So... Iāve come to realize that Iām dating an alcoholic. The main problem? He doesnāt think he has a problem so no changes are being made.. like someone else mentioned, itās exactly like dating Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde. I think the worst part about it is that he doesnāt even see it.. just treats me like a dick but I have to walk on egg shells and watch what I say so things donāt escalate.. meanwhile heās saying w/e the fck he wants.. goes from wanting a future of marriage and kids and moving in w me to āus moving too fast/what do I even see in him/we havenāt even been together long enough to tell if things are gonna work w usā... to complicate things further, I go to visit him while on my break (I had to move away to continue school), heās taking a nap and I find a prescription for acyclovir.. mind you, itās dated three wks prior and weād just had unprotected sex. If you donāt know, that rx is for genital herpes.. Iām fkn livid n incredibly hurt. Apparently he āhad it ten yrs ago but it never re-appeared n he thought heād been subsequently tested and told he didnāt have anythingā. Problem: herpes is for life.. now, I may have it. Will get tested in two days but as a future healthcare provider, Iām intelligent enough to do further research and realize that you need to get tested around 45 days after your last exposure.. my dilemma- do I stay or do I go? If I have it now, who else is gonna wanna be w me? Honestly brings about suicidal ideations again (history of depression). Wanting to be happy like we were before but unsure if thatās even possible anymore w his growing affection for alcohol getting stronger and stronger.. feeling frustrated, scared, hurt, angry, confused, lost.. feel like I donāt deserve all the bs Iām dealing w and dk how to deal..
hotrod said
Dec 19, 2017
Welcome, glad that you found us and had the courage to share. Alcoholism is indeed a dreadful progressive chronic disease over which we are powerless. I'm sorry that you have experienced the painful medical condition as a result, and am pleased that you are taking appropriate action to take care of yourself
The behavior that you describe such as walking on eggshells and Dr. Jekyll is very familiar to most of us.
Al-Anon is a recovery program set up for family and friends of alcoholics because many of us get trapped in the insanity of the disease, and abandon ourselves.
Face-to-face meetings are held in most communities and the hotline number can be found in the white pages. No one will give you advice at these meetings but will provide loving atmosphere in which you will be able to embrace new tools to live by and find the support from like-minded people.
Living one day at a time, focused on our own needs, helps to restore self-esteem and self-worth.
There is hope so please keep coming back
FckdByKarma said
Dec 19, 2017
I truly appreciate your message.. I may check out the hotline/in person support you mentioned.. thank you.
Jerry F said
Dec 19, 2017
Try reading your post as if you were someone else, maybe one of us and see what you come up with in awareness about where you are at and what you should do. You did that one thing right by coming to a place of awareness and experience and keep coming back. If you don't or won't change this disease gets awfully worse and fits into the category of fatal. Keep coming back...((((hugs))))
AnnieFenk321 said
Dec 20, 2017
The same thing happened to me! My ah lied to me about an STI test before we got married even though he knew that he had HPV/Genital Warts many years previously. He also had some rationalisation about how "it has been so many years since I was infected." I am grateful I have not yet had any symptoms and STI tests I have done have come back negative.
When I found out I felt so much anger and betrayal. This was one of the first times I discovered that he can lie to me and I don't even know. He is a very skilled liar and I believed many things that were not true for a long time, sometimes, like in this case, it had consequences.
I have been told that addicts and alcoholics can have a difficult time being honest with themselves and others. It's part of their condition that recovery helps them address. I truly believe my husband's lies to me, including this one, is not because he is an evil person who wanted me to be infected but because of the true difficulties he experiences with honesty that is part of his disease. He is a sick man.
Now, this doesn't mean that I don't protect myself from him. I have to do this. I am slowly though this program learning to take steps to protect myself in a way that is calm and reasonable and not insane and frantic.
Walking on eggshells dr jekyll/mr hyde I can relate to as well. My husband is dependent on things outside of himself for his happiness - his fixes. So it's no surprise his mood is all over the place. I am here to get my own distance and perspective and not get sucked into this up and down game I have been playing for four years.
I also have to face the fact that I have a tendency to ignore my own intuitions about this person and put his happiness/mood/stability ahead of my own.
Sending very best wishes. Keep coming back. I am also pretty new here but I have already experienced a major shift in my thinking.
Skorpi said
Dec 20, 2017
Welcome, glad you found your way to us.
Dr. Jekyll indeed. Sounds very familiar to me.
I did not realize two important things about my wife for the first 8 years we were together. First, lying and avoiding reality are part of the disease of alcoholism. Second, the partner I love is an alcoholic.
Discovering these two things was important, because I was losing my grasp on reality with all the lies and gaslighting that was going on. I had resorted to communicating anything of any importance to her via text message, so I had a written record of whether I had or had not said/told her something. The lies were so thick and she was so emphatic, I really believed that I must be remembering things incorrectly, or meaning to say things and then not saying them. Thanks to Al-Anon, I realized that the blow up was going to happen, whether I was walking on egg shells or not, and that I did not need to discuss my reality with her as though it were open to interpretation.
Keep coming back. In my experience, this program helps me to keep grounded and aware of my own needs.
Mattie said
Dec 20, 2017
I'm sorry you are in this situation but glad you have found us. It sounds like you have a lot of awareness. I wasn't familiar with alcoholism when I first started dating one, so like you (as I gather) I didn't realize the full extent of the syndrome. Lying is a huge part of it. They lie to us and they lie to themselves. So whether he has herpes, whether he is cheating, whether he has problems X, Y, and Z - he will lie about them all. The alcohol helps numb them from the consequences of all their actions. It is tragic but true. And that is also one reason that honest talks with them are not possible. They will lie every which way to keep us on the hook and to keep from facing the reality of their actions. Mine said at various times that he wasn't drinking, that he used to drink but he didn't do it any more, that he did do it but it was easy to stop so he just would, that I was crazy to care, that all the problems were in my imagination, etc. etc. etc... Each time he would say it with so much belief and conviction, it was hard for me to get my mind around the fact that he was just an outright liar. I think half the time he believed his own lies.
But what we know about your guy is that a) he is an alcoholic, b) he lies, c) he has knowingly and uncaringly exposed you to an incurable health condition. If you had a friend who was dating someone who had done those things, what would you advise her?
One thing I wish is that someone had told me the statistics about alcoholism up front. The statistics are that only 15-25% of those who go into formal recovery programs achieve longterm sobriety. That is people who enter the programs - people like your guy who are not even in a program have an even worse prognosis. So those are the odds. That's how strong the addiction is. What this means is that it is quite unlikely that things will change. Except that alcoholism always gets worse, never better, unless arrested by recovery (or by death or jail). So this is not only what things are going to look like, this is the best part of it. It goes downhill from here. I wish someone had made this clear to me up front.
My guess is that you may well not have picked up herpes yet. You could consult your doctor for more information. But if you stay around, the chances of getting it are there. It is not a death sentence, and many, many people in the world have it, so it certainly does not mean you can never date again. But obviously it's better to steer clear of it if you can. The best way to do that is to not have sex with this man, obviously.
The funny thing about us Al-Anoners and co-dependents is that we're often reluctant to leave people who cause us pain. We attach fast and we detach with great pain and reluctance. I know I used to tell myself all kinds of things: "This is as good as it gets, better hang on." "I know I can just make him love me the way he should, I know he's a good person deep down." "If I don't stick with him I'll be alone and that's terrifying and I don't think I could handle the feelings." "Probably all the others are worse." As the saying is, My "picker" was broken and my thought processes were out of kilter. That's where Al-Anon comes in. It can give us the tools to handle chaos and to make the right choices for ourselves. I hope you can dive into the program and take good care of yourself.
AnnieFenk321 said
Dec 20, 2017
Wow Mattie:
We attach fast and we detach with great pain and reluctance.
I identify with that so strongly.
Thank you for the great share. I am going through the process of a separation at the moment. I keep feeling awful about the pain I am causing him. I sometimes think, if I am so worried about him and feeling bad for his pain, who is going to consider the pain he has caused me? Putting myself last all the time, and thinking that I can withstand horrible situations but others can't tolerate minor discomfort is a big part of my disease.
Iamhere said
Dec 20, 2017
Welcome to MIP - glad you found us and glad that you shared. What Al-Anon helped me realize is I do have control and power over me, my choices and my life path. I don't have to be with/around anyone that isn't healthy for me. I can set boundaries, and I can seek to understand what it is about me that has me feeling so stuck. If love were enough, there would not be any alcoholics....
Al-Anon helps us stop focusing on them and what they are/are not doing and focus on us. Most of us realize we have many of the same defects they do and we work to change who we are so we can respond to life in a healthy way instead of reactive way.
Whether another recovers or not, that doesn't stop us from doing so. I no longer give my power away to anyone, including those I love who are affected by alcoholism. I can separate them from the disease and myself from them and live with peace and harmony most days.
Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery.
Maresie said
Dec 21, 2017
Welcome to this group
Unfortunately a lot of what you are saying is familiar to us.
Am anon.can be.a.big help.in.learning new.skills that can be really helpful
There are meetings here a.chat room.and a.lot of recovery
If and.can get to face to face meetings all.is good.
You could look.up attachment theories which is about how people #attach# in romantic relationships. For me those theories take the bewilderment and shame out if it.
We can get crushed by shame.
Finally it is the holidays really difficult for some of us. One of the things we talk about in al anon is expectations. Expectations.are about having a realistic view of what you are dealing with. A liar is probably going to o to be to be a liar. People generally drink more over the holidays. I put myself through a lot of help over the hol8days. Of course I had help to deal with but I made it worse. I was never able to be realistic to the alcoholic until I started working a program (even then I slipped over s lot) . When I really embraced al.anon the focus came off the alcoholic.
Maresie
Jayla said
Dec 21, 2017
Hugs to you Karma. I'm sorry you are going through such a cruddy situation. I would like to throw in a little info-take what you like and leave the rest. YES YES YES to what Mattie said about the recovery rate and progression of alcoholism. I wish I had know that up front too. I wish I had known it before I married an alcoholic and had two children with him. When I first met him even when he was drunk he would just go on and on about how much he loved me. But in less than 5 years he went from that to saying the most horrible, hurtful things to me, cheating on me, and completely disregarding my feelings. It sounds like your man is already starting farther down that dark path than my soon to be ex. It's not going to get better--only worse as several have pointed out. It would be so much easier to cut one's losses and leave as a free single person rather than having to go through a full divorce with children involved, just saying. That's as close to advice as we're allowed to get here. Spend some time reading about the progression of alcoholism and decide if that's the life you want to live. Best of luck to you and keep coming back.
Elabella said
Dec 21, 2017
I hear you. I'm new as well and feel the exact same way you do. My AH is getting worse, and I'm just so confused and lost at the moment. All I can say is please know you are not alone. These boards have restored me to sanity many times. Just reading through others posts. I've been to two meetings and they were great. It's therapeutic to meet others who are all in the same boat. Sending you hugs..
WestMan said
Dec 22, 2017
Hi Karma. You are going through a lot. Very smart of you to seek help. I would suggest doing some reading up on the herpes virus. For most people the worst thing about it is the name. It usually has minimal symptoms and often goes unnoticed. It is easily transmitted and Some estimates put the infection rate at around 1/4 of the population. Many of these are unaware.
If you have it you want to be armed with accurate information. The Planned Parenthood site has good info. When it comes to future partners you may find that some just won't be able to get past it. But for others they may just need the info of what the disease actually is, how you can protect yourselves and, if they're smart, will appreciate you having the courage to be honest.
Steph79 said
Dec 27, 2017
Welcome - I'm new too, and can relate to a LOT of what you're going through... just having good people to talk to like we have here is a HUGE help. God Bless!
Welcome, glad that you found us and had the courage to share. Alcoholism is indeed a dreadful progressive chronic disease over which we are powerless. I'm sorry that you have experienced the painful medical condition as a result, and am pleased that you are taking appropriate action to take care of yourself
The behavior that you describe such as walking on eggshells and Dr. Jekyll is very familiar to most of us.
Al-Anon is a recovery program set up for family and friends of alcoholics because many of us get trapped in the insanity of the disease, and abandon ourselves.
Face-to-face meetings are held in most communities and the hotline number can be found in the white pages. No one will give you advice at these meetings but will provide loving atmosphere in which you will be able to embrace new tools to live by and find the support from like-minded people.
Living one day at a time, focused on our own needs, helps to restore self-esteem and self-worth.
There is hope so please keep coming back
Try reading your post as if you were someone else, maybe one of us and see what you come up with in awareness about where you are at and what you should do. You did that one thing right by coming to a place of awareness and experience and keep coming back. If you don't or won't change this disease gets awfully worse and fits into the category of fatal. Keep coming back...((((hugs))))
The same thing happened to me! My ah lied to me about an STI test before we got married even though he knew that he had HPV/Genital Warts many years previously. He also had some rationalisation about how "it has been so many years since I was infected." I am grateful I have not yet had any symptoms and STI tests I have done have come back negative.
When I found out I felt so much anger and betrayal. This was one of the first times I discovered that he can lie to me and I don't even know. He is a very skilled liar and I believed many things that were not true for a long time, sometimes, like in this case, it had consequences.
I have been told that addicts and alcoholics can have a difficult time being honest with themselves and others. It's part of their condition that recovery helps them address. I truly believe my husband's lies to me, including this one, is not because he is an evil person who wanted me to be infected but because of the true difficulties he experiences with honesty that is part of his disease. He is a sick man.
Now, this doesn't mean that I don't protect myself from him. I have to do this. I am slowly though this program learning to take steps to protect myself in a way that is calm and reasonable and not insane and frantic.
Walking on eggshells dr jekyll/mr hyde I can relate to as well. My husband is dependent on things outside of himself for his happiness - his fixes. So it's no surprise his mood is all over the place. I am here to get my own distance and perspective and not get sucked into this up and down game I have been playing for four years.
I also have to face the fact that I have a tendency to ignore my own intuitions about this person and put his happiness/mood/stability ahead of my own.
Sending very best wishes. Keep coming back. I am also pretty new here but I have already experienced a major shift in my thinking.
Dr. Jekyll indeed. Sounds very familiar to me.
I did not realize two important things about my wife for the first 8 years we were together. First, lying and avoiding reality are part of the disease of alcoholism. Second, the partner I love is an alcoholic.
Discovering these two things was important, because I was losing my grasp on reality with all the lies and gaslighting that was going on. I had resorted to communicating anything of any importance to her via text message, so I had a written record of whether I had or had not said/told her something. The lies were so thick and she was so emphatic, I really believed that I must be remembering things incorrectly, or meaning to say things and then not saying them. Thanks to Al-Anon, I realized that the blow up was going to happen, whether I was walking on egg shells or not, and that I did not need to discuss my reality with her as though it were open to interpretation.
Keep coming back. In my experience, this program helps me to keep grounded and aware of my own needs.
I'm sorry you are in this situation but glad you have found us. It sounds like you have a lot of awareness. I wasn't familiar with alcoholism when I first started dating one, so like you (as I gather) I didn't realize the full extent of the syndrome. Lying is a huge part of it. They lie to us and they lie to themselves. So whether he has herpes, whether he is cheating, whether he has problems X, Y, and Z - he will lie about them all. The alcohol helps numb them from the consequences of all their actions. It is tragic but true. And that is also one reason that honest talks with them are not possible. They will lie every which way to keep us on the hook and to keep from facing the reality of their actions. Mine said at various times that he wasn't drinking, that he used to drink but he didn't do it any more, that he did do it but it was easy to stop so he just would, that I was crazy to care, that all the problems were in my imagination, etc. etc. etc... Each time he would say it with so much belief and conviction, it was hard for me to get my mind around the fact that he was just an outright liar. I think half the time he believed his own lies.
But what we know about your guy is that a) he is an alcoholic, b) he lies, c) he has knowingly and uncaringly exposed you to an incurable health condition. If you had a friend who was dating someone who had done those things, what would you advise her?
One thing I wish is that someone had told me the statistics about alcoholism up front. The statistics are that only 15-25% of those who go into formal recovery programs achieve longterm sobriety. That is people who enter the programs - people like your guy who are not even in a program have an even worse prognosis. So those are the odds. That's how strong the addiction is. What this means is that it is quite unlikely that things will change. Except that alcoholism always gets worse, never better, unless arrested by recovery (or by death or jail). So this is not only what things are going to look like, this is the best part of it. It goes downhill from here. I wish someone had made this clear to me up front.
My guess is that you may well not have picked up herpes yet. You could consult your doctor for more information. But if you stay around, the chances of getting it are there. It is not a death sentence, and many, many people in the world have it, so it certainly does not mean you can never date again. But obviously it's better to steer clear of it if you can. The best way to do that is to not have sex with this man, obviously.
The funny thing about us Al-Anoners and co-dependents is that we're often reluctant to leave people who cause us pain. We attach fast and we detach with great pain and reluctance. I know I used to tell myself all kinds of things: "This is as good as it gets, better hang on." "I know I can just make him love me the way he should, I know he's a good person deep down." "If I don't stick with him I'll be alone and that's terrifying and I don't think I could handle the feelings." "Probably all the others are worse." As the saying is, My "picker" was broken and my thought processes were out of kilter. That's where Al-Anon comes in. It can give us the tools to handle chaos and to make the right choices for ourselves. I hope you can dive into the program and take good care of yourself.
We attach fast and we detach with great pain and reluctance.
I identify with that so strongly.
Thank you for the great share. I am going through the process of a separation at the moment. I keep feeling awful about the pain I am causing him. I sometimes think, if I am so worried about him and feeling bad for his pain, who is going to consider the pain he has caused me? Putting myself last all the time, and thinking that I can withstand horrible situations but others can't tolerate minor discomfort is a big part of my disease.
Al-Anon helps us stop focusing on them and what they are/are not doing and focus on us. Most of us realize we have many of the same defects they do and we work to change who we are so we can respond to life in a healthy way instead of reactive way.
Whether another recovers or not, that doesn't stop us from doing so. I no longer give my power away to anyone, including those I love who are affected by alcoholism. I can separate them from the disease and myself from them and live with peace and harmony most days.
Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery.
Welcome to this group
Unfortunately a lot of what you are saying is familiar to us.
Am anon.can be.a.big help.in.learning new.skills that can be really helpful
There are meetings here a.chat room.and a.lot of recovery
If and.can get to face to face meetings all.is good.
You could look.up attachment theories which is about how people #attach# in romantic relationships. For me those theories take the bewilderment and shame out if it.
We can get crushed by shame.
Finally it is the holidays really difficult for some of us. One of the things we talk about in al anon is expectations. Expectations.are about having a realistic view of what you are dealing with. A liar is probably going to o to be to be a liar. People generally drink more over the holidays. I put myself through a lot of help over the hol8days. Of course I had help to deal with but I made it worse. I was never able to be realistic to the alcoholic until I started working a program (even then I slipped over s lot) . When I really embraced al.anon the focus came off the alcoholic.
Maresie
Hi Karma. You are going through a lot. Very smart of you to seek help. I would suggest doing some reading up on the herpes virus. For most people the worst thing about it is the name. It usually has minimal symptoms and often goes unnoticed. It is easily transmitted and Some estimates put the infection rate at around 1/4 of the population. Many of these are unaware.
If you have it you want to be armed with accurate information. The Planned Parenthood site has good info. When it comes to future partners you may find that some just won't be able to get past it. But for others they may just need the info of what the disease actually is, how you can protect yourselves and, if they're smart, will appreciate you having the courage to be honest.