Help with detaching...why can't I wrap my head around this??!
Elabella said
Dec 13, 2017
I honestly feel so unsure about my methods of detaching. Tonight things were going well- I cooked a lovely dinner and AH was in a pretty good mood. Then, like has been becoming the norm as of late, he totally changed his demeanour. He had asked earlier in the evening if I would go buy beer for him, and I said I would. I didn't want to start a fight- he knows how I feel about his drinking. He said he would go with me- I could drive him. Fine. I didn't react- didn't get angry or sulky. I said ok. Flash forward a half hour later. He has a complete meltdown. Saying I'm playing games with him- that I was supposed to go and I was just dilly dallying on purpose??! I reminded him- gently- that he said he wanted to go with me and I was actually waiting on him to say he was ready to go. This just pushed him over the edge- started yelling and cursing at me. I calmly told him to stop yelling at me and cursing because I don't deserve it. This statement is like adding gasoline to a raging fire. It does NOTHING to calm the situation. If anything it makes things worse! Is this not what I'm supposed to do?? Or do I wait til his rage passes and say it then??? None of it makes sense to me. Not my saying those words, not his insane reaction to nothing. I then approached him and said ok- let's go now. He turns and yells that he wants nothing from me EVER again.?! It's crazy. So thankfully I had to leave anyways to take our daughter to her tutors. He then seethes at me as I'm leaving and says," you like wasting money don't you?? I have to take a cab now because of you!!!". Oh dear God. I just looked at him and told him it was his choice. What a complete nuthouse. We came back an hour later and he's just quiet. I don't understand any of it. As I was trying to use the tools- I asked what I needed in that moment...and my answer was for me to be away from him. What kind of marriage is that?? I honestly don't know what to do. It's like I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. So confusing and infuriating. What am I doing wrong? I used the tools and I didn't feel much better than if I wouldn't have....help!
mamalioness said
Dec 13, 2017
I think if this is a habit with him?? next time?? walk away...remove myself from the "discussion" let him cuss out the walls....up my meetings...get a sponsor....are you going to the meets yet?? got a sponsor?? That will guide you big time on living a better life....."using the tools" is a good thing, but really you need the meets and a good sponsor.......take care
Elabella said
Dec 13, 2017
Hi mamalioness... This has been a new habit of his. He was never like this over the years. I've been with him nearly 30 years and can say it has gotten progressively worse over the last 5 years or so. I have only been to two meetings and I do not have a sponsor. I have no idea how to go about getting a sponsor? Does it have to be a person at the meeting?
hotrod said
Dec 13, 2017
HI, In detaching I have tried to stop playing games be honest , keep the focus on myself and say what i need without being mean. In the situation that you described, if you agreed to go with him to the store , then determining the time to go would have been important. In detaching we simply take care of ourselves, our feelings ou needs and allow the other person to do the same
Elabella said
Dec 13, 2017
Thank you hotrod. I think there was definite miscommunication on my part. It's difficult to look at the big picture because I'm expecting to be dealing with a rational being. I realize that while actively drinking, many of his reactions are not rational. I just really need to work on myself.ALOT. Thank you for your input- I really am grateful.....
mamalioness said
Dec 13, 2017
Hey Elabella, sounds like he is getting deep into the disease and trust me, if he doesn't go to rehab and AA, it WILL get worse...he is beginning to have the signs where the disease eats his capability to be rational.....it will keep on getting worse till he gets help..in the meantime, you just take care of you...leave him to his own devices....thats what I would do....just take your hands OFF anything regarding him, and focus on you....and no..sponsor can be a recovery mate...i found one of mine on line in a group..not this MIP community but an old CoDa site I was on....but yea, any trusted recovery person whom you can resonate with, I say face to face because if crisis strikes, its good to have someone you can call and maybe meet at a coffee house to chat strategy......but yea, at the meetings, you meet healthier people who can be great allies in times like this.....I like what hotrod says about if you make a "beer run" establish the time you leave for that run and take him... doesn't he have a car to drive himself?? or was he drinking when he asked you to drive??? I think from now on, I would just leave him to his own devices , be cool, polite, but definitely establish your own boundaries/space ....
Elabella said
Dec 13, 2017
Thanks mamalioness. You are right- I believe it's the disease progressing. The issue with the beer runs are several. Firstly, the man drinks from morning til night 365 days a year. Not falling over drunk ever- but just enough alcohol to keep him functioning, so driving would be out of the question. Secondly, he doesn't have a drivers licence. Which is a good thing. I grew up in an alcoholic home- my father was a binge drinker, and a very ugly, abusive one to boot. My mother always used to tell me," as long as I buy him the beer he doesn't fight me and it keeps the peace. He will get that beer either way, so rather than risk him driving ill buy it ". This used to drive me completely bananas. But now here I am- in the same situation. Is this detaching or enabling? I really need to get myself a sponsor. I missed today's meeting so will definitely go next week and speak to someone about getting one for myself.
mamalioness said
Dec 14, 2017
I don't think it is enabling, because you are, I assume both on the titles to the cars??? insurance??? what if he gets in a wreck and kills someone...they can attach YOUR assets as well..so doing a "beer run" I can't see, in your case, that being anything but you covering your butt..hes gonna drink anyway and so may as well keep the peace till you can get enough program under your belt to make better decisions as to what you want for your future.....
Its clear by your posts, you are not happy where you are at now...so where do you want to be in 1 year??? 5 years???? this is what Al-anon will help you with..some folks stay with their alcoholics and they "tough it out" till the end....a lot of them leave, like I did because it is too high maintenance and too much hassle and stress and I was burned out...done...I wanted my peace at any price......yea, it was tough at first, relying only on me, but at night?/ OMG..the PEACE....No burning stuff on the stove....no puking in the bathroom, "driving the porcelean bus" or "bowl hugging" sick and often missing the bowl.....GROSS!!!! burned me out because his aim was not that good....talking , yelling at the TV and the dogs......he was nice to me, but a royal pain in the ass when drunk.....busted a lot of my good , clear glass dishes, i had to toss them and start over on my collection to build up two cute sets now...burning my skillets and pots and pans.....it was horrible....and he was NICE to me!!! the wrecked holidays because he was too plastered and we ended up staying home....having to "come get him" at this bar and that bar because he was too drunk to drive the truck....at least , and I say he at least learned his lesson...ONE driving drunk violation and he never drove drunk again, so I have to give him credit, but yea, I had to get up...drive to the bar, get him..come back the next day to get the truck....on a work day??? I would hang up on him after I told him to either walk or hitchhike, I gotta get up early and I am not getting out of bed to pick him up when I gotta work the next day....oh yea, REAL fun life!!!! he flat out refused to go to AA...I wanted Al-anon for me..AA for him...He flat out refused...I told him on a certain date if we weren't in recovery, he was moving out...End of story....It was May..I packed up his stuff and he toted it to the base where he could stay...Not long after, he found a female drinking partner and he shacked up with her and I think, after our divorce, married her so they could "party harty" together....I wish him well, but I would never do it again...Marry or even date an addict....But you have to find out, through program, what is your best way to "do life" I am not gonna say (I CANT tell you what to do) Its not my place or my right, YOU have to find out through program work, what is your best path...Only you can decide that....
If you want to stay, I would go to the meets, and be-friend another gal who chooses to stay and get her esh on how do you live with this disease w/out going nuts....program and sharing and caring with others will help you find yourself and help you make better decisions with the rest of your life......
I do wish good luck at the meets and in finding recovery partners and/or sponsor to work the steps with and just getting a firm grasp on what YOU want, and what YOU need and whats YOUR good path to be on....program literally saved my life and my sanity......I grew up with this crap so long history but that is past......I see you are open to learning and thinking and wanting to be in a better place......Bless you and trust me, you are not alone......
Jerry F said
Dec 14, 2017
((((Elabella)))) you are still a newbie and there is so much more to learn and experience. Most of us here have lots and lots of time in recovery and while we have gone thru what you are going thru now we did it over and over until we took the suggestions of meetings, meetings, meetings, steps and traditions, sponsorships and more. Many of us have learned to assimilate the program so that it is now second nature to us. We speak Alaneese and think in that language also and we had to start somewhere and then work it because that is how it works. I had to drop so many old perceptions that didn't and wouldn't work and then finally adopted the thought force that if I did what the old timers did I would get what they had and that is the reality I hang on to and it works when I work it.
One simple response to my alcoholic wanting me to drink with her or get it for her was a very simple two letter sentence..."No" said calmly like HotRod mentions...don't say it mean. I use to go out into the garage or yard and practice that until I got it a habit. That didn't stop her from drinking and using it stopped me from participating with resentments and angers and such. I was told that "No" is a complete sentence and it is. Try it...good luck and I am still in support. ((((hugs))))
Aline said
Dec 14, 2017
I hope you won't be hard on yourself, detachment is really hard and it takes time, and you are beginning to work on yourself and that is great, the program works if we work it. I know I tend to be too hard on myself almost all the time, and that's something I clearly need to work on...
I can share that I used to buy my ex-abf beers all the time for years, and I know my motives were not healthy, but at the time this was the only way I knew how to protect myself. In the beginning when I didn't understand that he was an alcoholic I thought I was being helpful... Buying alcohol for both of us and then just for him became a habit that I grew to resent and hate fervently (and by extension, I began to hate and resent myself), but by that time I was so afraid of his reaction if I refused to continue and I also wanted to avoid conflict, really this was based on fear... And in fact at first when I finally found the guts to say no, buy your own booze, I'm not doing it anymore, I'm done helping to destroy your health, it really was terrible and scary and pretty traumatic to me, he was angry, blaming, shouting, I would call those tantrums except that a grown man was doing it, and that was his disease fighting against the inconvenience of my actions... It was bad and scary, but after a while he saw I meant it, that I would not under any circumstance buy booze anymore, and - things got better for me, and maybe also for him. Now, no matter how hungover or drunk he was, he knew he had to get to the shop himself...
After a long time I finally learned there's no avoiding conflict, whatever I do, active alcoholics can blame and shame, and there's nothing at all I could do to prevent that from happening except do my best to not get caught up... There was a time when I really was a doormat, but that didn't stop the alcoholic from blaming me... I thought it would, and if it would, I might have stayed a doormat, but that's not what happened. I'm glad - I don't want to be a doormat anymore, even a happy doormat, lol.
This is my experience, please take what you like and leave the rest. Hugs, (((((Elabella)))), I encourage you to continue with f2f meetings, and keep coming back. Know that you are not alone!!!
-- Edited by Aline on Thursday 14th of December 2017 04:17:43 AM
Iamhere said
Dec 14, 2017
Elabella - detaching is hard. I recall vividly that feeling of darned if I do and darned if I don't. Practice, practice, practice became my mantra early on. I leaned heavily into the Serenity Prayer when I was new and really focused on the 3 elements of it. Right, wrong or indifferent I came to believe that since the outcome was negative whether I said Yes or No in situations like this, I'd rather endure the reactions to the No response than contribute to the insanity of the disease or enable any longer. As I worked to define and enforce my boundaries, it did get worse before it got better.
The disease does progress and therefore so does the antics, actions and reactions. I figured the only way I could possibly affect any change was by modifying what I was doing, saying, etc. When I was able to be consistent in my boundaries and hold firm, slowly they came to realize I was changing. While they did not like it and often got nasty, in time they stopped asking as they knew the answer. In the long run, the exchanges that were so frustrating and crazy ceased as I no longer engaged.
I did leave the room often. I bit my tongue hard and long while starting out. Others who came before me would say they are just words coming from the mouth of a sick person. I was reminded to Not Take it Personally (QTIP - Quit....). All of this helped me to just be the bigger person in the room and step away from the insanity/chaos of this disease. It was not easy and without meetings, sponsor and fellowship, I suspect I would have struggled more than I did.
It took me tons of time in recovery to be able to self-advocate without blame. It took me a long while to realize also that expecting my spouse to complete me or understand me was next to impossible because of this disease. The steps helped me realize I needed to find my joy, esteem and peace within and trust in a power greater than me to clear a path to a new way. For me, the first 3 steps helped me see that I would rather be happy than be right and peace for me was not possible until I literally surrendered that this disease has more power than me.
Keep coming back and know that you are growing, learning and changing. We are all about progress and not perfection, and you aren't alone! (((Hugs)))
SerenityRUS said
Dec 14, 2017
When I was brand new in program someone suggested detaching and while the end goal is to detach with love sometimes just detaching has to be good enough. It's lots of practice .. it's still not easy. The one thing about detaching was recognizing someone else's behavior wasn't about me. It was strictly about them. When I stopped taking things so personally it was easier to say just not about me and letting that go was easier and my version of detaching with love. So be easy on yourself .. it is difficult to understand sanity in an insane situation. Many hugs .. s :)
jtpickle said
Dec 14, 2017
I wish I had experience or something to share with you but I don't; all I can tell you is it sounds like you are living my life. Although my AH doesn't need me to get him to the store or get the alcohol. He does that himself throughout the day. But the evenings are horrible. I start to have anxiety as the day goes on knowing he will be home soon from work. This disease has really progressed in the last few months. This week has been a blessing as there have been many holiday parties and people in the office from out of town which keeps him there until 9 or 10 at night. Yesterday was lovely as he didn't get home until midnight and I could have peace! I had also asked him not to wake me up and to sleep in another room which he did. ;)
Just know I'm thinking of you and following your posts.
Mattie said
Dec 14, 2017
I'm so sorry you are going through this.
In my view of things, there are two separate things you're talking about: detaching, and boundaries. I think of detaching as more an emotional thing. When they get upset and volatile, we tend to "catch" that upsetness, like catching the flu, and get upset too. Detaching is about living our own emotional lives which are not buffeted about by all their changing emotions. So they might erupt into anger and we might say to ourselves, "Whoa, this is getting crazy, I need to protect myself here and not let this get to me." So we follow through with whatever plans we've made for ourselves if this kind of thing happens: going into another room, or leaving to go stay with a friend, or turning on the TV and getting lost in our favorite program, or whatever helps us stay calm and centered.
Then there are boundaries, which are the practical/physical part of the equation. So your boundary might be that you won't stand for being yelled at. That doesn't mean that you tell him to stop yelling at you - because if we could control other people, none of this would have happened in the first place! So boundaries are for our own actions, not their actions. So if he started yelling, you might have done the things in your plan: gone into another room, or to a friend's house, or whatever. The boundaries are the practical part, the detaching is not letting your emotions get all shaken up for the rest of the day. (Of course it's natural to get a little bit irked or exasperated.)
As I learned to deal with my A, I practiced being authentic in my words, as I understand you were being. It doesn't really work to have any kind of intelligent conversation when an A is drunk, so being authentic then is just for you. When he was more sober, I would try "Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean." So he would say "Why won't you come to the fair with me?" and I'd say, "I'm too worried that drinking is going to happen, and I don't like that, so I've decided not to come." If he'd say, "I can't believe you're on about the drinking again! You're paranoid! You're always so suspicious! Why can't you just relax! You have some kind of problem!", I'd say, "I'm just worried about the drinking so that's what I'm going to do." I tried to draw a boundary on him drawing me into his emotions.
The thing that was the key for me is that words don't really convey everything we mean. If we say, "I can't stand it when you yell at me like that," but you stay in the room, the secret message is, "But I can stand it enough to stick around for it." Not that we should get into a big fight about it. We can just leave quietly, in the way that will cause the least pushback. As you've seen, telling someone to stop yelling doesn't stop them, unfortunately. They often just get angrier. But if they see that we won't stick around for it, that's a real boundary. So then the question we have to ask ourselves is: how much am I actually willing to put up with? Is the relationship good enough that I'll put up with the yelling? Sometimes the only way for the yelling to stop is for us to leave the yelling.
If there is any possibility that your A may become violent, do be very cautious. The National Domestic Violence Hotline is at http://www.thehotline.org/, 18007997233, and they have many suggestions on how to get out of violent situations. It sounds as if your A has come to a point in his alcoholism where he is getting angrier and more dangerous. Don't take any risks. You're too valuable for that. I hope you can find a good meeting and a sponsor if you haven't already, get the knowledge and the tools, and take good care of yourself.
Jerry F said
Dec 14, 2017
In my culture so very often we express metaphorically...in pictures which makes understanding easier and more comfortable. I was a slow learner when I was young and when that upset my parents and teachers and they would ask me..."what do we have to do...draw you a picture" I could have replied..."yes PLEASE!!". The detachment metaphor i used in program was of me standing back from the problem...beyond just arms length and listening with my eyes as well as my ears...watching what was going on and listening not only to what was being said and how it was being said. I was standing back so what was going on had less of a facility of drawing me in and holding me or capturing me in hurtful situations. Picture that. Standing back allowed me time...I could turn away from the situation and then turn back when I wanted and I could be expressive without being over powering...My culture has principles just as our program has which are compatible and I love living within the principles. They are kinder and more accommodating of mutual love and understanding which I try to keep in the center of my recovery. Keep coming back. ((((hugs))))
Aline said
Dec 14, 2017
I love the standing back image, Jerry... Thank you for sharing.
Elabella said
Dec 15, 2017
Thank you all for your shares. I have lots to learn yet. Today has been a bad day. From the morning, AH has been in a very aggressive mindset. Just in a really strange mood- complaining about everything and anything. So, detaching with love I kept myself busy around the house while listening to music on headphones- to not have to listen to his nonstop commentary on everything. Making fun of people, cutting up people on the tv(!), with his usual peppering of cussing. It's so stressful for me to listen to it- so headphones it was. I told him I had to leave at a specific time to go to my parents house to pickup some items I have stored in their crawl space. I knew he had to go shopping and like I've mentioned before, I'm the sole driver of the car. Well, as per usual he took forever to get ready as I'm waiting in the car. It was getting to the point of me probably being late for the time I had setup with my parents. He ALWAYS does this. So I called him, and calmly reminded him that I had plans. He finally came to the car and so we left to go shopping for groceries. I didn't speak the entire way because he just kept it up with the complaining- cussing out drivers on the road, traffic, etc. Long story short- it ended up with him having a complete rage fuelled meltdown. He jumped out of the car and I left. I just left. Drove to my parents who live 30 minutes away. The entire time texts and phone calls from him. Cursing me. Threatening me. He called their house many times. Just complete insanity. When I answered their phone he was yelling that he would call the police on my father, that he should've punched him out when he had the chance. So I turned off the phone. I came home a few hours later and he had one of our friends over. Of course in front of him he was completely composed. Charming. Then the friend left. I've been calm and detached but he is just picking and picking and picking. I finally left the room to go to our bedroom and he keeps texting me. Cursing. Threatening. I'm at the point that I don't want this- I do not want to be with him. I can't take this. I don't care if he is sick. He obviously is well enough to know how to act normally with his friend here. I don't believe for a second otherwise. He's taunting me to call the police. The thing is- sure I can just get out , grab our daughter (whose in her room oblivious to what's going on) and go. But why is it ME that has to leave??? I want him out! I'm done. I cannot fathom living another minute in this insanity. So I'm left sitting in our bedroom like an idiot while he has complete run of the rest of the house with his music, his sports on tv, all the while cooking dinner. And the entire time he's texting me. This is complete insanity. I'm really really trying to detach but it's just eating me up. I feel like I'm being put through the ultimate test here. I know that- right this moment- I do not want to be with this man anymore. So, what to do? There's no talking to him because he's a raging bull when he even sees me. Ugh. Why? Why God- why?? I'm just asking for your prayers and some support. Thank you for letting me vent. Why does life have to be so hard?
jtpickle said
Dec 15, 2017
(((Hugs))) & Prayers Sorry you have to be going through this.......
Aline said
Dec 15, 2017
I'm so sorry for the insanity you are experiencing right now... I've been there, too... Sending prayers for you, your daughter and your AH. Please stay safe and take care. Hugs, ((((((Elabella))))))
Iamhere said
Dec 15, 2017
I too am sending prayers and positive thoughts your way Ellabella....so sorry for the insanity of the disease. I actually put a lock on the bedroom door when things were terrifying here. Do stay safe and know we're here as best we can be...
el-cee said
Dec 15, 2017
He's abusing you. This is abuse. Hes a bully. What would you tell a friend to do thats being abused? Alcoholism is not an excuse. I've called the police on my alcoholic . It was the right thing to do. I have a right to feel safe just like anyone else and this type of abuse is the clever type that we put up with longer because we don't recognise it as abuse because its not an outright punch but the damage here is great. Ive been where you are and it got worse and worse until i felt i had no choice but to call the police. I hope you get to meetings and get the phone numbers of alanon people. Itá too much for most of us.
mamalioness said
Dec 15, 2017
Thank you el-cee for saying what I was just gonna say here....this IS ABUSE and I agree...He is a bully.....I don't buy into the "devil-alcohol made me do it" my 2nd EX NEVER abused me, first one did...An abuser is an abuser..booze only brings it out...MANY alcoholics never be abusive..they just get drunk and slowly kill themselves w/out taking out people around them, My 2nd was like that..A sweet guy, gentle, I left him because I did not want to watch the addiction kill him........
there is NEVER excuse for abuse , I called the police on AH#1 twice!! ....He was a bully...Cops brought him up short the 2nd time because they didnt' like a bully, apparently..I felt a sense of justice when I saw them very roughly shove him in their car to take him out of our home..The police told me about a DV shelter in our city and they (DV shelter) even sent us a counselor and offered me a place to run to if I needed it....I wanted to get help with more counselling sessions but he did not..He said the problem was ME, not him and he said this in front of the counselor, ....the counselor told me flat out that the problem was not me, it was HIM and he wasn't shy about letting AH#1 know, it was HIM......
It took a bit more abuse and bullying for me to finally get a belly full and leave and I got some counselling from a very good psychology nurse who was great..The DV shelter people helped me get a lot of sessions with this counselor..The city paid for my sessions......Do you have a DV shelter near you??? I would find out and talk to someone...They helped me big time.............
and I agree abuse comes in many packages, but the damage is just as bad....abuse is abuse....and EllaBella, this is your life, your mental and physical health and I do hope you remember that unless this guy gets help, the abuse will escalate..it nearly 100% does, mine did, and many others I met at meets and on line did too....I would up my meets, get a sponsor, and like el-cee wisely posted above, here, get phone numbers of alanon people who can be allies....If your daughter was going through this, what would you tell her????? I always think, "would I want my kid to suffer this???" and if the answer is "hell no" then why accept it for me??? Just saying...I wish you good luck on this...
Maresie said
Dec 15, 2017
It's likje you are working at the fire station first day on.the job. I think.the best end of detachment is the ability to stop taking it personally. I still deal with obnoxious people. Whatever they do or say I refuse to take it personally. I also refuse to take on.I have anything to do with it personally.
You can ask anyone to be your sponsor. It helps to know them and something about their program. I had a number of sponsors all of them immensely helpful.
One key issue in the program is to stop being hard on yourself.
Dealing with an alcoholic is hard enough. All the suggestions in the program are suggestions not maxims. Whatever you are doing is fantastic. You are seeking help and being aware. All of that is incredible.
I no longer judge my program by the quality of my ability to use the tools. I judge my program by the quality if my life. Like You I really struggled with detaching what I can tell you is it is worth it to practice practice practice. Detaching pays off hugely in the end. Be patient with yourself.
Maresi
Elabella said
Dec 15, 2017
Thank you all. I know this is abuse to the nth degree. But I also know it's not him- I've been with him almost 30 years and he never abused me until the last 3 years or so. His drinking has increased in the same timeframe- from beers in the evening after work to round the clock beers and brandy. Literally from getting up in the morning til passing out at night- 365 days a year. His personality has changed drastically. It is the alcohol. I would've witnessed this otherwise over the many years. He never, ever called me names or anything. We actually barely fought? It's depressing. I told him yesterday that he needs to go to rehab- that what he's doing is a slow, painful suicide. I know I shouldn't have said it- but I thought if I drop the bug in his ear then maybe- just maybe, something might stick? This is probably why his mood was off today. I'm really trying to be a loving, supporting spouse. If I were mentally ill I wouldn't want him to abandon me. I'm looking at it from that perspective. its such a crazy disease. How is it possible, even from my side- to go from pure hatred to pure love in a short amount of time? All I know for sure is I don't wish this on anyone. I feel for all of us on these boards. Thanks again for your love and light....
mamalioness said
Dec 15, 2017
Dear Elabella...I heard a saying!! When one is sick and tired of being sick and tired, they will take appropriate action to take care of themselves....and yea, he may not have been abusive at first, but the alcohol is CHANGING him....I have two A brothers and I can tell you...This stuff, unless they arrest it, get help, dry out, go to AA, they CHANGE and it isnt' for the good....so 3 years of abuse?? it is still abuse...It is still being a bully...the situation has changed now...Maybe if I had stayed with my gentle AH#2, I could have experienced abuse, who knows??
I wish you the absolute BEST of luck on this...You got good ESH here, and My prayer is that you go to as many meets as there are days, get a sponsor and work the steps, if you want to stay with him?? Fine, but you NEED Al-anon and ALL its parts to survive this...Trust me, I am talking from experience..you need Al-anon and ALL of its components if you expect to survive his disease without going nuts yourself, because its gonna get worse if he does not get help and you're not gonna be able to cope without this program......I'm not telling you what to do, it isn't my life but I CAN say from experience that I wish to God I knew about this program sooner then when I did..I wouldn't have lost so many years of my life to my own disease from being with these very very sick people.....
Peace be with you....
Elabella said
Dec 15, 2017
Thank you mamalioness- I know, 3 years us a long time to be dealing with crappy behaviour. Luckily it's not an everyday occurrence. Daily meetings are not a possibility for me- I can attend 1 maybe 2 face to face meetings a week. But I am on these boards daily! Reading over everyone's posts and taking some wisdom from everyone. I hope to get a sponsor soon too. I'm ready for this program!! Thank you again for your care and concern.
mamalioness said
Dec 15, 2017
Elabella, online meets are my thing now as meets dried up here....AND , forgot to mention this...I get on line and find FANTASTIC stuff on the steps...worksheets and all..to work the steps....there is a bunch of 12 steps literature On line and its FREE....my 12 steps workbooks?? the better ones?? I found on line...Just thought i would toss that in to help you....they have online meets here on this board and they are awesome...every day they got them....you get on main site, here and you can find them....Hope one of the mods sees this post to you and weighs in on the meets.....ONE DAY AT A TIME!!!!
I sense you want this marriage to work real bad and I get it...I even see you kinda not defending him, but minimizing his behavior???
You said--- "luckily it's not an everyday occurrence" I did this...I minimized my AH#1, ONE incident of abuse is bad...TWO is worse...THREE is a pattern that is morphing into something that will get worse and worse if not arrested......Please take care of you...You deserve to be happy and safe and mentally healthy....You deserve it!!!! I do hope you reach out and GRAB that happier life that you deserve...I wish i rememberd the links to all the gr8 stuff I found re: the steps on line, but if you google 12 steps worksheets or just surf around, you will find gr8 stuff.......JUST saying....
el-cee said
Dec 16, 2017
Good for you. Your working this already. It wont be too long until your free of this and a lot of people get free and dont necessarily break up. Alanon gives you the solution. For me i got tools that dealt with so many issues at once. I got some self esteem and self awareness. I was able to look my own part like i found out i was stuck in a habit of playing out roles over and over. I played the martyr role taking on all responsilities for all familu members and i learned they didnt belong to me and were hurting my family. I played the victim role because i truly believed i was a victim and in irder for me not to be a victim everyone else had to behave. This was a major incorrect belief. I always had the power to not be a victim. I had so many choices i couldnt see. I got free through awareness of self. You can do this and your life abd that of ypur whole family will improve. Its gonestly amazing to me when i look back and see the changes.
Maresie said
Dec 16, 2017
One reason we work.at detachment is to be able to step back look.at our options
One really good tool in.al.anon.is to make a plan b. If you are to leave what do you need. Of course one option is for him t8 leave of course. Look.at all the options don't act on m8nd them. Consult an attorney the initial meetings free. .
My plan b was very rudimentary. The simple act of making it
Hey Elabella, sounds like he is getting deep into the disease and trust me, if he doesn't go to rehab and AA, it WILL get worse...he is beginning to have the signs where the disease eats his capability to be rational.....it will keep on getting worse till he gets help..in the meantime, you just take care of you...leave him to his own devices....thats what I would do....just take your hands OFF anything regarding him, and focus on you....and no..sponsor can be a recovery mate...i found one of mine on line in a group..not this MIP community but an old CoDa site I was on....but yea, any trusted recovery person whom you can resonate with, I say face to face because if crisis strikes, its good to have someone you can call and maybe meet at a coffee house to chat strategy......but yea, at the meetings, you meet healthier people who can be great allies in times like this.....I like what hotrod says about if you make a "beer run" establish the time you leave for that run and take him... doesn't he have a car to drive himself?? or was he drinking when he asked you to drive??? I think from now on, I would just leave him to his own devices , be cool, polite, but definitely establish your own boundaries/space ....
Its clear by your posts, you are not happy where you are at now...so where do you want to be in 1 year??? 5 years???? this is what Al-anon will help you with..some folks stay with their alcoholics and they "tough it out" till the end....a lot of them leave, like I did because it is too high maintenance and too much hassle and stress and I was burned out...done...I wanted my peace at any price......yea, it was tough at first, relying only on me, but at night?/ OMG..the PEACE....No burning stuff on the stove....no puking in the bathroom, "driving the porcelean bus" or "bowl hugging" sick and often missing the bowl.....GROSS!!!! burned me out because his aim was not that good....talking , yelling at the TV and the dogs......he was nice to me, but a royal pain in the ass when drunk.....busted a lot of my good , clear glass dishes, i had to toss them and start over on my collection to build up two cute sets now...burning my skillets and pots and pans.....it was horrible....and he was NICE to me!!! the wrecked holidays because he was too plastered and we ended up staying home....having to "come get him" at this bar and that bar because he was too drunk to drive the truck....at least , and I say he at least learned his lesson...ONE driving drunk violation and he never drove drunk again, so I have to give him credit, but yea, I had to get up...drive to the bar, get him..come back the next day to get the truck....on a work day??? I would hang up on him after I told him to either walk or hitchhike, I gotta get up early and I am not getting out of bed to pick him up when I gotta work the next day....oh yea, REAL fun life!!!! he flat out refused to go to AA...I wanted Al-anon for me..AA for him...He flat out refused...I told him on a certain date if we weren't in recovery, he was moving out...End of story....It was May..I packed up his stuff and he toted it to the base where he could stay...Not long after, he found a female drinking partner and he shacked up with her and I think, after our divorce, married her so they could "party harty" together....I wish him well, but I would never do it again...Marry or even date an addict....But you have to find out, through program, what is your best way to "do life" I am not gonna say (I CANT tell you what to do) Its not my place or my right, YOU have to find out through program work, what is your best path...Only you can decide that....
If you want to stay, I would go to the meets, and be-friend another gal who chooses to stay and get her esh on how do you live with this disease w/out going nuts....program and sharing and caring with others will help you find yourself and help you make better decisions with the rest of your life......
I do wish good luck at the meets and in finding recovery partners and/or sponsor to work the steps with and just getting a firm grasp on what YOU want, and what YOU need and whats YOUR good path to be on....program literally saved my life and my sanity......I grew up with this crap so long history but that is past......I see you are open to learning and thinking and wanting to be in a better place......Bless you and trust me, you are not alone......
((((Elabella)))) you are still a newbie and there is so much more to learn and experience. Most of us here have lots and lots of time in recovery and while we have gone thru what you are going thru now we did it over and over until we took the suggestions of meetings, meetings, meetings, steps and traditions, sponsorships and more. Many of us have learned to assimilate the program so that it is now second nature to us. We speak Alaneese and think in that language also and we had to start somewhere and then work it because that is how it works. I had to drop so many old perceptions that didn't and wouldn't work and then finally adopted the thought force that if I did what the old timers did I would get what they had and that is the reality I hang on to and it works when I work it.
One simple response to my alcoholic wanting me to drink with her or get it for her was a very simple two letter sentence..."No" said calmly like HotRod mentions...don't say it mean. I use to go out into the garage or yard and practice that until I got it a habit. That didn't stop her from drinking and using it stopped me from participating with resentments and angers and such. I was told that "No" is a complete sentence and it is. Try it...good luck and I am still in support. ((((hugs))))
I hope you won't be hard on yourself, detachment is really hard and it takes time, and you are beginning to work on yourself and that is great, the program works if we work it. I know I tend to be too hard on myself almost all the time, and that's something I clearly need to work on...
I can share that I used to buy my ex-abf beers all the time for years, and I know my motives were not healthy, but at the time this was the only way I knew how to protect myself. In the beginning when I didn't understand that he was an alcoholic I thought I was being helpful... Buying alcohol for both of us and then just for him became a habit that I grew to resent and hate fervently (and by extension, I began to hate and resent myself), but by that time I was so afraid of his reaction if I refused to continue and I also wanted to avoid conflict, really this was based on fear... And in fact at first when I finally found the guts to say no, buy your own booze, I'm not doing it anymore, I'm done helping to destroy your health, it really was terrible and scary and pretty traumatic to me, he was angry, blaming, shouting, I would call those tantrums except that a grown man was doing it, and that was his disease fighting against the inconvenience of my actions... It was bad and scary, but after a while he saw I meant it, that I would not under any circumstance buy booze anymore, and - things got better for me, and maybe also for him. Now, no matter how hungover or drunk he was, he knew he had to get to the shop himself...
After a long time I finally learned there's no avoiding conflict, whatever I do, active alcoholics can blame and shame, and there's nothing at all I could do to prevent that from happening except do my best to not get caught up... There was a time when I really was a doormat, but that didn't stop the alcoholic from blaming me... I thought it would, and if it would, I might have stayed a doormat, but that's not what happened. I'm glad - I don't want to be a doormat anymore, even a happy doormat, lol.
This is my experience, please take what you like and leave the rest. Hugs, (((((Elabella)))), I encourage you to continue with f2f meetings, and keep coming back. Know that you are not alone!!!
-- Edited by Aline on Thursday 14th of December 2017 04:17:43 AM
The disease does progress and therefore so does the antics, actions and reactions. I figured the only way I could possibly affect any change was by modifying what I was doing, saying, etc. When I was able to be consistent in my boundaries and hold firm, slowly they came to realize I was changing. While they did not like it and often got nasty, in time they stopped asking as they knew the answer. In the long run, the exchanges that were so frustrating and crazy ceased as I no longer engaged.
I did leave the room often. I bit my tongue hard and long while starting out. Others who came before me would say they are just words coming from the mouth of a sick person. I was reminded to Not Take it Personally (QTIP - Quit....). All of this helped me to just be the bigger person in the room and step away from the insanity/chaos of this disease. It was not easy and without meetings, sponsor and fellowship, I suspect I would have struggled more than I did.
It took me tons of time in recovery to be able to self-advocate without blame. It took me a long while to realize also that expecting my spouse to complete me or understand me was next to impossible because of this disease. The steps helped me realize I needed to find my joy, esteem and peace within and trust in a power greater than me to clear a path to a new way. For me, the first 3 steps helped me see that I would rather be happy than be right and peace for me was not possible until I literally surrendered that this disease has more power than me.
Keep coming back and know that you are growing, learning and changing. We are all about progress and not perfection, and you aren't alone! (((Hugs)))
I wish I had experience or something to share with you but I don't; all I can tell you is it sounds like you are living my life. Although my AH doesn't need me to get him to the store or get the alcohol. He does that himself throughout the day. But the evenings are horrible. I start to have anxiety as the day goes on knowing he will be home soon from work. This disease has really progressed in the last few months. This week has been a blessing as there have been many holiday parties and people in the office from out of town which keeps him there until 9 or 10 at night. Yesterday was lovely as he didn't get home until midnight and I could have peace! I had also asked him not to wake me up and to sleep in another room which he did. ;)
Just know I'm thinking of you and following your posts.
I'm so sorry you are going through this.
In my view of things, there are two separate things you're talking about: detaching, and boundaries. I think of detaching as more an emotional thing. When they get upset and volatile, we tend to "catch" that upsetness, like catching the flu, and get upset too. Detaching is about living our own emotional lives which are not buffeted about by all their changing emotions. So they might erupt into anger and we might say to ourselves, "Whoa, this is getting crazy, I need to protect myself here and not let this get to me." So we follow through with whatever plans we've made for ourselves if this kind of thing happens: going into another room, or leaving to go stay with a friend, or turning on the TV and getting lost in our favorite program, or whatever helps us stay calm and centered.
Then there are boundaries, which are the practical/physical part of the equation. So your boundary might be that you won't stand for being yelled at. That doesn't mean that you tell him to stop yelling at you - because if we could control other people, none of this would have happened in the first place! So boundaries are for our own actions, not their actions. So if he started yelling, you might have done the things in your plan: gone into another room, or to a friend's house, or whatever. The boundaries are the practical part, the detaching is not letting your emotions get all shaken up for the rest of the day. (Of course it's natural to get a little bit irked or exasperated.)
As I learned to deal with my A, I practiced being authentic in my words, as I understand you were being. It doesn't really work to have any kind of intelligent conversation when an A is drunk, so being authentic then is just for you. When he was more sober, I would try "Say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean." So he would say "Why won't you come to the fair with me?" and I'd say, "I'm too worried that drinking is going to happen, and I don't like that, so I've decided not to come." If he'd say, "I can't believe you're on about the drinking again! You're paranoid! You're always so suspicious! Why can't you just relax! You have some kind of problem!", I'd say, "I'm just worried about the drinking so that's what I'm going to do." I tried to draw a boundary on him drawing me into his emotions.
The thing that was the key for me is that words don't really convey everything we mean. If we say, "I can't stand it when you yell at me like that," but you stay in the room, the secret message is, "But I can stand it enough to stick around for it." Not that we should get into a big fight about it. We can just leave quietly, in the way that will cause the least pushback. As you've seen, telling someone to stop yelling doesn't stop them, unfortunately. They often just get angrier. But if they see that we won't stick around for it, that's a real boundary. So then the question we have to ask ourselves is: how much am I actually willing to put up with? Is the relationship good enough that I'll put up with the yelling? Sometimes the only way for the yelling to stop is for us to leave the yelling.
If there is any possibility that your A may become violent, do be very cautious. The National Domestic Violence Hotline is at http://www.thehotline.org/, 18007997233, and they have many suggestions on how to get out of violent situations. It sounds as if your A has come to a point in his alcoholism where he is getting angrier and more dangerous. Don't take any risks. You're too valuable for that. I hope you can find a good meeting and a sponsor if you haven't already, get the knowledge and the tools, and take good care of yourself.
In my culture so very often we express metaphorically...in pictures which makes understanding easier and more comfortable. I was a slow learner when I was young and when that upset my parents and teachers and they would ask me..."what do we have to do...draw you a picture" I could have replied..."yes PLEASE!!". The detachment metaphor i used in program was of me standing back from the problem...beyond just arms length and listening with my eyes as well as my ears...watching what was going on and listening not only to what was being said and how it was being said. I was standing back so what was going on had less of a facility of drawing me in and holding me or capturing me in hurtful situations. Picture that. Standing back allowed me time...I could turn away from the situation and then turn back when I wanted and I could be expressive without being over powering...My culture has principles just as our program has which are compatible and I love living within the principles. They are kinder and more accommodating of mutual love and understanding which I try to keep in the center of my recovery. Keep coming back. ((((hugs))))
there is NEVER excuse for abuse , I called the police on AH#1 twice!! ....He was a bully...Cops brought him up short the 2nd time because they didnt' like a bully, apparently..I felt a sense of justice when I saw them very roughly shove him in their car to take him out of our home..The police told me about a DV shelter in our city and they (DV shelter) even sent us a counselor and offered me a place to run to if I needed it....I wanted to get help with more counselling sessions but he did not..He said the problem was ME, not him and he said this in front of the counselor, ....the counselor told me flat out that the problem was not me, it was HIM and he wasn't shy about letting AH#1 know, it was HIM......
It took a bit more abuse and bullying for me to finally get a belly full and leave and I got some counselling from a very good psychology nurse who was great..The DV shelter people helped me get a lot of sessions with this counselor..The city paid for my sessions......Do you have a DV shelter near you??? I would find out and talk to someone...They helped me big time.............
and I agree abuse comes in many packages, but the damage is just as bad....abuse is abuse....and EllaBella, this is your life, your mental and physical health and I do hope you remember that unless this guy gets help, the abuse will escalate..it nearly 100% does, mine did, and many others I met at meets and on line did too....I would up my meets, get a sponsor, and like el-cee wisely posted above, here, get phone numbers of alanon people who can be allies....If your daughter was going through this, what would you tell her????? I always think, "would I want my kid to suffer this???" and if the answer is "hell no" then why accept it for me??? Just saying...I wish you good luck on this...
It's likje you are working at the fire station first day on.the job. I think.the best end of detachment is the ability to stop taking it personally. I still deal with obnoxious people. Whatever they do or say I refuse to take it personally. I also refuse to take on.I have anything to do with it personally.
You can ask anyone to be your sponsor. It helps to know them and something about their program. I had a number of sponsors all of them immensely helpful.
One key issue in the program is to stop being hard on yourself.
Dealing with an alcoholic is hard enough. All the suggestions in the program are suggestions not maxims. Whatever you are doing is fantastic. You are seeking help and being aware. All of that is incredible.
I no longer judge my program by the quality of my ability to use the tools. I judge my program by the quality if my life. Like You I really struggled with detaching what I can tell you is it is worth it to practice practice practice. Detaching pays off hugely in the end. Be patient with yourself.
Maresi
I wish you the absolute BEST of luck on this...You got good ESH here, and My prayer is that you go to as many meets as there are days, get a sponsor and work the steps, if you want to stay with him?? Fine, but you NEED Al-anon and ALL its parts to survive this...Trust me, I am talking from experience..you need Al-anon and ALL of its components if you expect to survive his disease without going nuts yourself, because its gonna get worse if he does not get help and you're not gonna be able to cope without this program......I'm not telling you what to do, it isn't my life but I CAN say from experience that I wish to God I knew about this program sooner then when I did..I wouldn't have lost so many years of my life to my own disease from being with these very very sick people.....
Peace be with you....
I sense you want this marriage to work real bad and I get it...I even see you kinda not defending him, but minimizing his behavior???
You said--- "luckily it's not an everyday occurrence" I did this...I minimized my AH#1, ONE incident of abuse is bad...TWO is worse...THREE is a pattern that is morphing into something that will get worse and worse if not arrested......Please take care of you...You deserve to be happy and safe and mentally healthy....You deserve it!!!! I do hope you reach out and GRAB that happier life that you deserve...I wish i rememberd the links to all the gr8 stuff I found re: the steps on line, but if you google 12 steps worksheets or just surf around, you will find gr8 stuff.......JUST saying....
One reason we work.at detachment is to be able to step back look.at our options
One really good tool in.al.anon.is to make a plan b. If you are to leave what do you need. Of course one option is for him t8 leave of course. Look.at all the options don't act on m8nd them. Consult an attorney the initial meetings free. .
My plan b was very rudimentary. The simple act of making it
Helped
Maresie