This one has really been on my mind lately especially as I deal with my oldest. What is the difference between the issue of Responsibility vs Expectation for me.
In watching my oldest struggle pretty hard this past semester one thing I have really seen is that what are my expectations in terms of behavior, doing well and so on, and a lot of that I have put on him. That's my issue not his. This semester has not been without its hiccups and a couple have me upset because of the stupidity and it is stupidity on their part. It's probably youth and lack of experience, however don't involve me and get upset when I say .. um .. that's not a good idea .. lol. You asked .. I didn't volunteer.
There is a big responsibility that I don't think has fully hit the full ramifications of the current choices going on. This is going to happen sooner than later. I am not interested in dealing with collateral fall out and trust me when I say it's not minor. My kid has the attitude don't worry it's all going to workout .. ok what's your plan .. what plan? Yah .. at least have a plan or something to say I have thought this through on some level .. yes the outcome can come out different and that's ok .. no plan tells me this is an impulse deal.
It's really been a struggle to just let it all go and I continue to let it go throughout the day. I tried to explain it in the issue of .. if I quit my job and go to my BF and say guess what I quit and I'm not going to find another job with no discussion. The fact that this impacts NOT just me this is everyone around us in terms of kids .. do you think he might be angry specifically when he hears I just quit? Or .. I come to him and say .. I have been trying to get pregnant for 6 months and the test came back positive .. sorry I didn't mention that to you .. you don't want anymore kids? I think he's probably going to have an issue considering that was NOT on the planning scale of our life. Again these decisions are not just about me.
So I am accepting my kid is choosing a different path. I am accepting that these are his choices. I am letting go of the expectations that I have had for them in terms of I did not want my kid either of them to struggle with the financial aspect of things the way I have, you would think that me providing the fact I'm a horrible example of what not to do .. lol. Both of them would be like umm .. yah .. need to do something different in that regard.
What I choose is not to be saddled with the consequences of those choices. If my kid chooses to ignore the responsibilities there is going to be some real life consequences of sorry that's completely out of my hands. It will utterly terrify me however I just can't anymore. The latest bomb is the last bomb I'm willing to deal with at this point and time .. hit me up in 6 years .. not today. It has turned into sounds like you better call your dad.
This is something I am really trying to learn to do in all aspects of my life .. allow people to be where they are .. however .. also allow me to be where I am and NOT deal with the collateral damage. I'm really tired of holding the empty bag. I think the most amusing part of all of this is that he's actually shocked I'm upset .. LOL. Let's see .. last semester and that disaster and now this ..
Thanks for letting me share .. S :)
Iamhere said
Mar 1, 2018
(((Serenity))) - I am so, so sorry for your pain. I guess my best ESH is for all that you write in dealing with your child, I can relate on many levels. I recall sitting at times with my head in my hands wondering how we got 'here' - time and time and time again, in spite of countless discussions on actions-consequences, they were so far removed from the 'reality' of life. It was tough, the hardest periods of my life were when mine became 'of age' and seemed determined to do everything differently than mainstream. It was then that I finally admitting I was also powerless over parenting and my life had become unmanageable.
I seriously used the steps to help me 'see' my part, learn how to let them go, set boundaries, trust my HP and theirs and set boundaries that would free me from being collaterally involved. They are now 25 and 23 and things have improved drastically yet I am still at times reminded of who I am and who they are and how different we are.
Mine are finally hearing that they are responsible for their lives and I did my job. I will not bail them out - financially, jail or otherwise. They have exhausted that part of me/us and actually call/text now a days just to check in. For years, I heard only when they were in need/want. They are maturing, albeit slower than desired, but growing, recovering and changing just as I am.
They both have debt that I never wanted for them. Neither is too concerned even though their credit rating is not good. They've opted to listen to friends and others and are learning what works and what doesn't. What I focus on is what's working - they are learning, they are alive and they are finding their way.
We are good parents. They are going to do their own thing. Even when we see the potential train-wreck, if they don't, it doesn't matter. Just keep aligned with your program and know - like all other things - this too shall pass. (((Hugs))) sweetie -- sending you positive thoughts and prayers!
el-cee said
Mar 1, 2018
I have also struggled with this. Letting go is hard and I imagine hard for everyone but for us with alcoholism in pur family it kinda adds another interesting dimension to normal. For me ive let go more and more because I believe or learned through program that letting go offers dignity to our children so I learned to say ok I trust you got this and I trust that you will learn your own lessons and grow through this experience. The spiritual path has given me comfort when watching my kids make choices that I want to scream are you kidding on here? I can't though cos for 1 I don't know for sure how anything is going to turn out. I can guess but im not God. I don't know the gifts on offer in the train crash that I can see coming and I don't have the right to stop the lesson. Very difficult. My son is v effected by alcoholism and has a problem with drink and for a while he would share detailed accounts of each and every catastrophe. I would boast to friends that we had a close relationship and he told me everything until I learned what manipulation looked like. I realised he was telling me every gorey detail because I would get panicky and become really 'helpful' as we do. In fact the more terrifying the better the helping from me. I learned to put an end to these conversations politley and kindly but they had to end. Thet werent good for me or him. Now we have a healthier relationship he doesnt share every horrible detail and i know they are still horrible because he's still drinking but he's taken some responsibility even in his denial and I'm not the fixer in his life anymore. Thanks God because the pain of knowing what I know about his drinking is bad enough never mind listening to each and every detail. I had to get free for my sanity and I lived learning that my higher power wants me to be free and live a good life. I'm not here to be at the mercy of anyone including my children who will have everything they need regardless of me. Not alanon but have you ever read the poem by kalil gibran called children? Very enlightening x
el-cee said
Mar 1, 2018
Also iamhere you set an amazing example of how you've let go if your boys. Your shares on this have been hugely comforting and helpful to me.thank you x
Maresie said
Mar 2, 2018
What an amazing piece of work for you to get through
I know when I an around alcohol8cs in general their narcissiusn is pretty difficult to deal with. I am usually stuck in there' trying to persuade them otherwise Now I.dont.
I heard this week my ex husband died. I have not seen him in decades He is not the man who drove me to al anon. I needed al anon then but I waant capable of it. Nevertheless I am struck by how single minded he was even in sobriety (He got so we after I left him) He had a bad back but continued to push it to a limit He actually had enough money to hire a fleet of workers. Something as simple as not taking care of yourself in the way he did led to his early death. His family have a history of longevity. He died suddenly. I am flooded with a lot of memories of his narcissism. Most of all of my inability to detach Needlesss to say he never got over that I left him.
For me it us spotting people like this that is so essential These days I refuse to step in Befoie a couple of years or so of al anon I felt obligated to step in I felt like my whole identity was about rescue. I had this whole persona around it if how #good and noble# I was
The ex A who drove me al anon absolutely counts on people atepoing in i am so absolutely grateful I no longer have to do that. I took.years to get There
I think it takes great courage to not step in. Knowing that you have to lket them fall because I am no longer responsible for everyone.but me!!
These days it is not that I ignore others I just put myself first rather than last. I don't think iy was even last I just didn't exist
-- Edited by Maresie on Friday 2nd of March 2018 08:08:22 PM
SerenityRUS said
Mar 5, 2018
Well we have had a couple of aha moments.
First one being guess who hit dad up? He's told him no before however as I stated I have done my part. I am a little speculative as it's the normal trying to go down on the amount. I will be curious to see my kids reaction to it all. Will he just let it go or will he push the issue with his dad.
I'm really trying to mind my own business. One thing that did happen is I was asked to come to an advisory meeting to which I agreed to, with the premise that I will give my opinion about what I think is the best option, regardless the responsibility for the choice is his. I'm ok with that. There have been a few things that I have been asked given my opinion and what do you know .. I wasn't born at 40 .. hmm .. go figure .. I actually know what I'm talking about sometimes .. lol. So that's a good thing, he's paying attention to that fact .. I'm here to guide not to drive.
The collateral damage .. while living under the family roof .. collateral damage is not ok. That means the there is a thought process that the good of one doesn't outweigh the good of all. So while living under the family roof those guidelines are in place .. free rent, no bills, I kind of think that's a fair boundary. No school shooter boyfriend around my family home .. this includes his family at this point. I am just not impressed specifically based upon the suicide attempt and the way his family chose to deal with it. while that is none of my business dumping it on my kid was NOT ok and they are fully aware of how I feel. That's all I need to say about that issue. That's collateral damage that means that stuff gets dropped at the door.
My kiddo has been reaching out more to me for mundane day to day things which is nice .. LOL .. the dread of seeing my phone ring or a text is not as anxiety ridden as it has been. I don't ask how is your day though .. I stick to how was class .. what did you have for breakfast .. LOL .. much safer questions and IF he chooses he can share without me asking although I am learning to say nope I'm good .. that's a therapist thing not mine.
So day to day is a good thing, .. Hugs S :)
Jen said
Mar 6, 2018
I love the quote you chose in your signature. So true.
I have a 17 year old and I am doing what I can to detach as well. I want things for him that he is just not interested in and I have to back off because even at 17 they have their own mind and it is not worth the fight. He knows the boundary I have set. If he is still studying in school, he may stay rent free. If he chooses not to continue his studies, he will have to find a job and pay his way, here or elsewhere. He is slowly coming to terms with that and I am just starting to see that he is thinking about it. It's hard, but healthy boundaries will serve us both well. I pray that all our kids find their way with HP's help and our support, not enabling. LOL
In recovery,
Maresie said
Mar 6, 2018
I think what I learned as a child was my responsibility was always to others Since my parents were so out of control I was wise to choose that. Now as an older adult my responsibility is to myself I have set a lot of limits around those who just want to #dump# on me. I am far less taken up in people pleasing which for me is major.
Having boundaries was such a struggle for me Now I have a lot of them i try to make a better life for my self rather than me and everyone else
This one has really been on my mind lately especially as I deal with my oldest. What is the difference between the issue of Responsibility vs Expectation for me.
In watching my oldest struggle pretty hard this past semester one thing I have really seen is that what are my expectations in terms of behavior, doing well and so on, and a lot of that I have put on him. That's my issue not his. This semester has not been without its hiccups and a couple have me upset because of the stupidity and it is stupidity on their part. It's probably youth and lack of experience, however don't involve me and get upset when I say .. um .. that's not a good idea .. lol. You asked .. I didn't volunteer.
There is a big responsibility that I don't think has fully hit the full ramifications of the current choices going on. This is going to happen sooner than later. I am not interested in dealing with collateral fall out and trust me when I say it's not minor. My kid has the attitude don't worry it's all going to workout .. ok what's your plan .. what plan? Yah .. at least have a plan or something to say I have thought this through on some level .. yes the outcome can come out different and that's ok .. no plan tells me this is an impulse deal.
It's really been a struggle to just let it all go and I continue to let it go throughout the day. I tried to explain it in the issue of .. if I quit my job and go to my BF and say guess what I quit and I'm not going to find another job with no discussion. The fact that this impacts NOT just me this is everyone around us in terms of kids .. do you think he might be angry specifically when he hears I just quit? Or .. I come to him and say .. I have been trying to get pregnant for 6 months and the test came back positive .. sorry I didn't mention that to you .. you don't want anymore kids? I think he's probably going to have an issue considering that was NOT on the planning scale of our life. Again these decisions are not just about me.
So I am accepting my kid is choosing a different path. I am accepting that these are his choices. I am letting go of the expectations that I have had for them in terms of I did not want my kid either of them to struggle with the financial aspect of things the way I have, you would think that me providing the fact I'm a horrible example of what not to do .. lol. Both of them would be like umm .. yah .. need to do something different in that regard.
What I choose is not to be saddled with the consequences of those choices. If my kid chooses to ignore the responsibilities there is going to be some real life consequences of sorry that's completely out of my hands. It will utterly terrify me however I just can't anymore. The latest bomb is the last bomb I'm willing to deal with at this point and time .. hit me up in 6 years .. not today. It has turned into sounds like you better call your dad.
This is something I am really trying to learn to do in all aspects of my life .. allow people to be where they are .. however .. also allow me to be where I am and NOT deal with the collateral damage. I'm really tired of holding the empty bag. I think the most amusing part of all of this is that he's actually shocked I'm upset .. LOL. Let's see .. last semester and that disaster and now this ..
Thanks for letting me share .. S :)
I seriously used the steps to help me 'see' my part, learn how to let them go, set boundaries, trust my HP and theirs and set boundaries that would free me from being collaterally involved. They are now 25 and 23 and things have improved drastically yet I am still at times reminded of who I am and who they are and how different we are.
Mine are finally hearing that they are responsible for their lives and I did my job. I will not bail them out - financially, jail or otherwise. They have exhausted that part of me/us and actually call/text now a days just to check in. For years, I heard only when they were in need/want. They are maturing, albeit slower than desired, but growing, recovering and changing just as I am.
They both have debt that I never wanted for them. Neither is too concerned even though their credit rating is not good. They've opted to listen to friends and others and are learning what works and what doesn't. What I focus on is what's working - they are learning, they are alive and they are finding their way.
We are good parents. They are going to do their own thing. Even when we see the potential train-wreck, if they don't, it doesn't matter. Just keep aligned with your program and know - like all other things - this too shall pass. (((Hugs))) sweetie -- sending you positive thoughts and prayers!
What an amazing piece of work for you to get through
I know when I an around alcohol8cs in general their narcissiusn is pretty difficult to deal with. I am usually stuck in there' trying to persuade them otherwise Now I.dont.
I heard this week my ex husband died. I have not seen him in decades He is not the man who drove me to al anon. I needed al anon then but I waant capable of it. Nevertheless I am struck by how single minded he was even in sobriety (He got so we after I left him) He had a bad back but continued to push it to a limit He actually had enough money to hire a fleet of workers. Something as simple as not taking care of yourself in the way he did led to his early death. His family have a history of longevity. He died suddenly. I am flooded with a lot of memories of his narcissism. Most of all of my inability to detach Needlesss to say he never got over that I left him.
For me it us spotting people like this that is so essential These days I refuse to step in Befoie a couple of years or so of al anon I felt obligated to step in I felt like my whole identity was about rescue. I had this whole persona around it if how #good and noble# I was
The ex A who drove me al anon absolutely counts on people atepoing in i am so absolutely grateful I no longer have to do that. I took.years to get There
I think it takes great courage to not step in. Knowing that you have to lket them fall because I am no longer responsible for everyone.but me!!
These days it is not that I ignore others I just put myself first rather than last. I don't think iy was even last I just didn't exist
-- Edited by Maresie on Friday 2nd of March 2018 08:08:22 PM
First one being guess who hit dad up? He's told him no before however as I stated I have done my part. I am a little speculative as it's the normal trying to go down on the amount. I will be curious to see my kids reaction to it all. Will he just let it go or will he push the issue with his dad.
I'm really trying to mind my own business. One thing that did happen is I was asked to come to an advisory meeting to which I agreed to, with the premise that I will give my opinion about what I think is the best option, regardless the responsibility for the choice is his. I'm ok with that. There have been a few things that I have been asked given my opinion and what do you know .. I wasn't born at 40 .. hmm .. go figure .. I actually know what I'm talking about sometimes .. lol. So that's a good thing, he's paying attention to that fact .. I'm here to guide not to drive.
The collateral damage .. while living under the family roof .. collateral damage is not ok. That means the there is a thought process that the good of one doesn't outweigh the good of all. So while living under the family roof those guidelines are in place .. free rent, no bills, I kind of think that's a fair boundary. No school shooter boyfriend around my family home .. this includes his family at this point. I am just not impressed specifically based upon the suicide attempt and the way his family chose to deal with it. while that is none of my business dumping it on my kid was NOT ok and they are fully aware of how I feel. That's all I need to say about that issue. That's collateral damage that means that stuff gets dropped at the door.
My kiddo has been reaching out more to me for mundane day to day things which is nice .. LOL .. the dread of seeing my phone ring or a text is not as anxiety ridden as it has been. I don't ask how is your day though .. I stick to how was class .. what did you have for breakfast .. LOL .. much safer questions and IF he chooses he can share without me asking although I am learning to say nope I'm good .. that's a therapist thing not mine.
So day to day is a good thing, .. Hugs S :)
I have a 17 year old and I am doing what I can to detach as well. I want things for him that he is just not interested in and I have to back off because even at 17 they have their own mind and it is not worth the fight. He knows the boundary I have set. If he is still studying in school, he may stay rent free. If he chooses not to continue his studies, he will have to find a job and pay his way, here or elsewhere. He is slowly coming to terms with that and I am just starting to see that he is thinking about it. It's hard, but healthy boundaries will serve us both well. I pray that all our kids find their way with HP's help and our support, not enabling. LOL
In recovery,
I think what I learned as a child was my responsibility was always to others Since my parents were so out of control I was wise to choose that. Now as an older adult my responsibility is to myself I have set a lot of limits around those who just want to #dump# on me. I am far less taken up in people pleasing which for me is major.
Having boundaries was such a struggle for me Now I have a lot of them i try to make a better life for my self rather than me and everyone else