Cheating and Never taking responsibility for what they do
CarlyH said
Nov 29, 2017
The past two weeks have been very difficult. Ive ended my relationship and any kind of friendship with ex AH.
I Know I shouldnt have expected it but I thought I least I would get some kind of remorse or a sorry.
Instead they are angry with me. I am practicing detachment and I am trying not to get embroiled in an argument but they know how to push the right buttons. Apparently its my fault they cheated, I stopped showing love. Ive waited to respond to this so that I can I respond without anger. my message back was Brutal, but you know what its probably been deleted And not read. Everytime I ever try and say anything the Phone gets put down on me.
Alcholism is an illness and I have had so much support to give throughout my relationship. Cheating is not an ilness. Ive had countless phone call with them crying down the ohone please dont leave me but i love you the most out of everyone ( oh thanks) I cant cope that your leaving me. Not once in any of phone calls was there a sorry I cheated on you. no responsibilty taken. All about how they are feeling.
What gets me through my days is that I look in the mirror and I think Im not a bad person, i deserve respect, you cant love someone who has no respect for you and its not that easy to detach from your partner who you still love so being friends is not an option. They will drag you back in.
Alcoholics are very manipulative they can be loving funny and with me I fell in love very quickly. And when I was treated bad I concentrated on all the things I loved about them.
Lots of People in the world are funny Ill find another person. I have been that low and felt so worthless recently I have felt like I didnt want to live anymore so when I got threaten last night that they would take their own life i said this.
if you dont go to AA and help yourself you are a danger to every single person who is near you, how does that feel? You play games and mess with people lives and mess with their heads. One day you will take that too far and it will be one of them that ends their life not you. You still have a chance to be a decent human being and stop hurting everyone and yourself by trying to get better and making it your responsibility to do that. You are a dangerous person when you drink - not only do drive but you get inside peoples heads and its wicked. i will pray everyday for you and anyone near to you that you get well.
do not contact me again.
And thats it. Ive probably been too harsh.....
hotrod said
Nov 29, 2017
((Carly)) As you have painfully discovered, Alcoholism is a dreadful, progressive disease over which we are powerless. Detaching, taking care of ourselves, meeting with alanon folk who can hear us, does help to ease the anxiety and pain of interacting with the insanity.
I found that having any expectations of the alcoholic simply gave them ammunition to do the opposite and prove they were strong and needed no one nor anything except the BOOZE. The AA program, like alanon suggests that members work the Steps in order to recover . It is in working the Steps they (and we) finally have the courage to look inward, deep within to see how we may have hurt others and then to move forward and make amends. I must caution you that my hubby was in AA for many, many years and never made direct amends to me, I on the other hand worked the Steps and became willing to let go of the pain and anger regardless of the .
other person's actions.I believe he felt that stopping drinking was amend enough
Please do keep coming back recovery from living with this disease takes time. You are not alone
CarlyH said
Nov 29, 2017
Thank you Betty
i think thats where my anger has built up as I have expected them to behave a certain way and its not happened.
In some ways I feel relieved. i Want to feel better and I do want to do my steps. I feel ill be able to move on with my life properly then.
hotrod said
Nov 29, 2017
I agree Carly Keep on taking care of yourself
SerenityRUS said
Nov 29, 2017
Hugs Carly,
I am so sorry you are hurting right this second. My XAH and I are so not on friendly terms and I do wish it was all flowers and candy .. it is not and part of that is exactly what you described, and of course I am the bad guy in this. I do have a part, there are many things I could have said mean what you say, say what you mean however don't say it mean (I am in the don't say it mean .. THINK thoughtful, honest, intelligent, necessary and kind, I usually hit THIN .. lol .. that K kicks my butt) as the major slogan in my life, he's not the only one with issues. I have to deal with my own demons. I did not pick him by accident. The hard part is we have kids together. I have done the majority of that on my own and I am currently reconciling more than one issue that has reared up at the moment and trying to figure out how to best support my oldest who is struggling with mental health issues.
My point was (not all about me .. LOL), that sometimes in the moment it is not the right time to be on friendly terms and should that door open 3 months ago I might have been open to it at the moment not so much for a variety of reasons. I don't believe I need to feel guilty about that fact .. it just is what it is, and he's a major jerk .. and I don't like him. That's my feelings and no one else needs to agree with my feelings because they aren't me. I admire the people who do actually like their A's that is a gift. I guess I'm not ready for that lesson at the moment.
I hope you will keep coming back so your awareness about you will grow and while may or may not move past those issues .. you can because you deserve to. It is hard when it's right around the holidays and the would have could have should have's roll in. Deal with your stuff and let him sit in his, that is just not your issue. You are your issue and YOU deserve to be happy, healthy, spiritually and mentally fit. It is ok not to like your ex at this point, maybe you will get there I certainly hope you get there sooner than I have. :)
Big hugs :)
Maresie said
Nov 29, 2017
I think it is one trait with an alcoholic to be in this rebellious mode. If you set s line with them they have to cross it.
The ex A was never unfaithful to me but he made a huge point of flaunting that his friendships took precedence over me
That included when I left and went to a motel to be away from his friends who were allowed free rein to our house
I had to set my own limits on the friends access.
I took it all very personally of course. I felt my whole self esteem was tied up in how they treated me.
Am anon is a great program to be in. My self esteem is all about #me# these days. No one else no boss no friend no one gets to diminish my self esteem. That is such a gift
My expectations are very different these days. If someone let's me down they don't get repeated chances to keep doing it.
I don't expect someone with an addiction to have my back.
Maresie
CarlyH said
Nov 30, 2017
Thanks for your replies everyone,
Im struggling now with the nasty things Ive said, shall I apologise ? Or is that giving them power ?
SerenityRUS said
Nov 30, 2017
It really depends on the situation for me.
Sometimes apologizing only leaves me open to the blame game. So I own my part and don't make excuses or justify my apology. If it gets thrown up in my face again so to speak then I am more apt to say I am sorry you feel that way I have apologized and I am trying to move forward.
So it really depends on whom I'm dealing with and where I am at. It helps to work with a sponsor on these issues so meetings help me decide what is the best route for me.
Hugs S :)
hotrod said
Nov 30, 2017
((Carly)) Be gentle with yourself and know the time will come for you to clear up the" wreckage of the past" You are not alone.
You have just started practicing program tools and as you move forward you will find that when working the Steps, you will arrive at a Step that suggests that we make amends for past behavior in order to relieve our guilt and shame. This step is Step 9 of the 12 Steps .
In order to clearly identify where we need to make amends, it is important to work all the Steps prior to 8 and 9 so that we do not continue to practice the behavior. Seeing our part in the insanity is often unsettling and is a gift of program. Making amends requires that we own our actions, and change our behavior.
Keep coming back
CarlyH said
Nov 30, 2017
Thank you Betty
pinkchip said
Nov 30, 2017
Not "telling" you what to do, but I feel like you meant what you wrote, so if you apologize for it, you will be dishonoring your truth and doing it to someone that has already dishonored YOU. I can see if he come back saying that your words hurt....something like "I know I may have come across bluntly, but I felt the urgency of what I needed to say outweighed possibly striking a chord. Sorry your feeling were hurt." For now, you put the ball in his own court. If he does not want to hear your truth, maybe he will learn to stop gaslighting you. Just my take.
Maresie said
Nov 30, 2017
I loved plenty of people who had no respect for me. I learned to love those kind of people in my childhood.
What I.came to see was that was a basic kind of love. A.more mature live is reciprocal.
The ex A absolutely expected unconditional love. That e was his definition. I was certainly looking for something that was absolutely unrealistic.
I have found when I apologize to an alcoholic who is.not in recovery they use it a s a weapon. Amanda can be made in different ways. I.no longer blurt.out mean nasty insults to people. I.certainlky think of them. Thgey.dont.come out of my mouth. I have h ad my tikme of ranting and raving
One thing I.got recently is without am anon my.emotions run on max volume. I richocet all over the place. I take everything extremely personally.
I lived on max volumne most of my life no wonder I.was always sick. These days I.have a dial. I.can diasl it down and dial it up. I.dont live on the max anymore.
On the max I am far more impetuous.
Maresie
CarlyH said
Dec 1, 2017
Thanks guys. My emotions are just all Over the place. I wonāt be apologising I
Did mean it. Like you said Iāll see if they get in touch and if they say it hurt them Iāll say I should have worded it different. I know what will happen now - they will not drink to prove a point, have a new girlfriend and Iāll be left well alone. Which is fine thatās the best thing for me anyway it will be doing me a favour.
Iām back on speaking terms With my childrenās Dad and we are getting on really well and spending Xmas together. Iāve ignored him and hardly spoken to him for around 6 months. Itās better than spending it on my own and the children are happy and who knows. I feel guilty as if Iāve jumped back into that relationship but he is the father of my kids and heās not an alcoholic. He is good person and a brilliant dad and I need to give this a go I think.
Jerry F said
Dec 1, 2017
Aloha Carly...WOW what a post with responses and I am grateful for my past in recovery and my relationships with those more sane and serene because they had put in the time on the steps and traditions working with old timers and elders. I learn that I must do the same or flounder with repeated mistakes I made before "coming to understand". Sponsorship I appears many here rush to your support which for me kinda sorta feels like sponsor ship and okay that is what I did also after my second entry into Al-Anon. I exploded my first attempt because my ego and self centeredness was stuck on ME!! And then the pain I felt and went thru before my second and final attempt to form a membership with the "world wide" fellowship of Al-Anon helped me to tuck my tail between my legs without humiliation and return with a far different attitude next. I listened to the suggestions and let go of trying to direct my own path in favor of turning all of me over to my Higher Power and the entire fellowship including literature and conventions and even college. Part way thru it helped me take my focus off of my alcoholic/addict as the blame for all things "poor Jerry" and take a sincere focus on the "whats my part in it" perception. Again that was ME but not as blameless partner. I've done 6 4th steps and attempted to direct them literally...SEARCHING...FEARLESS...MORAL. I did these with my sponsor and Higher Power and the fellowship I was entrenched with in the area I lived. I could not help but grow and the consequences were awesome. I became a little guy and not a weak one and became "part of" the journey in recovery rather than the one holding the lantern over the trail less others miss the trail.
My sponsor taught me in response to the question "what is your definition of humility"? ...Humility is being teachable, which to me says, "If I keep and open mind...I will find help". That statement at the closing of our face to face groups. It's true because I have found and received tons of help.
My alcoholic addict didn't "cheat" on me...she did what she thought she could and repeated what she use to do before we met. She had had her "Tom, Dick, and Harrys" before we met and after investigation on how we met my Sponsor helped me to add my name to her list. "...and Jerrys". Did it hurt?...nope...coming to understand my part in the disease...(hers and mind) I calmed down and made sure I would no longer be affected, mind, body, spirit and emotions in my future. I had made a poor choice based upon insanity and my sponsor told me..."when you find that you have made those mistakes, it is your responsibility to go back and change it". Make the amends to yourself and who ever else you find you have harmed and don't harm them further".
We have a responsibility statement in Al-Anon...that is the most important one for me including the inventory steps.
Good going on your journey...In support. ((((hugs))))
Maresie said
Dec 5, 2017
I have found it helps to be busy especially around the holidays
Some of the way I behaved in the past has not been great. These days I know what my triggers are. I.am much more careful around those triggers. I know how to treat lightly.
Making amends has primarily been to myself. I have heard people in 12 step rooms talk about making amends with resentment generally around owing money. Amends seem not a reason to crucify.yourself.
I keep.busy these days particularly on.days that are triggering.
Good.self care.is trial and.error. I have.yet to meet.an alcoholic who.has good self.care. That used to be a.trait I looked.for (unconsciously). Now.it is.a trait I am wary of.
Maresie
mamalioness said
Dec 5, 2017
Carly, I read what you said and I thought it was great!! to the point..no sugar coating, but I hope you did it for you and not hoping to reach him or "touch his heart" because he is in the disease thinking and nothing but recovery and step 4, HONEST step 4 is gonna wake him up....I, now, say stuff and it can be harsh, I don't do the apologizing thing anymore because I think b4 I say something and if it is something I need to say because someone was downright shi**y to me?? then I say what I say and let it go....Sometimes "kicking butt" verbally is needed....the ole say what you mean, mean what you say, but not say it mean, Yea, for the MOST part I agree, but there are those isolated times that I will "smoke" someone with a good verbal thrashing because it is therapy for me and MAYBE jolts them enough to think, but again...ZERO expectations on my part re: them...I do and say for me and my feelings...and SOME people just deserve to be verbally "beheaded" w/out cussing and being abusive and then I walk away from them...Your note to him was not abusive or self demeaning....and if you feel better?? Sometimes it is worth it to "straddle" that line...I may get scorned for writing this, but I am just speaking what is true for me....Please take what you can use from my post and dumpster the rest
CarlyH said
Dec 6, 2017
Thanks mama lioness
I got zero response from it, instead all Iāve seen is a load of social media stuff how they are organising this - inviting loads of people without me. 2 people from work have jumped on the band wagon to help Them now and their new partner as well. Who has been very unfriendly to me.
I wanted a response Iām not going to lie. But I didnāt expect one. Thatās how I cope now - I donāt expect anything. I want things but Iām not going to get them.
They will be determined not to drink now - more to show me that that they donāt need me - kind of a screw you attitude. You make me drink.
Iāve had up and down days this week- cried a lot. Iām really angry- a member of my family isnāt well and has moved in with me. Suffering with depression. I could have done with a comedian moving in to make me laugh but instead I have counselling to do.
Itās our works Xmas do next week, and Iām out in the cold. Sheās never in her life been this heartless to me but you know what the more I think back about things, it was me that would hold the olive branch out. I try everyday to remember itās a disease but when someone has hurt you so bad and is more interested in a load of strangers it cuts very deep. And everything theyāve ever said might not even be true- even the about loving you.
I do need to move on I know that. I just feel like an outsider to everything and everyone. I keep imagining that sheās will stop for good because sheās not with me and be really happy with this new person. Which is totally out of my control but that would just drive the knife further into my heart I think. Iām dreading what might happen which. Is the wrong way to think I know that.
The past two weeks have been very difficult. Ive ended my relationship and any kind of friendship with ex AH.
I Know I shouldnt have expected it but I thought I least I would get some kind of remorse or a sorry.
Instead they are angry with me. I am practicing detachment and I am trying not to get embroiled in an argument but they know how to push the right buttons. Apparently its my fault they cheated, I stopped showing love. Ive waited to respond to this so that I can I respond without anger. my message back was Brutal, but you know what its probably been deleted And not read. Everytime I ever try and say anything the Phone gets put down on me.
Alcholism is an illness and I have had so much support to give throughout my relationship. Cheating is not an ilness. Ive had countless phone call with them crying down the ohone please dont leave me but i love you the most out of everyone ( oh thanks) I cant cope that your leaving me. Not once in any of phone calls was there a sorry I cheated on you. no responsibilty taken. All about how they are feeling.
What gets me through my days is that I look in the mirror and I think Im not a bad person, i deserve respect, you cant love someone who has no respect for you and its not that easy to detach from your partner who you still love so being friends is not an option. They will drag you back in.
Alcoholics are very manipulative they can be loving funny and with me I fell in love very quickly. And when I was treated bad I concentrated on all the things I loved about them.
Lots of People in the world are funny Ill find another person. I have been that low and felt so worthless recently I have felt like I didnt want to live anymore so when I got threaten last night that they would take their own life i said this.
if you dont go to AA and help yourself you are a danger to every single person who is near you, how does that feel? You play games and mess with people lives and mess with their heads. One day you will take that too far and it will be one of them that ends their life not you. You still have a chance to be a decent human being and stop hurting everyone and yourself by trying to get better and making it your responsibility to do that. You are a dangerous person when you drink - not only do drive but you get inside peoples heads and its wicked. i will pray everyday for you and anyone near to you that you get well.
do not contact me again.
And thats it. Ive probably been too harsh.....
Thank you Betty
i think thats where my anger has built up as I have expected them to behave a certain way and its not happened.
In some ways I feel relieved. i Want to feel better and I do want to do my steps. I feel ill be able to move on with my life properly then.
I am so sorry you are hurting right this second. My XAH and I are so not on friendly terms and I do wish it was all flowers and candy .. it is not and part of that is exactly what you described, and of course I am the bad guy in this. I do have a part, there are many things I could have said mean what you say, say what you mean however don't say it mean (I am in the don't say it mean .. THINK thoughtful, honest, intelligent, necessary and kind, I usually hit THIN .. lol .. that K kicks my butt) as the major slogan in my life, he's not the only one with issues. I have to deal with my own demons. I did not pick him by accident. The hard part is we have kids together. I have done the majority of that on my own and I am currently reconciling more than one issue that has reared up at the moment and trying to figure out how to best support my oldest who is struggling with mental health issues.
My point was (not all about me .. LOL), that sometimes in the moment it is not the right time to be on friendly terms and should that door open 3 months ago I might have been open to it at the moment not so much for a variety of reasons. I don't believe I need to feel guilty about that fact .. it just is what it is, and he's a major jerk .. and I don't like him. That's my feelings and no one else needs to agree with my feelings because they aren't me. I admire the people who do actually like their A's that is a gift. I guess I'm not ready for that lesson at the moment.
I hope you will keep coming back so your awareness about you will grow and while may or may not move past those issues .. you can because you deserve to. It is hard when it's right around the holidays and the would have could have should have's roll in. Deal with your stuff and let him sit in his, that is just not your issue. You are your issue and YOU deserve to be happy, healthy, spiritually and mentally fit. It is ok not to like your ex at this point, maybe you will get there I certainly hope you get there sooner than I have. :)
Big hugs :)
I think it is one trait with an alcoholic to be in this rebellious mode. If you set s line with them they have to cross it.
The ex A was never unfaithful to me but he made a huge point of flaunting that his friendships took precedence over me
That included when I left and went to a motel to be away from his friends who were allowed free rein to our house
I had to set my own limits on the friends access.
I took it all very personally of course. I felt my whole self esteem was tied up in how they treated me.
Am anon is a great program to be in. My self esteem is all about #me# these days. No one else no boss no friend no one gets to diminish my self esteem. That is such a gift
My expectations are very different these days. If someone let's me down they don't get repeated chances to keep doing it.
I don't expect someone with an addiction to have my back.
Maresie
Im struggling now with the nasty things Ive said, shall I apologise ? Or is that giving them power ?
Sometimes apologizing only leaves me open to the blame game. So I own my part and don't make excuses or justify my apology. If it gets thrown up in my face again so to speak then I am more apt to say I am sorry you feel that way I have apologized and I am trying to move forward.
So it really depends on whom I'm dealing with and where I am at. It helps to work with a sponsor on these issues so meetings help me decide what is the best route for me.
Hugs S :)
You have just started practicing program tools and as you move forward you will find that when working the Steps, you will arrive at a Step that suggests that we make amends for past behavior in order to relieve our guilt and shame. This step is Step 9 of the 12 Steps .
In order to clearly identify where we need to make amends, it is important to work all the Steps prior to 8 and 9 so that we do not continue to practice the behavior. Seeing our part in the insanity is often unsettling and is a gift of program. Making amends requires that we own our actions, and change our behavior.
Keep coming back
I loved plenty of people who had no respect for me. I learned to love those kind of people in my childhood.
What I.came to see was that was a basic kind of love. A.more mature live is reciprocal.
The ex A absolutely expected unconditional love. That e was his definition. I was certainly looking for something that was absolutely unrealistic.
I have found when I apologize to an alcoholic who is.not in recovery they use it a s a weapon. Amanda can be made in different ways. I.no longer blurt.out mean nasty insults to people. I.certainlky think of them. Thgey.dont.come out of my mouth. I have h ad my tikme of ranting and raving
One thing I.got recently is without am anon my.emotions run on max volume. I richocet all over the place. I take everything extremely personally.
I lived on max volumne most of my life no wonder I.was always sick. These days I.have a dial. I.can diasl it down and dial it up. I.dont live on the max anymore.
On the max I am far more impetuous.
Maresie
Aloha Carly...WOW what a post with responses and I am grateful for my past in recovery and my relationships with those more sane and serene because they had put in the time on the steps and traditions working with old timers and elders. I learn that I must do the same or flounder with repeated mistakes I made before "coming to understand". Sponsorship I appears many here rush to your support which for me kinda sorta feels like sponsor ship and okay that is what I did also after my second entry into Al-Anon. I exploded my first attempt because my ego and self centeredness was stuck on ME!! And then the pain I felt and went thru before my second and final attempt to form a membership with the "world wide" fellowship of Al-Anon helped me to tuck my tail between my legs without humiliation and return with a far different attitude next. I listened to the suggestions and let go of trying to direct my own path in favor of turning all of me over to my Higher Power and the entire fellowship including literature and conventions and even college. Part way thru it helped me take my focus off of my alcoholic/addict as the blame for all things "poor Jerry" and take a sincere focus on the "whats my part in it" perception. Again that was ME but not as blameless partner. I've done 6 4th steps and attempted to direct them literally...SEARCHING...FEARLESS...MORAL. I did these with my sponsor and Higher Power and the fellowship I was entrenched with in the area I lived. I could not help but grow and the consequences were awesome. I became a little guy and not a weak one and became "part of" the journey in recovery rather than the one holding the lantern over the trail less others miss the trail.
My sponsor taught me in response to the question "what is your definition of humility"? ...Humility is being teachable, which to me says, "If I keep and open mind...I will find help". That statement at the closing of our face to face groups. It's true because I have found and received tons of help.
My alcoholic addict didn't "cheat" on me...she did what she thought she could and repeated what she use to do before we met. She had had her "Tom, Dick, and Harrys" before we met and after investigation on how we met my Sponsor helped me to add my name to her list. "...and Jerrys". Did it hurt?...nope...coming to understand my part in the disease...(hers and mind) I calmed down and made sure I would no longer be affected, mind, body, spirit and emotions in my future. I had made a poor choice based upon insanity and my sponsor told me..."when you find that you have made those mistakes, it is your responsibility to go back and change it". Make the amends to yourself and who ever else you find you have harmed and don't harm them further".
We have a responsibility statement in Al-Anon...that is the most important one for me including the inventory steps.
Good going on your journey...In support. ((((hugs))))
I have found it helps to be busy especially around the holidays
Some of the way I behaved in the past has not been great. These days I know what my triggers are. I.am much more careful around those triggers. I know how to treat lightly.
Making amends has primarily been to myself. I have heard people in 12 step rooms talk about making amends with resentment generally around owing money. Amends seem not a reason to crucify.yourself.
I keep.busy these days particularly on.days that are triggering.
Good.self care.is trial and.error. I have.yet to meet.an alcoholic who.has good self.care. That used to be a.trait I looked.for (unconsciously). Now.it is.a trait I am wary of.
Maresie
Carly, I read what you said and I thought it was great!! to the point..no sugar coating, but I hope you did it for you and not hoping to reach him or "touch his heart" because he is in the disease thinking and nothing but recovery and step 4, HONEST step 4 is gonna wake him up....I, now, say stuff and it can be harsh, I don't do the apologizing thing anymore because I think b4 I say something and if it is something I need to say because someone was downright shi**y to me?? then I say what I say and let it go....Sometimes "kicking butt" verbally is needed....the ole say what you mean, mean what you say, but not say it mean, Yea, for the MOST part I agree, but there are those isolated times that I will "smoke" someone with a good verbal thrashing because it is therapy for me and MAYBE jolts them enough to think, but again...ZERO expectations on my part re: them...I do and say for me and my feelings...and SOME people just deserve to be verbally "beheaded" w/out cussing and being abusive and then I walk away from them...Your note to him was not abusive or self demeaning....and if you feel better?? Sometimes it is worth it to "straddle" that line...I may get scorned for writing this, but I am just speaking what is true for me....Please take what you can use from my post and dumpster the rest