I am new to Al-Anon and have been reading One Day At A Time with Al-Anon. It talks a lot about focusing on me and the things that I can do to make myself healthy. But at what point does that include giving up on an AH? I hear people say that it is the disease that makes him so mean. He never hits, but his words are hurtful, especially when he's drunk. So do I just absolve him from responsibility because he has a disease? Or do I let him know that he cannot talk to me like this? When is the relationship abusive enough that you leave?
Freetime said
Feb 21, 2018
While recognizing it is a disease, Al-Anon also reminds us that we don't have to accept unacceptable behavior. We can realize that the hurtful words are not accurate, that it's the disease talking, and often the person's negative attitude is really towards themselves.
How to respond? From what I have learned, it is fine to say that "I won't listen to or stick around for that kind of language." It is OK to leave the room. It is OK to have a Plan B -- a place to go to get away from it, and a bag packed in case we need to leave for our own sanity.
As to staying or leaving the relationship, I'm sure others will be along here to share their experience with that, so please keep checking back.
hotrod said
Feb 21, 2018
Hello hicktownmom I a so very sorry that you are enduing such negative verbal abuse and an glad that you have an ODAT that you are reading for inspiration .
Alanon suggests that we make no major life changes until we are in program at least 6 months. The reason for this suggestions is that by attending face to face meetings we develop positive coping tools that allow us to interact with the person who is afflicted by the disease of alcoholism in a more constructive manner .
Sharing at meetings helped me to learn new ways to respond to the insanity of this disease. Detachment is indeed a powerful tool and is discussed in detail in the ODAT. as are the slogans and steps Please keep coming back and do try to attend more face to face meetings . You are not alone
WestMan said
Feb 21, 2018
Hi Hicktownmom, I know I had similar questions when I began going to Al-Anon. I was nearing the end of my rope with the poor treatment, the walking on eggshells or trying to figure out the secrets steps to get around the booby traps that changed locations every day it seemed. As I slowly began to grow into Al-anon things were better in some ways, worse in others. I had more peace much of the time, I had a network of people to help guide me who understood but also helped me get the focus on the one person I could actually do something about. Me. In the end I filed for divorce. It has been hard but, so far, it seems to have been the best decision I could make at the time.
Aline said
Feb 21, 2018
Hi, HTM, welcome to MIP! I asked myself very similar questions some time ago... There's no single right answer that fits all, but in time, working my program, I came to my own answer. In Alanon we learn to take care of ourselves regardless of what the alcoholic is or isn't doing, and it was and is what I'm working on. Alanon has been immensely helpful, pivotal, actually, in this. The 3 Cs come to mind - I didn't Cause it (alcoholism), I can't Control it and I can't Cure it. When asking myself these questions you ask about I found very helpful the thought: I don't have to accept the negative of the situation, just the fact of it. With help from MIP folks I too came up with plan B in case things got really bad/unhealthy... The biggest thing for me was that my now ex-abf used to not let me sleep if he wanted something from me, which often let me exhausted, of course. My plan B in case he was doing it or if any dangerous situation occured was, I made an arrangement with a family friend that I could stay at their place for the night, since they lived very close by. Although I didn't end up using plan B, I felt better and safer that I had it. My ex-abf wasn't physically abusive but there are lots of other forms of abuse that are very destructive... There is a saying in Alanon: say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean. I know for me, though, I could and did say a hundred times to my ex that its totally not OK to disturb my sleep, that I need rest, that I have to get up for work the next day. He just didn't listen though, and that wasn't something I could change. In the end the sleep deprivation for the third night in a row along with accompanying display of rage was what made up my mind to leave one night. I was 5 months into Alanon then, I had really tried to make things work with us. Other people do make it and stick together, but it just wasn't possible for me. I know of many relationships that endure. Attending Alanon started to bring about positive changes in me and some attitudes of my ex also improved as a natural response to that, though. Keep coming back, there is help and hope in this program. ((((Hugs))))
Groo said
Feb 22, 2018
I was hounded day and night. He would get drunk and sit on the back patio and send texts no matter if I was home or somewhere else. It always led to blame and anger on his part. He broke my things when I didn't answer. He has broken in half of the doors in my house because I wouldn't answer. I was awakened night after night at 2:30 in the morning with texts and personal appearances. That's when I started sleeping on other people's sofas because there was no escaping him in my own home. This went on for a year until my niece said, "you know you can just hit 'do not disturb' in his contact setting." OMG it hit me then and there that I don't have to answer to his demands 24/7. I thought I had to because he demanded it. It sounds crazy but it truly never occurred to me to just not answer. I used Alanon advice and from that point never argued back and simply said, "you may be right." I started setting boundaries like, I would not talk to him when he was drunk, and I will somewhere else the next night I if he wakes me up at 2:30 AM. He has since run through all of his friends when he turned that behavior on them, and a few family members as well. He was shocked when a friend of 15 years dumped him after one particular night of horrible accusations and put downs. I met with the friend not to apologize on my AH's behalf (although you know he tried to get me to do the apologizing), but to thank him for being a good friend to our family for so many years. AH is now a very lonely man who wishes he had friends, but continues to drink.
Bo said
Feb 22, 2018
Welcome...my first experience and first insight, guidance, advice that was shared with me was...go to meetings! Go to Face to face meetings, as many as you can. Listen, learn, and focus on you. Find a sponsor, and start working with him/her. Recovery, you getting better, and healthy...is a journey. That may sound generic or benign, and to some extent perhaps it is. On that note, personally, when newcomers come here, struggling, in-crisis, looking for help, looking for what to do now, etc., I have always felt there is more than "go to meetings" and "keep coming back" but that's just me.
So, you asked several questions? At what point...giving up on an AH? Now, this is just my experience, and I've been asked that question countless times throughout the years, however, there is no one answer. There is no answer as to whether you should or shouldn't and if so when. Al-anon is not a program to tell, show, educate people in staying married or getting divorced. What it is however is a program where you can get better, you can get healthy, and then arrive at a point where you can make intelligent, healthy decisions, based upon intellect, quality and healthy thinking, and decisions that you are ready to make. Today, here, as a newcomer, you might feel like if you made a decision today, you might be making that decision under duress, pressure, emotional stress, fear, panic, and more. Certainly, ideally, those are not conditions under which one should be making decisions. That is part of the reason why you might hear in face to face meetings that you shouldn't make any major, life changing, etc., decisions for 6 months.
You also asked about...absolve him from responsibility...from my experience, how I live my life as a result of al-anon, my experience, learning, etc. -- no I don't absolve the alcoholic from that type of behavior or treatment because they have an illness. I absolutely do not accept unacceptable behavior. I don't put up with it. I don't condemn or punish the alcoholic...but what I do is...detachment. I have boundaries. When my AW was treating me poorly, verbally attacking me, assaulting me, abusing me, my boundary was...when you do that...I will go into another room, close/lock the door, as I will not accept that type of treatment. If the comments/attack continues, or she tries to continue, get into the room, etc. -- then I will leave the house. It is my choice and my responsibility to not accept unacceptable behavior. I do also let her know, sometimes in the moment, sometimes after, sometimes both, that, no, that is unacceptable behavior. By me not "staying" for that -- that is my boundary. I am not giving an ultimatum. I am not threatening her. I am not even trying to get her to change. Now, this type of behavior was a deal breaker for me and it continued. You can say it was because her drinking continued, or you can tell me there were other reasons. It didn't matter to me. I didn't analyze it, try to fix it/her, etc. The more I tried to figure it out, the more I drove myself crazy. Bottom line -- this was unacceptable behavior. Period. So, for me, personally, this was unacceptable behavior. Yes, I understand the person has a disease. Without question. However, at a certain point, when I got healthy, when I got better...I had to look at...is this how I want to live my life? Is this the life I want to live? There's a lot more to that, and much of it is outside the scope of this thread.
This program is for us. It allows us to make changes, to our behavior, actions/reactions, and our thinking. It allows us to get better. When that happens...we can then start to make healthy decisions, for us, what is best for us, healthy for us, and so forth.
I am new to Al-Anon and have been reading One Day At A Time with Al-Anon. It talks a lot about focusing on me and the things that I can do to make myself healthy. But at what point does that include giving up on an AH? I hear people say that it is the disease that makes him so mean. He never hits, but his words are hurtful, especially when he's drunk. So do I just absolve him from responsibility because he has a disease? Or do I let him know that he cannot talk to me like this? When is the relationship abusive enough that you leave?
How to respond? From what I have learned, it is fine to say that "I won't listen to or stick around for that kind of language." It is OK to leave the room. It is OK to have a Plan B -- a place to go to get away from it, and a bag packed in case we need to leave for our own sanity.
As to staying or leaving the relationship, I'm sure others will be along here to share their experience with that, so please keep checking back.
Alanon suggests that we make no major life changes until we are in program at least 6 months. The reason for this suggestions is that by attending face to face meetings we develop positive coping tools that allow us to interact with the person who is afflicted by the disease of alcoholism in a more constructive manner .
Sharing at meetings helped me to learn new ways to respond to the insanity of this disease. Detachment is indeed a powerful tool and is discussed in detail in the ODAT. as are the slogans and steps Please keep coming back and do try to attend more face to face meetings . You are not alone
Welcome...my first experience and first insight, guidance, advice that was shared with me was...go to meetings! Go to Face to face meetings, as many as you can. Listen, learn, and focus on you. Find a sponsor, and start working with him/her. Recovery, you getting better, and healthy...is a journey. That may sound generic or benign, and to some extent perhaps it is. On that note, personally, when newcomers come here, struggling, in-crisis, looking for help, looking for what to do now, etc., I have always felt there is more than "go to meetings" and "keep coming back" but that's just me.
So, you asked several questions? At what point...giving up on an AH? Now, this is just my experience, and I've been asked that question countless times throughout the years, however, there is no one answer. There is no answer as to whether you should or shouldn't and if so when. Al-anon is not a program to tell, show, educate people in staying married or getting divorced. What it is however is a program where you can get better, you can get healthy, and then arrive at a point where you can make intelligent, healthy decisions, based upon intellect, quality and healthy thinking, and decisions that you are ready to make. Today, here, as a newcomer, you might feel like if you made a decision today, you might be making that decision under duress, pressure, emotional stress, fear, panic, and more. Certainly, ideally, those are not conditions under which one should be making decisions. That is part of the reason why you might hear in face to face meetings that you shouldn't make any major, life changing, etc., decisions for 6 months.
You also asked about...absolve him from responsibility...from my experience, how I live my life as a result of al-anon, my experience, learning, etc. -- no I don't absolve the alcoholic from that type of behavior or treatment because they have an illness. I absolutely do not accept unacceptable behavior. I don't put up with it. I don't condemn or punish the alcoholic...but what I do is...detachment. I have boundaries. When my AW was treating me poorly, verbally attacking me, assaulting me, abusing me, my boundary was...when you do that...I will go into another room, close/lock the door, as I will not accept that type of treatment. If the comments/attack continues, or she tries to continue, get into the room, etc. -- then I will leave the house. It is my choice and my responsibility to not accept unacceptable behavior. I do also let her know, sometimes in the moment, sometimes after, sometimes both, that, no, that is unacceptable behavior. By me not "staying" for that -- that is my boundary. I am not giving an ultimatum. I am not threatening her. I am not even trying to get her to change. Now, this type of behavior was a deal breaker for me and it continued. You can say it was because her drinking continued, or you can tell me there were other reasons. It didn't matter to me. I didn't analyze it, try to fix it/her, etc. The more I tried to figure it out, the more I drove myself crazy. Bottom line -- this was unacceptable behavior. Period. So, for me, personally, this was unacceptable behavior. Yes, I understand the person has a disease. Without question. However, at a certain point, when I got healthy, when I got better...I had to look at...is this how I want to live my life? Is this the life I want to live? There's a lot more to that, and much of it is outside the scope of this thread.
This program is for us. It allows us to make changes, to our behavior, actions/reactions, and our thinking. It allows us to get better. When that happens...we can then start to make healthy decisions, for us, what is best for us, healthy for us, and so forth.
On that note...keep coming back...