today I'm feeling very frustrated, angry and sad. I'm so confused with the behaviour of my AH. The past few days have been awful. Our fighting escalated- I totally engaged in the taunting, bullying behaviour. I couldn't take it anymore. His stress at work has increased, and as such he's using me as an outlet. I'm an understanding person- I've been trying for the last few weeks to be nice- to detach with love. I really have tried. But all I'm getting is disinterest, outright dismissal and ultimately once I've voiced my feelings- downright verbal abuse and rage. It's like living with a crazy person. So the other day I snapped. And it turned into a very ugly, rage fuelled fight. It was just awful. This man has no issue with calling me the vilest names, most people would be shocked to hear the assault. How am I supposed to detach with love when he calls me cu@t, go f&@$ your daddy, you pig, you fat whore....etc. I had enough and ended up stooping to his level calling him awful names. Once I stopped I felt sick to my stomach. This was late at night- my daughter was in bed so there was no way I would leave the house. The following day he texted from work (he can't talk on the phone) the most sincere, incredible apology. It was the real man I married and fell in love with. I forgave him. Flash forward to today and he is back to mr.Angry having temper tantrums. I lost my cool again. And so ensued hours of awful, abusive texts. All the stuff he apologized for he did again. With a vengeance. I left the house to go run errands and he just kept texting me all these awful names again. I don't understand how to deal with this anymore. I never know who I'm dealing with anymore. And when he is nice- I'm bitter and totally distrustful. How on earth does one survive through this insanity with any dignity?? I feel beaten and worn down. He tells me for so long already that he's been depressed- but he doesn't do anything about it? I see that he is- and I told him when he's ready I will go with him to the dr and we can face it together. So frustrating and disheartening. I felt so great yesterday after he apologized- like on top of the world. If anyone can please share their experience if they've been through the same- I would be so grateful just to hear your words....
Jerry F said
Dec 8, 2017
Ella that is exactly the description of alcoholism on both of you and that is exactly the opposite of what program is. I read your post and revisit my own experiences in the disease then and then I remember word for word what the 2nd step says..."Came to believe that a power ...greater than myself... could restore me to sanity. Sanity...A continuous and orderly process of thought. All of this from inside the program attendance and much more. I had to find a power greater than myself and my alcoholic/addict and the chemicals and whatever so that I could grab ahold of and just hold on and listen and learn. I would have never ever been able to do it without the words and the living examples of the fellowship...I didn't know what was wrong and didn't know that I didn't know. I kept doing the same things over and over again expecting different results and the fellowship told me that that was their definition of insanity...Now what?? I wanted to know and then kept telling me..."Keep coming back...THIS WORKS WHEN YOU WORK IT...so listen and learn and practice, practice, practice and so I did and became an entirely different person than I was back then and then in the mean time my alcoholic/addict also started her own recovery and developed into a miracle also.
This program works when you work it....Eyes on yourself and on those who are recovering in your fellowship and keep coming back. ((((hugs))))
Elabella said
Dec 8, 2017
Thank you Jerry. I know I have to keep up with the program. I haven't been able to go for face to face meetings for a couple of weeks already, but I do check in daily online and read through many posts for some encouragement. It's not easy. And it is insanity- both his behaviour and mine. It's so hard to not get caught up in it. Especially for me, the verbal abuse and dismissive behaviours. I know this gets a major reaction triggered from myself.
Elabella said
Dec 8, 2017
Let me add that the reason I'm more confused is because he was not really drunk when these rage episodes come about. He does drink everyday from morning til night- but he mostly is never obviously drunk. He can't function without it- so for him drinking all day is what keeps him "normal". If you didn't know him you would never assume he's been drinking. It's very sad..
Jerry F said
Dec 8, 2017
Sister you know that you are being supported by this family and we have hopes and prayers for you. I know this is a life threatening disease. I have seen it take not only the sanity away and the entire lives of the victims. I was one of the near death victims and also caused that for my own alcoholic/addict. HP had other ideas gratefully. I relate to the Jekyl and Hyde personalities and feel cautious for both you and your alcoholic. Keep on keeping on. ((((hugs))))
Jerry F said
Dec 8, 2017
Alcohol...and drugs...are named mind and mood altering chemicals...you can be altered with out having to drink or use. What they do to our life systems, they do continuously. There is a term in recovery called "dry drunking" meaning appearing and acting drunk even without having had one. This is a powerful disease. ((hugs))
mamalioness said
Dec 9, 2017
I don't care HOW bad of a drunk he is, that ugly language is not the booze but some issue within him and the ole "devil made me say that' just does not cut it with me...my ex AH #1 was like that..and I was gone...my ex AH#2 NEVER in his wildest drunk call me anything degrading and ugly like that...to me?? that is the most degrading thing and it may be precurser to physical abuse..Not saying for sure, but there is a rage in him that would really make me think of a plan B if things get rough again, like a safe place where you can go if things get ugly physically, put an extra set of car keyes in a safe place, money, etc., so you can grab and run if you have to.....what he said , there is never any excuse for that.....from what I hear, my offender sire, used to do that to the alcoholic mother before he began beating her........Please be careful and I am SO sorry he did that to you...Really makes ya feel good about yourself hey???? I went through that with AH #1 and he escalated from that to physical shoving, etc., ugly is ugly and the booze a lot of times brings out whats already in a person.....so soo sad and so bad how he treated you...I would up my meetings and talk with some old timers what alternative steps I can take to protect me and what their take is on this, you need healthy allies to help you make sound decisions on what is the best thing to do for you............IN SUPPORT
Aline said
Dec 9, 2017
Hugs, ((((Elabella)))), I'm so sorry for the insanity you're going through. Your post reminded me on how things used to be with me and my abf, a similar story... I remember very well the feeling of happiness and elation whenever my abf apologized and things seemed like they would get well again, the abf would stop being a jerk and we would be happy together like we were meant to... No matter how many times ugly situations happened, I still held on to this fantasy... I let go of it gradually, what helped me was listening to AA speakers and understanding better that alcoholics are very sick people. Just this week I had a blame-filled conversation over the phone with my abf and when I hung up I repeated to myself, ""he's sick, he's sick, he's very sick"... that helped to not take offense. Alcoholics say what they say and do what they do because they are alcoholics. The other question, of course, is why communicate with him in the first place if this is what I usually get... Something for me to answer.
When I just started Alanon and began to hear from others who've been where I am, and started changing my attitudes (or at least "acting as if" I was really changing my attitudes when I couldn't do the real thing), the A's behavior took a turn for the worse. I suppose, in his eyes the fact that I was trying to detach and not hang on to his every vile word or cry/rage about every broken promise meant I didn't love him anymore. The program tells us not to engage in conflicts, but sometimes we slip, and that's ok. I'm beginning to accept that I'm just human and all humans make mistakes. The best I can do is learn from my mistakes, so that hopefully I don't repeat them. Sometimes I need to make many, many mistakes for that to happen, though...
When confronted with verbal abuse or blaming, I learned through the fellowship some things that helped me. Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean. When I first started to employ a different approach, I sometimes said to my abf, when he would call me names, "I am not X, and I would ask not to call me that anymore". That took a while to sink in, both for me and him, and initially the abuse got worse, because he wasn't getting the reaction he wanted out of me. Sometimes answers "You may be right" (not when I was being called names, though) and "I'm sorry you feel that way" were useful. I was told here on MIP once in response to a post of mine to think what is more important to me - do I want to be right, or do I want to be happy? Essentially there is no real need to prove to anyone that I'm right, it is enough to know my own truth. An alcoholic or anyone else can deny any truth if they want to, this doesn't change reality. Also a great tool is JADE - don't Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain.
Several months after I really got into the program I realized I had to remember and accept at all times that my abf was both Jekyll and Hyde all at the same time. I couldn't have the good guy without the bad guy. They are one and the same person. What I now realize that my abf probably would not become only Jekyll if he found recovery. He might become himself after some time who was a combination of both persons. I hope this makes sense.
The slogan "focus on you" is very important in my mind, as there's really nobody else we can change but ourselves. You deserve to be happy and healthy, and the best thing you can do both for yourself and your family is to work on yourself. Your healthiness might rub off on others, and even if it doesn't, you will be better equipped to be of service to your family in a healthy way.
Hugs, keep coming back :)
2HP said
Dec 9, 2017
This is a great, helpful post for understanding the nature of alcoholism -- as well as our own part in the merry go round.
I was married to Jeckle and Hyde too, exactly as you describe, I never knew who was going to walk through the door. And in whatever way he would "act"...
I would "react."
This is precisely how I was controlled by his disease.
Until I learned not to do that anymore, gaining power by changing the things I could change.
I celebrate your awareness!!!!! thank you for posting
joker said
Dec 9, 2017
I read your post and to me it reminds me of the alcoholic that escalated to physical abuse on me. He has been arrested and there is no contact order in place. I had to go to a domestic violence group as well as al-anon meetings to get my head around what is going on. I thought I was going insane! I had an emergency bag in my car, in case I had to leave due to the abuse. I had left a few times, and got a hotel room and tried to gather myself. I would come home 2 days later. While I was away, I would read Al-anon on line her and finally reached out to domestic violence group. Abuse is abuse and it will only get worse, as it did in my situation. I accepted the abuse as I believed he would change, and instead it got worse and I got assaulted and held against my will in the bedroom. It was awful, awful. He has court on December 13, 2017 for what he did. I am now away from him and I am enjoying so much the quite and peace. I have healing to do still due to the abuse. There is help out there for domestic violence. Get help for yourself before he physically attacks you. He is abusing you. I endured that too and found out it was abuse when I went to the woman's group for domestic violence.
Abuse is abuse and there is no sugar coating it. There are woman shelters out there too. There is help out there for abused woman. I had once called a woman shelter to talk about what was happening and I was told, it was abuse. I had to get physically beaten for me to leave. Its not worth it. I takes a lot out of you! I have anxiety a lot now because of it. He will escalate. I know my alcoholic did, he went nuts. Now he has a court for assaulting me. He believes he is entitled and can do what he wants. Abuse is abuse, no other way to say it.
There is restraining orders, EPO, leave, move out, get domestic violence help, al-anon. There is help out there. Get it before he beats you!
Hugs from Canada!
Get help for uy
jtpickle said
Dec 9, 2017
Hi Elabella - I new to the boards and I read your post. The exact same thing happens in my house with my AH and it's frustrating. The main difference is that he often is calling me those awful names but I just don't react. It is his illnesses - both alcohol and mental. I've been attending meetings for a month both F2F and via the phone bridge. I think it just sucks. It's frustrating and it makes me sad because even though I love my AH, I'm beginning to not want to live with him. I'm trying to detach with love but that is hard. If it wasn't for my 4 kiddos, I'd be out of here. :(
Anyway, my main point is to send you hugs and let you know you're not alone. I will keep comping back and hope to find the serenity that so many others have found.
Iamhere said
Dec 9, 2017
(((Elabella))) - so sorry for the mayhem and chaos the disease is bringing. It is only in Al-Anon did I find my path to peace. I truly had to repeat over and over and over and over the Serenity Prayer as well as my mantra then - Love the person but hate this disease. I just kept my mouth closed for a long while as everything and anything that came out was emotionally charged and often very reactive. Keep coming back and practice, practice, practice - you can and will recover if you keep coming back.
Welcome to MIP jtpickle - glad you found us and glad that you shared. Glad to hear you plan to keep coming back! Great to have you both as part of the family!!
Jerry F said
Dec 9, 2017
Welcome to the board and the family Jtpickle. It is good to hear new courage and hoping it rubs off on everyone visiting this site and wanting peace of mind and serenity. ((((hugs))))
Elabella said
Dec 10, 2017
Thank you all for your support. I'm so happy that I've taken the initiative to start this program.
Today again I am dealing with the same merry go round. And I'm the one who started. Yesterday we had a party to attend for his work. Put on the full show. It's amazing to me that everyone that he works with are just so enchanted by everything he says and does. He is very good at what he does. And he knows how to put on the charm. Very very well. But the whole time I was seething under the surface. I was thinking," if you only knew what this man is really like- you'd be shocked beyond belief". I had to play the part of the loving, supporting spouse- and frankly, I was not feeling the love. I just can't wrap my head around how I'm supposed to detach with love. Before we left for the evening I was scrutinized for what I was wearing, what colour lipstick I wore, my hair. But as soon as we met with another couple to go to the party, he was complimenting the woman on her hair and outfit? Jekyll and Hyde. I'm having a very hard time separating the man from the disease. I took all of this very personally. The evening had a few blips- but on the most part he was ok because he had to put in a good show for his work. It made me so resentful. Very. So here I am today, and I started on him from the morning. I'm just so bitter and resentful. I feel like the entire evening was a lie. Is this my part of the disease kicking in? Expectations?? I'm very confused. How do you detach with love from inconsiderate behaviour?
Jerry F said
Dec 10, 2017
There are many steps I had to learn to reach the point where she could be she without my support or denial or judgement and I could be who I was and am. Learning how to inventory me...where I was, what I was thinking, what I was doing and such so I could get the focus off of her. Knowing that I could call hundreds of members in the program for support at almost any time was also gold. I wasn't in this alone and still am not. Use the tool without fear. Your negative thoughts and judgements are making it hard on you and for me learning how to detach from those was gold. I went face to face with Jerry F and demanded change which came in good time. When I did my alcoholic/addict wife had all the time in the world to live with herself as she was and suspicioned she was and then she couldn't handle it any longer and went into recovery. What a marvelous woman she once again became.
The jekyl and Hyde is maddening and I didn't have to make it worse. Keep coming back. ((((Hugs))))
Iamhere said
Dec 10, 2017
Ellebella - it's such a tough, tough spot to be in. For me, I had to truly work to change that which I could - me. The program and those who came before me taught me that how he is, speaks, acts, etc. even IF directed at me was not about me at all - it was about him/them. I truly had to use a higher power often/always if I wanted to be restored to sanity. Yes - the conditions weren't optimal for sanity, but it was my goal.
My A(s) tend to enjoy the reactions they get from pushing buttons. The program taught me how to respond vs. react and things changed here when I stopped giving them the insane me that they enjoyed. I also had to accept that their thinking was unhealthy and faulty because of this disease. This applied even when they weren't directly under the influence.
As Jerry points out, I really had to dig deep into self to realize I was worthy and I was loved and lovable. My expectations were unrealistic and I had fairy-tale ideas of what 'love', 'life', 'others', etc. should be. I found enough courage to give up many 'roles' and make choices for me - such as not going to things I thought it was 'my duty' to attend. In recovery, I also learned that comparing what I felt inside to what others showed me on the outside was faulty - just as you and your AH showed up and 'played a role', so did everyone else.
One Day at a Time, this program and a higher power brought me closer to sanity, serenity and acceptance....not necessarily in that order. Staying present and focusing on just One Day at a Time really helped.
el-cee said
Dec 10, 2017
I also lived this way and felt the despair, its horrible and I understand. It was amazing to me to get to my first Alanon meeting and see all those happy faces and they had all walked this walk, so how do you get to be calm happy and serene from within this insanity? For me it was committing to my own program of recovery and realising the solution is spiritual and I had to learn what spirituality was and im still learning.I hope you chose recovery for yourself, a life beyond what you imagine waits for you.
AnnieFenk321 said
Dec 10, 2017
Just wanted to share with you that I also identify and I know the feeling of expending so much effort into keeping my side of the fence clean and not engaging in his antics, only to have that "one time" where it's too much and for reasons usually associated with my stress level, I buy into his madness and literal chaos ensures. It happened to us over the weekend too.
Sending best wishes and hugs
Maresie said
Dec 10, 2017
The ex A was and still is Jekyll and Hyde. Nice one minute contemptuous the next. I took it all very personally
You don't need to read the texts. I certainly put up with the ex A badgering me when he wanted something. Next minute he totally abandoned me
I have been around Jekyll and Hyde people like that since
I no longer tale it on. I avoid them as best I can.
Don't set yourself up by thinking you #should# solve this anytime soon. Am anon is difficult at first. It takes a while to immerse yourself in this program
As he isn't giving you a break you need to be nice to yourself
Maresie
2HP said
Dec 10, 2017
Your awareness is gold! You basically wrote.... when he did this... I reacted like that...
This honest awareness is what happens when we "wake up" and put on a clear set of glasses to see things as they really are. It didn't feel good for me either (((big hugs)))
Its like you told my story (like our husbands are twins!!) so I understand exactly how angry and bitter you are. And probably confused by the suggestions of Al-Anon, which were the exact opposite of what came natural to me.
I took the suggestions you've already been given, against my will at first but I figured if I could've figured out a way to deal with his alcoholism on my own, I certainly would have! I had hit my bottom, was entirely defeated trying to fight a battle I could NOT win. The members of Al-Anon validated me and told me I was not insane while confirming his behavior was very typically alcoholic. That was good to know even though I was still powerless over it.
Keep coming back. You are not crazy, my friend. Your husband has a disease that rears its ugly head from time to time, making him do selfish, self-seeking, dishonest, and fearful things... (people-pleasing comes from fear "they won't like me unless my wife looks like a perfect million bucks and I charm the pants off everybody..."
My husband was completely engrossed in appearances. I developed compassion for him when I realized he and I were BOTH two fearful human beings.
And yet not hopeless. Not with a power GREATER than alcoholism
-- Edited by 2HP on Sunday 10th of December 2017 05:08:03 PM
Elabella said
Dec 11, 2017
I thank you all so much for your wisdom and insight. I have to keep reminding myself that this isn't really him- it is the disease that is making him act the way he does. So easy to go into full on blame mode- he should've said this, shouldn't have said that, etc. I have to keep pulling the focus back on me and what I need in the moment to stay at peace. Very difficult for this girl who always has a very strong reaction to everything! it's not easy. All one day at a time. What I do know is that he does realize how he crosses the boundaries- the following day he is always acting in a remorseful way- even if he doesn't want to admit it to me. His childhood was filled with trauma- and there are things I know he hasn't told me but has alluded to. It's heartbreaking because he really is a beautiful soul- and I've been lucky enough for many years to be witness to that wonderful man. The reason why I've chosen to share my life with him. Something in the last few years has triggered him into this self-destruction. With that- the alcoholism has been fuelled to giant proportions. Very sad. Thank you all again for your support. It's a Godsend to have this program....
KT2015 said
Dec 11, 2017
Elabella,
Your post reminded me of how my relationship used to be when I came into Al Anon. There was very little respect for each other on either side. One of the first things that helped me was to know that I don't have to accept unacceptable behaviour. My reflection on my experience was that when he would say something nasty or insulting I would react and say something equally nasty and insulting. What that did was take the focus off his action and put it right on me and my reaction. You see when I would retaliate/react and call him names back I was really behaving in a way that didn't fit with how I saw myself and that created a lot of guilt and shame on my part for my behaviour toward him. It also gave him something to throw back at me as to why he treated me the way that he did. And we would get stuck in this sick nasty loop. Then I came to Al Anon and my sponsor suggested this very simple phrase "Do not speak to me that way, I don't deserve it" and then I would walk away. Now I know that is not an earth shattering revelation but if you knew me then I was stubborn, outspoken, thought I knew everything and should set everyone straight and tell them off. My best friend said her favourite phrase of mine was "That's not how this is going to go". So for me to calmly say those words and walk away was like doing the opposite of everything I ever did in my entire life. But nothing had changed this dynamic that I had tried already so I decided to try it. No matter how much anger his comments stirred up in me I would say those words and leave or disengage (not read any further insulting text messages). I started to take care of myself because I was protecting myself from nasty comments and emotional upheaval. When I felt really bad I would do something really nice for myself. Once I stormed out the door and went for a pedicure lol. I would call al anon friends to talk about it with. I would go for a walk and get some exercise. I took extra good care of myself on those awful days. I inadvertently showed him respect by NOT calling him names back. And the amazing side effect was that he stopped the nasty comments, he treated me with more respect than I thought possible. I believe it was because I stopped accepting the unacceptable behaviour by refusing to continue to engage with him, by walking away, by telling him it was not ok to speak to me that way. I started to believe the words myself which sadly I didn't believe before. I also learned to value my emotional well being and nurture it. That made me a lot stronger. My relationship has changed drastically because of this program. My AH is still active in his disease. I still have some bad days but I have also learned to take care of myself and that is something that is always with me no matter what storm is on the horizon. It sounds like you have some awareness around this and that's amazing. Keep working your program you are doing great!
Maresie said
Dec 11, 2017
I think the progress is knowing when your boundaries are crossed. For most of my life I didn't know what a boundary was
I worked recently with a woman I had a lot of problems with.
The difference is first of all I no longer get swallowed whole by someone else acting out
The other difference of course is when I go home I have peace
When you live with an alcoholic you don't get a reprieve
Rather than counting how many times someone crosses my boundaries I focus on what I.can do to replenish myself
The new thing for me is I know this woman is not going to change. Going through life like a bull in a China shop works for her
I will not allow someone else to invade my serenity annoy meband irritate me perhaps.
The boundary issue is two sides. It is yoiur boundary thz t is also at risk. No one but no one gets me to the point of obsession anymore. I know where that goes.
I work really hard on creating space for myself to heal.
When I lived with an alcoholic it was non stop assault.
The replenishiung was out if exhaustion not health.
Maresie
Elabella said
Dec 11, 2017
Wow. Some real eye openers for me. KT2015 you sound just like me! I thank you for your honesty and insight. I'm practicing in my head already how to say when the time comes," Do not speak to me this way. I don't deserve it". Calmly...! I've said it in the past- but always with dramatic flair..lol.
I'm sitting here reading through the message board and I'm left with a burning question. Why do the alcoholics find it so easy to be so nasty to the people who love them so?? I know I'm supposed to believe that it's their brains wired a different way. But- I've noticed this not only with my AH but with other alcoholics in my life. Why is it possible for them to be ok with certain people, but complete demons with the ones closest to them? I don't get it. This is one of the things that to me seems so illogical. To me it's like it's a choice for them. Am I off base here?
mamalioness said
Dec 12, 2017
Hey Elabella, the other folks would see the demons if they LIVED with the drinker...my X AH#1 was a total charmer with other folks because he could keep up the BS temporarily and he only saw them for temporary...I saw the real him....thats why when you date/courting with someone, lots of times they can "behave" enough to win your heart...EX AH#1 was on wagon when I met him..we had a blast, dating, then he started drinking shortly after we married and I was living with him and seeing the REAL him...Even B4 he started drinking again, LIVING with him, I saw signs but chose to ignore them...nasty insults, put downs, veiled slams but wtih a grin on his face, all of a sudden, or least I SAW it, I could not do anything right.........oh yea, he was soo popular with folks he worked with WHEN he worked, oh yea, mr. nice guy, but I LIVED with him and I saw this "mommie's boy" and what he really was like...Drunk, he was just worse.....so the "complete demons with the ones closest to them" to me has been because WE KNOW THEM....not just the "on good behavior" times, but we KNOW THEM.......and yea, its a choice to NOT get into recovery, to NOT want to change behavior that is destroying the good they have in their lives, to NOT reach out for help.....sometimes they have to get slammed by life real hard and be forced into recovery....others SEE themselves and they go get help....every alcoholic I have ever known, KNEW they could get help but just were not interested or not ready...My own brother TOLD ME flat out...."I want to drink--I dont want to quit---so I am not interested in AA" That was the last time I mentioned recovery with him and this was recent...I have distanced myself big time..I love him, but I hate what he is doing and yes, it is a disease, but to STAY in it is a choice...Like someone with diabetes..they can stuff their guts with sugar and perpetuate their illness and bring about their death, OR they can go to Dr., get on a diet, if correctable by diet, or take their insulin if they are severe, but they have that CHOICE.....why they choose NOT to help themselves?? is beyond me....yea, I feel compassion for anyone on a self destructive road, but I don't have to travel with them. and if I have to keep practicing detachment and all the other high maintenance survival stuff that goes with living with a NON recovering alcoholic, then whats the point for me???? what do I need to fix within me so I can have the life I deserve....I know some folks can successfully live with an alcoholic, but I think if they are abusive, not contributing financially , and causing all kinds of upheaval, a lot of them would "walk" I know I did..I knew there HAD to be a better life than what I was staying in.....And there was....it was recovery and finding ME .........Please keep coming back...We care about you and we're here
Iamhere said
Dec 12, 2017
Elabella - my thoughts - take what you like and leave the rest - the alcoholics I love often view me as 'the enemy' - In their way of processing, I am either trying or succeeding in standing between them and their primary mistress - the substance. When my sons get nasty with me, I have even said before, I love you - I am not your enemy.
Al-Anon helped me find my words that were about me and not blaming, demeaning, condescending, etc. It's taken a ton of practice - I statements really help me stay focused on what my real message is. Keep processing and keep practicing - that's how it works!
KT2015 said
Dec 12, 2017
These are my thoughts take what you like and leave the rest also. I agree with IAH. I come between my AH and his substance and that causes the outbursts of anger. I don't prevent him from drinking but he wants to hide it from me and he realizes more and more that he can't. There is something in how all anon works that describes what I think this is and it describes it much better than I will so please excuse my terrible interpretation if it lol. It's a way of staying in denial. The alcoholic does something, says a nasty comment, bounces a cheque, gets in a fight with someone and everyone's attention goes to the comment, the cheque, the fight and they try to fix that symptom of the disease not realizing that it is distracting everyone from the real problem underlying it all which is the drinking. I see that me fighting with my AH was just enabling his drinking because he could tell me and himself that it was my temper that caused the problem. Or he was drinking because I was so nasty to him. And I think I was also in denial. I try not to analyze it too much though because I could get lost in trying to figure it out. I've lived in awareness of my partner's disease long enough to know that no matter what I say, no matter what I think I have figured out he won't see it until he is ready to see it. So then I bring the focus back to myself. What do I need right now? How do I want to behave? What can I change to better MY life? Staying as calm as possible (progress not perfection) and walking away from the verbal battles really improved my life in an amazing way. Keep processing you really have some great awareness. I look forward to hear your progress with this as you go.
Ella that is exactly the description of alcoholism on both of you and that is exactly the opposite of what program is. I read your post and revisit my own experiences in the disease then and then I remember word for word what the 2nd step says..."Came to believe that a power ...greater than myself... could restore me to sanity. Sanity...A continuous and orderly process of thought. All of this from inside the program attendance and much more. I had to find a power greater than myself and my alcoholic/addict and the chemicals and whatever so that I could grab ahold of and just hold on and listen and learn. I would have never ever been able to do it without the words and the living examples of the fellowship...I didn't know what was wrong and didn't know that I didn't know. I kept doing the same things over and over again expecting different results and the fellowship told me that that was their definition of insanity...Now what?? I wanted to know and then kept telling me..."Keep coming back...THIS WORKS WHEN YOU WORK IT...so listen and learn and practice, practice, practice and so I did and became an entirely different person than I was back then and then in the mean time my alcoholic/addict also started her own recovery and developed into a miracle also.
This program works when you work it....Eyes on yourself and on those who are recovering in your fellowship and keep coming back. ((((hugs))))
Sister you know that you are being supported by this family and we have hopes and prayers for you. I know this is a life threatening disease. I have seen it take not only the sanity away and the entire lives of the victims. I was one of the near death victims and also caused that for my own alcoholic/addict. HP had other ideas gratefully. I relate to the Jekyl and Hyde personalities and feel cautious for both you and your alcoholic. Keep on keeping on. ((((hugs))))
Alcohol...and drugs...are named mind and mood altering chemicals...you can be altered with out having to drink or use. What they do to our life systems, they do continuously. There is a term in recovery called "dry drunking" meaning appearing and acting drunk even without having had one. This is a powerful disease. ((hugs))
When I just started Alanon and began to hear from others who've been where I am, and started changing my attitudes (or at least "acting as if" I was really changing my attitudes when I couldn't do the real thing), the A's behavior took a turn for the worse. I suppose, in his eyes the fact that I was trying to detach and not hang on to his every vile word or cry/rage about every broken promise meant I didn't love him anymore. The program tells us not to engage in conflicts, but sometimes we slip, and that's ok. I'm beginning to accept that I'm just human and all humans make mistakes. The best I can do is learn from my mistakes, so that hopefully I don't repeat them. Sometimes I need to make many, many mistakes for that to happen, though...
When confronted with verbal abuse or blaming, I learned through the fellowship some things that helped me. Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean. When I first started to employ a different approach, I sometimes said to my abf, when he would call me names, "I am not X, and I would ask not to call me that anymore". That took a while to sink in, both for me and him, and initially the abuse got worse, because he wasn't getting the reaction he wanted out of me. Sometimes answers "You may be right" (not when I was being called names, though) and "I'm sorry you feel that way" were useful. I was told here on MIP once in response to a post of mine to think what is more important to me - do I want to be right, or do I want to be happy? Essentially there is no real need to prove to anyone that I'm right, it is enough to know my own truth. An alcoholic or anyone else can deny any truth if they want to, this doesn't change reality. Also a great tool is JADE - don't Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain.
Several months after I really got into the program I realized I had to remember and accept at all times that my abf was both Jekyll and Hyde all at the same time. I couldn't have the good guy without the bad guy. They are one and the same person. What I now realize that my abf probably would not become only Jekyll if he found recovery. He might become himself after some time who was a combination of both persons. I hope this makes sense.
The slogan "focus on you" is very important in my mind, as there's really nobody else we can change but ourselves. You deserve to be happy and healthy, and the best thing you can do both for yourself and your family is to work on yourself. Your healthiness might rub off on others, and even if it doesn't, you will be better equipped to be of service to your family in a healthy way.
Hugs, keep coming back :)
I was married to Jeckle and Hyde too, exactly as you describe, I never knew who was going to walk through the door. And in whatever way he would "act"...
I would "react."
This is precisely how I was controlled by his disease.
Until I learned not to do that anymore, gaining power by changing the things I could change.
I celebrate your awareness!!!!! thank you for posting
I read your post and to me it reminds me of the alcoholic that escalated to physical abuse on me. He has been arrested and there is no contact order in place. I had to go to a domestic violence group as well as al-anon meetings to get my head around what is going on. I thought I was going insane! I had an emergency bag in my car, in case I had to leave due to the abuse. I had left a few times, and got a hotel room and tried to gather myself. I would come home 2 days later. While I was away, I would read Al-anon on line her and finally reached out to domestic violence group. Abuse is abuse and it will only get worse, as it did in my situation. I accepted the abuse as I believed he would change, and instead it got worse and I got assaulted and held against my will in the bedroom. It was awful, awful. He has court on December 13, 2017 for what he did. I am now away from him and I am enjoying so much the quite and peace. I have healing to do still due to the abuse. There is help out there for domestic violence. Get help for yourself before he physically attacks you. He is abusing you. I endured that too and found out it was abuse when I went to the woman's group for domestic violence.
Abuse is abuse and there is no sugar coating it. There are woman shelters out there too. There is help out there for abused woman. I had once called a woman shelter to talk about what was happening and I was told, it was abuse. I had to get physically beaten for me to leave. Its not worth it. I takes a lot out of you! I have anxiety a lot now because of it. He will escalate. I know my alcoholic did, he went nuts. Now he has a court for assaulting me. He believes he is entitled and can do what he wants. Abuse is abuse, no other way to say it.
There is restraining orders, EPO, leave, move out, get domestic violence help, al-anon. There is help out there. Get it before he beats you!
Hugs from Canada!
Get help for uy
Hi Elabella - I new to the boards and I read your post. The exact same thing happens in my house with my AH and it's frustrating. The main difference is that he often is calling me those awful names but I just don't react. It is his illnesses - both alcohol and mental. I've been attending meetings for a month both F2F and via the phone bridge. I think it just sucks. It's frustrating and it makes me sad because even though I love my AH, I'm beginning to not want to live with him. I'm trying to detach with love but that is hard. If it wasn't for my 4 kiddos, I'd be out of here. :(
Anyway, my main point is to send you hugs and let you know you're not alone. I will keep comping back and hope to find the serenity that so many others have found.
Welcome to MIP jtpickle - glad you found us and glad that you shared. Glad to hear you plan to keep coming back! Great to have you both as part of the family!!
Welcome to the board and the family Jtpickle. It is good to hear new courage and hoping it rubs off on everyone visiting this site and wanting peace of mind and serenity. ((((hugs))))
There are many steps I had to learn to reach the point where she could be she without my support or denial or judgement and I could be who I was and am. Learning how to inventory me...where I was, what I was thinking, what I was doing and such so I could get the focus off of her. Knowing that I could call hundreds of members in the program for support at almost any time was also gold. I wasn't in this alone and still am not. Use the tool without fear. Your negative thoughts and judgements are making it hard on you and for me learning how to detach from those was gold. I went face to face with Jerry F and demanded change which came in good time. When I did my alcoholic/addict wife had all the time in the world to live with herself as she was and suspicioned she was and then she couldn't handle it any longer and went into recovery. What a marvelous woman she once again became.
The jekyl and Hyde is maddening and I didn't have to make it worse. Keep coming back. ((((Hugs))))
My A(s) tend to enjoy the reactions they get from pushing buttons. The program taught me how to respond vs. react and things changed here when I stopped giving them the insane me that they enjoyed. I also had to accept that their thinking was unhealthy and faulty because of this disease. This applied even when they weren't directly under the influence.
As Jerry points out, I really had to dig deep into self to realize I was worthy and I was loved and lovable. My expectations were unrealistic and I had fairy-tale ideas of what 'love', 'life', 'others', etc. should be. I found enough courage to give up many 'roles' and make choices for me - such as not going to things I thought it was 'my duty' to attend. In recovery, I also learned that comparing what I felt inside to what others showed me on the outside was faulty - just as you and your AH showed up and 'played a role', so did everyone else.
One Day at a Time, this program and a higher power brought me closer to sanity, serenity and acceptance....not necessarily in that order. Staying present and focusing on just One Day at a Time really helped.
I also lived this way and felt the despair, its horrible and I understand. It was amazing to me to get to my first Alanon meeting and see all those happy faces and they had all walked this walk, so how do you get to be calm happy and serene from within this insanity? For me it was committing to my own program of recovery and realising the solution is spiritual and I had to learn what spirituality was and im still learning.I hope you chose recovery for yourself, a life beyond what you imagine waits for you.
Sending best wishes and hugs
The ex A was and still is Jekyll and Hyde. Nice one minute contemptuous the next. I took it all very personally
You don't need to read the texts. I certainly put up with the ex A badgering me when he wanted something. Next minute he totally abandoned me
I have been around Jekyll and Hyde people like that since
I no longer tale it on. I avoid them as best I can.
Don't set yourself up by thinking you #should# solve this anytime soon. Am anon is difficult at first. It takes a while to immerse yourself in this program
As he isn't giving you a break you need to be nice to yourself
Maresie
Your awareness is gold! You basically wrote.... when he did this... I reacted like that...
This honest awareness is what happens when we "wake up" and put on a clear set of glasses to see things as they really are. It didn't feel good for me either (((big hugs)))
Its like you told my story (like our husbands are twins!!) so I understand exactly how angry and bitter you are. And probably confused by the suggestions of Al-Anon, which were the exact opposite of what came natural to me.
I took the suggestions you've already been given, against my will at first but I figured if I could've figured out a way to deal with his alcoholism on my own, I certainly would have! I had hit my bottom, was entirely defeated trying to fight a battle I could NOT win. The members of Al-Anon validated me and told me I was not insane while confirming his behavior was very typically alcoholic. That was good to know even though I was still powerless over it.
Keep coming back. You are not crazy, my friend. Your husband has a disease that rears its ugly head from time to time, making him do selfish, self-seeking, dishonest, and fearful things... (people-pleasing comes from fear "they won't like me unless my wife looks like a perfect million bucks and I charm the pants off everybody..."
My husband was completely engrossed in appearances. I developed compassion for him when I realized he and I were BOTH two fearful human beings.
And yet not hopeless. Not with a power GREATER than alcoholism
-- Edited by 2HP on Sunday 10th of December 2017 05:08:03 PM
Your post reminded me of how my relationship used to be when I came into Al Anon. There was very little respect for each other on either side. One of the first things that helped me was to know that I don't have to accept unacceptable behaviour. My reflection on my experience was that when he would say something nasty or insulting I would react and say something equally nasty and insulting. What that did was take the focus off his action and put it right on me and my reaction. You see when I would retaliate/react and call him names back I was really behaving in a way that didn't fit with how I saw myself and that created a lot of guilt and shame on my part for my behaviour toward him. It also gave him something to throw back at me as to why he treated me the way that he did. And we would get stuck in this sick nasty loop. Then I came to Al Anon and my sponsor suggested this very simple phrase "Do not speak to me that way, I don't deserve it" and then I would walk away. Now I know that is not an earth shattering revelation but if you knew me then I was stubborn, outspoken, thought I knew everything and should set everyone straight and tell them off. My best friend said her favourite phrase of mine was "That's not how this is going to go". So for me to calmly say those words and walk away was like doing the opposite of everything I ever did in my entire life. But nothing had changed this dynamic that I had tried already so I decided to try it. No matter how much anger his comments stirred up in me I would say those words and leave or disengage (not read any further insulting text messages). I started to take care of myself because I was protecting myself from nasty comments and emotional upheaval. When I felt really bad I would do something really nice for myself. Once I stormed out the door and went for a pedicure lol. I would call al anon friends to talk about it with. I would go for a walk and get some exercise. I took extra good care of myself on those awful days. I inadvertently showed him respect by NOT calling him names back. And the amazing side effect was that he stopped the nasty comments, he treated me with more respect than I thought possible. I believe it was because I stopped accepting the unacceptable behaviour by refusing to continue to engage with him, by walking away, by telling him it was not ok to speak to me that way. I started to believe the words myself which sadly I didn't believe before. I also learned to value my emotional well being and nurture it. That made me a lot stronger. My relationship has changed drastically because of this program. My AH is still active in his disease. I still have some bad days but I have also learned to take care of myself and that is something that is always with me no matter what storm is on the horizon. It sounds like you have some awareness around this and that's amazing. Keep working your program you are doing great!
I think the progress is knowing when your boundaries are crossed. For most of my life I didn't know what a boundary was
I worked recently with a woman I had a lot of problems with.
The difference is first of all I no longer get swallowed whole by someone else acting out
The other difference of course is when I go home I have peace
When you live with an alcoholic you don't get a reprieve
Rather than counting how many times someone crosses my boundaries I focus on what I.can do to replenish myself
The new thing for me is I know this woman is not going to change. Going through life like a bull in a China shop works for her
I will not allow someone else to invade my serenity annoy meband irritate me perhaps.
The boundary issue is two sides. It is yoiur boundary thz t is also at risk. No one but no one gets me to the point of obsession anymore. I know where that goes.
I work really hard on creating space for myself to heal.
When I lived with an alcoholic it was non stop assault.
The replenishiung was out if exhaustion not health.
Maresie
Hey Elabella, the other folks would see the demons if they LIVED with the drinker...my X AH#1 was a total charmer with other folks because he could keep up the BS temporarily and he only saw them for temporary...I saw the real him....thats why when you date/courting with someone, lots of times they can "behave" enough to win your heart...EX AH#1 was on wagon when I met him..we had a blast, dating, then he started drinking shortly after we married and I was living with him and seeing the REAL him...Even B4 he started drinking again, LIVING with him, I saw signs but chose to ignore them...nasty insults, put downs, veiled slams but wtih a grin on his face, all of a sudden, or least I SAW it, I could not do anything right.........oh yea, he was soo popular with folks he worked with WHEN he worked, oh yea, mr. nice guy, but I LIVED with him and I saw this "mommie's boy" and what he really was like...Drunk, he was just worse.....so the "complete demons with the ones closest to them" to me has been because WE KNOW THEM....not just the "on good behavior" times, but we KNOW THEM.......and yea, its a choice to NOT get into recovery, to NOT want to change behavior that is destroying the good they have in their lives, to NOT reach out for help.....sometimes they have to get slammed by life real hard and be forced into recovery....others SEE themselves and they go get help....every alcoholic I have ever known, KNEW they could get help but just were not interested or not ready...My own brother TOLD ME flat out...."I want to drink--I dont want to quit---so I am not interested in AA" That was the last time I mentioned recovery with him and this was recent...I have distanced myself big time..I love him, but I hate what he is doing and yes, it is a disease, but to STAY in it is a choice...Like someone with diabetes..they can stuff their guts with sugar and perpetuate their illness and bring about their death, OR they can go to Dr., get on a diet, if correctable by diet, or take their insulin if they are severe, but they have that CHOICE.....why they choose NOT to help themselves?? is beyond me....yea, I feel compassion for anyone on a self destructive road, but I don't have to travel with them. and if I have to keep practicing detachment and all the other high maintenance survival stuff that goes with living with a NON recovering alcoholic, then whats the point for me???? what do I need to fix within me so I can have the life I deserve....I know some folks can successfully live with an alcoholic, but I think if they are abusive, not contributing financially , and causing all kinds of upheaval, a lot of them would "walk" I know I did..I knew there HAD to be a better life than what I was staying in.....And there was....it was recovery and finding ME .........Please keep coming back...We care about you and we're here
Al-Anon helped me find my words that were about me and not blaming, demeaning, condescending, etc. It's taken a ton of practice - I statements really help me stay focused on what my real message is. Keep processing and keep practicing - that's how it works!