Hi everyone,
Iām really struggling right now mentally trying to deal with my AH. His denial runs very, very deep which exhausts me to no end. Now to add to the matter, he is under a ton of stress in regards to life, finances, our marriage, his broken ties with his family. Heās been snapping out of nowhere, and is getting very belligerent and verbally abusive. For the last few days I snapped. I am at my wits end and canāt bare another day of this nonsense. Heās got big dreams of making millions of dollars- and I believe his intentions. Heās a very driven and possessed person when he sets his eyes on a goal. But for crying out loud- why do I have to piggyback along? His vision is for me to be his right-hand woman- and I would wholeheartedly but only if heās sober. He has no intentions of quitting anytime soon. Even with warnings from the dr of certain death if he continues on this path. So Iām trying to be supportive, but the abuse the last few days was so over the top that I actually snapped. I hit him. All I felt was this burning rage in me and in that instant I couldnāt contain myself. He was in my face and yelling about the stupidest things. Calling me names over and over and over. I am ashamed of myself. I was just so angry and couldnāt take another insult. I just couldnāt. I was weak and let him get to me. So now Iāve got him so angry with me. I just sat through an hour of him belittling me, telling me that so many people hate me, Iām a loser, without him Iāll sink, blah, blah, blah. And he claims I broke his nose, but I slapped him. I feel so guilty and really hate myself right now. The entire time I had headphones on so didnāt listen to all of it. I heard most though. He even told me that his entire family cut him off because of me. I donāt think thatās true- heās gotten himself into deep crap with all of them because of his drunken, aggressive tactics. But, the bug is in my head now. How do you not let what the alcoholic says get to you? I donāt understand. Even with me trying to tune him out, those words are in my head. How does one deal with this? How do you stay calm and not let it get to you? I currently havenāt been able to get to face to face meetings- so I turn to these boards for support. Iām feeling so lost and incredibly ashamed and sad and freaking angry!
hotrod said
Feb 26, 2018
((Ellabella)) you are not alone I can so understand how you feel and the terrible guilt that is surging within you. Please be gentle with yourself and try to understand that interacting with an alcoholic is extremely difficult and many of us have resorted to physical responses which only backfire and causes untold difficulities . I urge you to search out alanon face to face meetings and attend . Developing new tools to live by and a new supportive network who truly understand will provide you with the support and tools that will help.
Please do keep coming back
Iamhere said
Feb 26, 2018
Ellabella - I'm sorry your having such pain in your home. One of the best things for me about getting out of the house and finding/attending meetings was to get away from the insanity - which was loud and proud in my home with 3 active, agitated, angry male A(s). I used the Serenity prayer often/always - I can't change anyone else but I can change me, my location, my schedule, etc. Meetings for me were the necessary thing I had to add to my life/schedule to change the patterns that contributed to the chaos.
I left the house during chaos for meetings, walks, grocery, other errands, etc. I changed my whole schedule to be gone as much as possible when 'they' were home together. This was so I would NOT take it personally and/or engage in the chaos. In time, I was able to set boundaries and detach without having to leave the house but I did leave the area if I felt the need to do so.
We don't realize it, but we are just as insane as they are. Insanity breeds more insanity and in my home, the only way to break to cycle was for me to change. When I stopped reacting, the dance changed. When I was able to detach, explosions were way different/shorter. Over time, they stopped because there was no active audience (me).
Hoping another will change is not a realistic strategy - I tried that for a long while. Change only happened when I committed to changing me. He is going to do what he's going to do - it comes down to what are you going to do?
Elabella said
Feb 26, 2018
Thank you hotrod. I did an online meeting this evening which helped calm me down. I still feel such remorse for my actions. I canāt believe I let myself get to that point again. Itās a terrible disease- and Iām suffering with it as well. I feel insane and incredibly insecure. I will go to a face to face meeting on Wednesday. Iām so desperate for a change. I honestly feel if things donāt change I will surely die from the stress. Iām exhausted.
Elabella said
Feb 26, 2018
Iamhere thank you. I appreciate that you can understand me. I donāt know how you did it with 3! I know I feel insane in those moments. Even now. I need to step away when I feel myself getting sucked into the vortex. This will take great self-discipline. Iām leaning into the program more. Had my first online meeting tonight. Wednesday Iām going to the face to face meeting. Thank you so much for sharing your experience.
Aline said
Feb 27, 2018
Hugs, ((((Elabella)))), I'm sorry for your pain and regret. A lot of what you shared I have gone through also... The only way that has worked for me to improve my life has been the program way to work on myself. Focusing on doing the next right thing helped me a lot during hard times. Its very hard to make small steps as program suggests and trust that I'm going to get better when things are insane, but every little step helps. I now find myself a lot healthier and happier than a year ago when I constantly felt like losing my mind and was exhausted from stress. It works when we work it. You are worth working on you, keep coming back :)
AnnieFenk321 said
Feb 27, 2018
Hi Ellabella, I just wanted to say I identify with what you say, I too have done many things I regret and am sad about. It helps me to remember those words that are in somewhere in what they say at meetings about it being "too much for most people." I think we all react in similar and predictable ways. Unfortunately they aren't glamourous. Realising my behaviour is my responsibility, but that it isn't uniquely shameful, helps me.
Keep it up. Sending love.
Skorpi said
Feb 27, 2018
Hi Ellabella, I, too, found myself engaging with an active A. Yelling, fighting, I have done things I am not proud of. But, I am actually glad they happened now, because when I stood back and looked at my behavior, I realized that I did not recognize myself anymore, and that helped me to start to remember who I am, and how I want to live. Al-Anon helped me find my way back to myself.
As to how I didn't let those nasty words stay in my head? I realized one day that I have as much ability to decide things as my AW did. I decided that I would not be yelled at and that I would not stay for a session of name calling. And I said just that when she'd start up. "Name calling is not ok. Yelling is not ok. I am going for a walk." Then, I'd just leave. I don't need to be someone's verbal punching bag, and I decided that I wasn't going to take on that role anymore. Since she was really drunk most of the time when that would happen, she wouldn't remember it by the time I got back, anyway.
Keep it up. You are doing great, and I'm glad you found a meeting!
Iamhere said
Feb 27, 2018
(((Elabella))) - I hear you and I rarely look back as I have come to believe it was a power greater than I that led me into Al-Anon and towards better actions in healing/dealing with the affects of this disease. Make no mistake - I believe I am a strong woman, yet I was 100% totally defeated by this disease in those I love and my bottom brought me here with not much of 'anything' left inside of me.
I will share that in my home, when I began to do different, they did rebel. I was subject to more/worse behavior and words before it got better and I got better. I put massive miles on my sneakers and massive minutes on my mobile calling others in recovery to just slow my heart rate. Yet, each day that I was able to practice 'me' and not get sucked in, I felt a little more confident in self, program, recovery and the value of 'we'.
My best suggestion will also be to lean into the program. Even when you want to sit still, process and keep company with your own brain, use any/all tools as often as possible. Meetings, literature, phone calls, steps, MIP, etc. - for me, a daily effort to set aside my own ego, sadness, pride and more and just take suggestion action brought me through the chaos/insanity to the other side...
Sending you tons of positive energy and support! Great plan for online meetings (I did 2 a day here at various times when I was battling the disease) + a face to face. One Day at a Time - you got this!
Bo said
Feb 27, 2018
Elabella, welcome. If you can get to face to face meetings, inside of those rooms, you will be in the right place. I hear your struggles, and I too have been exactly where you are. I have been faced with that exact same situation countless times. When I finally hit my breaking point, I truly felt like I couldn't go on. Once, I packed a bag, and just left for the airport, and went to FL. I just had to get out of NJ, out of the entire area. I had to be far away from her, the situation, the area, everything. So I went.
I won't speak to every detail of your post, but I will say this -- you are so in it right now. You are deep in it. First, I would get to face to face meetings. As many as you can. Commit to it. It doesn't happen overnight. Nobody goes on a diet on Monday and wakes up on Tuesday and they lost 20 lbs. It takes time. One meeting is not going to do it. You have to keep going -- and keep coming back. Second, you are so focused on him right now. Start to focus on you and only you. You can't do anything about him -- about anything -- you can't do anything about his drinking. He will only stop when and if he wants to -- and there is nothing you can do about that. You can't fix, control, or change anything about him -- his drinking, behavior, thinking, attitude, denial, nothing. Stop exhausting yourself and driving yourself crazy by focusing on him and trying to. He has no intentions of quitting any time soon -- so stop trying. Third, you don't have to piggyback along. You don't. Get off the roller-coaster! Focus on you -- your thinking, your behavior, your actions, and your reactions.
This is what you will lean by going to meetings. You will learn about acceptance. This will help you. You will learn about detachment. This too will help you. You will learn about how to focus on you -- and what you need to do to get better, to get healthy. This is recover -- your recovery.
So now he's angry at you. OK, I get it. You can't do anything about that. Acceptance, detachment, and you making changes will bring you to a point where you will be able to handle that, and it won't impact you like it is now. My sponsor used to say -- if the alcoholic is angry at you, it means you are doing something right! Alcoholics very commonly blame, point the finger, and yell and scream that it is our fault. They have to blame us. If they don't, then who would they have to look at? Themselves. And, they don't want to do that. It is part of their denial. Go gentle on yourself. Let the bug go. Let it go. Don't beat yourself up. Don't buy into his sickness, lies, BS and everthing else. When he gets in your face, starts blaming, yelling and screaming -- try this -- say, "I am sorry you feel that way" and walk away. Just leave. You do not have to stay and receive this treatment. You do not have to accept unacceptable behavior! You can leave the room, leave the house, whatever. Simply walk away. Tell him you don't want to get into this with him right now. This is his release. He strives on it. He needs to blame you and yell at you. So get out of it.
When you go to your first face to face meeting -- look into finding a sponsor. This is where you can make exponential progress toward getting better.
All the best. Keep coming back.
Elabella said
Feb 27, 2018
Thank you all for your words of encouragement. I canāt tell you how much it means to me. Tonight - Iām back in the eye of the storm. Went to a soccer match with AH against my better judgement. He of course was tipsy en route already. Got to the stadium and bought 2 beers right away. Got to the seats. Was enjoying myself until I went to buy myself coffee. I left him- and he called me to ask to buy him beer. I said no- sorry. Then came halftime and he said go go with him to show me around. (Heās a season ticket holder). So I followed him- and he went on purpose into a rowdy crowd to start a fight with these group that wave giant flags during the match which lots of people hate because it blocks the view. I stood there like a fool seeing all these guys getting ready to fight him. Security got involved and pulled him out. My first instinct was to just walk away from him and the situation. Once I had a breather, I texted him and said I wanted to leave as I didnāt want to witness such stupidity. I told him he could stay- but I was going. And I left. Well this just opened the floodgates. He finally caught up to me and all the way home and now at home Iāve been subjected to nonstop anger from him. He says I abandoned him. That I didnāt have his back. How dare I leave him- we are supposed to be each others best friend. He would never leave me that way. I ruined his evening. And of course the usual rage and insults to my intelligence and everything else. Now Iām thinking I might have handled it wrong? Iām so unsure of every move Iām making. I honestly donāt know. Should I have stayed and ignored the behaviour? I was humiliated standing there like a fool while he went in knowing what was going to happen in that crowd. Iām so confused. I donāt want him to feel that I abandoned him- but how could I stay?? Iām riddled with guilt again. Asking for some ESH...
Bo said
Feb 27, 2018
After I made a decision, or some decisions, and then acted upon them, and handled a situation...after the fact...my sponsor would ask me..."How did that work out for you?"
He also asked me regularly, how's that working for you. His point, was for us to sit down and learn from it. To sit down and look at my part, my contribution...and explore options. Better options, healthier options. Once I started to learn -- having awareness and acceptance -- then I was able to start to change...change my thinking, my thought process, my behavior, my actions and reactions. That is when I started to get better, and started to get healthy.
The situations didn't change. My spouse didn't change. Neither did her behavior. What changed was me!!! I found myself in those situations far less. Less and less, and eventually not at all. I found myself not being as "deep" or as involved in those situations when they did occur. I found my responses were changing -- to sometimes no responses at all, to comments of detachment, which would allow me to withdraw and detach from the situation. Did I have to say no, I am not going, on various occasions? Absolutely. Did I get yelled at? Sure, but only briefly...because I refused to accept unacceptable behavior, and I detached. I left the room. I left the house if necessary. I didn't stay for the attacks, yelling, screaming, etc. I didn't give the other person an audience for their unacceptable behavior. When she hit me the ping pong ball...I put down the paddle. One person can't play ping pong by themselves...and they can't play if the other person puts down the paddle. No tug of wars...why? Because I dropped the rope.
I called my sponsor every day, several times a day, whenever I was faced with something. He gave me options, choices, more healthy ways of handling situations. It wasn't about the situation though. It wasn't about the text message or the voice mail message I received. It wasn't about the insults, name calling, and verbal attacks. It wasn't about anything the other person said or did. Guess what it was about? Every single time. It was about me.
hotrod said
Feb 27, 2018
Elabella, In my opinion you handled the situation with dignity and composure when you detached and walked away. You being his support, when he was surrounded by a crowd of men getting ready to fight him is laughable.
The disease is not logical or rational so I would not engage in the argument-- simply saying I am sorry you feel that way is the best you can do. Please take care of yourself
Elabella said
Feb 27, 2018
Thank you Bo and hotrod. Iām trying really hard to focus on whatās best for me in those moments of craziness, but the guilt is real. I feel selfish for doing what is helping me in those moments. What is with that? I know that logically, itās absurd to think Iām being selfish. But in reality Iām feeling guilty. Im guessing this is my part in the disease. Not believing that my feelings are valid. One day at a time! Thank you again for your input...
Bo said
Feb 27, 2018
Betty said it all. How ludicrous is it that you are blamed for abandoning him and not being there for him -- when he's behaving poorly, irresponsibly, dangerously, foolishly, and so many other negative things.
I am sorry you feel that way -- became a mantra of mine. I survived because of that statement.
It can be hard to focus on what's best for you when you are in the middle of the craziness. That's because not only are you in the middle of it, but you don't know how to get out of it, yet alone avoid being in it in the first place. That's why you need to go to face to face meetings...to learn!!! You feeling guilty is because you are in it. You are not thinking clearly or rationally. At least not at all times. Yes, it's part of your disease. It's your contribution to it. Go to meetings. You will learn all the things you need to.
Find a sponsor. Get to work! You'll be fine. You've come a long way already. Now keep going. One day at a time.
Elabella said
Feb 28, 2018
Bo thank you for your input. I like your attitude!! I am going to face-to-face meeting tomorrow. Last night I did an online meeting. And definitely getting myself a sponsor. Thank you again for all your wisdom- I appreciate it!
Jerry F said
Feb 28, 2018
Ela I love the closing statement in our meetings which says "If you keep and open mind...you will find help" Good for you asking for help and keeping and open mind cause that is what's happening. I went thru the argument and blaming "one upping" seasons with my alcoholic/addict also and learned neither of us was winning anything...no space and no grace and I had to change how I did my discussions. I learned to drop the "buts" in my defensive statement and started practicing "ands"...which helped me so use some respect during the war with her.
I listened to her complaints and stopped trying to one up her. "I know what you're saying but...." (defend defend defend) on and on and on. I changed my input to "I hear what you are saying or trying to say and....this is how I see it or am experiencing it". I also use to use "time outs" We only get a certain period of time to hack the issue or issues and then I quit hacking. I did that one well cause I had a great off switch when I used it.
It isn't about winning its about how you play the game. Keep coming back No one has the authority to treat you less than. ((((hugs))))
Skorpi said
Feb 28, 2018
((((Elabella))))
Your latest post brought back so many memories for me!
I think it is ok to refuse to accept the unacceptable, and to protect yourself in mind, body, and spirit. To me, it sounds like that is what you did by walking away and deciding to go home. You weren't telling anyone else what to do, you were deciding what you were going to do and what was good for you in the moment. That sounds like a boundary to me.
One question I asked myself and that helped me SO much with the guilt of setting boundaries was: Does my AW have MY back right now? Is my AW abandoning me right now? Invariably, my answers were: no and yes, and that made it easier for me to let go of the guilt when those statements were tossed at me. Was AW physically there? Sure. Stumbling about and causing problems. Does that count as "having my back" and "being there for me"? For me, I said that it did not.
Keep coming back. You are worth it
Iamhere said
Feb 28, 2018
(((Ellabella))) - your post reminded me how challenging it was in my family when I began self-care. I too was ridiculed and verbally assaulted for putting myself and my own sanity in front of the chaos/drama this disease brings. I too questioned myself over and over again on if the action I was taking was the right action....it was gut-wrenching at times yet what I found is that this program, what was shared and suggested in meetings and what my sponsor suggested was healthy behaviors/actions. It felt so uncomfortable because my habits and typical reactions were not really very sane or healthy.
Change is difficult and we just seek progress always. We are not perfect and yet HP loves us exactly as we are. We are not designed to be perfect - we are designed to be human, flaws and all. Al-Anon really did give me tools to handle situations that used to confuse or baffle me and in time, when I was able to 'take the high road, act like an adult and choose self-care in a healthy manner' they were retrained to better understand what I would and/or would not tolerate. Nobody needs to be subjected to unacceptable behavior, for any reason at any time - does not matter who is doing 'it'.
I practiced keeping my mouth shut as ANY response from me was like putting gas on a fire. I practiced just detaching and not engaging when mine were altered as it was just so counterproductive. I'm so glad that you are heading out to a meeting today - as Jerry says, Keep an open mind and look for what's similar instead of what's different. Sending you tons of (((Hugs))) and positive thoughts. Please let us know how it goes!
Elabella said
Feb 28, 2018
Thank you all so much for sharing your experiences. So I did make it to the face to face meeting today. I had to tell my AH what I was doing as he is in between contracts right now and is home all the time. Before the meeting he was encouraging and said whatever I need to feel better I should do. Great! The meeting was good- todayās topic being control. I was able to realize that a lot of my issues stem from my need for things to be the way I expect them to be. And obviously this is not the case in life. Well fast forward a few hours and again Iām in the eye of the storm. Heās fuming that I went to this meeting. He does not like it one bit. When he started to get verbally abusive when we were in the car, I kept pulling over and stopping anytime he called me a name or swore at me. This threw him off completely. After a minute I would tell him his language is unacceptable and every time he does use it on me- I will stop the car. Well- long story short- we were late for a meeting and of course Iām now being blamed for screwing things up. All my fault. His thought process is so mixed up now- I cannot deal with him in any manner. Even detaching Iām still so anxious and on edge. He is relentless. By the time we got home i got an earful and then some. After getting in the house he got more agitated and so I left. So Iām sitting in my car right now a few blocks away. He hasnāt stopped texting or calling me. Iām truly at my wits end. This is unfair that I have to keep walking away to get peace. Heās such a bitter, angry belligerent human being when heās intoxicated. Tomorrow we have his dr appointment which I know he is stressed out about because itās not going to be good news. Iām praying so much lately just to get through this wicked storm. Itās been a very,very rough ride but I need to stay strong and healthy for my daughters sake. She cannot lose both parents and become an orphan. Asking you all for your prayers and positive thoughts.....
Jerry F said
Feb 28, 2018
Wow Ela...awesome courage!! Keep your alert system on and working because this kind of abuse he is using on you can get him jailed. Don't have to point the finger and keep warning him...he is scared and angry because he has lost some control over what use to be easier for him. Love him and keep loving yourself. Keep pulling over the car even if you are not in it...Get the metaphor on that...see the picture of it.
He can love and knows how to but is too afraid to try something different. He is knocking his head against sobriety. I remember those days myself...had to go thru them to get into peace of mind and serenity.
Yay Ela and your HP!!! (((((hugs)))))
Freetime said
Feb 28, 2018
Ela, I totally understand how unfair it is to have to leave the house to get peace. Just a thought: "It is always darkest before the dawn." There is hope and sunshine for you.
Elabella said
Feb 28, 2018
Haha Jerry- I actually laughed out loud when I read your comment on the car metaphor! Thank you- I needed a little lighthearted moment like that!
Freetime thank you for the words of encouragement!
I just have to keep on keeping on- it will get better. I just have to remind myself to keep loving him even when heās anything but loveable. But I have to keep pulling my car over when needed š
Finding grace said
Mar 1, 2018
(((Ella))) I have been following your story, and I think you are really doing great setting boundaries, not accepting unacceptable behavior, and looking out for you! I am new here, and you are my hero! Go you! Glad you found us, and a face to face meeting! My AH work situation has changed fairly recently, and he is here way more. I am the type that needs my me time, so last night, I had a car available, and went out for a few hours, just got coffee, did some window shopping, then spent some time just sitting in my car enjoying my me time. Glad you got out too, I know it's sad that we may have to leave to get some peace...but it's one way to do it!
Keep doing for you, and reaching out for support! You are doing great!
Elabella said
Mar 1, 2018
Finding grace- Iām completely humbled by your post. Thank you. The funny thing is that Iām so out of my comfort zone with setting boundaries relentlessly. I really feel like Iām walking a tightrope without a safety net. Doing it these last few days really opened my eyes to how much unacceptable behaviour I let go before without addressing. Most of the time to avoid an argument because that was the only way I thought was possible to deal with it. Other times flipping out. Neither of which worked. Now with my attempts at boundaries- he is taken a back. He thinks Iāve lost my mind -LOL! However- he actually apologized and was watching his words. Without my having lost control. Not to say Iām acing this thing. Tonight I lost it when he became very demeaning and rude at the dinner table towards me- in front of our daughter. But I forgive myself and know that tomorrow is another day. Most importantly my daughter forgave me- she didnāt like what he did and found it rude. I had to explain later when I was alone with her that we need to remind ourselves that he is sick and these outbursts are not the real him. So frustrating and sad. It breaks my heart that she needs to be seeing and hearing this stuff at 14 years of age. Well enough of my pity party. Onwards and upwards. Iām going to make a nice cup of tea, kick up my heels and watch some tv. Heās sleeping already at 9:00pm- which is great for me because I stay up late and that means I have PEACE!!!! Wishing you all a wonderful evening.......
Jerry F said
Mar 1, 2018
You are growing Ela and I am grinning like I do each and every time a new miracle comes into view...Hey a Miracle in Progress....Yay!! (((hugs)))
Maresie said
Mar 1, 2018
Generally dysfunctional people balk at any kind of boundary
Recovering from being with an alcoholic is advanced stuff
First there is detachmen talk.about going to lift a 300 lb weight before you have even started a regimen. Detachment takes a lot of patience and practice. Those are hard to come by when
You are pushed to exhaustion Be assured detachment is worth the long haul. Everu day it gets better Then one day you see that you have gained a great deal I railed and railed about how hard detachment was I am so grateful I stuck it out
Some of us in these kind of relationships almost #merge#with our partners As the great meditation teacher Stephem Levine would say #you feel his hurt whenever it happens# . For me that #merging# used to be the ideal. The more time I could so spend with my partner the better Then I didn't feel hollow lonely and lost What's more I has some grandiose idea that I could control their addiction
Boundaries encompass a lot of things. One reason I used to be seen as a good employee is I never said no However never saying No generally got me caught inn a quagmire of resentment I felt like I was under appreciated but really the numver one oerson who didnt value me waa actually myself . Saying no is very healthy but not generally appreciated
Boundaries are a lot of work and believe me the people you set boundaries with are not going to like it They are going to say all kinds of things about how unreasonable those boundaries are . Most of all they are going to push back hard .
So there you have it two very difficult propositions and we all have these unreal expectations of being in advanced recovery by day two.
Then there is the whole issue of reaching out for support i still have a hard time admitting to the kind of situations I found myself in. Nevertheless I have to say I pretty much found the acceptance I always craved in al anon I had to get past the shame and self hate to get there. And if course the self judgement
So be patient 'be kind to yourself . Certain situations are huge triggers for me I have to tread carefully I didn't tread carefully before I pushed through situations I could have avoided . I was pretty hard on myself when I didn't need to be
Being kind to ourselves is really hard
I am thinking of my ex husband today who got into recovery after we divorced He never attempted to make amends to me on any level i have heard some about his life today since we split. He drove himself relentlessly with self hate. He covered it pretty well. Anyone who is lashing out at you is a) short on impetuous restraint b) in a constant rage (I believe it was rage that contributed to my ex husband death (I learned he died last month today) he was always enraged and c) desperate for help . Of course who wants to help someone who is lashing out I have done my fair share if lashing out and lived a life full of resentment blame and
recrimi nation too I had some kind of weird idea my ex husband was living the great life because certainly things improved for him I had this kind of scale all the time of my life versus others Then you learn the truth and what looked go of was not so good after all. So much for those fantasized. My fantasized generally involve me #being less than#
The number one thing I.akways have to come back to time and again is to stop beating myself to a pulp. The other is to stop imagining I am a complete failure in so many aspects of everything
If you are in al.anon that is a big asset towards where ever you go in this relationship. You are around lots of people with warmth caring but most of all deep deep caring for others.
Al anon is a real good place to start.
Finding grace said
Mar 1, 2018
You are doing great, don't beat yourself up over the slip up. It happens, but you realize the mistake. Yay for you that he went to bed and you can enjoy some peace. I love that too, unfortunately it doesn't happen often here anymore, but I can't change him.
Do you think your daughter would be interested in Al ateen? It is a way that she could also learn and have support. My kids are not interested, but I wish they were.
I would like to put strong boundaries up with my AH, but in my case he resorts to completely wigging out, mass chaos, appalling behavior etc. obviously I can't change him, but I won't have that around my kids. Years ago I noticed both my AH and his siblings go to this crazy chaos moment, so I assume they were shown this growing up. My AH knows I won't have this around them, and uses it. I am struggling to figure this out...so change is a more subtle process here. My choice obviously...I own it. Please enjoy your night...look forward to your updates!
Elabella said
Mar 1, 2018
Thank you Jerry- I'm trying! Maresie thank you for your input.
Finding grace- I have asked my daughter if she would be interested in Alateen and I got a flat out NO. I might just pickup some literature for her and she can read it if she wants. My AH is giving me all the reactions you said your husband would. This is why it's been tough. He honestly thinks I've lost my mind and he is NOT happy with these changes. Believe me, he is very loud, abusive and crazy when he gets angry. I was in the same boat as you- just avoiding getting into it because you don't want the kids to see that crappy behaviour. Well, as is the case with this disease, he has no boundaries when it comes to his outbursts and inevitably even when I stayed quiet he still proceeded to start pulling these stunts in front of our daughter. Not good. I came to AlAnon because I was defeated. I felt desperate, out of control, angry. I still do, but I have noticed tiny subtle changes when I started to set these boundaries. Like he actually apologized for the abusive behaviour and was actually trying to control himself without me demanding the apology, giving the silent treatment ( my favourite manipulative tactic), or flipping out. it was a first for me. Even if it was for only a short while, I saw the change and it was good. He is fighting back though. He made me laugh because he said today," next time you go to one of your stupid meetings I'm going to go there with you and I'm going to tell all of them where they can go!" . Ugh. Hang in there. I totally relate to everything you're going through.....
Please do keep coming back
I left the house during chaos for meetings, walks, grocery, other errands, etc. I changed my whole schedule to be gone as much as possible when 'they' were home together. This was so I would NOT take it personally and/or engage in the chaos. In time, I was able to set boundaries and detach without having to leave the house but I did leave the area if I felt the need to do so.
We don't realize it, but we are just as insane as they are. Insanity breeds more insanity and in my home, the only way to break to cycle was for me to change. When I stopped reacting, the dance changed. When I was able to detach, explosions were way different/shorter. Over time, they stopped because there was no active audience (me).
Hoping another will change is not a realistic strategy - I tried that for a long while. Change only happened when I committed to changing me. He is going to do what he's going to do - it comes down to what are you going to do?
Keep it up. Sending love.
As to how I didn't let those nasty words stay in my head? I realized one day that I have as much ability to decide things as my AW did. I decided that I would not be yelled at and that I would not stay for a session of name calling. And I said just that when she'd start up. "Name calling is not ok. Yelling is not ok. I am going for a walk." Then, I'd just leave. I don't need to be someone's verbal punching bag, and I decided that I wasn't going to take on that role anymore. Since she was really drunk most of the time when that would happen, she wouldn't remember it by the time I got back, anyway.
Keep it up. You are doing great, and I'm glad you found a meeting!
I will share that in my home, when I began to do different, they did rebel. I was subject to more/worse behavior and words before it got better and I got better. I put massive miles on my sneakers and massive minutes on my mobile calling others in recovery to just slow my heart rate. Yet, each day that I was able to practice 'me' and not get sucked in, I felt a little more confident in self, program, recovery and the value of 'we'.
My best suggestion will also be to lean into the program. Even when you want to sit still, process and keep company with your own brain, use any/all tools as often as possible. Meetings, literature, phone calls, steps, MIP, etc. - for me, a daily effort to set aside my own ego, sadness, pride and more and just take suggestion action brought me through the chaos/insanity to the other side...
Sending you tons of positive energy and support! Great plan for online meetings (I did 2 a day here at various times when I was battling the disease) + a face to face. One Day at a Time - you got this!
Elabella, welcome. If you can get to face to face meetings, inside of those rooms, you will be in the right place. I hear your struggles, and I too have been exactly where you are. I have been faced with that exact same situation countless times. When I finally hit my breaking point, I truly felt like I couldn't go on. Once, I packed a bag, and just left for the airport, and went to FL. I just had to get out of NJ, out of the entire area. I had to be far away from her, the situation, the area, everything. So I went.
I won't speak to every detail of your post, but I will say this -- you are so in it right now. You are deep in it. First, I would get to face to face meetings. As many as you can. Commit to it. It doesn't happen overnight. Nobody goes on a diet on Monday and wakes up on Tuesday and they lost 20 lbs. It takes time. One meeting is not going to do it. You have to keep going -- and keep coming back. Second, you are so focused on him right now. Start to focus on you and only you. You can't do anything about him -- about anything -- you can't do anything about his drinking. He will only stop when and if he wants to -- and there is nothing you can do about that. You can't fix, control, or change anything about him -- his drinking, behavior, thinking, attitude, denial, nothing. Stop exhausting yourself and driving yourself crazy by focusing on him and trying to. He has no intentions of quitting any time soon -- so stop trying. Third, you don't have to piggyback along. You don't. Get off the roller-coaster! Focus on you -- your thinking, your behavior, your actions, and your reactions.
This is what you will lean by going to meetings. You will learn about acceptance. This will help you. You will learn about detachment. This too will help you. You will learn about how to focus on you -- and what you need to do to get better, to get healthy. This is recover -- your recovery.
So now he's angry at you. OK, I get it. You can't do anything about that. Acceptance, detachment, and you making changes will bring you to a point where you will be able to handle that, and it won't impact you like it is now. My sponsor used to say -- if the alcoholic is angry at you, it means you are doing something right! Alcoholics very commonly blame, point the finger, and yell and scream that it is our fault. They have to blame us. If they don't, then who would they have to look at? Themselves. And, they don't want to do that. It is part of their denial. Go gentle on yourself. Let the bug go. Let it go. Don't beat yourself up. Don't buy into his sickness, lies, BS and everthing else. When he gets in your face, starts blaming, yelling and screaming -- try this -- say, "I am sorry you feel that way" and walk away. Just leave. You do not have to stay and receive this treatment. You do not have to accept unacceptable behavior! You can leave the room, leave the house, whatever. Simply walk away. Tell him you don't want to get into this with him right now. This is his release. He strives on it. He needs to blame you and yell at you. So get out of it.
When you go to your first face to face meeting -- look into finding a sponsor. This is where you can make exponential progress toward getting better.
All the best. Keep coming back.
He also asked me regularly, how's that working for you. His point, was for us to sit down and learn from it. To sit down and look at my part, my contribution...and explore options. Better options, healthier options. Once I started to learn -- having awareness and acceptance -- then I was able to start to change...change my thinking, my thought process, my behavior, my actions and reactions. That is when I started to get better, and started to get healthy.
The situations didn't change. My spouse didn't change. Neither did her behavior. What changed was me!!! I found myself in those situations far less. Less and less, and eventually not at all. I found myself not being as "deep" or as involved in those situations when they did occur. I found my responses were changing -- to sometimes no responses at all, to comments of detachment, which would allow me to withdraw and detach from the situation. Did I have to say no, I am not going, on various occasions? Absolutely. Did I get yelled at? Sure, but only briefly...because I refused to accept unacceptable behavior, and I detached. I left the room. I left the house if necessary. I didn't stay for the attacks, yelling, screaming, etc. I didn't give the other person an audience for their unacceptable behavior. When she hit me the ping pong ball...I put down the paddle. One person can't play ping pong by themselves...and they can't play if the other person puts down the paddle. No tug of wars...why? Because I dropped the rope.
I called my sponsor every day, several times a day, whenever I was faced with something. He gave me options, choices, more healthy ways of handling situations. It wasn't about the situation though. It wasn't about the text message or the voice mail message I received. It wasn't about the insults, name calling, and verbal attacks. It wasn't about anything the other person said or did. Guess what it was about? Every single time. It was about me.
The disease is not logical or rational so I would not engage in the argument-- simply saying I am sorry you feel that way is the best you can do. Please take care of yourself
I am sorry you feel that way -- became a mantra of mine. I survived because of that statement.
It can be hard to focus on what's best for you when you are in the middle of the craziness. That's because not only are you in the middle of it, but you don't know how to get out of it, yet alone avoid being in it in the first place. That's why you need to go to face to face meetings...to learn!!! You feeling guilty is because you are in it. You are not thinking clearly or rationally. At least not at all times. Yes, it's part of your disease. It's your contribution to it. Go to meetings. You will learn all the things you need to.
Find a sponsor. Get to work! You'll be fine. You've come a long way already. Now keep going. One day at a time.
Ela I love the closing statement in our meetings which says "If you keep and open mind...you will find help" Good for you asking for help and keeping and open mind cause that is what's happening. I went thru the argument and blaming "one upping" seasons with my alcoholic/addict also and learned neither of us was winning anything...no space and no grace and I had to change how I did my discussions. I learned to drop the "buts" in my defensive statement and started practicing "ands"...which helped me so use some respect during the war with her.
I listened to her complaints and stopped trying to one up her. "I know what you're saying but...." (defend defend defend) on and on and on. I changed my input to "I hear what you are saying or trying to say and....this is how I see it or am experiencing it". I also use to use "time outs" We only get a certain period of time to hack the issue or issues and then I quit hacking. I did that one well cause I had a great off switch when I used it.
It isn't about winning its about how you play the game. Keep coming back No one has the authority to treat you less than. ((((hugs))))
Your latest post brought back so many memories for me!
I think it is ok to refuse to accept the unacceptable, and to protect yourself in mind, body, and spirit. To me, it sounds like that is what you did by walking away and deciding to go home. You weren't telling anyone else what to do, you were deciding what you were going to do and what was good for you in the moment. That sounds like a boundary to me.
One question I asked myself and that helped me SO much with the guilt of setting boundaries was: Does my AW have MY back right now? Is my AW abandoning me right now? Invariably, my answers were: no and yes, and that made it easier for me to let go of the guilt when those statements were tossed at me. Was AW physically there? Sure. Stumbling about and causing problems. Does that count as "having my back" and "being there for me"? For me, I said that it did not.
Keep coming back. You are worth it
Change is difficult and we just seek progress always. We are not perfect and yet HP loves us exactly as we are. We are not designed to be perfect - we are designed to be human, flaws and all. Al-Anon really did give me tools to handle situations that used to confuse or baffle me and in time, when I was able to 'take the high road, act like an adult and choose self-care in a healthy manner' they were retrained to better understand what I would and/or would not tolerate. Nobody needs to be subjected to unacceptable behavior, for any reason at any time - does not matter who is doing 'it'.
I practiced keeping my mouth shut as ANY response from me was like putting gas on a fire. I practiced just detaching and not engaging when mine were altered as it was just so counterproductive. I'm so glad that you are heading out to a meeting today - as Jerry says, Keep an open mind and look for what's similar instead of what's different. Sending you tons of (((Hugs))) and positive thoughts. Please let us know how it goes!
Wow Ela...awesome courage!! Keep your alert system on and working because this kind of abuse he is using on you can get him jailed. Don't have to point the finger and keep warning him...he is scared and angry because he has lost some control over what use to be easier for him. Love him and keep loving yourself. Keep pulling over the car even if you are not in it...Get the metaphor on that...see the picture of it.
He can love and knows how to but is too afraid to try something different. He is knocking his head against sobriety. I remember those days myself...had to go thru them to get into peace of mind and serenity.
Yay Ela and your HP!!! (((((hugs)))))
Keep doing for you, and reaching out for support! You are doing great!
You are growing Ela and I am grinning like I do each and every time a new miracle comes into view...Hey a Miracle in Progress....Yay!! (((hugs)))
Generally dysfunctional people balk at any kind of boundary
Recovering from being with an alcoholic is advanced stuff
First there is detachmen talk.about going to lift a 300 lb weight before you have even started a regimen. Detachment takes a lot of patience and practice. Those are hard to come by when
You are pushed to exhaustion Be assured detachment is worth the long haul. Everu day it gets better Then one day you see that you have gained a great deal I railed and railed about how hard detachment was I am so grateful I stuck it out
Some of us in these kind of relationships almost #merge#with our partners As the great meditation teacher Stephem Levine would say #you feel his hurt whenever it happens# . For me that #merging# used to be the ideal. The more time I could so spend with my partner the better Then I didn't feel hollow lonely and lost What's more I has some grandiose idea that I could control their addiction
Boundaries encompass a lot of things. One reason I used to be seen as a good employee is I never said no However never saying No generally got me caught inn a quagmire of resentment I felt like I was under appreciated but really the numver one oerson who didnt value me waa actually myself . Saying no is very healthy but not generally appreciated
Boundaries are a lot of work and believe me the people you set boundaries with are not going to like it They are going to say all kinds of things about how unreasonable those boundaries are . Most of all they are going to push back hard .
So there you have it two very difficult propositions and we all have these unreal expectations of being in advanced recovery by day two.
Then there is the whole issue of reaching out for support i still have a hard time admitting to the kind of situations I found myself in. Nevertheless I have to say I pretty much found the acceptance I always craved in al anon I had to get past the shame and self hate to get there. And if course the self judgement
So be patient 'be kind to yourself . Certain situations are huge triggers for me I have to tread carefully I didn't tread carefully before I pushed through situations I could have avoided . I was pretty hard on myself when I didn't need to be
Being kind to ourselves is really hard
I am thinking of my ex husband today who got into recovery after we divorced He never attempted to make amends to me on any level i have heard some about his life today since we split. He drove himself relentlessly with self hate. He covered it pretty well. Anyone who is lashing out at you is a) short on impetuous restraint b) in a constant rage (I believe it was rage that contributed to my ex husband death (I learned he died last month today) he was always enraged and c) desperate for help . Of course who wants to help someone who is lashing out I have done my fair share if lashing out and lived a life full of resentment blame and
recrimi nation too I had some kind of weird idea my ex husband was living the great life because certainly things improved for him I had this kind of scale all the time of my life versus others Then you learn the truth and what looked go of was not so good after all. So much for those fantasized. My fantasized generally involve me #being less than#
The number one thing I.akways have to come back to time and again is to stop beating myself to a pulp. The other is to stop imagining I am a complete failure in so many aspects of everything
If you are in al.anon that is a big asset towards where ever you go in this relationship. You are around lots of people with warmth caring but most of all deep deep caring for others.
Al anon is a real good place to start.
Do you think your daughter would be interested in Al ateen? It is a way that she could also learn and have support. My kids are not interested, but I wish they were.
I would like to put strong boundaries up with my AH, but in my case he resorts to completely wigging out, mass chaos, appalling behavior etc. obviously I can't change him, but I won't have that around my kids. Years ago I noticed both my AH and his siblings go to this crazy chaos moment, so I assume they were shown this growing up. My AH knows I won't have this around them, and uses it. I am struggling to figure this out...so change is a more subtle process here. My choice obviously...I own it. Please enjoy your night...look forward to your updates!
Finding grace- I have asked my daughter if she would be interested in Alateen and I got a flat out NO. I might just pickup some literature for her and she can read it if she wants. My AH is giving me all the reactions you said your husband would. This is why it's been tough. He honestly thinks I've lost my mind and he is NOT happy with these changes. Believe me, he is very loud, abusive and crazy when he gets angry. I was in the same boat as you- just avoiding getting into it because you don't want the kids to see that crappy behaviour. Well, as is the case with this disease, he has no boundaries when it comes to his outbursts and inevitably even when I stayed quiet he still proceeded to start pulling these stunts in front of our daughter. Not good. I came to AlAnon because I was defeated. I felt desperate, out of control, angry. I still do, but I have noticed tiny subtle changes when I started to set these boundaries. Like he actually apologized for the abusive behaviour and was actually trying to control himself without me demanding the apology, giving the silent treatment ( my favourite manipulative tactic), or flipping out. it was a first for me. Even if it was for only a short while, I saw the change and it was good. He is fighting back though. He made me laugh because he said today," next time you go to one of your stupid meetings I'm going to go there with you and I'm going to tell all of them where they can go!" . Ugh. Hang in there. I totally relate to everything you're going through.....