My functiong alcoholic partner has been on one today and I'm left feeling hurt and confused.
My partner phoned me in work today. To cut a long story short, he got in a huff about something I said over th3 phone that I thought was perfectly reasonable. He hung up the phone on me. Later on when I got home he was sulking with me. He wouldn't make a decision whether to come to the supermarket or not with me. He said I had to decide what he was going to do. Then he sulked all evening, and went to bed early muttering something under his breath. Saying that, he did cook dinner and helped put the shopping away.
I would like to know whether you think this is alcoholic behavior or emotional abuse? Or both or neither?
I have no idea how to respond to or deal with this behavior.
Many thanks,
Lil
Jerry F said
Feb 14, 2018
What works for me now is that "If I don't know...let it go". I don't need excuses to feel bitter and resentful...those two are killers of my spirit so I learned to let it go. I rather be happy. Thanks for the share...have a good day. ((((hugs))))
bud said
Feb 14, 2018
Oh Jerry - I LOVE that " If I don't know... ket it go."
((Lil99)) Please feel validated that this behavior is moody and unpleasant to say the least. It helps to shift the focus so you're not riding on his emotional roller coaster... practice detachment and not taking his problem as something he's doing to you, but something he's doing because he isn't able to think or respond in a healthy way.
One time, a wise person told me to not as "why?" (why is he doing this?, etc) but instead ask "what for?" (what lesson can I learn to set a better boundary and keep myself out of harm's way?, etc)
Aline said
Feb 15, 2018
Hi, Lil. This behavior reminds me quite a lot of how my ex-abf used to act, and I completely understand your confusion. I was confused more often than I wasn't when interacting with him the more the disease progressed. My automatic response was try and figure out what exactly is happening to clear the confusion, but I never could. Someone suggested that alcoholics do what they do because they are alcoholics, and I don't have to try to figure out the exact reasons, well, the thought was something like that. I still tend to want to read minds, but I've gotten a bit better. Focusing on how to take care of myself, how I feel, what are my needs and how to get them met, is very important self care thing, I am still learning and I slip often, and this is something I can do despite what is going on around me, if I remember and don(t get sucked into another person's drama... I'm trying to remember there's no need to try to understand the reasons for another persons behavior to protect myself. I have been a wanna be mind reader for years, and I'm now trying to break the habit. Any baby steps bring a bit more peace. (((Hugs))), keep coming back, the program really works when we work it!
Iamhere said
Feb 15, 2018
It took me a while in recovery to learn that how another acts is never a reflection on me. Each of us, in active addiction or in active recovery is responsible for our own actions, words, etc. When mine are 'acting the fool', I tend to detach as best I can and actually depart if necessary. I also just give them to God as I don't believe he wants me to waste any more of my energy trying to fix, change, understand, etc. what another may/may not be feeling, thinking, etc.
Al-Anon did give me the tools to change me and the way I think about 'life events'. It's been a game changer and I am grateful. You are not alone - there is hope and help for how this disease effects us in recovery!
Mattie said
Feb 15, 2018
I think one important thing is that it's dysfunctional and bad for your relationship, however you categorize it. In some ways the "why"s don't matter. I know in trying to understand my A's behavior, I tended to tie myself in knots: "This isn't really who he is, because his behavior is just caused by ... [whatever]." But there's that saying, "When someone shows you who he is, believe him." This guy is a guy who can't handle anger constructively, who shows a disregard and disrespect for other people, and who is self-absorbed. Part of that may be due to alcoholism, in that he distracted himself from his feelings with alcohol and never learned how to relate respectfully. That doesn't mean that sobriety would stop the problem, since he'd still have to a) be convinced it is a problem [some people never reach this stage, and b) re-learn how to treat people [many people never reach this stage either]. It's also true that many people who are not alcoholics display this kind of unhealthy behavior.
Another question that you don't ask in your post, and that it took me a long time to get around to, is "Why do I stay around for this? Is there something in me that makes me think it's okay to be treated badly?" Working on that question was the one that brought me the most rewarding answers.
Take good care of yourself.
Maresie said
Feb 15, 2018
The ex A was notoriously uncooperative in doing essential tasks He would make going to the grocery store hell. He procrastinated to excess. I.would do things like pay for some other things so the groceries didn't fall in my.court. Then he would buy the groceries and believe me then there was nothing to eat I didn't make it up Whatever the consequence he always resisted
Nothing but nothing changed the sulki ng the pettiness the lack of cooperation Addicts are renown for being oppositional
The conversations we had were pretty much ak ways about his problems. If I had a problem it was a major undertaking to get him on board When he was on board he spent a lot of time on impression management around others He needed to come off as the sweet funny generous one I was to be the nagging
difficult one I wasn't able to be calm back then. I couldn't not be the nagging miserable person I.became
There is a real fall out from alcoholism I really don't blame many families for giving up on their family members They are beyond their resources
-- Edited by Maresie on Friday 16th of February 2018 10:32:53 AM
Lil99 said
Feb 15, 2018
Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts. This is really helpful.
I've been in a much better place today. Not getting on that rollercoaster with him.
Lil
MeTwo2 said
Feb 17, 2018
Went to a meeting this week and listened to one share on emotional sobriety. I see today 'emotional sobriety is something i never had. I dont know whatever made me think i would have it could or heck even should when there was so much emotional abuse. No opinion on whether this is emotional abuse except to say all that guessing in the dark an digging for the hidden truth sent my emotions on a coaster ride. Suppose thats similar to what Jerry F is sharing up there. If i dont let it go it ends up dragging me. Problem for me was hearing someone tell me to just let it go felt crazy at times because i realise today its pretty hard to just Let go of an addiction regardless of what the addiction is. He was addicted to drugs i was very much addicted to him. Find today i cant let go of anything alone without meetings an even then its a process not an event. Hope you try some if you havent already. Face to face. Theres online meets too. Wishing you much serenity.
SerenityRUS said
Feb 19, 2018
I have waited to respond to this thread because sometimes I think I am abnormal in this area ..
I have choices and so do the people in my life .. I know from my stand point I forget. So I make a choice expecting an ABC conversation because I have had that in my head ... and I wind up with a XAFG conversation that I am then shocked by and surprised the conversation didn't go as planned. LOL .. that's my twisted thinking. What do you mean someone else can make a choice outside of my expectation of what's going to happen. I have mellowed out a lot over the past year.
In dealing with the issue of a newly "sober" person the getting to the actual emotional sobriety takes years and I'm coming from my stand point .. I didn't drink to get there .. LOL. I think it's important to be aware that some recovering people get there and some don't .. that's a fact of maturity I am talking about too. I realized that in dealing with my XAH that if his emotional growth was stunted at the time he started drinking then where was I with codependency and where did I need to go with my own growth.
Is it abuse? I don't know .. however I am an adamant firm believer that abuse in all forms is NOT ok. So I qualify that statement by how I feel. Do I feel badly about myself after the conversation in terms of you're fat, you're ugly, no one will ever want you, you are lucky to have me around. Put downs covert or overt, I find are ways to control and manipulate .. the XAH in my life was a pro at those. Do I feel my safety is threatened? If that's a yes, .. plan A - Z so I know I have a way out and get in touch with the DV office in your area for moral support and counseling. What does safety mean to you is another one to ask yourself. Am I left feeling confused after I have spoken to my sig other and things are twisted up and there is a "fault" in the situation .. now .. sometimes that happens because no one likes to be "wrong" .. I tend to be a right fighter and want to justify my position. I now move conversations more towards what can be done to better the situation if it comes up again. I own MY part .. I don't own all of it unless I was totally on the left side of wrong .. and that for me is usually about my responses. I don't agree with "let it go" when it comes to abuse .. abuse is abuse plain and simple. I know that can be for an uncomfortable conversation with self. It is not ok. Now I can forgive my abuser for myself and not make the actions right or wrong .. I am not willing to "forget" they happened because I would not want to be in that position again
Alanon really is a great place to figure things out in terms of what does and doesn't work for you.
I hope you will keep coming back. While letting go or be dragged is a great slogan .. there are some things that are not to be ignored .. you will figure out what is and is not ok for you.
Hugs S :)
Bo said
Feb 19, 2018
I find the "not getting on the rollercoaster" with the addict/alcoholic -- literally, figuratively, emotionally, and in any other way -- was the key to me "doing the right thing" so to speak. Doing what was best for me, healthy for me, right for me. Now, that wasn't punitive. I wasn't punishing the addict/alcoholic. I wasn't ignoring them, or abandoning them. I wasn't being cold or dismissive. I just wasn't -- being a partner in their drama, lifestyle, chaos, turmoil, and so on. Actually, I wasn't a partner in anything they were doing -- because they were still using! That was my boundary.
My experience was that the addict/alcoholic wanted me to give them something, do something with him, for them, help them, and so on. First, they were not clean and sober, so I would not. Second, it was most often something I was not comfortable doing or something that wouldn't be healthy for me. Sure, what usually resulted in me getting accused of abandoning them, not being there for them, not loving them, etc. Well, looking back at it -- sounds like a personal problem to me, LOL. Seriously, after I started getting better, I was OK with that. If the alcoholic/addict is mad at you, upset with you, not happy with you...then you are probably doing something right.
Lil, go to face to face meetings -- as many as you can. Start learning, listening, reading, and find a sponsor. One question you asked -- whether this was alcoholic behavior or emotional abuse? Or both or neither? One woman, at one of my first meetings answered me -- when I asked the same exact question -- it doesn't matter. What you should be asking yourself is "Is this unacceptable behavior" and "Am I accepting unacceptable behavior". Why? Because alanon is about us. It is about you.
Keep coming back.
-- Edited by Bo on Monday 19th of February 2018 11:44:04 AM
tiredtonite said
Feb 22, 2018
Hi Lil,
Thanks for sharing. Since you asked for feedback, my guess is it's a communications problem. His response to it is to hang up on you. I've hung up on people once in awhile. Fortunately, I haven't found the need to do this very often over a lifetime. I'm pointing the finger inward to answer your request for feedback because Alanon is always about me and not the other person. I've hung up on peoplle when I felt angered by what they said and didn't know how to respond, felt shamed by family member and suddenly vulnerable and was too prideful to say that what they said hurt me, when I felt indignant that someone pointed out a truth that I didn't want to acknowledge. Of course I have hung up when someone spoke abusively or screamed at me on the phone. I did that to honor myself as a person worthy of acceptable treatment.
I'm not an alcoholic but live with a sober one who has hung up on me. That hasn't happened for some years now but when it did, it was due to a breakdown in communication. I take some responsibility for this because I phoned at inappropriate times like while he was busy and concentrating on his job, driving home and in traffic etc. I had something on my mind and wanted to make sure he knew about it right then and there. This had nothing to do with taking my personal power back as a person in the Alanon program. It was selfish behavior on my part, a need for an instant response. It was disrespectful of him, his day and whatever he might be doing at that time.
Please don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that poor timing makes me culpable for the another person's poor response. I am saying however, that just maybe wanting an answer on demand contributed to the response I was given. For us, this was less than healthy communication and hanging up was what I sometimes got or gave him. Sometimes a call is necessary but trying to keep it simple and especially leaving any personal grievances out of the call has worked better for us. If I make a request, I have to be prepared to accept "no" and not engage in an argument. I certainly can get off the phone politely and call someone in the program (sponsor) and vent about it and get help reasoning it out.
"He said I had to decide what he was going to do." OK.. maybe he is being a little dramatic here?? From your post, I don't get the impression that he means this literally. Maybe it's a bit of sarcasm on his part? Does he feel heard? Anyway, loving support of the alcoholic for me anyway has always included talking things out when the dust settles and also showing appreciation for the things my partner does do. My expectations of other people get me in trouble. I have to keep my judgement out of it when asking for help. What might seem natural to me as far as taking responsibility, offering help and taking things at face value, may not be received that way by another person. So, I'm trying to keep Alanon in front of me these days when communicating my wants, needs and also not forgetting to offer help to others in a way that doesn't compromise my own dignity.
Saying thanks for helping today has also been helpful for opening communication to discuss things lovingly. (((hugs)) TT
Wolfie55 said
Feb 22, 2018
Thanks for sharing. I see by the number of posts you have made that you might be relatively new to all this. The thing to keep in mind is that alcoholism is a disease with many symptoms. Sometimes, the symptoms, the behavior, of an alcoholic is difficult to comprehend. In many instances, the alcoholic may use childish behavior, throwing temper tantrums, and when those don't work, sulking. And if that doesn't work, then they grudgingly comply. I know this, because I used to be one. Well, I still am of course, but I've been sober a very long time.
Get to some face to face meetings and by all means keep coming here. And thank you for making me think a bit today. It was just what I needed.
Help!
My functiong alcoholic partner has been on one today and I'm left feeling hurt and confused.
My partner phoned me in work today. To cut a long story short, he got in a huff about something I said over th3 phone that I thought was perfectly reasonable. He hung up the phone on me. Later on when I got home he was sulking with me. He wouldn't make a decision whether to come to the supermarket or not with me. He said I had to decide what he was going to do. Then he sulked all evening, and went to bed early muttering something under his breath. Saying that, he did cook dinner and helped put the shopping away.
I would like to know whether you think this is alcoholic behavior or emotional abuse? Or both or neither?
I have no idea how to respond to or deal with this behavior.
Many thanks,
Lil
What works for me now is that "If I don't know...let it go". I don't need excuses to feel bitter and resentful...those two are killers of my spirit so I learned to let it go. I rather be happy. Thanks for the share...have a good day. ((((hugs))))
((Lil99)) Please feel validated that this behavior is moody and unpleasant to say the least. It helps to shift the focus so you're not riding on his emotional roller coaster... practice detachment and not taking his problem as something he's doing to you, but something he's doing because he isn't able to think or respond in a healthy way.
One time, a wise person told me to not as "why?" (why is he doing this?, etc) but instead ask "what for?" (what lesson can I learn to set a better boundary and keep myself out of harm's way?, etc)
Al-Anon did give me the tools to change me and the way I think about 'life events'. It's been a game changer and I am grateful. You are not alone - there is hope and help for how this disease effects us in recovery!
I think one important thing is that it's dysfunctional and bad for your relationship, however you categorize it. In some ways the "why"s don't matter. I know in trying to understand my A's behavior, I tended to tie myself in knots: "This isn't really who he is, because his behavior is just caused by ... [whatever]." But there's that saying, "When someone shows you who he is, believe him." This guy is a guy who can't handle anger constructively, who shows a disregard and disrespect for other people, and who is self-absorbed. Part of that may be due to alcoholism, in that he distracted himself from his feelings with alcohol and never learned how to relate respectfully. That doesn't mean that sobriety would stop the problem, since he'd still have to a) be convinced it is a problem [some people never reach this stage, and b) re-learn how to treat people [many people never reach this stage either]. It's also true that many people who are not alcoholics display this kind of unhealthy behavior.
Another question that you don't ask in your post, and that it took me a long time to get around to, is "Why do I stay around for this? Is there something in me that makes me think it's okay to be treated badly?" Working on that question was the one that brought me the most rewarding answers.
Take good care of yourself.
The ex A was notoriously uncooperative in doing essential tasks He would make going to the grocery store hell. He procrastinated to excess. I.would do things like pay for some other things so the groceries didn't fall in my.court. Then he would buy the groceries and believe me then there was nothing to eat I didn't make it up Whatever the consequence he always resisted
Nothing but nothing changed the sulki ng the pettiness the lack of cooperation Addicts are renown for being oppositional
The conversations we had were pretty much ak ways about his problems. If I had a problem it was a major undertaking to get him on board When he was on board he spent a lot of time on impression management around others He needed to come off as the sweet funny generous one I was to be the nagging
difficult one I wasn't able to be calm back then. I couldn't not be the nagging miserable person I.became
There is a real fall out from alcoholism I really don't blame many families for giving up on their family members They are beyond their resources
-- Edited by Maresie on Friday 16th of February 2018 10:32:53 AM
I've been in a much better place today. Not getting on that rollercoaster with him.
Lil
Went to a meeting this week and listened to one share on emotional sobriety. I see today 'emotional sobriety is something i never had. I dont know whatever made me think i would have it could or heck even should when there was so much emotional abuse. No opinion on whether this is emotional abuse except to say all that guessing in the dark an digging for the hidden truth sent my emotions on a coaster ride. Suppose thats similar to what Jerry F is sharing up there. If i dont let it go it ends up dragging me. Problem for me was hearing someone tell me to just let it go felt crazy at times because i realise today its pretty hard to just Let go of an addiction regardless of what the addiction is. He was addicted to drugs i was very much addicted to him. Find today i cant let go of anything alone without meetings an even then its a process not an event. Hope you try some if you havent already. Face to face. Theres online meets too. Wishing you much serenity.
I have choices and so do the people in my life .. I know from my stand point I forget. So I make a choice expecting an ABC conversation because I have had that in my head ... and I wind up with a XAFG conversation that I am then shocked by and surprised the conversation didn't go as planned. LOL .. that's my twisted thinking. What do you mean someone else can make a choice outside of my expectation of what's going to happen. I have mellowed out a lot over the past year.
In dealing with the issue of a newly "sober" person the getting to the actual emotional sobriety takes years and I'm coming from my stand point .. I didn't drink to get there .. LOL. I think it's important to be aware that some recovering people get there and some don't .. that's a fact of maturity I am talking about too. I realized that in dealing with my XAH that if his emotional growth was stunted at the time he started drinking then where was I with codependency and where did I need to go with my own growth.
Is it abuse? I don't know .. however I am an adamant firm believer that abuse in all forms is NOT ok. So I qualify that statement by how I feel. Do I feel badly about myself after the conversation in terms of you're fat, you're ugly, no one will ever want you, you are lucky to have me around. Put downs covert or overt, I find are ways to control and manipulate .. the XAH in my life was a pro at those. Do I feel my safety is threatened? If that's a yes, .. plan A - Z so I know I have a way out and get in touch with the DV office in your area for moral support and counseling. What does safety mean to you is another one to ask yourself. Am I left feeling confused after I have spoken to my sig other and things are twisted up and there is a "fault" in the situation .. now .. sometimes that happens because no one likes to be "wrong" .. I tend to be a right fighter and want to justify my position. I now move conversations more towards what can be done to better the situation if it comes up again. I own MY part .. I don't own all of it unless I was totally on the left side of wrong .. and that for me is usually about my responses. I don't agree with "let it go" when it comes to abuse .. abuse is abuse plain and simple. I know that can be for an uncomfortable conversation with self. It is not ok. Now I can forgive my abuser for myself and not make the actions right or wrong .. I am not willing to "forget" they happened because I would not want to be in that position again
Alanon really is a great place to figure things out in terms of what does and doesn't work for you.
I hope you will keep coming back. While letting go or be dragged is a great slogan .. there are some things that are not to be ignored .. you will figure out what is and is not ok for you.
Hugs S :)
I find the "not getting on the rollercoaster" with the addict/alcoholic -- literally, figuratively, emotionally, and in any other way -- was the key to me "doing the right thing" so to speak. Doing what was best for me, healthy for me, right for me. Now, that wasn't punitive. I wasn't punishing the addict/alcoholic. I wasn't ignoring them, or abandoning them. I wasn't being cold or dismissive. I just wasn't -- being a partner in their drama, lifestyle, chaos, turmoil, and so on. Actually, I wasn't a partner in anything they were doing -- because they were still using! That was my boundary.
My experience was that the addict/alcoholic wanted me to give them something, do something with him, for them, help them, and so on. First, they were not clean and sober, so I would not. Second, it was most often something I was not comfortable doing or something that wouldn't be healthy for me. Sure, what usually resulted in me getting accused of abandoning them, not being there for them, not loving them, etc. Well, looking back at it -- sounds like a personal problem to me, LOL. Seriously, after I started getting better, I was OK with that. If the alcoholic/addict is mad at you, upset with you, not happy with you...then you are probably doing something right.
Lil, go to face to face meetings -- as many as you can. Start learning, listening, reading, and find a sponsor. One question you asked -- whether this was alcoholic behavior or emotional abuse? Or both or neither? One woman, at one of my first meetings answered me -- when I asked the same exact question -- it doesn't matter. What you should be asking yourself is "Is this unacceptable behavior" and "Am I accepting unacceptable behavior". Why? Because alanon is about us. It is about you.
Keep coming back.
-- Edited by Bo on Monday 19th of February 2018 11:44:04 AM
Hi Lil,
Thanks for sharing. Since you asked for feedback, my guess is it's a communications problem. His response to it is to hang up on you. I've hung up on people once in awhile. Fortunately, I haven't found the need to do this very often over a lifetime. I'm pointing the finger inward to answer your request for feedback because Alanon is always about me and not the other person. I've hung up on peoplle when I felt angered by what they said and didn't know how to respond, felt shamed by family member and suddenly vulnerable and was too prideful to say that what they said hurt me, when I felt indignant that someone pointed out a truth that I didn't want to acknowledge. Of course I have hung up when someone spoke abusively or screamed at me on the phone. I did that to honor myself as a person worthy of acceptable treatment.
I'm not an alcoholic but live with a sober one who has hung up on me. That hasn't happened for some years now but when it did, it was due to a breakdown in communication. I take some responsibility for this because I phoned at inappropriate times like while he was busy and concentrating on his job, driving home and in traffic etc. I had something on my mind and wanted to make sure he knew about it right then and there. This had nothing to do with taking my personal power back as a person in the Alanon program. It was selfish behavior on my part, a need for an instant response. It was disrespectful of him, his day and whatever he might be doing at that time.
Please don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that poor timing makes me culpable for the another person's poor response. I am saying however, that just maybe wanting an answer on demand contributed to the response I was given. For us, this was less than healthy communication and hanging up was what I sometimes got or gave him. Sometimes a call is necessary but trying to keep it simple and especially leaving any personal grievances out of the call has worked better for us. If I make a request, I have to be prepared to accept "no" and not engage in an argument. I certainly can get off the phone politely and call someone in the program (sponsor) and vent about it and get help reasoning it out.
"He said I had to decide what he was going to do." OK.. maybe he is being a little dramatic here??
From your post, I don't get the impression that he means this literally. Maybe it's a bit of sarcasm on his part? Does he feel heard? Anyway, loving support of the alcoholic for me anyway has always included talking things out when the dust settles and also showing appreciation for the things my partner does do. My expectations of other people get me in trouble. I have to keep my judgement out of it when asking for help. What might seem natural to me as far as taking responsibility, offering help and taking things at face value, may not be received that way by another person. So, I'm trying to keep Alanon in front of me these days when communicating my wants, needs and also not forgetting to offer help to others in a way that doesn't compromise my own dignity.
Saying thanks for helping today has also been helpful for opening communication to discuss things lovingly. (((hugs)) TT
Get to some face to face meetings and by all means keep coming here. And thank you for making me think a bit today. It was just what I needed.