So my story, my fiance slipped 4 weeks ago after being sober for 400+ days. We have known each other since we were 11, but had not been in touch for 20 years until we reconnected in 2016. When we first reconnected she told me that she was an alcoholic and was in recovery, at that time only for 6 months, but she was going to AA, counseling, meditating regularly. In July 2017, we became engaged and I bought a house for us in October, 2017. Flash forward to Jan, 2018. I came back from a business trip during which my grandmother who lived in another state died. We were scheduled to attend a engagement party that was being held for us, but I told my fiance that I had to attend the funeral instead. She was very upset that I would miss the party. We had an argument in which we agreed to disagree. I decided to leave for the night as I have an apartment an hour to the north that I use for work. She sent me a text that I was making things worse by leaving so I came back home. She was a completely different person...very happy....I knew something was wrong....I asked her why she was so happy all of a sudden and if she had been drinking. She said no, so as I walked away she said she was having a glass of wine..it was hidden behind her computer...I snatched it and poured it out. I looked for the bottle but couldn't find it. I left the room, she locked the door, and I heard the cork come out of the bottle. I got back in the room, poured the now half bottle of wine out. I called her best friend, her sponsor, her dad all to tell her to go to bed, her dad came to the house, we both said she needed to go to bed, but she said she wanted to "party." She scared her dad way, I hid all the medication, weapons, her keys and purse in my office and slept on my office floor so she wouldn't hurt herself. She proceeded to scream and bang around the home until 3am at which point she passed out. I knew it was just the alcohol doing all this and not her The next morning, I came in her office to check on her, she stank of cigarettes and Listerine. I brought her water and crackers to help with the hangover. She told me she drank 2 bottles of wine (one was a white from 2004, yuck), a bottle of Listerine (28% alcohol in case you didn't know, I didn't), and a bottle of NyQuil, in addition to several pills on Benadryl. I knew she would be passed out for most of the day so I went about my routines away from the house. I came back that evening and she was mad that I had been gone for so long, was really upset with my actions the previous night, and just kept saying hurtful things...I thought she was drinking again, and I lost it! I said things to her that I regretted later about her destroying everything we worked for, that if she was drinking she couldn't stay in the house, etc. I was hurt. To top it all off, she recorded me on her phone saying the things I said. Ugh! We were both supposed to fly to my grandmothers funeral the next morning. I struggled if she should come or not as she was SO hateful. She told me if she didn't come with me, she wouldn't be at the house when I came back....so reluctantly I said she should come.....The whole trip, she wouldn't talk to me, acknowledge me, anything...except exchange cell phone notes on the flight on how hurt she was by my actions and she didn't know who I was. When I saw my folks at the hotel after we landed, she said she needed a nap. My folks and I went to lunch and I started crying and told them she had relapsed. My folks reminded me that we were getting married in 90 days....I had been in a bad relationship for 10 years prior to meeting my fiance....I knew we at least had to delay the wedding so I had better tools to handle a relapse. I told my fiance that evening, and understandably she freaked out. I drove her back to the airport, paid for her return ticket, and made sure she got to security. I told her I wanted to work things out, but she said "you either want to get married or you don't." The next morning I found out my other grandmother had died...when it rains it pours.. I came back from the first funeral two days later. I had been in touch with her family, sponsor, and best friend to tell them I still loved her and wanted to work things out. She was mad about that. She was still in our house, so I grabbed a couple of things and left to my apartment. She said we were done. I told her she could stay in the house as long as she needed as long as she tried to work things out. She refused and found an apartment somewhere and moved out two days later. She left practically everything that was hers in the house...All she took was a mattress, her clothes, a few dishes, and a few pieces of furniture. I told her to sell what ever she wanted to in order to help her move, but she said she didn't have time for any of that. She texted me that she's lost all this money on the wedding, her move, etc. and that I had dragged her and her family "through Hell." I decided to not contact her for awhile, but did tell her I loved her. She now texts between angry texts about how we never would have worked out and texts to check in to see how I am doing. I have not replied to these. On the plus side, I am meditating, attending Al-Anon, began a journal to write how I'm feeling, and am getting counseling. Her 2 year anniversary of when she started recovery in on March 5. I thought about sending her a card, thoughts? If you made it to this part, I appreciate the time you've taken to read all of this. Thank you!
AnnieFenk321 said
Feb 24, 2018
Hi there,
Firstly hugs, I am so sorry to hear that your life a has been affected in such a painful way by alcoholism. This all sounds very traumatic, with this relationship difficulty coming on top ofthe grief of losing both your grandmothers. I hope you are taking care of you.
This disease is really horrible and it is tragic watching those we love harm themselves - in fact the word "tragic" seems small in comparison to how hard it really is. However, it's really great news that you are attending al anon meetings. I have found so much help there. My husband also went through a relapse after many years in recovery (starting long before I met him).
For me Al Anon literature, this message board and meetings - especially face to face meetings - have saved my sanity and changed my life. When I first came here, which wasn't that long ago, people said to me "there's hope and help in Al Anon." I have found this to be 100% true and I hope that you find it too.
All the very best.
Iamhere said
Feb 24, 2018
Welcome to MIP CT - so glad you found us and glad that you shared. It's great to hear that you are attending Al-Anon and practicing the program and learning/using the tools. As far as what you should/should not do, who knows - we each have to do what makes sense based on our own situation and recovery. What I do know is that Alcoholism is a disease that is larger than consumption - it affects one mentally, spiritually, physically and certainly brings about a whole new level of insane thoughts. This of course applies to both the A and those who love them or have been affected - friends and family.
I am one who uses any/every tool possible to bring my thinking back to me/my needs when I am concerned, troubled, obsessed about the actions/words of another. I just know for me and my situation that anytime I think I 'should' - a long pause and prayer before action helps me determine better what is rational.
I am so sorry for how you, she and all have been affected. It took me 'looking at life from outside the circle of chaos' to see how deeply the disease affects others. I now do all that I can to just stay focused on my recovery, stay on my side of the street and stay in the present moment trusting that more will always be revealed. Please keep coming back and know that you aren't alone! You don't have to do anything today but breathe and take good care of you!
SerenityRUS said
Feb 24, 2018
Hugs,
It sounds like this is all still incredibly raw at the moment. I am so sorry that it's painful. It sounds like you are taking all of the right steps you are taking care of you.
I think I'm a little confused by the whole timeline of events and you keep saying her sobriety date which at this point unless she's not drinking .. she doesn't have one and no one in AA that I know is going to say .. oh you still have your sobriety date if you relapse.
Right now she doesn't sound like she's in a good place and that's for her to workout .. the great thing about Alanon is you get to work it out and come to terms with what your own stuff.
For me sometimes when in doubt don't applies very much .. nothing has to be done today and if you decide to send a card or not .. which this is my honest perspective is really not appropriate at the moment and checking motives is a big one .. what do you want out of it .. what's the emotional payoff.
Alcoholism is a truly cunning, baffling and powerful disease .. addiction is a whole new level of denial .. as the other person in the relationship I want to believe what I am told and not believe what I am being shown .. in my experience my XAH believed my consistent actions. When I stayed out of the mess .. I got a clearer perspective of what was going on.
I hope you keep coming back here ..
Hugs S :)
Jen61 said
Feb 24, 2018
Welcome to MIP.
Aline said
Feb 24, 2018
Hi, Cedar, its great you are attending meetings and came here as well. You sure have had a lot on your plate recently... (((Hugs))) and keep coming back!
Wolfie55 said
Feb 24, 2018
Welcome to MIP.
Jerry F said
Feb 24, 2018
Aloha CT and welcome to the board. Sorry with you about what has and is happening regarding you relationship with the fiancé. Yu seem knowledgeable about it and courageous about learning more. Coming to a forum of people with like experiences and different thoughts, feelings and behaviors about the disease of alcoholism and drug addict is very different than what I use to do when I didn't know about it and didn't even know that I didn't know. I found out I was born and raised with it and that I am also alcoholic. I am grateful to find out this was a disease and not a moral issue, that I was sick and not a bad, immoral person.
I also married the women I drank with and therefore it became understandable that my second marriage was to a alcoholic/addict female who I was chemically attached to on many but not all levels.
My experience with the programs of recovery go back to 1979 and I am still learning in and about recovery. The question "What is/was my part in it" was a rocket science question and I am still finding out about how I was and am affected. I was never able to think my way out of the problem. Our thinking becomes so deeply disabled and distracted that my realities were often the consequences of insanity..."the continuous and did-orderly process of thought". That was normal for and from the family I was born into until I got into Al-Anon and accepted another normal.
Today I can place myself comfortably in the shoes of both you and your fiancé. I have lived both roles. I hated being in your fiancé's shoes because my chances of arriving at right solutions were impossible with the chemical affects raging. I know your shoes also with the differences being I didn't have the awareness that you have and I was as crazy as she was only at times worse.
My addicted fiancé and I got married in Tahoe which to facilitate our insanity...married twice once in the "chapel" and once in the back seat of our rented car...LOL that still begs my sober imagination to lie about it.
She felt as bad about the disease as I did without the knowing why either and we handled it the same..."It will just go away whenever". She got into AA and relapsed and left...normal and I got into both programs and left and left again and then finally with the grace of a power greater than myself...got into Al-Anon and have stayed and after 9 years sobriety (not drinking) in Al-Anon; AA where like so many other "doubles" I know, I live on a daily basis.
I wish you strength and persistence and sanity in Al-Anon and hope on a daily basis you come back to it. It works when we work it. ((((hugs))))
Bo said
Feb 25, 2018
Welcome...obviously this is a serious situation...and in the heat of the moments, all of us have had reactions that were not ideal. They come from fear, pain, frustration, disappointment, and many more places perhaps. That said, go gentle -- on you. Don't beat yourself up. To me, it sounds like you made all the right moves -- what was best for you, and her, although, of course, she will not see it that way. I admire and respect your strength and the decisions you made.
Keep focusing on you. Go to face to face alanon meetings. As many as you can. Find a sponsor, start working with him/her, doing the work so that you can proceed and progress toward your recovery, toward your getting better. Don't engage with her. If she hits you the ping pong ball...just put down the paddle. If you get into the tug of war with her...just drop the rope. Learn about detachment, both physical and emotional. Learn about acceptance. Learn about boundaries. There's a lot to learn. Just start.
You will also learn about "letting go" -- as right now, she has to decide what she wants to do. Not with you, getting married, etc. She has to decide what she wants to do about how she wants to live her life -- getting clean and sober and getting back on a road to recovery, or if she wants to keep doing what she's doing, drinking, wallowing in anger, lashing out, etc.
Focus on you. You can and will get better, and you can and will get through this...you've already started and you're doing a very good job at it. Hang in there. Keep coming back.
tiredtonite said
Feb 25, 2018
Hi CedarTexas,
Welcome to MIP. WOW, what an emotional rollercoaster you've been on. I'm sorry you lost both of your grandmothers. I hope you'll continue to come here to share with us and that your f2f Alanon meetings are helping you through your grief. It sounds like you handled your situation with your alcoholic gf as an adult would. I'm not surprised by the ingesting of those products you mentioned because my spouse did that as well. Basically, he would use anything he could get his hands on. In my humble opinion, you did the right thing asking for time rather than going ahead with getting married. It's good self care. Alcoholics when using are instant gratification people. I don't know how long you've been in Alanon but learning more about the disease of alcoholism in action really helped me a lot. I also found open AA meetings informative. I wish I'd known more as a newcomer. Today, I know that alcoholics who are using want to be somewhere where they can continue using without interruption. Picking a fight, blaming family, acting righteously indignant and leaving the house is a great excuse to go to the bar or buy a bottle to drink in the car on quiet street somewhere. Not always.. but typically when someone wants to drink and can't in the house at least from my experience and from many stories I've read here and heard in the rooms of Alanon.
If you've been coming to Alanon for awhile, you know you aren't responsible for anyone else's behavior just your response to that behavior. It was great to hear that you are honoring your own feelings. You sound like a generous partner but know your limits. If so, that's good because we may love others but at the end of the day we're really our own best investment. Alanon teaching us love and honor our own lives above that anyone else and as our higher power does - unconditionally. No guilt.. moving forward with g.o.d. good orderly direction. Trusting the god of our understanding and trusting ourselves and what we are feeling keeps us out of insanity.
Love isn't desperate. We're told to watch the words and actions of alcoholics in our lives. Do they match? It's been a good rule of thumb for me as well in this program to do the same. To thine own self be true. Sometimes I journal when life feels unmanageable to better determine what my truth actually is. In a place of unmanageability, my thinking can become skewed. More meetings and talking it out with a trusted Alanon can also help.
Please be proud of your ability to say NO to a life changing decision such as marriage because you feel the timing is not right or the person. I wish you healing as you work through the loss of your two grandparents.
In support, TT
CedarTexas said
Mar 1, 2018
Thank you all. I posted my story on another Al-Anon board and have received a ton of support! I was planning on sending her a letter on March 5 which would have been her 2 year mark on the beginning of sobriety to tell her that I still supported her, but was recommended by other Al-anon not to. She tried to contact me over the weekend with two phone calls and three emails, but I have not responded. Her messages range from "I feel so happy we are not together" "I wasn't as in love with you as I thought" and the twisted " my family questions your own sanity" to "how are you doing?" I know now that this is all part of the disease and the narcissistic traits that it creates.. Some how this has become my fault and reaching out to her family for help has only created her pain. I have not responded to her. It is VERY hard to let her go and not communicate with her...we've known each other for 30 years and grew up in the same small town....I know that she and I will not have a intimate or amorous relationship again....I wanted to work things out, but she believes in a "geographic cure"....leaving everything behind...the problem is you can't run from you.....I don't like to think in ultimatums and think after time....a long time...that I may be a support for her....for now I'm doing ok...losing an active alcoholic is kind of like the 5 stages of dying....denial, anger, bargaining, sadness, and acceptance. I'm meditating now, writing my thoughts in a journal, attending Al-anon, and taking care of me. I tend to remember the three C's of Al-Anon....I didn't Cause her relapse, I can't Control her addiction, and I can't Cure her addiction. I hope my story reverberates with others somehow and gives them a sense of peace as we all have to take care of ourselves before we take care of others.
Iamhere said
Mar 1, 2018
There is no doubt that grief comes forward when we end a relationship. Take good care of you and make choices that work for you. You do get to decide if you respond, when you respond and how you respond - key words...if, when, how. Al-Anon gave me my sanity back just enough to decide no response speaks volumes often, especially when I am dealing with an A.
Sending positive thoughts your way!!
Bo said
Mar 1, 2018
I am glad you received a lot of support, whether it was here or somewhere else. I too went through much of the same pain, and all of the other emotions, that you are going through right now, although it was post-marriage. I can't speak to the minutia -- send a letter, don't send a letter, reply, don't reply, and so forth. What got me through this most difficult time was a constant, never-ending, laser precision focus effort -- every single minute of the day -- to focus on myself. My sponsor, who I spoke with 10 times a day sometimes told me that everything going on had nothing to do with her, her texts and what they said, her voicemails and they said, her letters, her efforts, whether she yelled or begged, screamed or pleaded. Nothing. All of it, everything had nothing to do with her. He said all of it had to do with me. Who was I going to be. How was I going to behave? How was I going to think. How was I going to react.
I looked at me, my role, my contribution -- not to blame or second-guess myself -- but I had to stop looking at her, trying to figure out what she means, what she's doing, what it all means, analyzing her statements, etc. I stopped looking at and buying into that "this was my fault" and that I was to blame. It is not easy to end a relationship where you know the person for a major portion of your life, or your entire life. It is not supposed to be easy. What I did about this was not to project. Just for Today. Just for Today. Just for Today. You and her are where you are, just for today. Don't project. Don't predict. Don't write the script for the rest of time...just for today.
Just for today, you are exactly where you need to be. For you. What is best for you. What is healthy for you. We don't get what we want...we get what we need...when we are ready and when we do the work. It doesn't matter what she wants, believes, etc. -- this is about you. This is the beginning of you getting your health and well being, and your life, back.
All the best.
Jerry F said
Mar 1, 2018
Cedar Texas thanks for the gift of this post for this old timer as it reminded me of my own crises with my alcoholic/addict wife years ago. That was a long learning trip and so valuable. It covered 5 separations which she and I tried to get our own needs met without addressing the cunning, powerful and baffling nature of the disease. I finally let the remainder of the chaos; the courts, judge, attorneys and the like keep me out of her arena and upped the influence of Al-Anon to correct my vision. I got it!! and on the final lesson I had to admit that I was powerless over alcoholism and drug addiction and that I loved her and had no reason to be married to her. I married the women I drank with and the consequences were insanity.
I sit here entering this post while in a 24 year marriage to a wonderful woman and Al-Anon Member who I didn't have reason to marry in the first place either yet didn't have any negative characteristics for it. I don't need to be married and don't need my wife. I love her and like having her here and don't need her...how sane is that? HP is my counselor on these things. Thanks for the input....(((hugs)))
Mattie said
Mar 1, 2018
I'm sorry you've gone through all this. I think we've all been in the situation where we want to be a support for the drinker. For one thing, we want them to get sober, and also we want to stay attached - or at least that's my experience of it. But the Three C's : You didn't Cause it, you can't Cure it, you can't Control it - often our "support" is just a way of trying to get them sober. And the truth is that it will happen on their timeline if it happens. And them figuring out how to do it is part of the whole recovery process. So often it is just a way for us to get attached again. But what helps most is us getting our own recovery. Take care of yourself.
Maresie said
Mar 3, 2018
Receiving have from an alcoholic is painful. Thgey know where to stick it Only a narcissist is capable of such viciousness
My ex husband died ladt month I know it used to hurt me tremendously that he said really horrible things about me
I don't believe that ever changed. Now I have sobriety under my belt I.would expect.nothing less .
I believe one of the reasons we find it hard to let go of the alcoholic is that we feel only #we# can save them
Much to my shock the ex AH got sober. He remained an active member of the fellowship toll he died To other people his life became successful
Letting go is very hard. I felt like I had failed miserably All my self esteem was tied up in that relationship.
There are so many people here who know what you are dealing with.
Alcoholics and addicts blame everyone else for their problems
They have no responsibility. Everything happens to THEM.
They have no role whatsoever in their sobriety
Some programs call that the #poor me # persons.
For me the #ppor me# persona in an alcoholic waa attractive I felt I could help them I d8d help them much to my cost.
For me I had to really look at what my rolevwas in being so obsessive about #fixing# them
CedarTexas said
Mar 4, 2018
Yeah guys, tonight is a "I miss her" night. I usually am out of town on the weekend, but it's always hard coming back to and empty house....and those that are single out there, know it's hard to cook for just one person...My kiddos, who live out of state and are young, have met and hung out with her and will be here in 3 weeks, which is exciting...they have asked about her as my sons were supposed to be my groomsmen and my daughter her brides maid..she's 5.....I have told them that things didn't work out and hope they understand....when my marriage to their mother fell apart 2 years ago, we had to go through the same thing. My hope is that they do not get a "jaded" sense of love due to all this...
Mattie said
Mar 5, 2018
In my experience you have saved your children so much grief by not making an alcoholic and all the alcoholic chaos a longterm feature of their lives.
Lots of times our natural desire to have someone special manifests as "Oh how I miss that one person so much." It also all depends on our perspective, doesn't it? You mention that cooking for one is hard - whereas when my son is away and I only have to cook for one, I am so relieved! Nobody expecting dinner at some regular time (as opposed to when I happen to be hungry), nobody eating the whole thing so there are no leftovers, nobody objecting when I make that particular odd dish I like again and again! However, I get that you are feeling the shock and the difference and the necessity of adjusting, and it doesn't all happen quickly. Take care of yourself.
Iamhere said
Mar 5, 2018
Cedar Texas - there is really no way to know what will/will not affect a child's perceptions. What I can share from my own experience is I learned interesting ways of coping based on my parents - we all do. We are the sum total of our past experiences - good, bad and indifferent. I recall things they did that I admired and things they did that I swore I would never do. And - most, if not all kids go through stages were we think our parents are embarrassing, stupid, etc. and come out a bit more mature with a bit more acceptance.
My parents have been married 67 years and it's been an interesting journey. Then, there are my own kids. With Al-Anon, I've learned to listen better and not judge or try to change them. For a long while, they were both anti-marriage and of course blamed it on 'their parents' marriage. Of course, as they experience their own relationships, loves, losses, they are coming around to realizing marriage/relationships are hard work. Lasting relationships and marriages do not come without pain, hardship, loss and issues. Relationships that don't last don't have to end with hate, blame, shame, etc.
The best lesson I have taught my children is to never give up in the face of adversity. Work to take good care of self - emotionally, spiritually, physically - and put one foot in front of the other. We all hear - actions speak louder than words and I believe my kids learned way more by what I did than what I said. So - all that Al-Anon suggests - powerlessness, not projecting, self-care, spiritual journey, etc. - have helped me be a better version of me, which they see and know is available when we stop fighting everything and everyone, and wanting our way.
I am a big believer in all that happens is not by mistake. I do believe that when I have blinders on, HP will clear the way for me to do the next right thing. It's way better to discover your truth now than after the wedding. (((Hugs)))
brought her water and crackers to help with the hangover. She told me she drank 2 bottles of wine (one was a white from 2004, yuck), a bottle of Listerine (28% alcohol in case you didn't know, I didn't), and a bottle of NyQuil, in addition to several pills on Benadryl. I knew she would be passed out for most of the day so I went about my routines away from the house. I came back that evening and she was mad that I had been gone for so long, was really upset with my actions the previous night, and just kept saying hurtful things...I thought she was drinking again, and I lost it! I said things to her that I regretted later about her destroying everything we worked for, that if she was drinking she couldn't stay in the house, etc. I was hurt. To top it all off, she recorded me on her phone saying the things I said. Ugh! We were both supposed to fly to my grandmothers funeral the next morning. I struggled if she should come or not as she was SO hateful. She told me if she didn't come with me, she wouldn't be at the house when I came back....so reluctantly I said she should come.....The whole trip, she wouldn't talk to me, acknowledge me, anything...except exchange cell phone notes on the flight on how hurt she was by my actions and she didn't know who I was. When I saw my folks at the hotel after we landed, she said she needed a nap. My folks and I went to lunch and I started crying and told them she had relapsed. My folks reminded me that we were getting married in 90 days....I had been in a bad relationship for 10 years prior to meeting my fiance....I knew we at least had to delay the wedding so I had better tools to handle a relapse. I told my fiance that evening, and understandably she freaked out. I drove her back to the airport, paid for her return ticket, and made sure she got to security. I told her I wanted to work things out, but she said "you either want to get married or you don't." The next morning I found out my other grandmother had died...when it rains it pours.. I came back from the first funeral two days later. I had been in touch with her family, sponsor, and best friend to tell them I still loved her and wanted to work things out. She was mad about that. She was still in our house, so I grabbed a couple of things and left to my apartment. She said we were done. I told her she could stay in the house as long as she needed as long as she tried to work things out. She refused and found an apartment somewhere and moved out two days later. She left practically everything that was hers in the house...All she took was a mattress, her clothes, a few dishes, and a few pieces of furniture. I told her to sell what ever she wanted to in order to help her move, but she said she didn't have time for any of that. She texted me that she's lost all this money on the wedding, her move, etc. and that I had dragged her and her family "through Hell." I decided to not contact her for awhile, but did tell her I loved her. She now texts between angry texts about how we never would have worked out and texts to check in to see how I am doing. I have not replied to these. On the plus side, I am meditating, attending Al-Anon, began a journal to write how I'm feeling, and am getting counseling. Her 2 year anniversary of when she started recovery in on March 5. I thought about sending her a card, thoughts? If you made it to this part, I appreciate the time you've taken to read all of this. Thank you!
Firstly hugs, I am so sorry to hear that your life a has been affected in such a painful way by alcoholism. This all sounds very traumatic, with this relationship difficulty coming on top ofthe grief of losing both your grandmothers. I hope you are taking care of you.
This disease is really horrible and it is tragic watching those we love harm themselves - in fact the word "tragic" seems small in comparison to how hard it really is. However, it's really great news that you are attending al anon meetings. I have found so much help there. My husband also went through a relapse after many years in recovery (starting long before I met him).
For me Al Anon literature, this message board and meetings - especially face to face meetings - have saved my sanity and changed my life. When I first came here, which wasn't that long ago, people said to me "there's hope and help in Al Anon." I have found this to be 100% true and I hope that you find it too.
All the very best.
I am one who uses any/every tool possible to bring my thinking back to me/my needs when I am concerned, troubled, obsessed about the actions/words of another. I just know for me and my situation that anytime I think I 'should' - a long pause and prayer before action helps me determine better what is rational.
I am so sorry for how you, she and all have been affected. It took me 'looking at life from outside the circle of chaos' to see how deeply the disease affects others. I now do all that I can to just stay focused on my recovery, stay on my side of the street and stay in the present moment trusting that more will always be revealed. Please keep coming back and know that you aren't alone! You don't have to do anything today but breathe and take good care of you!
It sounds like this is all still incredibly raw at the moment. I am so sorry that it's painful. It sounds like you are taking all of the right steps you are taking care of you.
I think I'm a little confused by the whole timeline of events and you keep saying her sobriety date which at this point unless she's not drinking .. she doesn't have one and no one in AA that I know is going to say .. oh you still have your sobriety date if you relapse.
Right now she doesn't sound like she's in a good place and that's for her to workout .. the great thing about Alanon is you get to work it out and come to terms with what your own stuff.
For me sometimes when in doubt don't applies very much .. nothing has to be done today and if you decide to send a card or not .. which this is my honest perspective is really not appropriate at the moment and checking motives is a big one .. what do you want out of it .. what's the emotional payoff.
Alcoholism is a truly cunning, baffling and powerful disease .. addiction is a whole new level of denial .. as the other person in the relationship I want to believe what I am told and not believe what I am being shown .. in my experience my XAH believed my consistent actions. When I stayed out of the mess .. I got a clearer perspective of what was going on.
I hope you keep coming back here ..
Hugs S :)
Aloha CT and welcome to the board. Sorry with you about what has and is happening regarding you relationship with the fiancé. Yu seem knowledgeable about it and courageous about learning more. Coming to a forum of people with like experiences and different thoughts, feelings and behaviors about the disease of alcoholism and drug addict is very different than what I use to do when I didn't know about it and didn't even know that I didn't know. I found out I was born and raised with it and that I am also alcoholic. I am grateful to find out this was a disease and not a moral issue, that I was sick and not a bad, immoral person.
I also married the women I drank with and therefore it became understandable that my second marriage was to a alcoholic/addict female who I was chemically attached to on many but not all levels.
My experience with the programs of recovery go back to 1979 and I am still learning in and about recovery. The question "What is/was my part in it" was a rocket science question and I am still finding out about how I was and am affected. I was never able to think my way out of the problem. Our thinking becomes so deeply disabled and distracted that my realities were often the consequences of insanity..."the continuous and did-orderly process of thought". That was normal for and from the family I was born into until I got into Al-Anon and accepted another normal.
Today I can place myself comfortably in the shoes of both you and your fiancé. I have lived both roles. I hated being in your fiancé's shoes because my chances of arriving at right solutions were impossible with the chemical affects raging. I know your shoes also with the differences being I didn't have the awareness that you have and I was as crazy as she was only at times worse.
My addicted fiancé and I got married in Tahoe which to facilitate our insanity...married twice once in the "chapel" and once in the back seat of our rented car...LOL that still begs my sober imagination to lie about it.
She felt as bad about the disease as I did without the knowing why either and we handled it the same..."It will just go away whenever". She got into AA and relapsed and left...normal and I got into both programs and left and left again and then finally with the grace of a power greater than myself...got into Al-Anon and have stayed and after 9 years sobriety (not drinking) in Al-Anon; AA where like so many other "doubles" I know, I live on a daily basis.
I wish you strength and persistence and sanity in Al-Anon and hope on a daily basis you come back to it. It works when we work it. ((((hugs))))
Keep focusing on you. Go to face to face alanon meetings. As many as you can. Find a sponsor, start working with him/her, doing the work so that you can proceed and progress toward your recovery, toward your getting better. Don't engage with her. If she hits you the ping pong ball...just put down the paddle. If you get into the tug of war with her...just drop the rope. Learn about detachment, both physical and emotional. Learn about acceptance. Learn about boundaries. There's a lot to learn. Just start.
You will also learn about "letting go" -- as right now, she has to decide what she wants to do. Not with you, getting married, etc. She has to decide what she wants to do about how she wants to live her life -- getting clean and sober and getting back on a road to recovery, or if she wants to keep doing what she's doing, drinking, wallowing in anger, lashing out, etc.
Focus on you. You can and will get better, and you can and will get through this...you've already started and you're doing a very good job at it. Hang in there. Keep coming back.
Hi CedarTexas,
Welcome to MIP. WOW, what an emotional rollercoaster you've been on. I'm sorry you lost both of your grandmothers. I hope you'll continue to come here to share with us and that your f2f Alanon meetings are helping you through your grief. It sounds like you handled your situation with your alcoholic gf as an adult would. I'm not surprised by the ingesting of those products you mentioned because my spouse did that as well. Basically, he would use anything he could get his hands on. In my humble opinion, you did the right thing asking for time rather than going ahead with getting married. It's good self care. Alcoholics when using are instant gratification people. I don't know how long you've been in Alanon but learning more about the disease of alcoholism in action really helped me a lot. I also found open AA meetings informative. I wish I'd known more as a newcomer. Today, I know that alcoholics who are using want to be somewhere where they can continue using without interruption. Picking a fight, blaming family, acting righteously indignant and leaving the house is a great excuse to go to the bar or buy a bottle to drink in the car on quiet street somewhere. Not always.. but typically when someone wants to drink and can't in the house at least from my experience and from many stories I've read here and heard in the rooms of Alanon.
If you've been coming to Alanon for awhile, you know you aren't responsible for anyone else's behavior just your response to that behavior. It was great to hear that you are honoring your own feelings. You sound like a generous partner but know your limits. If so, that's good because we may love others but at the end of the day we're really our own best investment. Alanon teaching us love and honor our own lives above that anyone else and as our higher power does - unconditionally. No guilt.. moving forward with g.o.d. good orderly direction. Trusting the god of our understanding and trusting ourselves and what we are feeling keeps us out of insanity.
Love isn't desperate. We're told to watch the words and actions of alcoholics in our lives. Do they match? It's been a good rule of thumb for me as well in this program to do the same. To thine own self be true. Sometimes I journal when life feels unmanageable to better determine what my truth actually is. In a place of unmanageability, my thinking can become skewed. More meetings and talking it out with a trusted Alanon can also help.
Please be proud of your ability to say NO to a life changing decision such as marriage because you feel the timing is not right or the person. I wish you healing as you work through the loss of your two grandparents.
In support, TT
Sending positive thoughts your way!!
I am glad you received a lot of support, whether it was here or somewhere else. I too went through much of the same pain, and all of the other emotions, that you are going through right now, although it was post-marriage. I can't speak to the minutia -- send a letter, don't send a letter, reply, don't reply, and so forth. What got me through this most difficult time was a constant, never-ending, laser precision focus effort -- every single minute of the day -- to focus on myself. My sponsor, who I spoke with 10 times a day sometimes told me that everything going on had nothing to do with her, her texts and what they said, her voicemails and they said, her letters, her efforts, whether she yelled or begged, screamed or pleaded. Nothing. All of it, everything had nothing to do with her. He said all of it had to do with me. Who was I going to be. How was I going to behave? How was I going to think. How was I going to react.
I looked at me, my role, my contribution -- not to blame or second-guess myself -- but I had to stop looking at her, trying to figure out what she means, what she's doing, what it all means, analyzing her statements, etc. I stopped looking at and buying into that "this was my fault" and that I was to blame. It is not easy to end a relationship where you know the person for a major portion of your life, or your entire life. It is not supposed to be easy. What I did about this was not to project. Just for Today. Just for Today. Just for Today. You and her are where you are, just for today. Don't project. Don't predict. Don't write the script for the rest of time...just for today.
Just for today, you are exactly where you need to be. For you. What is best for you. What is healthy for you. We don't get what we want...we get what we need...when we are ready and when we do the work. It doesn't matter what she wants, believes, etc. -- this is about you. This is the beginning of you getting your health and well being, and your life, back.
All the best.
Cedar Texas thanks for the gift of this post for this old timer as it reminded me of my own crises with my alcoholic/addict wife years ago. That was a long learning trip and so valuable. It covered 5 separations which she and I tried to get our own needs met without addressing the cunning, powerful and baffling nature of the disease. I finally let the remainder of the chaos; the courts, judge, attorneys and the like keep me out of her arena and upped the influence of Al-Anon to correct my vision. I got it!! and on the final lesson I had to admit that I was powerless over alcoholism and drug addiction and that I loved her and had no reason to be married to her. I married the women I drank with and the consequences were insanity.
I sit here entering this post while in a 24 year marriage to a wonderful woman and Al-Anon Member who I didn't have reason to marry in the first place either yet didn't have any negative characteristics for it. I don't need to be married and don't need my wife. I love her and like having her here and don't need her...how sane is that? HP is my counselor on these things. Thanks for the input....(((hugs)))
I'm sorry you've gone through all this. I think we've all been in the situation where we want to be a support for the drinker. For one thing, we want them to get sober, and also we want to stay attached - or at least that's my experience of it. But the Three C's : You didn't Cause it, you can't Cure it, you can't Control it - often our "support" is just a way of trying to get them sober. And the truth is that it will happen on their timeline if it happens. And them figuring out how to do it is part of the whole recovery process. So often it is just a way for us to get attached again. But what helps most is us getting our own recovery. Take care of yourself.
Receiving have from an alcoholic is painful. Thgey know where to stick it Only a narcissist is capable of such viciousness
My ex husband died ladt month I know it used to hurt me tremendously that he said really horrible things about me
I don't believe that ever changed. Now I have sobriety under my belt I.would expect.nothing less .
I believe one of the reasons we find it hard to let go of the alcoholic is that we feel only #we# can save them
Much to my shock the ex AH got sober. He remained an active member of the fellowship toll he died To other people his life became successful
Letting go is very hard. I felt like I had failed miserably All my self esteem was tied up in that relationship.
There are so many people here who know what you are dealing with.
Alcoholics and addicts blame everyone else for their problems
They have no responsibility. Everything happens to THEM.
They have no role whatsoever in their sobriety
Some programs call that the #poor me # persons.
For me the #ppor me# persona in an alcoholic waa attractive I felt I could help them I d8d help them much to my cost.
For me I had to really look at what my rolevwas in being so obsessive about #fixing# them
In my experience you have saved your children so much grief by not making an alcoholic and all the alcoholic chaos a longterm feature of their lives.
Lots of times our natural desire to have someone special manifests as "Oh how I miss that one person so much." It also all depends on our perspective, doesn't it? You mention that cooking for one is hard - whereas when my son is away and I only have to cook for one, I am so relieved! Nobody expecting dinner at some regular time (as opposed to when I happen to be hungry), nobody eating the whole thing so there are no leftovers, nobody objecting when I make that particular odd dish I like again and again! However, I get that you are feeling the shock and the difference and the necessity of adjusting, and it doesn't all happen quickly. Take care of yourself.
My parents have been married 67 years and it's been an interesting journey. Then, there are my own kids. With Al-Anon, I've learned to listen better and not judge or try to change them. For a long while, they were both anti-marriage and of course blamed it on 'their parents' marriage. Of course, as they experience their own relationships, loves, losses, they are coming around to realizing marriage/relationships are hard work. Lasting relationships and marriages do not come without pain, hardship, loss and issues. Relationships that don't last don't have to end with hate, blame, shame, etc.
The best lesson I have taught my children is to never give up in the face of adversity. Work to take good care of self - emotionally, spiritually, physically - and put one foot in front of the other. We all hear - actions speak louder than words and I believe my kids learned way more by what I did than what I said. So - all that Al-Anon suggests - powerlessness, not projecting, self-care, spiritual journey, etc. - have helped me be a better version of me, which they see and know is available when we stop fighting everything and everyone, and wanting our way.
I am a big believer in all that happens is not by mistake. I do believe that when I have blinders on, HP will clear the way for me to do the next right thing. It's way better to discover your truth now than after the wedding. (((Hugs)))