I am in a recovery, and am approaching the 4 month mark in AA. The last 4 months have been the most amazing I can remember, since my university days when alcohol was actually fun and not a problem.
I hit rock bottom when my wife informed me that she had had enough, and intended to separate from me permanently. We had separated before, and I had promised I would address my drinking problem, but I attempted to do so under my own power and it ended as predicted.
We went for a few months, and I drank moderately but regularly. The beginning of the end was a vacation we took with my brother, where him and I went on a 2 night bender that broke all illusions that I had anything under control. The results of that bender through me in to a depression, and I began drinking more after we got back, and withdrew myself from the family. That lasted about a month until she declared her intentions to end the marriage.
That event finally humbled me, and I shed my pride and began attending AA and meditation classes. These, along with therapy and a whole lot of soul searching, have turned me right around.
The results were impressive to her, and almost enough to turn things around. She even told me at one point that she thought things might work out between us.
What happened one night about 3 weeks ago, is that I tried to kiss her after a night of fun and emotional intimacy we were growing that we never had before. She got this look of horror over her face and told me:
"I don't know if I can ever be physically intimate with you again, I feel like it is ruined for me because you were never emotionally present."
Since then she has maintained the same line: "You have changed, and tick all the boxes, it is too bad that I think I may never get over this feeling of being used by you for physical intimacy."
Have any other women in this forum ever felt similar feelings? Is this going to be too great for us to overcome? Is there any literature I can read about healing this kind of situation? I am at the point where I feel like I am giving up hope, and am ready to move on. I feel like a new man, and with a few more months of recovery will be able to finally give her the marriage she deserves.
Thanks in advance for all thoughts and advice, even if it is what I may not want to hear.
Regardless, though, the price that was paid was worth where I have ended up: sober, mindful, and full of hope for my future.
M180
el-cee said
Jan 17, 2018
I felt used during sex like it was just another hit or buzz for him. I never felt there was intimacy and closeness while he was drinking. I was also pretty effected by alcoholism that I felt resentment and self.pity a lot of the time. I ended marriage too but he wasn't sober and in aa but I was In recovery in alanon. I'm sorry ypur wife feels like she does. Alcoholism is a family disease. She will have many of the thought disorders you have and it's unlikely her thinking will improve without her own recovery. You could suggest alanon but you have no power over that. Your responsibility is to your recovery and improving your life and that's not dependant on whether she leaves or stays it's dependent o how much you want to change and change things for yourself. As I built up a relationship with my higher power I realised I don't need other people for my happiness or serenity. I can accept that I will be ok no matter what as long as I've got this program I have tools to deal with practically anything one day at a time. Good luck and thanks for sharing here.
180 Man said
Jan 17, 2018
Thanks El-cee. She has agreed to go to a two day program for spouses of alcoholics, which I know is connected to Al-Anon. She has also been asking me if there is a step group around workaholism (we found one online but nothing locally). She won't do it for me, but perhaps she might be willing to consider Al-Anon for herself.
Thanks again, and any other insights or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
hotrod said
Jan 17, 2018
Hi M180 Like LC I too felt as your wife however attending alanon meetings, working with a sponsor using the Steps, he and I developed a deeper intimacy than we had ever experienced . It is a process and we had to remember that it took us a long time to disconnect so that it would take time to reconnect and it did!! There is hope I would suggest that your partner search out alanon face to face meetings and attend because living with the disease we too develop many negative coping tools that need to be addressed so we can have a joyful life. This is one reason alanon was founded. There is hope
Congrts to you for your continued sobriety
180 Man said
Jan 17, 2018
Hi Betty,
Thanks so much for weighing in, it sounds like I need to do what I can to try to convince her that Al-Anon would be a benefit for her. I need to do this unselfishly, not out of hope for our marriage, but because it sounds like it could be the right thing for her to begin her healing process. It really can feel tragic that the awakened heart that sobriety brings also brings with it such awareness of the pain inflicted. I am trying to take responsibility for this pain, while at the same time having compassion for the man I was, and work to never becoming that man again.
Thanks again Betty.
Iamhere said
Jan 17, 2018
Welcome M180 - congratulations to you on seeking recovery and getting sober. One of my biggest 'cycling emotions' from this disease is the feeling of being used and at times set aside for something better - almost discarded. I will say that Al-Anon did give me tons of relief as I learned how the disease in others affected me, my thoughts, feelings, emotions and actions.
To me, it sounds hopeful that she's willing to try the 2-day event. Miracles happen in recovery all the time - both AA and Al-Anon. Keep working your program, one day at a time and love her enough to give her space to process, deal and heal.
We would all 'love' a crystal ball that can tell us what to do today to have a better tomorrow. However, when we project in that way, it robs us of the gifts of today. Celebrate you and keep an open mind - we never know the power of a HP!
I am a double winner (AA and Al-Anon), and met and married my husband in AA. We will be married 27 years in April. He relapsed almost 24 years ago, and never returned to AA. I could tell you all the pain, trauma, heart-ache and more but I prefer to focus on the miracles and what's good in life. I've been able to stay in the marriage and we've been able to figure things out in spite of the disease. It's far, far from perfect, but what is?
This was my second marriage and will be my last. When things got hard in my first marriage, I left and felt justified in doing so. As I worked on recovery, and used the steps on both sides of this program, I did learn that my expectations of self and others were far from realistic. So - today, I am grateful for the miracle of recovery, my marriage, and most of all, my serenity.
Keep doing you - as we say on both sides of the house - more will be revealed!
bud said
Jan 17, 2018
Welcome 180 Man and I'm glad you're here. Like other posters, I once felt similarly to your wife. I loved my husband dearly but was so frazzled that I couldn't think clearly and him wanting intimacy seemed inappropriate at the time because his actions were causing so much hurt. I just wanted the pain to stop and I kept feeling the pain even when he was doing his best. I was fearful and looking for consistency over time.
It was later that I found Alanon and started working the steps with a sponsor and felt relief.
Everyone is different and every situation is different; what I thought I needed to hear from him is that he loved me and to be patient to work things out.What I heard him say was that he couldn't have a relationship with anyone. In hindsight, he may have heard that early in his recovery and repeated (or I heard) it out of context...
I echo other posts, that it would be helpful for your wife to attend Alanon face to face meetings, get a sponsor for support and start working the steps and healing.
There is hope and I pray that your HP will guide you for best outcomes.
In support.
SerenityRUS said
Jan 17, 2018
Hi 180man and welcome .. I'm going to echo what others have stated .. my xah and I were coming from two different places .. his was finding whatever feel good he could gather and mine was trying to recover from the insanity of the pain I felt from being used and abused. Much my ex participated in and some was my own spinning of my part in our dysfunctional dance. I think it's great you are owning your part that being said I think it's interesting .. my ex is not recovering however believes or my perception of his behavior is if he flips a switch I'm required to go along with his thought process and that's totally not my perception of the story he wishes to portray. Alanon would be wonderful for your spouse . I will point out this isn't about you or your time line of what you think she should do or how you think she should feel about your relationship/ intimacy or whatever. You do your healing program work .. let her see the actions and not words .. most of us have heard many times over this time is different to find out that wasn't the case. Ironically that's not the addicts issue that was my part of wanting to believe the words and not the actions of my ex. 4 months is a wonderful start and thank God this is a one day at a time program because all I have to concern myself with is today. Where am I at today. Those today's multiply into many days. Days into weeks .. months and so on without having to look at the length of time. Seriously is there even a question as to why there is pushback from your spouse? I didn't trust myself forget about thinking about trusting my ex .. btw .. I don't trust him now because I know based upon experience with him nothing has changed .. I get the same behavior and outcome. I do trust my higher power and I trust my instincts .. that's what alanon gave me back and the ability to heal from a past bigger than my ex. I would encourage you to be patient ... understanding .. supportive and allow her the grave, as well as dignity to process through her stuff. Hopefully she will enjoy the alanon aspect of things and find much needed healing as well as self discovery. Alcoholism is tough business on all sides. 4 months of good behavior doesn't undo years of hurt. That takes time and consistency. It's a start and an excellent one at that so many kudos. I really hope your spouse will find healing through the program. Life is good on the other side. :) s
Twinkies said
Jan 18, 2018
Hi 180 man - welcome! Alanon would surely be helpful for your wife as a means of recovery. Encourage her to find a group that can help her process and heal - for herself. As far as your relationship goes, my own personal opinion is that rebuilding of trust and intimacy takes time and can be painful and difficult. Both of you must be open to it and baby steps are best. For her, vulnerability is probably going to be a big hurdle to overcome and thereâs nothing you can do that can force her over that wall, nor should you try. Continuing to improve your own life and finding stability in your own recovery will be the most important step you can take. It may help lead to reconciliation but thereâs no guarantee and regardless, it must be for YOU, not for the relationship. It sounds as though sheâs willing to at least take a few tentative steps forward through the retreat you mentioned so thatâs a good sign that sheâs still invested at least somewhat. Let her have some time and space. Let her know that you still care, but donât push her for intimacy or vulnerability. Show her that you can be the stable, loving, and focused partner she needs by working your own program and devoting yourself to creating a healthy, happy life. There are no guarantees but with time, patience, and both of you staying on the road to recovery, she may eventually learn how to trust again.
Mattie said
Jan 18, 2018
Congratulations on your recovery and hang in there.
I think the thing about drinking, like all addictions, is that it exacts a price. It is kind of like going on a spending spree and racking up a big debt. Afterwards we may say, "But I've stopped spending! I shouldn't have to pay that debt!" - but the thing is that there is a price no matter what. Losing the trust of your wife and causing her prolonged pain is part of the price. You may say, "But I wasn't looking at the price tag when I did it!" But nevertheless there was a price tag. Drinking is one long way of trying to avoid paying the piper. Stopping drinking is acknowledging that there is a price and that it has come due.
The way I see it, there are two things to keep in mind now. One is that this is early days. You have been sober for nearly four months. The first year (sometimes two years, sometimes more) of sobriety can be rough for both the drinker and those around them. There are lots of changes, there is a different focus, there's moodiness and a lot of emotions that have to be dealt with. Trying to get everything back to "normal" (or a new normal) four months in is hurrying the process. I know it would feel good to have everything squared away. But the process doesn't work that quickly. Her emotions are not going to be settled any more than yours are. Plus she may have read something about the statistics of people who relapse in that first year. She would be being only prudent to wait and see how things unfold, rather than jumping into an arrangement that might not work out. I know it is difficult not to know how things are going to work with her. I can see your impatience in saying that you're ready to give up hope, and "am ready to move on." One thing to keep in mind is how long she waited for you to get sober and therefore really be available to be in the relationship. Did she wait longer than four months for you to get sober?
Another thing is that she knows that you have an impulsive "Now I've got it solved!" aspect - as when you had decided you could handle it on your own. So she knows that your confidence levels are not necessarily a true indication of how well it's going to go. In Al-Anon we advise people that when there's doubt, they should wait, because "More will be revealed." If she is waiting, that's only an indication of healthy emotional caution on her part. The fact that she has to use emotional caution - that's where the price tag of alcoholism comes in
One thing that bothered me about my Alcoholic (who relapsed continually, and who did not stay sober) is that every time he'd go into recovery, he'd say, "There! I did it! Now back to normal!" And he'd expect me to act as if nothing had happened. That was how he was when he was drinking, too. He tried to enforce the idea that his drinking was never any big deal. That my reacting to it was my own weirdness. That there was nothing disturbing about the blackouts, benders, lying, unavailability, overspending, health problems, and many other features of his drunkenness. His way of trying to make it "No big deal" was to act as if any response I had was just bizarre peevishness on my part.
So if I had to advise my A (now my ex-A, but still drinking) about this, I would say this: "Take it seriously. Acknowledge that it was serious. Acknowledge that it was very painful. Acknowledge that things were out of control. Acknowledge that many relationships never come back from this. Acknowledge that I put up with things no one should have to put up with. Acknowledge that this is not a problem that is easily solved. Live with the discomfort. Don't try to erase it. Don't cast me as the unreasonable one for feeling this way. If you want to try a relationship together again, sit with the discomfort that the situation calls for. Don't try to hurry me up. What you might endure waiting for me is probably very little compared to what I endured waiting for you. That's where the situation is. If you want to try again, don't erase the past. If you don't want to try again, well and good, that's a fair choice. I'm in doubt too. Don't hurry me up to try to pretend things are 'right' as you have been doing all this time."
You can pay the price for the drinking by waiting her out and giving her time, or you can pay the price by losing the relationship. Those are the choices.
You will show her that things have truly changed by not trying to change her mind about her feelings about her drinking. Let her see the results of your recovery as they unfold over time, and as they show in your patience with her responses to what has happened. Then you can both decide how things will look going forward. In as much as you demand a quick solution, those are the old alcoholic mind-patterns hanging on. That's my experience of it.
180 Man said
Jan 18, 2018
Thanks everyone for your caring replies.
Your collective advice confirms my belief that I need to let her go, and give her the space she needs to heal and make the decisions best for her. I'll have to think about the hope that might be there, it is good to know there is hope, but I can't let it cloud my judgement for what is best for me, or try to control the situation with her.
If I focus on my own healing, no matter what the outcome of our marriage, I will be in a better place. I need to stay focused on that.
My wife is a psychology university professor, and very proud. Like me prior to my rock bottom, she doesn't think a group like Al-Anon would help her. I am hoping the 2 day program may help her see differently. Is there any other literature out there I should gently point her to that might help her make an informed decision?
Thanks again everyone, I am glad to have found such a caring and experienced group.
M180
180 Man said
Jan 18, 2018
Mattie wrote:
So if I had to advise my A (now my ex-A, but still drinking) about this, I would say this: "Take it seriously. Acknowledge that it was serious. Acknowledge that it was very painful. Acknowledge that things were out of control. Acknowledge that many relationships never come back from this. Acknowledge that I put up with things no one should have to put up with. Acknowledge that this is not a problem that is easily solved. Live with the discomfort. Don't try to erase it. Don't cast me as the unreasonable one for feeling this way. If you want to try a relationship together again, sit with the discomfort that the situation calls for. Don't try to hurry me up. What you might endure waiting for me is probably very little compared to what I endured waiting for you. That's where the situation is. If you want to try again, don't erase the past. If you don't want to try again, well and good, that's a fair choice. I'm in doubt too. Don't hurry me up to try to pretend things are 'right' as you have been doing all this time."
This is very meaningful to me, and helps a lot.
Thank you.
hotrod said
Jan 18, 2018
Hi once again To answer your question regarding the literature the answer is "Yes' There is a great deal of alanon approved literature that can be found at alanon meetings or at alanon inter- group office.
We have several daily readers as well as newcomer booklets such as "Alcoholism the Family Disease, "When I got Busy I got Better" . "Paths to Recovery' and my favorite the bookmark," Just for Today"
SerenityRUS said
Jan 18, 2018
My fav book to date as well as what Betty has mentioned is Getting them Sober, Toby Rice Drew, Vol 2. I believe that's the one for people who have loved ones in recovery. It is a no nonsense view of recovery as well as alanon I prefer that approach in regards to understanding.
Hugs S :)
PosiesandPuppies said
Jan 18, 2018
I just wanted to second what Mattie posted. Her words were wise and profound...one of the best "replies from the spouse's side" I have seen.
After my H's first recovery, he felt so good (rightly so) that he wanted to act like all the years of chaos didn't exist. That meant all the years of what I call now, meaningless "addict sex" wasn't a thing... that my feelings of being used and then discarded weren't valid. All those years trying to be "the best sex partner" but still not getting that emotional connection from him wasn't my reality. I had to heal...a lot!
As it turns out, I did not take enough time. Because this time around, I have said, "NO WAY!" I don't want to make it a third try.
So the acknowledgement Mattie speaks of is very important. Then let her know you will wait. Then walk the walk... actions speak louder than words in this world!
jtpickle said
Jan 18, 2018
Hi 180Man - I have been thinking about your post and how to respond/share. Fortunately, everyone has done a fantastic job sharing that I really don't have anything to add. I currently feel the same way about my marriage as far as intimacy is concerned and my AH is not in recovery; he's very active with his alcoholism. I find it very difficult to be affectionate with my AH so any kind of intimacy is out of the question. I have completely emotionally detached and even somewhat physically detached as I won't share our bed with him anymore. I need sleep and I find the snoring and sleep apnea breathing to be very disruptive to me during the night.
I will say that AlAnon has helped me immensely but I don't know if it will save my marriage. I'm learning to take care of me.
Thank you everyone for your ESH - I have also learned from your replies!
Tude said
Jan 18, 2018
Hi 180, I too agree with what Mattie shared, and all the other great shares. This is a time thing. Time to work on you and yes, in hopes of time to work on your wife. Miracles do still happen as Betty shared! It takes time to heal from the words an alcoholic inflicts, it also takes time for you to heal from the words a non alcoholic inflicts. Both under delusions while this all took place. One day at a time. The time does add up and many changes can take place.......mostly in ourselves
Hugs!
2HP said
Jan 18, 2018
I relate to so many shares...
and recall the suggestion often given in early 12-step recovery, don't make any major decisions for a year (I believe.) I myself was in recovery for 18 months before I made a decision on the relationship. the most important relationship in recovery, is recovering that relationship to the Higher Power... that is the "real" relationship that had been lost in my disease. worrying too much about recovering other stuff before I establish my relationship to HP is putting the cart ahead of the horse, as it was explained to me. everything just falls into place as it should when I put "first things first"
I once heard that when a person makes a behavior change, it takes about two years for others to even notice!!! others continue to see us as we were for a very long time. your new life may not yet register in your wife's brain yet... too much history...
But from where I sit, I still see hope in your first post. she has a lot to forgive and this takes time, we humans are not equipped with automatic acceptance buttons, lol
"Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished."
(((hugs)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 18th of January 2018 12:38:53 PM
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 18th of January 2018 12:55:01 PM
Jazzie18 said
Jan 18, 2018
Trust gets lost in alcoholism. I know that for me it took a long time to regain trust and get our marriage back on track. Since you are relatively new to sobriety and your wife is new to seeing the new you I wouldn't give up hope yet. When my AH got sober I thought everything would be fixed but I was surprised to see how resentful and fearful (of a relapse) I had become. Please give your wife and you some time to digest and live this new life. With a lot of soul searching and praying to my HP my husband and i got through it and are in a much better space.
Congratulations on your sobriety! Sending prayers and positive thoughts your way.
180 Man said
Jan 18, 2018
You are all amazing - at this point I am not going to hope for anything but that my wife finds and chooses a group as open, vulnerable, caring, and insightful as you all have been.
That being said, I'm going to hold out hope deep in my heart, but my focus will be on myself and my recovery, and not let my hope for my marriage cause me to pressure my wife in any way.
2HP- I am just starting to realize that my journey is more spiritual in nature than anything else - thanks for sharing.
A bit of news from my end today - after trying out several groups over the past few months, I finally have a sponsor and Home Group!
One final question: is there a name for the condition where my wife can no longer be physically intimate? I would like to do as much reading on it as I can, as well as look up the literature you have recommended above.
Thanks again for all of your support!
M180
Iamhere said
Jan 18, 2018
Congrats. on finding a home group and a sponsor!! That's an awesome step for your recovery. I don't know of any name for that type of condition. There are a couple of folks here who have more education about the disease and mental health - hopefully they'll be able to help you out.
Keep doing you, one day at a time!
Jerry F said
Jan 18, 2018
180 Man the loss of intimacy within the disease of alcoholism is usual and the result of mental and emotional conditioning or re-conditioning it doesn't only happen because of our disease. I would investigate it widely and see what you arrive at in solutions. One of the reasons for me that the loss of intimacy came up was the fear of STDs as my alcoholic/addict spouse resorted to infidelity when she was out there. Alcohol is also a chemical depressant for both the drinker and partner.
Our disease confuses even the best therapist and counselors. This is my back ground and one of the very best descriptions of the program when I arrived held my attention then and now. Our recovery is called Social model therapy meaning the negatively affected help the negatively affect recover sharing their experiences, strengths and hopes.
If you keep and open mind you will find help and quite often this help will come from your sponsor and others in the program who have come thru more dire straits then you. Keep coming back cause this works when you work it. ((((hugs))))
Freetime said
Jan 19, 2018
Welcome, 180 Man -- Thinking about your question on physical intimacy, and how your first post mentioned the "look of horror" on your wife's face -- and thinking about my own feelings at a similar time, what comes to mind is PTSD. That was how I felt... like I'd been through a traumatic battle. I am not a professional in that field, just expressing my experience.
I am impressed with your intention to not pressure your wife and to focus on your own recovery. That is what we learn in Al-Anon... not to force solutions. But we also learn that miracles can happen.
DavidG said
Jan 19, 2018
Hi 180 and Y'all,
was not going to weigh in here. Mostly, I think, because I did not want to go outside of the Alanon philosophy.
However this is a special group here. I think members have options elsewhere... other groups, and also seeking professional help.
But for me- this group- right here- has the flavour and strength of a big city group. For someone living in a country town, east of
Australia- it is a mine of gems.
I am proud and impressed with the support emerging here 180... proud to be a member of the group. Lots of times I cringe a bit
over the 'higher power' aspects of recovery- same for all groups-. Something the highly educated might find really off-putting. And
many others too. But if we are troubled and desperate enough we will find our way around all of these obstacles.
I am in favour of holding relationships together- if possible. I apply the serenity prayer here.
Our diversions and addictions hold us back from emotional growth. How do we crank up this growth? Emotional is invisible.
Today is always works for me- in the here and now...
...I use the word "adult" here as a verb. We all adult here in a deep and meaningful way. I like to think we kid around too... well over time get get this back...:
gals and pals, is what I call Alanon, laughter and tears- a good measure of both... ...
cheers,
DavidG.
Ellipses Anonymous...
180 Man said
Jan 19, 2018
Thanks again (as always) for the replies.
I'm not certain if I mentioned that my wife will be attending a one day program in February for spouses of addicts. This program is associated with our local health network, and not with Al-Anon. I am still hopeful, though, that she will begin to see the opportunities to work through the pain I have inflicted on our family.
She has also expressed to me her desire to find a sponsor for her workaholism. I don't want to impose any of my own bias and hopes on her, but it seems to me that an AlAnon sponsor might be exactly what she needs. I want to be really careful around this as I do not wish to exert control over this situation, but she did ask me to search for a sponsor for her through my growing AA network. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can find potential Alanon sponsors to connect with her locally? Should I attend an Alanon meeting and ask around there, or is there a better approach?
She is away at a 2 week meditation retreat, so I am spending some time researching opportunities for her that she may wish to consider, and thinking how to present them to her in a way so that she will feel no pressure that I am trying to 'fix' her.
Thanks again all!
M180
SerenityRUS said
Jan 19, 2018
Have you considered talking to some of your AA folks as they may have excellent in's so to speak with the local alanon groups in the area. Chances are the only thing they will do is provide information to you to pass on to your wife.
I don't know how AA works as far as sponsorship .. however in alanon it is advised that for your own healing it is better that you ask for a sponsor on your own .. sponsorship is very personal and you need to really understand and appreciate the sponsor. It helps to attend meetings and listen to others speak about their recovery and then ask for a sponsor.
She really needs to do her own work in her own program vs you being involved in doing so for her. So I just feel like reaching out to your group as well as sponsor and asking how do you get information is appropriate outside of that it sounds like that's totally not your business. I did that for spouses/sig others who asked about information for alanon and we actually had an alanon member at one of the local open aa meetings who would gladly provide that kind of information.
Hugs S :)
Freetime said
Jan 19, 2018
I agree with Serenity that a person needs to find his or her own Al-Anon sponsor. The work of identifying and asking someone is a big recovery step.
I'm hoping that the program for spouses that your wife attends in February will mention Al-Anon as a resource. It is great peer support that complements whatever professional services we are receiving. She might find it more convincing to hear it from them.
Iamhere said
Jan 19, 2018
I'm one that tries to be honest always.....there is nothing wrong with sharing that you stumbled upon this forum and shared a bit of your story. There is nothing wrong with suggesting you've done research and that she may find some support and a a sponsor in Al-Anon. There's nothing wrong with doing some research/legwork since she's asked.
Where we work our side of the program is we share our findings, and then we allow the other to take action or not. We talk often about the three A(s) - Awareness, Acceptance & Action. We also talk about enabling - simply defined as doing for others what they can do for themselves. Keeping these in mind as well as examining your own motives will help you determine how best to present what you've discovered - I have faith in that.
The best part about being sober is we aren't choosing between right/wrong or good/bad any more in a fog of substances. Instead, we are choosing between good/better! It takes some getting used to but what you're doing is earnest and helpful for you both. I also agree she needs to find her own support system - program/not, sponsor/not...consider each step you've taken and how it feels each day to do the next right thing. For me, part of the desire to stay sober in AA and as serene as possible in Al-Anon has everything to do with experiencing 'it' today.
Keep coming back, keep asking and take good care of you!
Jerry F said
Jan 19, 2018
180 one of the best humbling things I learned from my former sponsor in Al-Anon was to "not predict" or "Make assumptions" trying to "fortune tell" my future life before it came about. I believe the lesson also came about my self assurance that my marriage to my alcoholic/addict would crash and burn within a certain period of time and he asked me the question "Could you be wrong"? I didn't dare have my ego respond "no" because for sure I could be wrong having been wrong so many times before. On that day I left the outcome up to my HP and my program...How it turned out was awesome...not even within the area of my expectations. Get into today brother...work the program as suggested and on a daily basis with your Sponsor and HP right at your side and leave the outcomes to that. (((hugs)))
Maresie said
Jan 20, 2018
Some people with workaholism issues find help.in.pr9grams like CODA.
There are lots of issues with boundaries around workaholism.
I think it is pretty impressive your.wife is going to a group. There is plenty of literature out there on
Living with a recovering partner. There is also of.course couples therapy. In some couples therapy there is a chance to work with a lot of tools to reduce conflict and encourage intimacy in measured steps.
As you may know from going to AA meetings there are members who are able to reconcile with their spouses. Those member often share their stories at speaker meetings. There are specialized speaker meetings and.conferences where speakers talk at length about #what it was like what happened and what they did next#.
One of those speakers may be able to share at length with you what their strategies were.
180 Man said
Jan 20, 2018
Thanks all. I have made the decision to do the following:
- above all else focus on myself, and detach as much as I can from my separated wife so that my feelings and hope do not interfere with my recovery.
- suggest resources, but offer no opinions on any of them - that is up to her and not up to me.
- Place my hope in my HP and my recovery - regardless of the outcome I will be a better and happier person.
Thanks for all of the resource suggestions above, I have already begun checking them out.
I'll continue to check back in here, but just want to offer a heartfelt thank you for all of the caring people who helped me at a time of pain and liberation, when it is so difficult to see things clearly enough to make a decision out of purely positive intentions.
M180
DavidG said
Jan 20, 2018
For me, "adult" is a verb, as well as a noun. For any number of reasons none of us has learned to adult well.
It may not cure or heal us, though goodness knows we need both sometimes. What I missed most from the
drinking situation was the conversation- and ambiance. I saw that other people had it and envied.
I am so proud to be a member of this group. Sometimes, when people are ready they get 'a wrap around'.
I have had it too- and learned somehow, how to give it...
...we all know how terrible life can be. We have all bin there, one way or t'other. But to be a part of the
recovery family- is not to be alone. Not any longer...
thanks, you, for raising the topic... ... ...
mamalioness said
Jan 22, 2018
Hey 180, glad you are here and reaching out for help...
my first AH was a turn off as well...he turned me off because he would be nice one minute, putting me down the next...I felt like the sex was just "getting it on" with no heart, no intimacy, no love or caring for me....he was just taking care of a physical gratification.....I ended up being totally turned off by him and i ended the marriage....I had had enough of his drinking, his abuse, his crap, his problems, all of it....I really "knew how to pick them" since I grew up with this stinking disease, I always went with or married emotionally unavailable men..thanks to 12 steps, alanon, I don't anymore...the "fixer uppers" now turn me off and I want nothing to do with them.....You have the obligation to yourself to get yourself well...yea, your marriage may be over and that is part of the consequences of the drinking and behavior that goes with it...A lot of spouses just get fed up with the drama and unhealthy relationship and they leave....
She has been impacted by your drinking , hence, she needs alanon to straighten out HER thinking but thats not your arena..its hers to either get into program and sort her problems out or not...you can only take care of and restore you...going to Meetings, hanging out and sharing with other good program workers who sincerely want to stay sober, thats how you stay sober...one day at a time..and dedication to the meets, the steps, the slogans and literature and working with other recovery mates.........
-- Edited by mamalioness on Monday 22nd of January 2018 12:11:06 AM
bud said
Jan 23, 2018
To answer the question about intimacy - in general, when a woman is overwhelmed and full of negative emotion (anger, sadness, hurt, and truckloads of fear ) she isn't in touch with the intimate feelings. Mainly, intimacy hides under anger and fear. She may or may not even feels it exists at that moment and these feelings are so powerful that they're hard to dispel.
I believe that most couples have a potential to reconnect - because underneath, the bonds still exist and can be rekindled. I don't know if this has a name, but it is a common happening in relationships that don't have a more healthy way of handling / processing / expressing. (I have come to believe that labels aren't as important as the essence of a situation and a loving solution or support.)
In general, kind consistency of thoughts, words, actions, and deeds are my main hallmarks of feeling safer in a situation. Just like when you and she were dating, this is something that happens over time.
I'm glad she's going to a group. It's interesting she asked you to find someone. I remember how lost I felt going to my first meetings and trying to find a sponsor. Like it's been mentioned, it's important she find her own way and chose her own sponsor - someone who has something that she wants to have - someone she can relate to and trust.
Sending prayers.
180 Man said
Jan 24, 2018
So I'll be moving out next week, and praying to my HP that she finds a path that leads to AlAnon, while only supplying her with the information but no opinions.
(she is at a 2 week silent retreat that began a week ago)
How should I handle contact with her once I move out? Should I allow her to initiate all contact, or should I make some effort to show her that I still care? How can I balance providing her space while at the same time nurturing our friendship?
It would be great to hear from those of you in situations similar to her.
Thanks,
M180
SerenityRUS said
Jan 24, 2018
I'm not in that position however I think with any relationship that there can be some contact however it is a balance.
Pause, pray and proceed, I am a firm believer is to thy own self be true that means to me .. it is gentle, it is listening and it is respectful. Letting go without the expectation of a response.
If this offends anyone please don't go further .. lol .. there are positive things I take away from the bible and this is one of them.
I go back to the bible and the 1 Corinthians 13:4 - 8 passages
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts and always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease, where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
You can take what you like however what that says to me is this truly loving someone is allowing them to be who they are, it is not me holding them accountable, it is holding myself accountable, allowing them to be in their own truths and allowing them to ebb and flow. There is nothing wrong with communicating there is something wrong with pressuring. Even when I was dating if someone started to pressure I pushed back and I believe that if my XAH had done some of this and he did in terms of pressuring he was pushed back because I knew he was not coming at me as a healthy individual, he was still trying to manage, manipulate and so on and I was still doing my dance as well.
I think respect is the bottom line in dealing with another person regardless of type of relationship.
As an added disclaimer .. my XAH and I have a very conflicted relationship at this point and if he would match his words to his actions, suit up show up and stop making excuses and stop blaming .. I would be willing to allow my guard down just a little .. right now I'm Fort Knox. Listen to your HP .. listen to your spouse and above all treat her the way you would want to be treated especially since you recognize that she's wounded and needs time to heal. We all have our hurts. Apologies without excuses and space go a LONG way.
Hugs S :)
180 Man said
Jan 24, 2018
SerenityRUS wrote:
I'm not in that position however I think with any relationship that there can be some contact however it is a balance.
Pause, pray and proceed, I am a firm believer is to thy own self be true that means to me .. it is gentle, it is listening and it is respectful. Letting go without the expectation of a response.
If this offends anyone please don't go further .. lol .. there are positive things I take away from the bible and this is one of them.
I go back to the bible and the 1 Corinthians 13:4 - 8 passages
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts and always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease, where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
You can take what you like however what that says to me is this truly loving someone is allowing them to be who they are, it is not me holding them accountable, it is holding myself accountable, allowing them to be in their own truths and allowing them to ebb and flow. There is nothing wrong with communicating there is something wrong with pressuring. Even when I was dating if someone started to pressure I pushed back and I believe that if my XAH had done some of this and he did in terms of pressuring he was pushed back because I knew he was not coming at me as a healthy individual, he was still trying to manage, manipulate and so on and I was still doing my dance as well.
I think respect is the bottom line in dealing with another person regardless of type of relationship.
As an added disclaimer .. my XAH and I have a very conflicted relationship at this point and if he would match his words to his actions, suit up show up and stop making excuses and stop blaming .. I would be willing to allow my guard down just a little .. right now I'm Fort Knox. Listen to your HP .. listen to your spouse and above all treat her the way you would want to be treated especially since you recognize that she's wounded and needs time to heal. We all have our hurts. Apologies without excuses and space go a LONG way.
Hugs S :)
SerenityRUS, thank you, this is meaningful to me! I'll take that advice to heart.
M180
bud said
Jan 26, 2018
There is no right or wrong approach and her emotions are likely to keep fluctuating and maybe even dramatically as she starts her healing process. In my case, I had to process the anger to understand that I still loved him.
I still have the notes my ex-husband sent me during that time-frame.
I believe there's always hope.
What I needed most was to feel his love through consistency of thoughts, words, and deeds, as well as understanding when I needed space.
Continue to pray and listen to your HP for guidance. Speak from your heart and forgive moments that might hurt if she's struggling to regain her balance. Perhaps this is a way that you can grow together.... keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
180 Man said
Jan 26, 2018
Hi bud,
Thanks for sharing your experience, your suggestions are definitely in line with the direction I will be going. Focus first on my recovery, give her enough space for hers, and demonstrate vulnerability, caring, and understanding when our paths do cross.
FYI I may be starting a recovery journal over at Sober Recovery. If I do I will be sure to share the link here.
Thanks again,
M180
SerenityRUS said
Jan 26, 2018
M180 that's really awesome .. some of my best alanon recovery was done at open AA meetings, listening to speakers and just trying to see the miracle of recovery. It helped me merge my healing and understand the disease better. Big hugs and i wish you continued recovery one day at a time.
Hi all,
I am in a recovery, and am approaching the 4 month mark in AA. The last 4 months have been the most amazing I can remember, since my university days when alcohol was actually fun and not a problem.
I hit rock bottom when my wife informed me that she had had enough, and intended to separate from me permanently. We had separated before, and I had promised I would address my drinking problem, but I attempted to do so under my own power and it ended as predicted.
We went for a few months, and I drank moderately but regularly. The beginning of the end was a vacation we took with my brother, where him and I went on a 2 night bender that broke all illusions that I had anything under control. The results of that bender through me in to a depression, and I began drinking more after we got back, and withdrew myself from the family. That lasted about a month until she declared her intentions to end the marriage.
That event finally humbled me, and I shed my pride and began attending AA and meditation classes. These, along with therapy and a whole lot of soul searching, have turned me right around.
The results were impressive to her, and almost enough to turn things around. She even told me at one point that she thought things might work out between us.
What happened one night about 3 weeks ago, is that I tried to kiss her after a night of fun and emotional intimacy we were growing that we never had before. She got this look of horror over her face and told me:
"I don't know if I can ever be physically intimate with you again, I feel like it is ruined for me because you were never emotionally present."
Since then she has maintained the same line: "You have changed, and tick all the boxes, it is too bad that I think I may never get over this feeling of being used by you for physical intimacy."
Have any other women in this forum ever felt similar feelings? Is this going to be too great for us to overcome? Is there any literature I can read about healing this kind of situation? I am at the point where I feel like I am giving up hope, and am ready to move on. I feel like a new man, and with a few more months of recovery will be able to finally give her the marriage she deserves.
Thanks in advance for all thoughts and advice, even if it is what I may not want to hear.
Regardless, though, the price that was paid was worth where I have ended up: sober, mindful, and full of hope for my future.
M180
Thanks again, and any other insights or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Hi M180 Like LC I too felt as your wife however attending alanon meetings, working with a sponsor using the Steps, he and I developed a deeper intimacy than we had ever experienced . It is a process and we had to remember that it took us a long time to disconnect so that it would take time to reconnect and it did!!
There is hope I would suggest that your partner search out alanon face to face meetings and attend because living with the disease we too develop many negative coping tools that need to be addressed so we can have a joyful life. This is one reason alanon was founded. There is hope
Congrts to you for your continued sobriety
Hi Betty,
Thanks so much for weighing in, it sounds like I need to do what I can to try to convince her that Al-Anon would be a benefit for her. I need to do this unselfishly, not out of hope for our marriage, but because it sounds like it could be the right thing for her to begin her healing process. It really can feel tragic that the awakened heart that sobriety brings also brings with it such awareness of the pain inflicted. I am trying to take responsibility for this pain, while at the same time having compassion for the man I was, and work to never becoming that man again.
Thanks again Betty.
To me, it sounds hopeful that she's willing to try the 2-day event. Miracles happen in recovery all the time - both AA and Al-Anon. Keep working your program, one day at a time and love her enough to give her space to process, deal and heal.
We would all 'love' a crystal ball that can tell us what to do today to have a better tomorrow. However, when we project in that way, it robs us of the gifts of today. Celebrate you and keep an open mind - we never know the power of a HP!
I am a double winner (AA and Al-Anon), and met and married my husband in AA. We will be married 27 years in April. He relapsed almost 24 years ago, and never returned to AA. I could tell you all the pain, trauma, heart-ache and more but I prefer to focus on the miracles and what's good in life. I've been able to stay in the marriage and we've been able to figure things out in spite of the disease. It's far, far from perfect, but what is?
This was my second marriage and will be my last. When things got hard in my first marriage, I left and felt justified in doing so. As I worked on recovery, and used the steps on both sides of this program, I did learn that my expectations of self and others were far from realistic. So - today, I am grateful for the miracle of recovery, my marriage, and most of all, my serenity.
Keep doing you - as we say on both sides of the house - more will be revealed!
It was later that I found Alanon and started working the steps with a sponsor and felt relief.
Everyone is different and every situation is different; what I thought I needed to hear from him is that he loved me and to be patient to work things out.What I heard him say was that he couldn't have a relationship with anyone. In hindsight, he may have heard that early in his recovery and repeated (or I heard) it out of context...
I echo other posts, that it would be helpful for your wife to attend Alanon face to face meetings, get a sponsor for support and start working the steps and healing.
There is hope and I pray that your HP will guide you for best outcomes.
In support.
Congratulations on your recovery and hang in there.
I think the thing about drinking, like all addictions, is that it exacts a price. It is kind of like going on a spending spree and racking up a big debt. Afterwards we may say, "But I've stopped spending! I shouldn't have to pay that debt!" - but the thing is that there is a price no matter what. Losing the trust of your wife and causing her prolonged pain is part of the price. You may say, "But I wasn't looking at the price tag when I did it!" But nevertheless there was a price tag. Drinking is one long way of trying to avoid paying the piper. Stopping drinking is acknowledging that there is a price and that it has come due.
The way I see it, there are two things to keep in mind now. One is that this is early days. You have been sober for nearly four months. The first year (sometimes two years, sometimes more) of sobriety can be rough for both the drinker and those around them. There are lots of changes, there is a different focus, there's moodiness and a lot of emotions that have to be dealt with. Trying to get everything back to "normal" (or a new normal) four months in is hurrying the process. I know it would feel good to have everything squared away. But the process doesn't work that quickly. Her emotions are not going to be settled any more than yours are. Plus she may have read something about the statistics of people who relapse in that first year. She would be being only prudent to wait and see how things unfold, rather than jumping into an arrangement that might not work out. I know it is difficult not to know how things are going to work with her. I can see your impatience in saying that you're ready to give up hope, and "am ready to move on." One thing to keep in mind is how long she waited for you to get sober and therefore really be available to be in the relationship. Did she wait longer than four months for you to get sober?
Another thing is that she knows that you have an impulsive "Now I've got it solved!" aspect - as when you had decided you could handle it on your own. So she knows that your confidence levels are not necessarily a true indication of how well it's going to go. In Al-Anon we advise people that when there's doubt, they should wait, because "More will be revealed." If she is waiting, that's only an indication of healthy emotional caution on her part. The fact that she has to use emotional caution - that's where the price tag of alcoholism comes in
One thing that bothered me about my Alcoholic (who relapsed continually, and who did not stay sober) is that every time he'd go into recovery, he'd say, "There! I did it! Now back to normal!" And he'd expect me to act as if nothing had happened. That was how he was when he was drinking, too. He tried to enforce the idea that his drinking was never any big deal. That my reacting to it was my own weirdness. That there was nothing disturbing about the blackouts, benders, lying, unavailability, overspending, health problems, and many other features of his drunkenness. His way of trying to make it "No big deal" was to act as if any response I had was just bizarre peevishness on my part.
So if I had to advise my A (now my ex-A, but still drinking) about this, I would say this: "Take it seriously. Acknowledge that it was serious. Acknowledge that it was very painful. Acknowledge that things were out of control. Acknowledge that many relationships never come back from this. Acknowledge that I put up with things no one should have to put up with. Acknowledge that this is not a problem that is easily solved. Live with the discomfort. Don't try to erase it. Don't cast me as the unreasonable one for feeling this way. If you want to try a relationship together again, sit with the discomfort that the situation calls for. Don't try to hurry me up. What you might endure waiting for me is probably very little compared to what I endured waiting for you. That's where the situation is. If you want to try again, don't erase the past. If you don't want to try again, well and good, that's a fair choice. I'm in doubt too. Don't hurry me up to try to pretend things are 'right' as you have been doing all this time."
You can pay the price for the drinking by waiting her out and giving her time, or you can pay the price by losing the relationship. Those are the choices.
You will show her that things have truly changed by not trying to change her mind about her feelings about her drinking. Let her see the results of your recovery as they unfold over time, and as they show in your patience with her responses to what has happened. Then you can both decide how things will look going forward. In as much as you demand a quick solution, those are the old alcoholic mind-patterns hanging on. That's my experience of it.
Thanks everyone for your caring replies.
Your collective advice confirms my belief that I need to let her go, and give her the space she needs to heal and make the decisions best for her. I'll have to think about the hope that might be there, it is good to know there is hope, but I can't let it cloud my judgement for what is best for me, or try to control the situation with her.
If I focus on my own healing, no matter what the outcome of our marriage, I will be in a better place. I need to stay focused on that.
My wife is a psychology university professor, and very proud. Like me prior to my rock bottom, she doesn't think a group like Al-Anon would help her. I am hoping the 2 day program may help her see differently. Is there any other literature out there I should gently point her to that might help her make an informed decision?
Thanks again everyone, I am glad to have found such a caring and experienced group.
M180
This is very meaningful to me, and helps a lot.
Thank you.
Hi once again To answer your question regarding the literature the answer is "Yes' There is a great deal of alanon approved literature that can be found at alanon meetings or at alanon inter- group office.
We have several daily readers as well as newcomer booklets such as "Alcoholism the Family Disease, "When I got Busy I got Better" . "Paths to Recovery' and my favorite the bookmark," Just for Today"
Hugs S :)
After my H's first recovery, he felt so good (rightly so) that he wanted to act like all the years of chaos didn't exist. That meant all the years of what I call now, meaningless "addict sex" wasn't a thing... that my feelings of being used and then discarded weren't valid. All those years trying to be "the best sex partner" but still not getting that emotional connection from him wasn't my reality. I had to heal...a lot!
As it turns out, I did not take enough time. Because this time around, I have said, "NO WAY!" I don't want to make it a third try.
So the acknowledgement Mattie speaks of is very important. Then let her know you will wait. Then walk the walk... actions speak louder than words in this world!
Hi 180Man - I have been thinking about your post and how to respond/share. Fortunately, everyone has done a fantastic job sharing that I really don't have anything to add. I currently feel the same way about my marriage as far as intimacy is concerned and my AH is not in recovery; he's very active with his alcoholism. I find it very difficult to be affectionate with my AH so any kind of intimacy is out of the question. I have completely emotionally detached and even somewhat physically detached as I won't share our bed with him anymore. I need sleep and I find the snoring and sleep apnea breathing to be very disruptive to me during the night.
I will say that AlAnon has helped me immensely but I don't know if it will save my marriage. I'm learning to take care of me.
Thank you everyone for your ESH - I have also learned from your replies!
Hugs!
I relate to so many shares...
and recall the suggestion often given in early 12-step recovery, don't make any major decisions for a year (I believe.) I myself was in recovery for 18 months before I made a decision on the relationship. the most important relationship in recovery, is recovering that relationship to the Higher Power... that is the "real" relationship that had been lost in my disease. worrying too much about recovering other stuff before I establish my relationship to HP is putting the cart ahead of the horse, as it was explained to me. everything just falls into place as it should when I put "first things first"
I once heard that when a person makes a behavior change, it takes about two years for others to even notice!!! others continue to see us as we were for a very long time. your new life may not yet register in your wife's brain yet... too much history...
But from where I sit, I still see hope in your first post. she has a lot to forgive and this takes time, we humans are not equipped with automatic acceptance buttons, lol
"Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished."
(((hugs)))
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 18th of January 2018 12:38:53 PM
-- Edited by 2HP on Thursday 18th of January 2018 12:55:01 PM
Congratulations on your sobriety! Sending prayers and positive thoughts your way.
That being said, I'm going to hold out hope deep in my heart, but my focus will be on myself and my recovery, and not let my hope for my marriage cause me to pressure my wife in any way.
2HP- I am just starting to realize that my journey is more spiritual in nature than anything else - thanks for sharing.
A bit of news from my end today - after trying out several groups over the past few months, I finally have a sponsor and Home Group!
One final question: is there a name for the condition where my wife can no longer be physically intimate? I would like to do as much reading on it as I can, as well as look up the literature you have recommended above.
Thanks again for all of your support!
M180
Keep doing you, one day at a time!
180 Man the loss of intimacy within the disease of alcoholism is usual and the result of mental and emotional conditioning or re-conditioning it doesn't only happen because of our disease. I would investigate it widely and see what you arrive at in solutions. One of the reasons for me that the loss of intimacy came up was the fear of STDs as my alcoholic/addict spouse resorted to infidelity when she was out there. Alcohol is also a chemical depressant for both the drinker and partner.
Our disease confuses even the best therapist and counselors. This is my back ground and one of the very best descriptions of the program when I arrived held my attention then and now. Our recovery is called Social model therapy meaning the negatively affected help the negatively affect recover sharing their experiences, strengths and hopes.
If you keep and open mind you will find help and quite often this help will come from your sponsor and others in the program who have come thru more dire straits then you. Keep coming back cause this works when you work it. ((((hugs))))
I am impressed with your intention to not pressure your wife and to focus on your own recovery. That is what we learn in Al-Anon... not to force solutions. But we also learn that miracles can happen.
Hi 180 and Y'all,
was not going to weigh in here. Mostly, I think, because I did not want to go outside of the Alanon philosophy.
However this is a special group here. I think members have options elsewhere... other groups, and also seeking professional help.
But for me- this group- right here- has the flavour and strength of a big city group. For someone living in a country town, east of
Australia- it is a mine of gems.
I am proud and impressed with the support emerging here 180... proud to be a member of the group. Lots of times I cringe a bit
over the 'higher power' aspects of recovery- same for all groups-. Something the highly educated might find really off-putting. And
many others too. But if we are troubled and desperate enough we will find our way around all of these obstacles.
I am in favour of holding relationships together- if possible. I apply the serenity prayer here.
Our diversions and addictions hold us back from emotional growth. How do we crank up this growth? Emotional is invisible.
Today is always works for me- in the here and now...
...I use the word "adult" here as a verb. We all adult here in a deep and meaningful way. I like to think we kid around too... well over time get get this back...:
gals and pals, is what I call Alanon, laughter and tears- a good measure of both...
...
DavidG.
Ellipses Anonymous...
I'm not certain if I mentioned that my wife will be attending a one day program in February for spouses of addicts. This program is associated with our local health network, and not with Al-Anon. I am still hopeful, though, that she will begin to see the opportunities to work through the pain I have inflicted on our family.
She has also expressed to me her desire to find a sponsor for her workaholism. I don't want to impose any of my own bias and hopes on her, but it seems to me that an AlAnon sponsor might be exactly what she needs. I want to be really careful around this as I do not wish to exert control over this situation, but she did ask me to search for a sponsor for her through my growing AA network. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can find potential Alanon sponsors to connect with her locally? Should I attend an Alanon meeting and ask around there, or is there a better approach?
She is away at a 2 week meditation retreat, so I am spending some time researching opportunities for her that she may wish to consider, and thinking how to present them to her in a way so that she will feel no pressure that I am trying to 'fix' her.
Thanks again all!
M180
I don't know how AA works as far as sponsorship .. however in alanon it is advised that for your own healing it is better that you ask for a sponsor on your own .. sponsorship is very personal and you need to really understand and appreciate the sponsor. It helps to attend meetings and listen to others speak about their recovery and then ask for a sponsor.
She really needs to do her own work in her own program vs you being involved in doing so for her. So I just feel like reaching out to your group as well as sponsor and asking how do you get information is appropriate outside of that it sounds like that's totally not your business. I did that for spouses/sig others who asked about information for alanon and we actually had an alanon member at one of the local open aa meetings who would gladly provide that kind of information.
Hugs S :)
I'm hoping that the program for spouses that your wife attends in February will mention Al-Anon as a resource. It is great peer support that complements whatever professional services we are receiving. She might find it more convincing to hear it from them.
Where we work our side of the program is we share our findings, and then we allow the other to take action or not. We talk often about the three A(s) - Awareness, Acceptance & Action. We also talk about enabling - simply defined as doing for others what they can do for themselves. Keeping these in mind as well as examining your own motives will help you determine how best to present what you've discovered - I have faith in that.
The best part about being sober is we aren't choosing between right/wrong or good/bad any more in a fog of substances. Instead, we are choosing between good/better! It takes some getting used to but what you're doing is earnest and helpful for you both. I also agree she needs to find her own support system - program/not, sponsor/not...consider each step you've taken and how it feels each day to do the next right thing. For me, part of the desire to stay sober in AA and as serene as possible in Al-Anon has everything to do with experiencing 'it' today.
Keep coming back, keep asking and take good care of you!
180 one of the best humbling things I learned from my former sponsor in Al-Anon was to "not predict" or "Make assumptions" trying to "fortune tell" my future life before it came about. I believe the lesson also came about my self assurance that my marriage to my alcoholic/addict would crash and burn within a certain period of time and he asked me the question "Could you be wrong"? I didn't dare have my ego respond "no" because for sure I could be wrong having been wrong so many times before. On that day I left the outcome up to my HP and my program...How it turned out was awesome...not even within the area of my expectations. Get into today brother...work the program as suggested and on a daily basis with your Sponsor and HP right at your side and leave the outcomes to that. (((hugs)))
Some people with workaholism issues find help.in.pr9grams like CODA.
There are lots of issues with boundaries around workaholism.
I think it is pretty impressive your.wife is going to a group. There is plenty of literature out there on
Living with a recovering partner. There is also of.course couples therapy. In some couples therapy there is a chance to work with a lot of tools to reduce conflict and encourage intimacy in measured steps.
As you may know from going to AA meetings there are members who are able to reconcile with their spouses. Those member often share their stories at speaker meetings. There are specialized speaker meetings and.conferences where speakers talk at length about #what it was like what happened and what they did next#.
One of those speakers may be able to share at length with you what their strategies were.
- above all else focus on myself, and detach as much as I can from my separated wife so that my feelings and hope do not interfere with my recovery.
- suggest resources, but offer no opinions on any of them - that is up to her and not up to me.
- Place my hope in my HP and my recovery - regardless of the outcome I will be a better and happier person.
Thanks for all of the resource suggestions above, I have already begun checking them out.
I'll continue to check back in here, but just want to offer a heartfelt thank you for all of the caring people who helped me at a time of pain and liberation, when it is so difficult to see things clearly enough to make a decision out of purely positive intentions.
M180
For me, "adult" is a verb, as well as a noun. For any number of reasons none of us has learned to adult well.
It may not cure or heal us, though goodness knows we need both sometimes. What I missed most from the
drinking situation was the conversation- and ambiance. I saw that other people had it and envied.
I am so proud to be a member of this group. Sometimes, when people are ready they get 'a wrap around'.
I have had it too- and learned somehow, how to give it...
...we all know how terrible life can be. We have all bin there, one way or t'other. But to be a part of the
recovery family- is not to be alone. Not any longer...
thanks, you, for raising the topic...
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Hey 180, glad you are here and reaching out for help...
my first AH was a turn off as well...he turned me off because he would be nice one minute, putting me down the next...I felt like the sex was just "getting it on" with no heart, no intimacy, no love or caring for me....he was just taking care of a physical gratification.....I ended up being totally turned off by him and i ended the marriage....I had had enough of his drinking, his abuse, his crap, his problems, all of it....I really "knew how to pick them" since I grew up with this stinking disease, I always went with or married emotionally unavailable men..thanks to 12 steps, alanon, I don't anymore...the "fixer uppers" now turn me off and I want nothing to do with them.....You have the obligation to yourself to get yourself well...yea, your marriage may be over and that is part of the consequences of the drinking and behavior that goes with it...A lot of spouses just get fed up with the drama and unhealthy relationship and they leave....
She has been impacted by your drinking , hence, she needs alanon to straighten out HER thinking but thats not your arena..its hers to either get into program and sort her problems out or not...you can only take care of and restore you...going to Meetings, hanging out and sharing with other good program workers who sincerely want to stay sober, thats how you stay sober...one day at a time..and dedication to the meets, the steps, the slogans and literature and working with other recovery mates.........
-- Edited by mamalioness on Monday 22nd of January 2018 12:11:06 AM
I believe that most couples have a potential to reconnect - because underneath, the bonds still exist and can be rekindled. I don't know if this has a name, but it is a common happening in relationships that don't have a more healthy way of handling / processing / expressing. (I have come to believe that labels aren't as important as the essence of a situation and a loving solution or support.)
In general, kind consistency of thoughts, words, actions, and deeds are my main hallmarks of feeling safer in a situation. Just like when you and she were dating, this is something that happens over time.
I'm glad she's going to a group. It's interesting she asked you to find someone. I remember how lost I felt going to my first meetings and trying to find a sponsor. Like it's been mentioned, it's important she find her own way and chose her own sponsor - someone who has something that she wants to have - someone she can relate to and trust.
Sending prayers.
So I'll be moving out next week, and praying to my HP that she finds a path that leads to AlAnon, while only supplying her with the information but no opinions.
(she is at a 2 week silent retreat that began a week ago)
How should I handle contact with her once I move out? Should I allow her to initiate all contact, or should I make some effort to show her that I still care? How can I balance providing her space while at the same time nurturing our friendship?
It would be great to hear from those of you in situations similar to her.
Thanks,
M180
Pause, pray and proceed, I am a firm believer is to thy own self be true that means to me .. it is gentle, it is listening and it is respectful. Letting go without the expectation of a response.
If this offends anyone please don't go further .. lol .. there are positive things I take away from the bible and this is one of them.
I go back to the bible and the 1 Corinthians 13:4 - 8 passages
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts and always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease, where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
You can take what you like however what that says to me is this truly loving someone is allowing them to be who they are, it is not me holding them accountable, it is holding myself accountable, allowing them to be in their own truths and allowing them to ebb and flow. There is nothing wrong with communicating there is something wrong with pressuring. Even when I was dating if someone started to pressure I pushed back and I believe that if my XAH had done some of this and he did in terms of pressuring he was pushed back because I knew he was not coming at me as a healthy individual, he was still trying to manage, manipulate and so on and I was still doing my dance as well.
I think respect is the bottom line in dealing with another person regardless of type of relationship.
As an added disclaimer .. my XAH and I have a very conflicted relationship at this point and if he would match his words to his actions, suit up show up and stop making excuses and stop blaming .. I would be willing to allow my guard down just a little .. right now I'm Fort Knox. Listen to your HP .. listen to your spouse and above all treat her the way you would want to be treated especially since you recognize that she's wounded and needs time to heal. We all have our hurts. Apologies without excuses and space go a LONG way.
Hugs S :)
SerenityRUS, thank you, this is meaningful to me! I'll take that advice to heart.
M180
I still have the notes my ex-husband sent me during that time-frame.
I believe there's always hope.
What I needed most was to feel his love through consistency of thoughts, words, and deeds, as well as understanding when I needed space.
Continue to pray and listen to your HP for guidance. Speak from your heart and forgive moments that might hurt if she's struggling to regain her balance. Perhaps this is a way that you can grow together.... keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.
Hi bud,
Thanks for sharing your experience, your suggestions are definitely in line with the direction I will be going. Focus first on my recovery, give her enough space for hers, and demonstrate vulnerability, caring, and understanding when our paths do cross.
FYI I may be starting a recovery journal over at Sober Recovery. If I do I will be sure to share the link here.
Thanks again,
M180