I've been in the program for a little over a year, have 2 young kids, and am in the process of separating from my AH of 12 years. We have had zero physical or emotional intimacy for over a year, and I have a lot of pent up energy. Preparing for separation and divorce is liberating, and I thank the program for helping me get there.
But I am developing desires for a man that is unavailable (married) and in my community. I don't want this right now, and I'm not sure how to manage it. His wife is an alcoholic, so I get why there is an attraction, beyond the fact that I'm obviously looking to fill the void left by AH. I turn it over all the time. I talk to both my sponsors and Alanon friends about it, and I try to work a really strong and consistent program. But I just can't seem to shake this desire. I wonder if any of you have ESH to share about this topic.
Thank you!
Iamhere said
Feb 11, 2018
Welcome to MIP yolanda - so glad you found us and glad that you shared. I don't have experience in this area but did want to welcome you aboard. I am hopeful others will be along to share their ESH. Keep coming back - glad you are here!
yolanda said
Feb 11, 2018
Iamhere wrote:
Welcome to MIP yolanda - so glad you found us and glad that you shared. I don't have experience in this area but did want to welcome you aboard. I am hopeful others will be along to share their ESH. Keep coming back - glad you are here!
Thank you! Happy to be here!
Jerry F said
Feb 11, 2018
Working the steps on a particular addiction I think should work as it does on the addiction to mind and mood altering chemicals..."Should work"....hmmmm gotta practice that and see how it comes out. Keep on keeping on. ((((hugs))))
Tude said
Feb 12, 2018
Hi Yolanda! Glad you are here. What Jerry shared is spot on. We can become "addicted" to anything or anyone. Keep coming back!
tiredtonite said
Feb 12, 2018
Hi Yolanda, I'm sorry to hear you're going through a divorce. I've been there and also experienced all the emotional pain and fears that accompany that kind of life change. Today because of Alanon I know that my "attraction" to others was a distraction from a very uncomfortable reality. I really didn't need to worry about the availability the person to whom I was attracted because I wasn't available myself. I had a lot of emotional processing to do at the end of my marriage. But while I was divorcing I was very afraid of facing those feelings alone. It was easy to make up stories in my head about prospective partners and how wonderful they must be. Those fantasies took me away from the sadness of my current circumstances. I didn't have to stay present in an uncomfortable reality. I made up my own reality and create false hope based on F.E.A.R. F'g everything and running. I ran in my mind to fantasy comfort zone.
The most honorable actions at this time for me were staying even closer to my higher power, my sponsor and working the steps with honesty. You're not alone with these feelings of longing you have for a partner who can fill the void. Physical exercise helped and staying connected other women in the program for fellowship. I wish I'd had yoga in my life then because today it's a wonderful way for me to stay connected to my hp and release stressful feelings.
I guess what I would also offer is that getting involved with this man who has a wife who is alcoholic would keep you involved with an alcoholic just a different one.
Thank you for sharing so honestly about longing for emotional and physical intimacy. My experience was that when my marriage ended, I went through a grief process. I tried in many ways to avoid feeling my feelings and they came out sideways just the same. I can tell you, it wasn't pretty. But I got through and got to know who I was on my own. Reality hit that I was nowhere near ready to be involved in another relationship until I really understood what I did and didn't want. Loneliness during such a time can suck but sticking with "safe" people in the program and hp can really help. I learned I was worth the time it took to know myself without complications of a romantic relationship. I learned it by thinking I was ready and jumping in too quick only to find I was nowhere near ready. Wishing you the best with sorting out your feelings during your divorce. I hope you'll keep coming back for recovery with us and to share. (((hugs))) TT
MeTwo2 said
Feb 12, 2018
i don't have much esh on managing desires other than continuing to search myself with sponsor and turn in the direction of hp and recovery rather than in the direction of desire and more disease. Do know i can't change 'my' thinking with 'my' thinking. sometimes i get so frustrated because like the saying goes i give up what i want most (another healthy desire) for what i want now (the unhealthy desire). the desires were what 'led' me to insanity in the first place and i do know 'today where the less healthy desires lead. Seems the disease tries to restore me to insanity often which conflicts with recovery trying to restore me to sanity 'or' introduce me to it for the first real time. I will say i am grateful that in spite of it all, and in spite of my past, there did come the 'desire' to walk through the doors of alanon to work towards recovery (so i can become 'free from chaos confusion and more fear & pain) still working on it. Then there's also the reminder for me of the amends list in my mind aware that my unhealthy 'desires and actions harm myself and then others in that order. Sometimes my own personal unhealthy desire is to make excuses for (or use the alcoholic as an excuse) to justify my own harmful behaviors that are less than 'desirable for me or anyone. So then there's that drawn out process to clean up. for sure one day at a time. Relate to the insanity of insane (alcoholic) desires. guess the only thing i can really do is ask myself if i know where it leads, do i want to go back or do i want to move forward. i think what i am seeing is do i want to attach to freedom or continue to attach to others who aren't free. never advice in alanon .. just a good thread that's got me thinking too now (rather than obsessing) thanks for sharing this
-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Monday 12th of February 2018 11:10:34 AM
SerenityRUS said
Feb 12, 2018
I sooo understand where you are at .. I think the appealing thing about someone who is unavailable is the fact that there doesn't need to be any strings attached and it is a feel good and feels safe in the moment. Part of my issue was the fact of I wanted to feel desired .. I think that's really hard when living with someone who used me as an object not a person yet was also finding his outlet in other women.
What helped me was I had a moment .. LOL .. he was not married and it was fully understood by both of us that he this was NOT going anywhere else. He gave me back something I couldn't find and that was a part of me that had been buried and forgotten .. I was 3 years without any kind of physical intimacy. Thankfully this was a gift for me.
I don't recommend being as reckless as I was however I'm not sorry I was and it brought forth in me a whole lot more confidence and my memory as to who I was and who I am becoming.
Anyway, program work helps however I was at a point that this was not normal and I had a fear of getting back on the proverbial horse so to speak.
The other thing I had to address is why I was attracting emotionally unavailable men and I came to realize I was not exactly emotionally available either so that's a part that I focused on for a bit.
I am currently in a monogamous relationship and it took a min to get there .. I mean I hadn't dated or anything for close to 5 years. So it was time for me to allow myself to have some fun and relax. I did not run around sleeping with everyone my one/two night deal was just that .. one/two night deal. I still smile when I think of him and wish we had both been in a different place however it was what was right for me at that time.
Hugs S :)
Jayla said
Feb 13, 2018
(((Hugs))) the only ESH I can humbly offer is that I have been on both ends of the affair thing in different relationships, and it is not an experience I'd wish on anyone (unless I absolutely hated them I guess). Affairs are explosive with chaos and destruction and it affects many more people than you might think at first. I feel the worst for my children as my ex-alcoholic husband's lying and cheating has now robbed my children of the chance to grow up with both their parents in a two-income family. It hurts when my babies tell me they want Papa to come back and I know he can't. * The woman he cheated with KNEW he was married with children, even met us all and still chose to do it anyway. So even though I know I need to let go of it, I am VERY ANGRY at her too. Now I am stable enough to not act on that anger but I have known other women who go and beat the snot out of the woman who slept with their husband. It can be dangerous to be the "other woman". * I don't know if this man has children or not but if he does, you would have to consider if you want to be half responsible for breaking up his family. Now if it happens anyway in the natural course of things because she is an alcoholic, well that wouldn't be on you. If he doesn't have children, an affair still sends shock waves through everyone's families and the lives of the people involved. It's good that you are looking before leaping so to speak. Best of luck.
WestMan said
Feb 14, 2018
My situation isn't totally like yours. I'm a man for one thing. But, I have some similarities and am currently in a relationship that started a few months back not long after a bad alcohol fueled meltdown by my ExAW which resulted in police, 5150 holds, me gaining custody of children and house. I was not looking to get into a relationship. I was a trainwreck and am still a hot mess in many ways. My marriage had been pretty lonely for a long time but the last couple had been near indescribable. I considered having an affair just to maintain my sanity but never did. With this new relationship in a nutshell I would say it is great with lots of problems and baggage. Here are a few insights I've gleaned.
- Like you I had an increasing desire prior to anything actually happening. I also was trying to keep my eyes open and mind clear about it because I know I'm not in a good place. However, even with talking it over with my sponsor and therapist I couldn't see where there would be any major problems. This was a warning sign that I was glad I paid attention to and have kept in mind throughout the relationship. There will absolutely be problems, some you may be able to guess at beforehand and be prepared for, others you won't see coming.
- I'm only separated not divorced. Unfortunately the way my situation is playing out it will likely be a longer divorce than normal. I feel I've gone above and beyond to keep my promise to be faithful. I have zero guilt or regret from this standpoint. I stand by my decision and wouldn't change my mind.
- I still have to hide this relationship. This is probably my hugest problem right now. The person I'm with deserves to be treated as a full partner. With love and respect. To be introduced to family and friends. This bothers me while they don't seem to have much problem with it. I just feel like hiding your relationship with someone is very disrespectful to them.
- The woman I'm with has done a lot to make her life better, to make herself better. She doesn't have a program but it almost seems like she does sometimes. Her being as healthy as she is and me having my program to help me is probably saving us from making a lot of stupid mistakes.
- I fell in love. Hard. I did not see it coming and now I can't really do anything with it. I'm not telling her as it feels like this situation I'm in would just ruin the sentiment. So I'm just leaving it alone as best I can right now. I don't trust the feeling. I try to enjoy but I don't trust it. It's really frustrating and confusing sometimes. But this can happen to you or the other man. If it does will you be able to maintain the "casual" nature of whatever arrangement you have? Will he? You may be faced with two painful choices, break it off completely or go all in and blow up a few people's worlds.
- We've been friends for a long time. She's someone I respect and value a lot as a friend and still would even if we weren't in this new relationship. I was afraid of ruining the friendship before we got in deeper. I still am. We are also better friends than we have ever been in the past. My hope is that if it doesn't last we will still keep the friendship.
- I'm also in a small town, we have mutual friends. We've been at the same gatherings and she can play it so cool that I started having a ton of crazy emotions come up. Super uncomfortable.
- It feels really nice to be able to care about someone and have them care about you without the crap that comes up with alcohol and drugs. No sudden rule changes, no withholding affection or even common courtesy. There's been a lot more of what you see is what you get. No games. At least this has been true for me.
- We've tried to be honest and open with each other and ourselves. Don't always do it right but we try.
- As my chaotic situation took on more and more stress I found she was a sympathetic ear. At the same time I was making it to less and less meetings. I stopped calling my sponsor for a couple weeks. I didn't realize until she said something to me but I had unwittingly went from having a good friend I could tell some things to, to basically using her in place of my sponsor, group and therapist.
Anyway, I hope there was something for you in these ramblings. I put the focus on me before I made the decision and made the choice to take it slow, not to force any expectations on her. She's doing the same and this also helps.
Iamhere said
Feb 14, 2018
Great share of ESH Westman! Love the honesty, willingness and openness. I wish you (and she) wellness and tons of joy!
Maresie said
Feb 14, 2018
I think for me the desire to get intimately with others was a way to deal with pain.
Having desire is one thing you do not need to beat yourself up with
I don't act impulsively anymore I dontvquit jobs act out in ways I used to. I harmed myself tremendously that way Do I crave to do that sometimes Absolutely
Hi all,
I've been in the program for a little over a year, have 2 young kids, and am in the process of separating from my AH of 12 years. We have had zero physical or emotional intimacy for over a year, and I have a lot of pent up energy. Preparing for separation and divorce is liberating, and I thank the program for helping me get there.
But I am developing desires for a man that is unavailable (married) and in my community. I don't want this right now, and I'm not sure how to manage it. His wife is an alcoholic, so I get why there is an attraction, beyond the fact that I'm obviously looking to fill the void left by AH. I turn it over all the time. I talk to both my sponsors and Alanon friends about it, and I try to work a really strong and consistent program. But I just can't seem to shake this desire. I wonder if any of you have ESH to share about this topic.
Thank you!
Thank you! Happy to be here!
Working the steps on a particular addiction I think should work as it does on the addiction to mind and mood altering chemicals..."Should work"....hmmmm gotta practice that and see how it comes out. Keep on keeping on. ((((hugs))))
Hi Yolanda, I'm sorry to hear you're going through a divorce. I've been there and also experienced all the emotional pain and fears that accompany that kind of life change. Today because of Alanon I know that my "attraction" to others was a distraction from a very uncomfortable reality. I really didn't need to worry about the availability the person to whom I was attracted because I wasn't available myself. I had a lot of emotional processing to do at the end of my marriage. But while I was divorcing I was very afraid of facing those feelings alone. It was easy to make up stories in my head about prospective partners and how wonderful they must be. Those fantasies took me away from the sadness of my current circumstances. I didn't have to stay present in an uncomfortable reality. I made up my own reality and create false hope based on F.E.A.R. F'g everything and running. I ran in my mind to fantasy comfort zone.
The most honorable actions at this time for me were staying even closer to my higher power, my sponsor and working the steps with honesty. You're not alone with these feelings of longing you have for a partner who can fill the void. Physical exercise helped and staying connected other women in the program for fellowship. I wish I'd had yoga in my life then because today it's a wonderful way for me to stay connected to my hp and release stressful feelings.
I guess what I would also offer is that getting involved with this man who has a wife who is alcoholic would keep you involved with an alcoholic just a different one.
Thank you for sharing so honestly about longing for emotional and physical intimacy. My experience was that when my marriage ended, I went through a grief process. I tried in many ways to avoid feeling my feelings and they came out sideways just the same. I can tell you, it wasn't pretty. But I got through and got to know who I was on my own. Reality hit that I was nowhere near ready to be involved in another relationship until I really understood what I did and didn't want. Loneliness during such a time can suck but sticking with "safe" people in the program and hp can really help. I learned I was worth the time it took to know myself without complications of a romantic relationship. I learned it by thinking I was ready and jumping in too quick only to find I was nowhere near ready. Wishing you the best with sorting out your feelings during your divorce. I hope you'll keep coming back for recovery with us and to share. (((hugs))) TT
i don't have much esh on managing desires other than continuing to search myself with sponsor and turn in the direction of hp and recovery rather than in the direction of desire and more disease. Do know i can't change 'my' thinking with 'my' thinking. sometimes i get so frustrated because like the saying goes i give up what i want most (another healthy desire) for what i want now (the unhealthy desire). the desires were what 'led' me to insanity in the first place and i do know 'today where the less healthy desires lead. Seems the disease tries to restore me to insanity often which conflicts with recovery trying to restore me to sanity 'or' introduce me to it for the first real time. I will say i am grateful that in spite of it all, and in spite of my past, there did come the 'desire' to walk through the doors of alanon to work towards recovery (so i can become 'free from chaos confusion and more fear & pain) still working on it. Then there's also the reminder for me of the amends list in my mind aware that my unhealthy 'desires and actions harm myself and then others in that order. Sometimes my own personal unhealthy desire is to make excuses for (or use the alcoholic as an excuse) to justify my own harmful behaviors that are less than 'desirable for me or anyone. So then there's that drawn out process to clean up. for sure one day at a time. Relate to the insanity of insane (alcoholic) desires. guess the only thing i can really do is ask myself if i know where it leads, do i want to go back or do i want to move forward. i think what i am seeing is do i want to attach to freedom or continue to attach to others who aren't free. never advice in alanon .. just a good thread that's got me thinking too now (rather than obsessing) thanks for sharing this
-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Monday 12th of February 2018 11:10:34 AM
What helped me was I had a moment .. LOL .. he was not married and it was fully understood by both of us that he this was NOT going anywhere else. He gave me back something I couldn't find and that was a part of me that had been buried and forgotten .. I was 3 years without any kind of physical intimacy. Thankfully this was a gift for me.
I don't recommend being as reckless as I was however I'm not sorry I was and it brought forth in me a whole lot more confidence and my memory as to who I was and who I am becoming.
Anyway, program work helps however I was at a point that this was not normal and I had a fear of getting back on the proverbial horse so to speak.
The other thing I had to address is why I was attracting emotionally unavailable men and I came to realize I was not exactly emotionally available either so that's a part that I focused on for a bit.
I am currently in a monogamous relationship and it took a min to get there .. I mean I hadn't dated or anything for close to 5 years. So it was time for me to allow myself to have some fun and relax. I did not run around sleeping with everyone my one/two night deal was just that .. one/two night deal. I still smile when I think of him and wish we had both been in a different place however it was what was right for me at that time.
Hugs S :)
My situation isn't totally like yours. I'm a man for one thing. But, I have some similarities and am currently in a relationship that started a few months back not long after a bad alcohol fueled meltdown by my ExAW which resulted in police, 5150 holds, me gaining custody of children and house. I was not looking to get into a relationship. I was a trainwreck and am still a hot mess in many ways. My marriage had been pretty lonely for a long time but the last couple had been near indescribable. I considered having an affair just to maintain my sanity but never did. With this new relationship in a nutshell I would say it is great with lots of problems and baggage. Here are a few insights I've gleaned.
- Like you I had an increasing desire prior to anything actually happening. I also was trying to keep my eyes open and mind clear about it because I know I'm not in a good place. However, even with talking it over with my sponsor and therapist I couldn't see where there would be any major problems. This was a warning sign that I was glad I paid attention to and have kept in mind throughout the relationship. There will absolutely be problems, some you may be able to guess at beforehand and be prepared for, others you won't see coming.
- I'm only separated not divorced. Unfortunately the way my situation is playing out it will likely be a longer divorce than normal. I feel I've gone above and beyond to keep my promise to be faithful. I have zero guilt or regret from this standpoint. I stand by my decision and wouldn't change my mind.
- I still have to hide this relationship. This is probably my hugest problem right now. The person I'm with deserves to be treated as a full partner. With love and respect. To be introduced to family and friends. This bothers me while they don't seem to have much problem with it. I just feel like hiding your relationship with someone is very disrespectful to them.
- The woman I'm with has done a lot to make her life better, to make herself better. She doesn't have a program but it almost seems like she does sometimes. Her being as healthy as she is and me having my program to help me is probably saving us from making a lot of stupid mistakes.
- I fell in love. Hard. I did not see it coming and now I can't really do anything with it. I'm not telling her as it feels like this situation I'm in would just ruin the sentiment. So I'm just leaving it alone as best I can right now. I don't trust the feeling. I try to enjoy but I don't trust it. It's really frustrating and confusing sometimes. But this can happen to you or the other man. If it does will you be able to maintain the "casual" nature of whatever arrangement you have? Will he? You may be faced with two painful choices, break it off completely or go all in and blow up a few people's worlds.
- We've been friends for a long time. She's someone I respect and value a lot as a friend and still would even if we weren't in this new relationship. I was afraid of ruining the friendship before we got in deeper. I still am. We are also better friends than we have ever been in the past. My hope is that if it doesn't last we will still keep the friendship.
- I'm also in a small town, we have mutual friends. We've been at the same gatherings and she can play it so cool that I started having a ton of crazy emotions come up. Super uncomfortable.
- It feels really nice to be able to care about someone and have them care about you without the crap that comes up with alcohol and drugs. No sudden rule changes, no withholding affection or even common courtesy. There's been a lot more of what you see is what you get. No games. At least this has been true for me.
- We've tried to be honest and open with each other and ourselves. Don't always do it right but we try.
- As my chaotic situation took on more and more stress I found she was a sympathetic ear. At the same time I was making it to less and less meetings. I stopped calling my sponsor for a couple weeks. I didn't realize until she said something to me but I had unwittingly went from having a good friend I could tell some things to, to basically using her in place of my sponsor, group and therapist.
Anyway, I hope there was something for you in these ramblings. I put the focus on me before I made the decision and made the choice to take it slow, not to force any expectations on her. She's doing the same and this also helps.
I think for me the desire to get intimately with others was a way to deal with pain.
Having desire is one thing you do not need to beat yourself up with
I don't act impulsively anymore I dontvquit jobs act out in ways I used to. I harmed myself tremendously that way Do I crave to do that sometimes Absolutely