (I said, "Hello" several times, but no answer, just noises)
Today: Just received a text that read, "I love you PNP, I hope you are doing OK."
Directly after that, I got a call from him (I am not NC due to underage kid). He called to tell me that he was sorry about the text, that it was just habit (meaning the wording). I could tell he was or had been crying. I told him I was doing homework, and hadn't even looked at the text, but thank you. We then hung up.
After reading the text, now I understand the call. However, today the wording does not bother me b/c I am confident in my path forward (thank you MIP/Al-Anon!). But at this point, I am not furious at him... I am just sad. Sad for the end of our marriage, sad that he allowed addiction back into his life and thereby my life, but also sad that he is dealing with his sadness. I guess it is pity I feel for him, sadness for me.
I would like to text back that I appreciated the call to clarify, and that I understand old habits die hard. I want to say "I am sorry the consequences are so hard on you," but I am not sorry. Is there a better word to insert here? I am all about saying what you mean, meaning what you say and not saying it mean. I want to gently remind him that little contact is best for me. He doesn't need to know that I am not "sorry," but some other way to let him know that I harbor no ill feelings for that text, but don't feel the need to update him on how I am doing.
Or, is that my empath/codie behavior talking, and I shouldn't even bother to respond?
Thank you!
Poises and Puppies...you got it okay for now and until time opens up more doors and windows of understanding. You may be protecting "your stand" on the issue best you can for now. You seem to have a good handle at the moment on compassion and empathy which for me became so much more a miracle rather than being addicted to resentment, justifications and blame...what a relief to come to understand the better definition of love which as taught to me by another AFG member is, "The complete and total acceptance of all others for exactly who they are."
I find your post settles very nicely with that lesson. I struggled to the point where you are at with my own alcoholic/addict wife and then addressed my enabling personality (not bad) in part of not wanting to make her recovery harder than I supposed and had heard from other alcoholics and addicts. Being supportive is a natural part of my personality. I had to learn how to apply it properly.
Follow your plan for PnP as you know you want it to be. I'm in support of it with you. It worked for me. (((((Hugs)))))
I had a discussion with my son about the current behavior and had to remind myself many times that send is not my friend. That meant typing things out and pressing delete multiple times. The biggest thing I hate about texting is that there is an emotional disconnect of responsibility .. my XAH did this a lot after all it wasn't his issue if I took something the wrong way. (I'm eyeball rolling .. lol). Anyway, what I did say was I did apologize because my behavior was a reaction instead of a response, I clarified my boundaries, and I then stated what my expectation was and what my response would be going forward. This is different than dealing with a soon to be X in my opinion .. biggest reason .. this is my kiddo. The feelings I have are not the same charge as they would be in dealing with my X .. meaning .. less mind fields.
If I were having a similar discussion with my X (granted he has no program that I am aware of) I would choose to let it go .. sometimes I allow myself to get sucked into conversations that are completely unnecessary. Your STBX apologized and you made your statements already .. there is nothing more to say. Sometimes in receiving a text message I don't respond because it's what I call a non response message .. they made their statement I received it .. that's the end of it.
So if you are asking my opinion you have already had the conversation and there is nothing more to say.
Hugs S :)
My experience is that it is so, so hard for us codies not to be re-entangled. I so know that feeling of wanting to say something, wanting to clarify, wanting what I said to be the exact right thing... Whenever he made contact, it would end with me in turmoil about something he'd said or not said, or something I'd said or not said...
I kept having to remind myself, "Recovery isn't winning, it's not playing."
I think "When in doubt, don't" also saved me from plunging down some rabbit holes.
Take good care of yourself.
If you need/want no contact, you have the right to request it. If you aren't sure, I agree with Mattie's, When in Doubt, Don't." You both deserve the space you need/want to work on recovery. There is no shame in asking for that. Like Jerry said, be true to you and trust the program - the answers will continue to roll in.
Sending you positive thoughts and prayers - there is also no shame in feeling sad for yourself and/or for him and/or the relationship. Even when relationships end badly, there were good things or you wouldn't have married in the first place. I have to take myself back often to where we started to remember this is a good person who has a horrible disease. Hang in there girl - you got this!!
Jerry, as an empath, my natural inclination is to support... to uplift in some way. I now know that I don't always (how did you say it?) apply it properly. This is still a work in progress for me. I find not sitting with resentment is far better for my psyche... so even though I can be mad and/or sad at this end of a marriage, I am choosing to try to be neutral. I am not sure if I accept him for who he is right now... but I am certainly working on it! Thank you for your support!
Serenity and IAH - While at work today, I came about the realization of just about what you both mentioned! I tried to actively think of why I felt it was important to text back (b/c it didn't seem like his statement needed an answer), you know, what was my motivation? I began to think that what I really wanted is for him to know that I am not this cold-hearted b*tch... that I care, but I can no longer love him. Because when I speak with him, I think of "gray rock," so that I don't get too emotional. I think it comes off like I don't care about him at all. In examining this thinking process (after reading your replies), I don't believe I need to prove that. Therefore I have decided to just leave this text alone.
Thank you all for being supportive, and helping me to feel positive about the choices I make.
Namaste
Starting with your question...no, you don't have to reply. Next, since you used the word "shouldn't" first, I'll speak to should or shouldn't...and my response is, you shouldn't reply. Your first reference was "I would like to reply" -- and you didn't say I feel I should, I need to, I must. So, here is a good opportunity to look at you, focus on you, and talk to your sponsor about why you wanted, felt, etc. You mentioned codependent, empathy, and that's good. So work on that, get objectivity from your sponsor. For me, I look at me and why I feel the need or desire to call and to say the "sorry" for what you are going through kind of thing. I really needed to look at that. No cont my act was best for me, so I always made sure I honored my own boundaries -- and I didn't want to participate, perpetuate, or hit back the ping pong ball, even if it was a nice text or call, LOL.
From my experience, part of me "mourned" the loss of a marriage. Yes, my marriage, but it's natural to mourn the loss of a marriage. But I also felt it was -- my decision, the best decision I ever made, and the necessary decision that was healthiest and best for me. But that's "me" -- my core. I don't need to share, explain, etc., to anyone, especially my ex! LOL.
There is no shame in wanting good for others, and I get what you're saying - being very black/white in my thinking and processing before recovery, I too came across as cold when I was trying to detach and protect self. As you continue to grow, I suspect you'll find that change up a bit and soften.
(((Hugs))) - way to go!!
PnP i learned about empathy and compassion in the rooms of Al-Anon and the empathetic lessons given to me convinced me that the fellowship that shared really cared. I was taught empathy meant caring for and compassion feeling with which I came to accept that my teachers/sponsors knew what they were talking about and how to move my heart and emotions. Today I can claim to be an empath also. All of the experiences of and in recovery have made that real and I learned to truly love my alcoholic/addict wife - after the divorce as I do at the moment. Thanks for staying with the thread it is how I continue to learn. ((((hugs))))