He spends money on things for himself regardless of whether we can afford it or not, when he wants to he just takes the money.
He shoplifts and drinks and uses porn. He claims he has stopped now...
He is angry and depressed a lot of the time. He speaks to me rudely and angrily all the time.
He doesn't clean the house.
He looks after our son and complains about it. Like it's so hard for him. I mean it is hard, but what does he want? If he got a job we could have a babysitter and that would make things easier.
I have been trying to put myself first and not think about him as much. But suddenly I am just so angry. I asked him to clean up the kitchen after I came home from work today. It wasn't cleaned. I asked again. And then again. He does a crappy job and then goes to do something for himself. I know it was a mistake now. We ended up having a fight and I could have just done it faster myself.
I don't understand what I am doing in this relationship. He can be sweet, and I used to think he was attractive, but I don't actually think we are all that compatible any more.
The only reason I am still with him is because we have a son together.
I wanted to ask people, why did you stay? How did you combine the focus on what's good for you with staying with the alcoholic in your life? Was it always in the context of them also recovering? Did you decided it wasn't worth it to divorce because they had many good traits? Was it mainly for the children? Religious reasons?
-- Edited by AnnieFenk321 on Monday 27th of November 2017 07:07:21 AM
Aline said
Nov 27, 2017
Hi, Annie. I think my reasons for staying changed over time. When I began to realize there was a problem with drinking I though we could handle it. Neither of us could, though. Things were getting worse and worse. Later, when I was already in Alanon for some months I realized one crazy night what kept me there. Mostly it was fear... Unfortunately at that point I don't think much love was left in me, although there is still some. I was afraid of his reaction to me leaving, I imagined the blaming, anger, and I was afraid of what his family would think... I am trying to learn that F.E.A.R. - false evidence appearing real. This is an ongoing lesson for me. At the time I was sure my fears would become reality... A situation at home made me face the fact that it was largely fear that was keeping me there, and it was a painful realization, but very necessary to move towards healing. I'm sure others have different reasons for staying and different situations. This is my experience. Take what you like an leave the rest. In support, A. Keep coming back :)
Skorpi said
Nov 27, 2017
Hi Annie,
Thank you for your share. I can really identify with your frustrations at your husband's actions. (or lack of them...)
This weekend, my wife and I were going to paint. I needed to get things set up, so I did. Then, it was noon. She was grumpy because it was so late. I did the trim, she did the roller, but we were painting paneling, so I also had to paint all the groves as well. Lots of trim. And, we had to prime the walls first, because the color was so dark. (best described as a gross shade of mud). She fizzled. I kept painting until the primer was all done and the dark blue accent wall was done. The next day, we went shopping in the morning (lowest prices of the year on dog toys, could not pass it up. And a great yarn sale as well.) We got home, ate lunch, then she went to couch sitting for the evening, and I did all the trim and paneling groves of the three light walls (2 windows, 2 doors) It was 9 pm, and I was exhausted. Family event the following day for her family, I did all the sides and desserts. Starting at 5 am at our house, finishing at 2 pm at her aunt's. Yesterday, she used a roller on the paneling, got into "music mode" and blared music for the next 6 hours, all the while carrying on a conversation with herself "do you remember this? do you like this one? Did you know this artist.... I love this song. SING IT!" while I painted the benches, scrubbed the floor (she didn't put down anything to catch the paint splatter), removed the painter's tape, pretended to answer her ("no, not really, oh."), and put the room back together. Honestly, the project would have taken me a day and a half alone. Working together, it took 5, and we are not done yet.
When she was actively drinking, I stayed because I was not ready to make a decision to leave. Now, I stay for different reasons. She's found recovery, she is doing her best, and she's one of my best friends. I don't necessarily want to live alone. She knows me better than anyone else. She is growing with me. We have ten years of shared memories, and we have shared goals and dreams for the future. I do make a decision each day whether I am staying or not, and some days I decide that I am not ready to make a decision. For me, it isn't about deciding for life if I am going to be with her or not, but it is about deciding for today. When I decided to take things one day at a time, and make the decision one day at a time, it took some of the pressure off me. Just because I decide to stay today doesn't mean that I have to decide to stay tomorrow.
Iamhere said
Nov 27, 2017
Great question and the easiest answer for me is that I love him. I hate the disease and I despise many things resulting from the disease but at the end of the day, I committed to this man and this marriage, and I intend to stay. I too do the best I can to stay in the day/present and not dwell on the past or the future.
The One Day at a Time, and accepting myself and others as imperfect humans has given me the freedom to focus on progress and not perfection. I apply this to myself, my program, my projects, my cleaning, etc. One of the biggest reasons I was so full of fear, anxiety, anger, sadness, etc. - I expected way too much - from self as well as others. I really, really had many fairy-tale ideas of what a marriage, family, house, etc. should look like and had to realize there is no OSFA (One Size Fits All) for anything in our human existence.
So - staying or leaving - both are choices that we do have, and as we work recovery, focus on self and needs, many find their answers and take action based on needs/facts instead of emotions/events. I have always been a runner - when things get/got bad, I was ready to walk/run out the door. I did this for most of my life and felt it was the healthy choice at the time. What I found in me is that each time I did this, I did find relief but I never/rarely learned or grew as I was unwilling/unable to see what my part in the downfall was. It was so much easier to look outside myself for the cause and reasons. Today, I view all 'life experiences' - pleasant/unpleasant as opportunities to learn and grow. While I was starting out, and working on changing me, I really leaned into my sponsor - she suggested time and time again that the adult/healthy response when I was considering cleaning the kitchen or taking a walk was the latter. She said over and over again that the kitchen can wait and I was of little value to others/self if I did not learn how to nurture/love self. It did not feel normal, right or logical to me then - to stroll with the dog in the sunshine with HP but I did what was suggested.
Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery!!
Lyne said
Nov 27, 2017
Welcome. I used to be obsessed with whether or not to stay with my A spouse. We have been together for 26 years. As others have said, my reasons for staying have changed over time. At first my self-esteem was so beaten down I don't think I could have survived alone. Alanon taught me I didn't have to make up my mind right away. I worked on myself and now am much stronger, love myself, and see many assets where I used to see none. The saga is too long to write, but I've been in program over 4 years and this past spring when my A drank and drove, I decided I was done. I told my spouse she had the choice of getting some serious help, or I would be moving on. We are actually in help now together and separately. We both attend a program. She has been sober since April. Are things perfect? Heck no . But they are better, and I have some hope for the future. Progress not perfection is one of our slogans. Keep coming back. Help and health are available to those who stick with it, Lyne
andromeda said
Nov 27, 2017
Annie, if you do a search here on the boards you may find other threads about why we stay.....or stayed.
I stayed for financial stability. I stayed for our son because I thought I could protect him from my XAH's craziness better than if we had joint custody. I stayed because I knew my XAH and I knew he would fight me hard in court and I knew I needed to be mentally and emotionally stronger to fight back. I knew I wasn't ready yet for quite some time. I stayed because I also didn't know what was out there, all fear based. I was married for 20 years, but I felt like I should have left at the 10 year mark, when our son was 7. I left 6 months before our 20 year wedding anniversary. I hadn't worked for 16 years and I'm still struggling financially, but I've moved on and I am grateful I left. But, I had to leave when I was ready and not a minute sooner. So, I just stayed. I wrote up a plan. I worked my program. And, I stayed.......until I couldn't stay any longer....and all the while I prayed for my XAH to get sober, to find a better path for himself, and for him to just maybe see the light and do his part to help me fix US. He didn't. He couldn't. He wasn't ready. So I left and divorced him. Hugs, just remember that you only get one life. Please keep reaching out to us here.
SerenityRUS said
Nov 27, 2017
Hugs and welcome,
I totally agree, the reasons ebb and flow. At first I thought I could keep my family together and I was to afraid of change. Then the financial burdens, his legal troubles, and so on were not worth it. I think everyone has a different breaking point so to speak and I say you know when you know that you are done. That was a true statement for me. It actually wasn't the drinking, my X was working and providing for us. Mine was my behavior with the kids and then that and the combination of his affair/s. That was the straw that was the last one for me.
It wasn't until I was ready that I made the leap and even then I still hung on to a hope that he would and could find help, that wasn't his path with me. The only regret I can say I have is I should have left sooner and not later. I got there when I needed to and when enough was to much for me.
Keep coming back lots of great wisdom on the boards.
Hugs S :)
Jerry F said
Nov 27, 2017
Aloha Annie what a great post one which brings back and brought back so many memories and feelings for this family member. I didn't have just one alcoholic to think about staying with or moving away from. I was born into the disease and my family of origin including myself was so sickly woven. I didn't know anything about alcoholism, didn't know and didn`t even know that I didn't' know. I use to describe myself as dumb as a stick until I learned that is not a nice or healthy perception of anyone affected by our life threatening disease. Yes our disease is fatal not only for the drinker and also for the non-drinker. I was both and now occupy both programs. I needed to understand before making a decision because I had history with dating and marrying women I drank with expecting blissful life afterwards. Our mental and emotional conditioning is most rightfully described as insanity and I committed to that description and condition when I committed to Al-Anon one day at a time. I had to get and understand the definition of alcoholism at first and most of it fit me to a tee. How then could I decide to stay or leave I didn't know how to do either so I kept coming back with new partners and the old problem getting worse each time.
I was my worse problem and that is what/who I had to correct before anything. My then sponsor suggested "Jerry you are going to have to move off from all things alcohol" so I left my family and my alcoholic/addict wife and gave up drinking people, places and things. I was done and I screamed UNCLE!! for the second time in my life where the only time I shouted that was when I couldn't win a fight I was in except to just quit fighting it.
I already knew the trauma of staying and the insanity of alcoholism that triggered me doing that. She drank, used and had affairs and then stopped for a while and I thought it was over for good and ever. That description is found in the "cunning, powerful and baffling" part of our understanding and I was left so very often with saying the question "WHY??" over and over while my sponsor taught me that "the only answer to the question why in the disease of alcoholism is another WHY". That was so very true for and of me and to stop doing that the program gave me, "It is what it is". I didn't have to have the answer..."it didn't matter",
I learned too that there were and would be consequences to every thing I did and didn't do and my sponsor taught me "So make up your mind about the consequence you want and then do what it takes to get it. That is what I did. I chose my consequence and then set up a plan to get that. My consequences today so very often include the affects of having a Higher Power in my life 24/7 and a sponsor who knows me and where I have come from...my story. I don't play games with either entity I have no desire to go back to the insanity of this disease and trying to survive it as I use to. I know what works for my sanity and sobriety today and that is what I do.
It is true that I can only live one day at a time and knowing how I want to do that is best. I keep the frustrations to a minimum including having an alcoholic in my life. The only alcoholics in my life are those who work on sobriety as I do. Those still practicing the disease are somewhere else that they decide to be...their choice and I don't interfere with the choice. I have my own to make.
I an glad you have found the MIP family...there is so much healing here. ((((hugs)))
AnnieFenk321 said
Nov 28, 2017
Thanks everyone for your shares. some of them really resonated with me, and others gave me important things to think about.
I think that what I am slowly learning is that there is a lot of recovery that I need to do, emphasis on MY recovery that I need to do, before I can start making decisions about staying or going.
I resonated with what someone said about being the kind of person who runs from situations. I was born I guess with a lot of personal energy and I am the kind of person in my education and workplace who "makes things happen." I have been applying this ethic to my personal life with no success. I can't control my husband no matter how hard I try and it's important for me to slowly realise that I also can't "make things happen" for this family alone.
Thanks everyone again.
Maresie said
Nov 28, 2017
#Making things happoen# is a very hard thing to do when you are in a relationship with an alcoholic. It is important to be patient kind and loving to yourself.
My younger sister has been a functional.alcoholic for decades. She is great at making things happen. Her life is a whirl of activity. In the meantime her health is declining
The really effective change becoming aware of dysfunctional patterns getting healthy both psychologically and physically doesn't happen over night. The whole issue of boundaries is not that straight forward to deal with. Real change on holding boundaries does not happen over night.
Women in particular are applauded for being caregivers loving and kind to others. We are not celebrated for being resilient. Pro active and self sufficient.
I really believed being a doormat to others and doing things I didn't want to d's the epitome of #love# I put a tremendous amount of energy into it. It was loving to everynone but myself.
When I woke up in the morning my.first thoughts were about #others#
My husband doesn't work.
He spends money on things for himself regardless of whether we can afford it or not, when he wants to he just takes the money.
He shoplifts and drinks and uses porn. He claims he has stopped now...
He is angry and depressed a lot of the time. He speaks to me rudely and angrily all the time.
He doesn't clean the house.
He looks after our son and complains about it. Like it's so hard for him. I mean it is hard, but what does he want? If he got a job we could have a babysitter and that would make things easier.
I have been trying to put myself first and not think about him as much. But suddenly I am just so angry. I asked him to clean up the kitchen after I came home from work today. It wasn't cleaned. I asked again. And then again. He does a crappy job and then goes to do something for himself. I know it was a mistake now. We ended up having a fight and I could have just done it faster myself.
I don't understand what I am doing in this relationship. He can be sweet, and I used to think he was attractive, but I don't actually think we are all that compatible any more.
The only reason I am still with him is because we have a son together.
I wanted to ask people, why did you stay? How did you combine the focus on what's good for you with staying with the alcoholic in your life? Was it always in the context of them also recovering? Did you decided it wasn't worth it to divorce because they had many good traits? Was it mainly for the children? Religious reasons?
-- Edited by AnnieFenk321 on Monday 27th of November 2017 07:07:21 AM
Thank you for your share. I can really identify with your frustrations at your husband's actions. (or lack of them...)
This weekend, my wife and I were going to paint. I needed to get things set up, so I did. Then, it was noon. She was grumpy because it was so late. I did the trim, she did the roller, but we were painting paneling, so I also had to paint all the groves as well. Lots of trim. And, we had to prime the walls first, because the color was so dark. (best described as a gross shade of mud). She fizzled. I kept painting until the primer was all done and the dark blue accent wall was done. The next day, we went shopping in the morning (lowest prices of the year on dog toys, could not pass it up. And a great yarn sale as well.) We got home, ate lunch, then she went to couch sitting for the evening, and I did all the trim and paneling groves of the three light walls (2 windows, 2 doors) It was 9 pm, and I was exhausted. Family event the following day for her family, I did all the sides and desserts. Starting at 5 am at our house, finishing at 2 pm at her aunt's. Yesterday, she used a roller on the paneling, got into "music mode" and blared music for the next 6 hours, all the while carrying on a conversation with herself "do you remember this? do you like this one? Did you know this artist.... I love this song. SING IT!" while I painted the benches, scrubbed the floor (she didn't put down anything to catch the paint splatter), removed the painter's tape, pretended to answer her ("no, not really, oh."), and put the room back together. Honestly, the project would have taken me a day and a half alone. Working together, it took 5, and we are not done yet.
When she was actively drinking, I stayed because I was not ready to make a decision to leave. Now, I stay for different reasons. She's found recovery, she is doing her best, and she's one of my best friends. I don't necessarily want to live alone. She knows me better than anyone else. She is growing with me. We have ten years of shared memories, and we have shared goals and dreams for the future. I do make a decision each day whether I am staying or not, and some days I decide that I am not ready to make a decision. For me, it isn't about deciding for life if I am going to be with her or not, but it is about deciding for today. When I decided to take things one day at a time, and make the decision one day at a time, it took some of the pressure off me. Just because I decide to stay today doesn't mean that I have to decide to stay tomorrow.
The One Day at a Time, and accepting myself and others as imperfect humans has given me the freedom to focus on progress and not perfection. I apply this to myself, my program, my projects, my cleaning, etc. One of the biggest reasons I was so full of fear, anxiety, anger, sadness, etc. - I expected way too much - from self as well as others. I really, really had many fairy-tale ideas of what a marriage, family, house, etc. should look like and had to realize there is no OSFA (One Size Fits All) for anything in our human existence.
So - staying or leaving - both are choices that we do have, and as we work recovery, focus on self and needs, many find their answers and take action based on needs/facts instead of emotions/events. I have always been a runner - when things get/got bad, I was ready to walk/run out the door. I did this for most of my life and felt it was the healthy choice at the time. What I found in me is that each time I did this, I did find relief but I never/rarely learned or grew as I was unwilling/unable to see what my part in the downfall was. It was so much easier to look outside myself for the cause and reasons. Today, I view all 'life experiences' - pleasant/unpleasant as opportunities to learn and grow. While I was starting out, and working on changing me, I really leaned into my sponsor - she suggested time and time again that the adult/healthy response when I was considering cleaning the kitchen or taking a walk was the latter. She said over and over again that the kitchen can wait and I was of little value to others/self if I did not learn how to nurture/love self. It did not feel normal, right or logical to me then - to stroll with the dog in the sunshine with HP but I did what was suggested.
Keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery!!
I stayed for financial stability. I stayed for our son because I thought I could protect him from my XAH's craziness better than if we had joint custody. I stayed because I knew my XAH and I knew he would fight me hard in court and I knew I needed to be mentally and emotionally stronger to fight back. I knew I wasn't ready yet for quite some time. I stayed because I also didn't know what was out there, all fear based. I was married for 20 years, but I felt like I should have left at the 10 year mark, when our son was 7. I left 6 months before our 20 year wedding anniversary. I hadn't worked for 16 years and I'm still struggling financially, but I've moved on and I am grateful I left. But, I had to leave when I was ready and not a minute sooner. So, I just stayed. I wrote up a plan. I worked my program. And, I stayed.......until I couldn't stay any longer....and all the while I prayed for my XAH to get sober, to find a better path for himself, and for him to just maybe see the light and do his part to help me fix US. He didn't. He couldn't. He wasn't ready. So I left and divorced him. Hugs, just remember that you only get one life. Please keep reaching out to us here.
I totally agree, the reasons ebb and flow. At first I thought I could keep my family together and I was to afraid of change. Then the financial burdens, his legal troubles, and so on were not worth it. I think everyone has a different breaking point so to speak and I say you know when you know that you are done. That was a true statement for me. It actually wasn't the drinking, my X was working and providing for us. Mine was my behavior with the kids and then that and the combination of his affair/s. That was the straw that was the last one for me.
It wasn't until I was ready that I made the leap and even then I still hung on to a hope that he would and could find help, that wasn't his path with me. The only regret I can say I have is I should have left sooner and not later. I got there when I needed to and when enough was to much for me.
Keep coming back lots of great wisdom on the boards.
Hugs S :)
Aloha Annie what a great post one which brings back and brought back so many memories and feelings for this family member. I didn't have just one alcoholic to think about staying with or moving away from. I was born into the disease and my family of origin including myself was so sickly woven. I didn't know anything about alcoholism, didn't know and didn`t even know that I didn't' know. I use to describe myself as dumb as a stick until I learned that is not a nice or healthy perception of anyone affected by our life threatening disease. Yes our disease is fatal not only for the drinker and also for the non-drinker. I was both and now occupy both programs. I needed to understand before making a decision because I had history with dating and marrying women I drank with expecting blissful life afterwards. Our mental and emotional conditioning is most rightfully described as insanity and I committed to that description and condition when I committed to Al-Anon one day at a time. I had to get and understand the definition of alcoholism at first and most of it fit me to a tee. How then could I decide to stay or leave I didn't know how to do either so I kept coming back with new partners and the old problem getting worse each time.
I was my worse problem and that is what/who I had to correct before anything. My then sponsor suggested "Jerry you are going to have to move off from all things alcohol" so I left my family and my alcoholic/addict wife and gave up drinking people, places and things. I was done and I screamed UNCLE!! for the second time in my life where the only time I shouted that was when I couldn't win a fight I was in except to just quit fighting it.
I already knew the trauma of staying and the insanity of alcoholism that triggered me doing that. She drank, used and had affairs and then stopped for a while and I thought it was over for good and ever. That description is found in the "cunning, powerful and baffling" part of our understanding and I was left so very often with saying the question "WHY??" over and over while my sponsor taught me that "the only answer to the question why in the disease of alcoholism is another WHY". That was so very true for and of me and to stop doing that the program gave me, "It is what it is". I didn't have to have the answer..."it didn't matter",
I learned too that there were and would be consequences to every thing I did and didn't do and my sponsor taught me "So make up your mind about the consequence you want and then do what it takes to get it. That is what I did. I chose my consequence and then set up a plan to get that. My consequences today so very often include the affects of having a Higher Power in my life 24/7 and a sponsor who knows me and where I have come from...my story. I don't play games with either entity I have no desire to go back to the insanity of this disease and trying to survive it as I use to. I know what works for my sanity and sobriety today and that is what I do.
It is true that I can only live one day at a time and knowing how I want to do that is best. I keep the frustrations to a minimum including having an alcoholic in my life. The only alcoholics in my life are those who work on sobriety as I do. Those still practicing the disease are somewhere else that they decide to be...their choice and I don't interfere with the choice. I have my own to make.
I an glad you have found the MIP family...there is so much healing here. ((((hugs)))
I think that what I am slowly learning is that there is a lot of recovery that I need to do, emphasis on MY recovery that I need to do, before I can start making decisions about staying or going.
I resonated with what someone said about being the kind of person who runs from situations. I was born I guess with a lot of personal energy and I am the kind of person in my education and workplace who "makes things happen." I have been applying this ethic to my personal life with no success. I can't control my husband no matter how hard I try and it's important for me to slowly realise that I also can't "make things happen" for this family alone.
Thanks everyone again.
#Making things happoen# is a very hard thing to do when you are in a relationship with an alcoholic. It is important to be patient kind and loving to yourself.
My younger sister has been a functional.alcoholic for decades. She is great at making things happen. Her life is a whirl of activity. In the meantime her health is declining
The really effective change becoming aware of dysfunctional patterns getting healthy both psychologically and physically doesn't happen over night. The whole issue of boundaries is not that straight forward to deal with. Real change on holding boundaries does not happen over night.
Women in particular are applauded for being caregivers loving and kind to others. We are not celebrated for being resilient. Pro active and self sufficient.
I really believed being a doormat to others and doing things I didn't want to d's the epitome of #love# I put a tremendous amount of energy into it. It was loving to everynone but myself.
When I woke up in the morning my.first thoughts were about #others#
Maresie