I'm really struggling with understanding how none of this is personal to me. On one hand I completely get it - my husband recognizes everything that is on the line. I believe that he loves us and our life and doesn't want to lose it. So the only rationale explanation for his continued addiction(s) is that it's a disease that he can't, yet, control. I really do try to believe that it's not personal to me/us. That it wasn't any combination of our life experiences that that caused this to happen. I used to spend my time like a hamster in a wheel trying to figure out what I could do to make things better - what I could do to make life easier for him thus making him less likely to relying on the drugs and alcohol. Over time that's morphed to a complete understanding that nothing I say do or don't say don't do makes any sort of difference - positively or negatively. I am grateful that I came to recognize and believe that because that was quite exhausting. Nonetheless - I'm still left feeling like how can this not be personal. I mean - yesterday, for example, we had a calm conversation about his using. It had been clear to me that he's been using - though each time he tells me I'm crazy that he's NOT using and I'm just looking for things that aren't there. I'm beyond giving what he says any merit .... the only thing I can trust at this point in my own gut. I chose yesterday morning to talk to him because he was sober. He doesn't have much to say other then apologize - for the most part anyhow. He looked up a meeting and said while I was with our daughter at sports he would attend a meeting (he dabbles in his meetings. he just finished an out patient program and was forced into their 1x weekly group due to insurance caps). Later that evening it seemed to me he'd been using. I checked his phone (I know - I shouldn't but it's my only tool for validating what's going on - for being able to see for myself the truth since he won't tell me. Not only had he met his dealer yesterday he used going out for a meeting as an excuse to get out w/out raising any flags. I mean - this wasn't really a surprise to me - it's not the first time he's done this.
How do I get my intellectual understanding to see eye to eye with how I FEEL?
hotrod said
Dec 11, 2017
Attend alanon face to face metings. Work the Steps especially 4 through 11 and read the literature You are not alone I too had diffiulity with the disease concept until one day I arived at acceptance of the facts of this concept .
Jerry F said
Dec 11, 2017
KayS it also took me a long time to get humble and just accept what the fellowship was sharing and talking about with their own experiences. Before that I just didn't get it which resulted in two trips into the program before I just stopped fighting it and trying to figure it out. When I got to the point where I just "acted as if" and "accepted what others had also accepted" my mind, body, spirit and emotions calmed down and I could hear the lessons and take one step after another. "Acting as if" was power recovery...I was acting which led me to the reality also. I also went to college on the disease (yes I did) and stayed close to the American Medical Association's lessons and guidance. I memorized the guidance statement at the end of our meetings as though it was made just for me and I still work it...."If you keep and OPEN MIND ...you will find help"...I stopped Judging and criticizing and thinking I had or should have had the solutions on my own accord...I got my ego out of the mix. The AMA told us that alcohol and drug were mind and mood altering chemicals and I came to understand what our "Normal" was when seeing how we lived...it was insane. I learned to not take it personally and that I was just one member of a would wide fellowship of family members who's lives had been victimized by addiction. I killed my expectations of having life in a way that alcohol and drugs could not and would not support and I kept going on with the suggestions I was getting from the fellowship just as we are doing here. Keep your inner voice out of the what is this about conversation with your self ...listen to the old timers and your sponsor and the literature from both program and keep coming here often sharing what you have come to understand. ((((hugs))))
Iamhere said
Dec 11, 2017
KayS - I too took a long time to surrender and truly accept that I was powerless over this disease and those with it. The meetings suggested above were my safe place to go and learn more about what I could do to heal and deal. Trying to understand this disease in others was an impossible task for me, yet acceptance came with practice and time.
I know now that I will never understand what motivates another. That, for me reaches beyond this disease. What is best for my recovery is to work on keeping the focus on me through recovery and talking with others in recovery who truly understand.
I'm sorry for the confusion and the uncertainty this disease brings. It does get easier to deal with in recovery. Keep coming back!
Maresie said
Dec 11, 2017
Well it is a boundary issue. You can choose to take it personally or you can see he is doing plenty to himself too
I know many alcoholics who never acknowledge they destroyed their relationships. They simply blame others.
Living around an alcohol8c it is pretty common to believe you can have somne effect on them. In truth an alcoholic drinks whatever the circumstances
The irony is when you surrender to the fact this illness is pervasive things change. The alcoholic may not stop.drinking but you stop.thinking his alcoholism is a reflection on you.
I hope you will be nice to yourself g8ve yoursellf a reprieve.
This program is a very hard one. I balked at every.element of it. When I.couldnt stand the pain I gave some suggestions a chance.
The ex A never changed one iota. How I felt about his alcoholism changed dramatically. I was severely depressed and even suicidal at times. I felt worn down to nothing
I spent a lot of time on the chat room here and got a big reprieve from the torrents if self hatred I showered on myself. I got a sponsor and took suggestions under fire .
Maresie
SerenityRUS said
Dec 12, 2017
Hugs and welcome again,
My feelings are neither good nor bad however they are also what blinds me or I think binds me to the current situation whatever that is, the reality is nothing I say or do will make an addict see the right or wrong of their ways .. that is not my journey. My journey is to figure out what I want.
My childhood was spent with a LOT of gaslighting going on being told what I felt and what I saw was not happening. So as an adult I am really sensitive to that side of things do not tell me what see or feel in terms of what's going on .. I am me and I am in my own truth of my situation.
I say honor your feelings of what you see and allow yourself to grieve what you see because it is sad. It is sad to let go of the expectation of what I thought was someone who was not if that makes any sense .. so yes .. it is sad.
As far as the snooping ... I would ask what are you getting out of that? If you are snooping for validation .. it's going to be what it is .. the God of my understanding always revealed to me what I needed to know when I was prepared to handle it. If I snooped got the information then what was I going to do with it. Cry me a river after all the he did me wrongs or make a decision that I wasn't prepared to make. After I came to the realization I caused my own pain a LOT of it on my own, I was better able to accept if I snooped it was on me what I found out because I was inflicting my own will into the situation.
For me having a sponsor when I had those urges helped me a great deal because I was better able to figure out what I was doing and how I was hurting me, and ironically I see it as giving my XAH a way out of having to be responsible for his actions after all who's the bigger sinner so to speak .. him for doing his deal or me for invading his privacy. Do note had he done that to me all hell would have broken loose so that was my part of the deal.
DO keep coming back .. you deserve peace and serenity in regards to finding your own way. He's going to do what he's going to do .. the bigger question is what are you going to do? I find taking care of me is a far better way to go. In my X's case that means a lot of court for him because he chooses not to go the easy way.
Big hugs,
S :)
el-cee said
Dec 12, 2017
What if you this is just plain unacceptable to you and thats that. You may be trying to rationalise and intellectualise the facts so that you can feel comfortable with his addiction. Ive tried that too and ive tried really hard because its my son and the alternative is hard.
For me though the alternative is the right thing for all concerned. The alternative is not accepting unacceptable behaviour and active drinking is unacceptable to me and its simple but it means facing hard truths and taking the hard actions. For me i kind of feel that taking action someday will mean my son is homeless and that is a big fear for me but just because its a big fear for me doesn't mean its not right. My son living with me doesn't work, he drinks and drinks and it gets worse, he tells me whatever he thinks i want to hear and all the while he gets sicker and so do I. So the right thing is to not have my son living with me. So homelessness may be the right thing for my son and just because i cant face it doesnt mean its not the right thing. Not sure if this is making sense or if you can relate.
'Living with alcoholism is too much for most of us' I am one of the 'most of us' I cant do it.
kayS said
Dec 12, 2017
I don't see my looking at his phone as an invasion of his privacy. We've been married for 23 years. Together for 35 years. I've never once done anything like that until his addiction - and even then of the 6/7 years he's been battling it I've only taken to looking at his phone over the past 2 years. Am I not entitled to know how much of our household money is being spent on drugs - at the very least so I can make certain it's not infringing on our payment of bills or going through our savings or cutting back on our savings or causing us to cut things that wouldn't otherwise need to be cut? I didn't just wake up and decide I wanted to invade his privacy and see what he was up to. Years of his lying has landed us in this situation. If he wanted to shift the blame from his actions to mine - so be it. That would be mildly amusing.
I do appreciate though that invasion of privacy isn't something to be taken lightly. He's forfeited his right to privacy in this house and if he wants to pick up and leave he can have at it. It would make my life a lot easier if he was the one to leave rather then me leaving and figuring out which kid's lives to dismantle and leave with me.
SerenityRUS said
Dec 12, 2017
My fury was totally there when someone in program told me my xahs behavior was none of my business. I really didn't get it. Of course it was my business it was my marriage. I laugh now because it makes more sense at this point .. My business is taking care of me.. My higher power does a better job doing that than I can .. the God God of my understanding knows the end game and what His plan for me is. When I put my will in His way I get run over. It's information I'm not prepared to deal with .. so you know he's using .. what is your plan? When I was at your stage of my marriage in terms of understood what was going on .. I was on the crazy train on my way to Looneyville. I had lost perception on how to take care of me. I truly encourage you to go to a meeting understand you are not alone .. I sat in sheer indignity that my ex was 100% of the problem. I hadn't violated his privacy we were married .. I hadn't done anything except protect myself and my kids .. I was not prepared to see my ex as anything except a drunk and be clear I still don't like him as a person today which means I have more work to do on me. No .. his drinking women and so on were none of my business in the sense that was hos stuff to work through. I needed to be whole and healthy for my kids. I still work to get there. I was not always in the right bt spying snooping or reading texts that weren't for me. It did not help me heal .. it further hurt me emotionally and mentally. How could he dishonor me like that when he should be able to stop. I hope you keep coming back and I hope you find a face to face meeting to attend. I hope you figure out where you want to be and are able to find a reprieve from the crazy making and some peace for yourself. Big hugs.
kayS said
Dec 12, 2017
That seems to makes sense - thank you for the clarification. I do not know what I'm going to do. I am seeing a therapist who tells me its ok to not know. It's ok to keep the mechanics of life going even though I don't know what the future holds.
Maresie said
Dec 12, 2017
I looked at the ex A's phone. I learned he had a lot more time for everyone.but me. I already knee that.
The reason the suggestion is maze.is to try to diminish the obsession. It isn't about that you d9nt deserve to know. .
When I.stopped looking at the ex A's phone.>.felt better. Nothing else changed. He. Continued destroy oud.mutual time. Eventually I gave.uo talking to his.famiky too. Like me they.could do nothing .
Keep in.miind no one.here is judgemental. We.have.all been to help and.baxk.
The suggestions.are just that suggestions. There are no maxims.
No one.here has a perfect recovery from doing things by the book.
Good afternoon,
I'm really struggling with understanding how none of this is personal to me. On one hand I completely get it - my husband recognizes everything that is on the line. I believe that he loves us and our life and doesn't want to lose it. So the only rationale explanation for his continued addiction(s) is that it's a disease that he can't, yet, control. I really do try to believe that it's not personal to me/us. That it wasn't any combination of our life experiences that that caused this to happen. I used to spend my time like a hamster in a wheel trying to figure out what I could do to make things better - what I could do to make life easier for him thus making him less likely to relying on the drugs and alcohol. Over time that's morphed to a complete understanding that nothing I say do or don't say don't do makes any sort of difference - positively or negatively. I am grateful that I came to recognize and believe that because that was quite exhausting. Nonetheless - I'm still left feeling like how can this not be personal. I mean - yesterday, for example, we had a calm conversation about his using. It had been clear to me that he's been using - though each time he tells me I'm crazy that he's NOT using and I'm just looking for things that aren't there. I'm beyond giving what he says any merit .... the only thing I can trust at this point in my own gut. I chose yesterday morning to talk to him because he was sober. He doesn't have much to say other then apologize - for the most part anyhow. He looked up a meeting and said while I was with our daughter at sports he would attend a meeting (he dabbles in his meetings. he just finished an out patient program and was forced into their 1x weekly group due to insurance caps). Later that evening it seemed to me he'd been using. I checked his phone (I know - I shouldn't but it's my only tool for validating what's going on - for being able to see for myself the truth since he won't tell me. Not only had he met his dealer yesterday he used going out for a meeting as an excuse to get out w/out raising any flags. I mean - this wasn't really a surprise to me - it's not the first time he's done this.
How do I get my intellectual understanding to see eye to eye with how I FEEL?
KayS it also took me a long time to get humble and just accept what the fellowship was sharing and talking about with their own experiences. Before that I just didn't get it which resulted in two trips into the program before I just stopped fighting it and trying to figure it out. When I got to the point where I just "acted as if" and "accepted what others had also accepted" my mind, body, spirit and emotions calmed down and I could hear the lessons and take one step after another. "Acting as if" was power recovery...I was acting which led me to the reality also. I also went to college on the disease (yes I did) and stayed close to the American Medical Association's lessons and guidance. I memorized the guidance statement at the end of our meetings as though it was made just for me and I still work it...."If you keep and OPEN MIND ...you will find help"...I stopped Judging and criticizing and thinking I had or should have had the solutions on my own accord...I got my ego out of the mix. The AMA told us that alcohol and drug were mind and mood altering chemicals and I came to understand what our "Normal" was when seeing how we lived...it was insane. I learned to not take it personally and that I was just one member of a would wide fellowship of family members who's lives had been victimized by addiction. I killed my expectations of having life in a way that alcohol and drugs could not and would not support and I kept going on with the suggestions I was getting from the fellowship just as we are doing here. Keep your inner voice out of the what is this about conversation with your self ...listen to the old timers and your sponsor and the literature from both program and keep coming here often sharing what you have come to understand. ((((hugs))))
I know now that I will never understand what motivates another. That, for me reaches beyond this disease. What is best for my recovery is to work on keeping the focus on me through recovery and talking with others in recovery who truly understand.
I'm sorry for the confusion and the uncertainty this disease brings. It does get easier to deal with in recovery. Keep coming back!
Well it is a boundary issue. You can choose to take it personally or you can see he is doing plenty to himself too
I know many alcoholics who never acknowledge they destroyed their relationships. They simply blame others.
Living around an alcohol8c it is pretty common to believe you can have somne effect on them. In truth an alcoholic drinks whatever the circumstances
The irony is when you surrender to the fact this illness is pervasive things change. The alcoholic may not stop.drinking but you stop.thinking his alcoholism is a reflection on you.
I hope you will be nice to yourself g8ve yoursellf a reprieve.
This program is a very hard one. I balked at every.element of it. When I.couldnt stand the pain I gave some suggestions a chance.
The ex A never changed one iota. How I felt about his alcoholism changed dramatically. I was severely depressed and even suicidal at times. I felt worn down to nothing
I spent a lot of time on the chat room here and got a big reprieve from the torrents if self hatred I showered on myself. I got a sponsor and took suggestions under fire .
Maresie
My feelings are neither good nor bad however they are also what blinds me or I think binds me to the current situation whatever that is, the reality is nothing I say or do will make an addict see the right or wrong of their ways .. that is not my journey. My journey is to figure out what I want.
My childhood was spent with a LOT of gaslighting going on being told what I felt and what I saw was not happening. So as an adult I am really sensitive to that side of things do not tell me what see or feel in terms of what's going on .. I am me and I am in my own truth of my situation.
I say honor your feelings of what you see and allow yourself to grieve what you see because it is sad. It is sad to let go of the expectation of what I thought was someone who was not if that makes any sense .. so yes .. it is sad.
As far as the snooping ... I would ask what are you getting out of that? If you are snooping for validation .. it's going to be what it is .. the God of my understanding always revealed to me what I needed to know when I was prepared to handle it. If I snooped got the information then what was I going to do with it. Cry me a river after all the he did me wrongs or make a decision that I wasn't prepared to make. After I came to the realization I caused my own pain a LOT of it on my own, I was better able to accept if I snooped it was on me what I found out because I was inflicting my own will into the situation.
For me having a sponsor when I had those urges helped me a great deal because I was better able to figure out what I was doing and how I was hurting me, and ironically I see it as giving my XAH a way out of having to be responsible for his actions after all who's the bigger sinner so to speak .. him for doing his deal or me for invading his privacy. Do note had he done that to me all hell would have broken loose so that was my part of the deal.
DO keep coming back .. you deserve peace and serenity in regards to finding your own way. He's going to do what he's going to do .. the bigger question is what are you going to do? I find taking care of me is a far better way to go. In my X's case that means a lot of court for him because he chooses not to go the easy way.
Big hugs,
S :)
What if you this is just plain unacceptable to you and thats that. You may be trying to rationalise and intellectualise the facts so that you can feel comfortable with his addiction. Ive tried that too and ive tried really hard because its my son and the alternative is hard.
For me though the alternative is the right thing for all concerned. The alternative is not accepting unacceptable behaviour and active drinking is unacceptable to me and its simple but it means facing hard truths and taking the hard actions. For me i kind of feel that taking action someday will mean my son is homeless and that is a big fear for me but just because its a big fear for me doesn't mean its not right. My son living with me doesn't work, he drinks and drinks and it gets worse, he tells me whatever he thinks i want to hear and all the while he gets sicker and so do I. So the right thing is to not have my son living with me. So homelessness may be the right thing for my son and just because i cant face it doesnt mean its not the right thing. Not sure if this is making sense or if you can relate.
'Living with alcoholism is too much for most of us' I am one of the 'most of us' I cant do it.
I don't see my looking at his phone as an invasion of his privacy. We've been married for 23 years. Together for 35 years. I've never once done anything like that until his addiction - and even then of the 6/7 years he's been battling it I've only taken to looking at his phone over the past 2 years. Am I not entitled to know how much of our household money is being spent on drugs - at the very least so I can make certain it's not infringing on our payment of bills or going through our savings or cutting back on our savings or causing us to cut things that wouldn't otherwise need to be cut? I didn't just wake up and decide I wanted to invade his privacy and see what he was up to. Years of his lying has landed us in this situation. If he wanted to shift the blame from his actions to mine - so be it. That would be mildly amusing.
I do appreciate though that invasion of privacy isn't something to be taken lightly. He's forfeited his right to privacy in this house and if he wants to pick up and leave he can have at it. It would make my life a lot easier if he was the one to leave rather then me leaving and figuring out which kid's lives to dismantle and leave with me.
That seems to makes sense - thank you for the clarification. I do not know what I'm going to do. I am seeing a therapist who tells me its ok to not know. It's ok to keep the mechanics of life going even though I don't know what the future holds.
I looked at the ex A's phone. I learned he had a lot more time for everyone.but me. I already knee that.
The reason the suggestion is maze.is to try to diminish the obsession. It isn't about that you d9nt deserve to know. .
When I.stopped looking at the ex A's phone.>.felt better. Nothing else changed. He. Continued destroy oud.mutual time. Eventually I gave.uo talking to his.famiky too. Like me they.could do nothing .
Keep in.miind no one.here is judgemental. We.have.all been to help and.baxk.
The suggestions.are just that suggestions. There are no maxims.
No one.here has a perfect recovery from doing things by the book.
Maresie