Tonight I came home from work and knew my husband had been drinking.  When he sobered up I asked him what happened today that he was drinking again.  He lied and kept telling me he didn't drink and all sorts of stories of asking why I think that.  He finally admitted to drinking.  I tried to have an open dialog and discuss seeing a therapist or calling his sponsor. He has two.  He lies to them too and doesn't admit he is drinking. I offered to go to open meetings with him.  We've gone to couples counseling.  I know I don't cause or cure this horrendous disease.  After awhile of talking and no plans or decisions to change I became very very angry, was screaming about what it feels like to be lied to constantly.  I lost it.  Maybe the outburst of anger did me good. We discussed separating - he doesn't want to.  I am so disgusted.  Why should I have to pack up and leave and go to all the work of finding an apartment to get peace of mind.  I think he should leave.  He said he isn't.  Then there is my fear of living by myself, being alone; all kinds of emotional agony.   Any help, advice or words of wisdom would be appreciated.

I think the lying is part of their denial. 

Am anon can be really helpful for you in de escalating and detaching.  Of course it is very difficult to deal with an alcoholic in denial.  At the same time it is important to keep from going overboard  I always thought with the now ex A my getting upset might affect him.  In fact he always made it about #me# He convinced people I was the one with the problem. 

Denial in substance abuse is very common any therapist and sponsor would expect to be lied to.  Remember thge sponsor is an alcoholic in recovery.   They know all the ruses. 

The important thing is to be out if the red raw place  There are a lot of things you can do.  One is to focus on whaat is goijng right in your life .  Even at my lowesr points there have been some things that were going well in my life  .

Then there is seeking out support and fellowship  

In addition focusing on your own self care  Take care eat right try to rest (that is a hard one)   

I felt abandoned by the now ex A   Unfortunately when I was feeling like that I was not exactly taking care of myself 

Of course the ex A wanted me to focus on him.  When I finally got to detach and stopped arguing with him he was really thrown off     

The arguing is a big part of being around an alcoholic  When all of us are under stress we go into black and white thinking. 

I hope you will find a way to be willing to look at al anon   For me it was desperation and deep pain   I was very upset. 

I could not go on with that level of despair and feeling of failure 

The lying is definitely part of the whole syndrome. So is not wanting to stop.

It's true that you shouldn't have to be the one to move.  You shouldn't have to go out of your way to do anything because of his bad decisions.  The unfortunate but true part is that if you want to protect yourself, you're the only one who will take action to make that happen.  So maybe moving is not a bad decision after all.  Or maybe you can get a lawyer's advice on how to make your A be the one to move out, depending on your specific situation.

I too had that overwhelming fear of being alone.  And especially of dealing with the huge emotional aftershocks of being with a drinker.  A community, like a good Al-Anon meeting (and maybe a sponsor) can be a big help there.  And I also found that actually being "alone" was more peaceful than being with a chaotic, lying drinker.  Being with a drinker is just a more complicated form of being alone, since they're not emotionally present anyway. 

Take good care of yourself.  Hugs.

Your post/share sounds so much like me when I walked into my first face to face alanon meeting. I feel your pain, fear, frustration, anger, and everything else that I also felt. My experience was that all I did was talk about how she was drinking, said she wasn't, how I questioned her, how she was lying, her stories and deflections, and so on and so on and so on. A seasoned person, a very nice woman asked me "what about you?" -- and that's all she said. I asked "what do you mean?" She repeated, what about you. I said well, she finally admitted she was drinking, so I am glad I got her to admit that, glad I got that battle out of the way -- and she said, no, I asked what about you...not her...you! I didn't get it.

I too tried to have these open and honest conversations with my wife. I heard in face to face alanon meetings that you can't apply logic to an illogical person. You can't apply logic to an illogical situation. And, you can't apply logic to an illogical sickness/disease. I went down the same roads as you did -- couples counselling, offering to take her and go with her to meetings, etc. Whose decision was it though? Hers or mine? I also heard in my first meeting...the alcoholic/addict will not quit drinking/using drugs UNLESS and UNTIL they want to...and there is nothing I can do about that. I threatened, I loved, I talked, I gave speeches that touched, moved, and inspired all who heard it, except for her of course, I threw money at it, I gave ultimatums, I gave ideas, I suggested, I enforced, I did it all! Been there done that -- tried it all. LOL. When my wife quit because of any of those things I did, she didn't quit. She simply appeased me. It was a day or two. Maybe a week. But she didn't want to. So she didn't. If she did want to, she would have. But she didn't.

As far as the lying, I can only say that the more I tried to figure it out, the more I drove myself crazy. The more angry I got. The more aggravated I got. And the more pain I felt. And, the more scared I got. She lied about foolish things. It is part of the disease. I have learned so much about that now, and being a student and teacher of advanced adult education -- while I get it, intellectually -- it is not rational. The alcoholic/addict at some point cannot face any truths. But that's not my business. My business is me. I have to focus on me and how I get better. Detachment helped me tremendously -- physical and emotional. That came after acceptance however, and part of that acceptance was "letting go" and surrender and powerless -- and that's when I stopped trying to figure it all out (about her that is). I too didn't feel I should have to leave. Why? It's my house! LOL. Whatever. But she didn't want to, and my healthiness and being in a better, safer place, was more important that who left. So I did. I went from a huge, wonderful, beautiful house, which I built, our dream house -- to a peaceful, quaint, nice, 2BR condo. What I realized that was more prevalent than being alone was...coming home and not being afraid or having anxiety about whether or not she was drinking, or what was on the other side of the door. Lonely was a fear I created. There is a difference between being alone and being lonely.

You are just so "in it" with him -- he's lying to them, offering to go to open meetings with him, calling his sponsor, etc. I guess my question is...does he want to quit drinking and get better, healthy, clean and sober, live a life of recovery...or is it just that you want him to?

From my experience, I was better off, I was healthier, being alone, without her, and being lonely initially...than I was being with her, unhappy, unhealthy, and simply not being alone.

Keep coming back.

-- Edited by Bo on Thursday 15th of March 2018 09:21:45 AM

-- Edited by Bo on Thursday 15th of March 2018 09:32:58 AM

I'm sorry for the emotional anguish you're experiencing because of his drinking again. My response pretty much echoes hotrod's. I wish you both the best with your recoveries. Just wanted you to know you are not alone and cared about and supported here. By choosing to just live one day at a time we can keep our serenity and get greater clarity concerning decisions. (((hugs))) TT

Good title, emotional agony. This disease is too much for most of us just like the preamble says. We cant do it alone. You haven't mentioned Alanon meetings so I am assuming your still going it alone? If so, there is hope for you. I got to the point after just a short time in Alanon where I could see its a disease and all the screaming, shouting, reasoning, pleading etc was not going to stop a person with alcoholism from drinking, nothing. So where does that leave us? I learned that this is my life and I had to begin to see my life as a separate human being and allow others even those closest to me to be whoever they are drinking or not, completely up to them, completely. Your husband has the right to drink or not, sounds ridiculous when we know the damage it causes but its true. Then we have the right to live our own lives, 'Live and let Live' Its the only road to peace, serenity and happiness.

Its not easy to get into this way of thinking, our own thinking becomes distorted and we truly believe that our lives and happiness is soley dependant on another human beings sobriety. Its  not and never has been. Our life is our responsibility completely. Thats where the tools come in, detach with love is important, its about accepting what is right now, hes an alcoholic, it means there are certain truths attached that unless you accept them then you will continue to be frustrated angry and miserable. He is most likely going to lie about most things, he is most likely going to not take responsibility for finances, his job, parenting, being a husband a partner etc. Not while hes actively drinking so your needs belonging to you may need to get met in other ways. For me once I accepted life for what it was, not life as I wanted it to look but life as it is then I could get practical. Detaching then setting boundaries, working out what was acceptable for me and what was not. Simple small things. I stopped enabling to the best of my understanding, no money from me for drink, i had to stop feeding the deadly disease. Separating out finances, putting me first.

Its a lot and its a process that for me was really quite fast moving and is still ongoing.  Not sure it can be done without the full participation of the program.

I'm glad things are better for both you today. It's sounds like you have a loving relationship with open communication. I'm sorry you haven't been able to find a good meeting that focuses on the Alanon tools for recovery. I left a meeting like the one you  described last year. I am glad I found a few new meetings that are very good. Ones that focus on Alanon tools and offer one to one meetings for those who need it not just one to one for new members. That format seems to work well.

I believe what you've said about your husband and fighting urges more than giving into them. Honestly, I can't imagine what that must be like. I can't even resist dessert  Well, good he's chosen to return to his meetings. My bf once told me something interesting his first sponsor told him. He asked him if he wanted to stay recovered or be one of those guys with a lifetime's worth of monthly anniversary chips. You know it's not a contest but I have to believe it made him think a bit. Anyway, glad to hear you're taking good care of you on your side of the street. (((hugs))) TT

emotional agony i entirely relate to and yes good title .. emotional (emptiness ?) this disease leaves us feeling as empty as the bottle .. many times .. alcoholism is a thinking disease not just drinking disease .. that being said even when there is no drinking there remains distorted sometimes thinking on both ends ..  loving an alcoholic is too much for most of us too without spiritual help (sometimes that includes ourselves) ..

when i read your thread what also comes to my mind is what goes through many's minds more than likely in the beginning .. i'm not the one with the drinking problem, why should i have to go to meetings since he's the one with the problem .. not sure if that rings a bell but it's easy to assume we all know there's a problem (the drinking) ..  in my case, for the alcoholic alcohol was many times the solution for things they couldn't control (their feelings or own emptiness) i became the problem then when i came along saying let's talk 'feelings

hope you try those face to face meets for supports .. i came into this program for the alcoholic (i realized i need to keep coming back for me) ..