My daughter in having contact with her dad has once again had another bad episode of the anxiety/Tourette's. It was really bad. Of course she didn't tell me and that irritates me more than anything because someone who has known her 3 months and has not lived the situation with her has all of the information.
So part of her behavior has been secrecy which is so not on the list .. I don't need to know the intimate details of her life .. however .. since I'm paying for her meds/therapy .. I do kind of need to know about her issues that are going on.
That being said she's a little freaked out over the fact she's missing time. Large blocks of time and I can relate .. when I was going through a very painful adolescence and dealing with my abusive step dad there are things I can't tell you. It was like having a walking blackout and there was zero drinking involved .. it was about emotional survival .. I feel awful that she's got that going on as an adult at the moment.
Her worry is that her dad abused her sexually. Honestly .. I can't think of a time where he was with her alone for any length of time. Even when he had them for visitation her brother and her were always together. They usually shared a room and so on. Now he did do things that were inappropriate .. he ran around naked with the mindset that they were kids they wouldn't remember and I had said to him .. you can't do that now (my daughter was 9 at the time) we are not nudist and this is not the norm of the household .. he also did things like tried to have sex with me with the door open to our bedroom and I never understood that .. I would get up and shut it. The bedrooms were all close together on the same side of the house.
He didn't do the grooming behavior .. he didn't insist on giving her a bath .. he didn't make her sit on his lap .. he didn't force things like that .. he just did the naked thing and it was with both of the kids so he never singled one out. The kids shared a bed for a long time because the farm was so dang cold that again .. my daughter was never alone in that regard.
Now after we separated it's not like I was running around with different men. I didn't even date until I moved to TX. So there were no men in and out of their lives. I have not heard of issues from their old school.
So I know that the fear is very real to her and even she's admitted she's not sure of anything .. so is she inserting memories or what? Those are her thoughts not mine.
She's finally agreed to some more therapy in terms of some trauma therapy and I continue to suggest alanon .. she just won't go. I'm willing to do the EMDR if we can find a place that will take her off of my EAP and her dad's EAP.
I'm wondering and I already know what a bad idea this will be .. however .. I want to discuss this with him and we all know how that will go. What should I do?
Do I bring it up to him? Do I let him know she's having these issues? I mean she can't have a conversation with him without having an episode and even she admitted that she wanted to prove me wrong about her contact with him and her mental health that she stuffed her anxiety a LOT over the last month.
Has anyone dealt with this situation before?
My missing memories were never attached to the sexual abuse .. mine were family vacations, fights, things that had trauma attached and trust me life with my sdad was one trauma after another. It was a lot of emotional trauma that was attached to my mom.
Hugs S :)
Lele said
Nov 24, 2017
first off, sending hope to you and your daughter!! I can't give advice on all of this bc this situation is quite different from my own but there still could be times that sexual abuse may have occurred. it's hard to talk about these kinds of things and I can't give a definitive answer bc I'm not in the situation but talking when you're not ready is so hard, and I'm sure when she's ready she will open up it just takes time sometimes.
Iamhere said
Nov 25, 2017
Serenity - I am sending you tons of support. It is so hard to watch our kids in pain. It sounds to me like you're doing what you can in engaging professionals. I believe you've also answered your own questions about engaging with your X. At times like this, I often pull out the 'When in doubt, don't'...slogan. It helps to remind me that more will be revealed and the right time will be included.
(((Hugs))) - sending prayers for all of you!
SoggySlippers said
Nov 25, 2017
SerenityRUS wrote:
Her worry is that her dad abused her sexually. Honestly .. I can't think of a time where he was with her alone for any length of time. Even when he had them for visitation her brother and her were always together. They usually shared a room and so on. Now he did do things that were inappropriate .. he ran around naked with the mindset that they were kids they wouldn't remember and I had said to him .. you can't do that now (my daughter was 9 at the time) we are not nudist and this is not the norm of the household .. he also did things like tried to have sex with me with the door open to our bedroom and I never understood that .. I would get up and shut it. The bedrooms were all close together on the same side of the house.
First,I want to say that I read this post last night but was so triggered by it that I couldn't reply,and I wish a trigger warning had been added to the title.
Second,I want to say I personally take it very seriously when someone tells me they worry they were sexually abused.And I personally believe people don't just think those things or worry they were for no reason.Also,I won't give details,but I do know that it doesn't need to be left alone with someone for a specific length of time for abuse to happen,it can happen within a matter of minutes.It also doesn't matter if anyone else is around,or even if they share a bed with a sibling,the sibling does sleep and things can happen then.I personally would never try to come up with my own rationalizations or explanations because I simply wouldn't know what happened.Things can and do happen and only the person that experiences it knows the truth.Sexual abuse memories are very often blocked out,repressed and are remembered later.
TBH,someone running around naked around a 9 year old or trying to have sex with me with the door open would raise red flags for me and cause great concern.
I would take these worries very seriously.
SoggySlippers said
Nov 25, 2017
PS,I'm sorry if my reply wasn't the proper way to respond here in Alanon.It's just that I get very emotional and upset whenever someone's worries,questions or concerns about sexual abuse are downplayed,rationalized or even doubted.
andromeda said
Nov 25, 2017
I'm sorry, my friend, I feel for your daughter and for you. It all sounds overwhelming from all perspectives.
I, personally, had blocked out memories of when I was molested (not by family, by a babysitter's young adult son). They didn't start coming back to me until I was around your daughter's age and became sexually active (actually I was 19 so a bit older).
It sounds like you are doing your best to get your daughter the help she needs and to try to get her to go to Al Anon. I'm in the same boat with my son. His anxiety has been through the roof with finals coming up and he's stressing and his tics are much worse, as well.
The fact that she's missing large blocks of time would definitely concern me, but I know that you, as her mother, will help her find the answers she needs. You definitely are not the absent parent here and you are always right there by your daughter's side no matter what's going on with her. You're such a great mom, hang in there. These next few years will most likely be tougher for us as parents as we slowly let our kids grow and mature and face adulthood with the tools we've given them and some tools that they'll need to develop on their own. It's so freaking hard! You are not alone. HUGS!
SerenityRUS said
Nov 27, 2017
What I did was force some issues, I can't afford to run her back and forth to therapy at her schedule. I don't have that kind of time off (I have been using it for her other medical appointments as well as driving up there at whims, that is not going to happen going forward) Given her flakiness even less so at this point, if I show up and she doesn't I'm saying that would go over like a lead balloon.
So my suggestion was for her to take some responsibility for her mental health. I let her know that Alanon was free and it's at the school, so she should probably start there, come summer when she is home with a more normal schedule we can get her set up with appointments for the EMDR. I can get that in place now. She can also get reduced therapy through her school and explain what it is that she wants and needs in terms of support. She's at school and will be there far more consistently than at home until June. Right now that is the best I can do for her. She's got to own some of this in terms of if she's in need of mental support it's available, she's going to have to do the work instead of expecting me to fix it.
I also suggested she limit or go no contact with her dad until she figures things out, I mean telling him she's got a lot on her plate right now and just isn't available in my mind is not out of line. Especially given the gravity of the attack she had Tuesday night. Where I am angry is she did not communicate any of this with me, which is her prerogative as a young adult however I can't read her mind. I think she's more afraid of what I will do to her dad and right now I am completely numb, however calculating a lot. Pretty much figure if I find out that there is basis for this his life as he knows it now is over and I will seek actively to destroy him personally and financially. I don't feel anything which scares me to no end .. I don't get to this point often however when I do figure consequences be damned and I will go on the hunt.
I believe that she believes and I would never minimize that as that was done to me. My mother saw the signs and chose to look the other way. My xsdad was very sexually aggressive with me and my mom said nothing to him. Believe me when I say I did say something and I did make sure there were boundaries put in place when things just were not right.
Until there are actual specifics there is really nothing that can be confirmed or denied she has no memories of actual events. Given certain things that I haven't shared and won't .. I'm trying to walk a balance between letting her heal and grow without interfering. I don't consider hunting him personally/financially interfering. Right now where I am at that's how I feel. She just can't say yes or no as to is it real or is it something she is inserting in her memories. That is a possibility because she was unfortunately very damaged emotionally by a lot of things and I played a part in some of that with as bad as the divorce got .. to be clear .. I called my X an a$$ .. child molester never crossed my mind. There are missing memories with my xsil who happens to be my XFIL's s/daughter which makes me wonder if the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I have reached out to that side of the family to find out if she recovered those memories or just let them go. I know they have affected her choices in life. It has haunted her.
I'm just in a really weird detached place somewhere between a plan and denial I guess. My daughter is now choosing to ignore what's going on which then irritates me because don't dump that and hide.
thanks for letting me share, S
Maresie said
Nov 27, 2017
I would actually.say simething very different. The fact your daughter is awarenshe is dissociating is a good thing. Rather thsn a step.back its a sign she is really actively healing. Many people bury those memories and never get to them.
The price of having repressed memories is very hard.
The other thing to applaud of course is that you are there for her. You believe her you supoort her. You dont doubt her.
The problen with dissociative memories of course is you are witnessing all the feelings she had to repress in order to emotionally survive. A child cannot survive emotionally that level of abandonment. So they repress the memory and really only when they are in a position of strength can they look to deal with them.
The other problem of course is the memory is fragmented. Memory is made up of Behavior Affect Sensation Knowledge.
Your daughter is getting fragments of rhem. Knowledge comes later when it all gets put together. In the meantime when shie is around certain #triggers# the affect wells up out of nowhere and she is naturally overwhelmed. Some memories remain fragmented but in general the person gets to have some knowledge of how and when the trauma occurred.
In the meantime you are left with the fragments. In general I would caution you not to look at the #trigger# as the instigatot
The triggers can change.
I.cannot advise you of how/when to speak to your husband
The fact is you are willing to listen support and be there for your daughter. The process of remembering is not any.easy one. Onve someone is in that space they cannot go back to repressing. What I.can say is ve fentle most of all patient.
By all means seek out professional helo for her. There are a lot of peer grouos that can helo. The book #The Courage to Heal# by Ellen Bass and Laura Davis is a great resource of how to ve there for someone who is in the midst of what your daughter is dealing with.
Lastly I want to thank you because I am generally dealing with a world where people are selfish uncaring and pretty meam. When I encounter someone like yourself who is loving and kind it gives ne hope and faith in humanity
Maresie
serenity47 said
Nov 27, 2017
I am sorry that you and your daughter are going through this. It is so hard to see our children hurting. She did however choose to share with you her pain and obviously trusts you. I believe the truth is always revealed in time and not always on my timetable. The best thing I was able to do for my daughter when she was struggling to get sober was simply be present. I could not fight her battles, make it all better, nor fix any of it. What I could do was be a calm steady anchor for her to lean on when she needs it. It is a process, sometimes two steps forward and one back. She does not process things like I do and I have had to learn to step back and give space. That is not my nature, I want to get in there and get it done. Hugs to you. Your daughter knows she has a loving mother, she will draw strength from that as she figures out how she wants to proceed.
My daughter in having contact with her dad has once again had another bad episode of the anxiety/Tourette's. It was really bad. Of course she didn't tell me and that irritates me more than anything because someone who has known her 3 months and has not lived the situation with her has all of the information.
So part of her behavior has been secrecy which is so not on the list .. I don't need to know the intimate details of her life .. however .. since I'm paying for her meds/therapy .. I do kind of need to know about her issues that are going on.
That being said she's a little freaked out over the fact she's missing time. Large blocks of time and I can relate .. when I was going through a very painful adolescence and dealing with my abusive step dad there are things I can't tell you. It was like having a walking blackout and there was zero drinking involved .. it was about emotional survival .. I feel awful that she's got that going on as an adult at the moment.
Her worry is that her dad abused her sexually. Honestly .. I can't think of a time where he was with her alone for any length of time. Even when he had them for visitation her brother and her were always together. They usually shared a room and so on. Now he did do things that were inappropriate .. he ran around naked with the mindset that they were kids they wouldn't remember and I had said to him .. you can't do that now (my daughter was 9 at the time) we are not nudist and this is not the norm of the household .. he also did things like tried to have sex with me with the door open to our bedroom and I never understood that .. I would get up and shut it. The bedrooms were all close together on the same side of the house.
He didn't do the grooming behavior .. he didn't insist on giving her a bath .. he didn't make her sit on his lap .. he didn't force things like that .. he just did the naked thing and it was with both of the kids so he never singled one out. The kids shared a bed for a long time because the farm was so dang cold that again .. my daughter was never alone in that regard.
Now after we separated it's not like I was running around with different men. I didn't even date until I moved to TX. So there were no men in and out of their lives. I have not heard of issues from their old school.
So I know that the fear is very real to her and even she's admitted she's not sure of anything .. so is she inserting memories or what? Those are her thoughts not mine.
She's finally agreed to some more therapy in terms of some trauma therapy and I continue to suggest alanon .. she just won't go. I'm willing to do the EMDR if we can find a place that will take her off of my EAP and her dad's EAP.
I'm wondering and I already know what a bad idea this will be .. however .. I want to discuss this with him and we all know how that will go. What should I do?
Do I bring it up to him? Do I let him know she's having these issues? I mean she can't have a conversation with him without having an episode and even she admitted that she wanted to prove me wrong about her contact with him and her mental health that she stuffed her anxiety a LOT over the last month.
Has anyone dealt with this situation before?
My missing memories were never attached to the sexual abuse .. mine were family vacations, fights, things that had trauma attached and trust me life with my sdad was one trauma after another. It was a lot of emotional trauma that was attached to my mom.
Hugs S :)
(((Hugs))) - sending prayers for all of you!
First,I want to say that I read this post last night but was so triggered by it that I couldn't reply,and I wish a trigger warning had been added to the title.
Second,I want to say I personally take it very seriously when someone tells me they worry they were sexually abused.And I personally believe people don't just think those things or worry they were for no reason.Also,I won't give details,but I do know that it doesn't need to be left alone with someone for a specific length of time for abuse to happen,it can happen within a matter of minutes.It also doesn't matter if anyone else is around,or even if they share a bed with a sibling,the sibling does sleep and things can happen then.I personally would never try to come up with my own rationalizations or explanations because I simply wouldn't know what happened.Things can and do happen and only the person that experiences it knows the truth.Sexual abuse memories are very often blocked out,repressed and are remembered later.
TBH,someone running around naked around a 9 year old or trying to have sex with me with the door open would raise red flags for me and cause great concern.
I would take these worries very seriously.
I, personally, had blocked out memories of when I was molested (not by family, by a babysitter's young adult son). They didn't start coming back to me until I was around your daughter's age and became sexually active (actually I was 19 so a bit older).
It sounds like you are doing your best to get your daughter the help she needs and to try to get her to go to Al Anon. I'm in the same boat with my son. His anxiety has been through the roof with finals coming up and he's stressing and his tics are much worse, as well.
The fact that she's missing large blocks of time would definitely concern me, but I know that you, as her mother, will help her find the answers she needs. You definitely are not the absent parent here and you are always right there by your daughter's side no matter what's going on with her. You're such a great mom, hang in there. These next few years will most likely be tougher for us as parents as we slowly let our kids grow and mature and face adulthood with the tools we've given them and some tools that they'll need to develop on their own. It's so freaking hard! You are not alone. HUGS!
So my suggestion was for her to take some responsibility for her mental health. I let her know that Alanon was free and it's at the school, so she should probably start there, come summer when she is home with a more normal schedule we can get her set up with appointments for the EMDR. I can get that in place now. She can also get reduced therapy through her school and explain what it is that she wants and needs in terms of support. She's at school and will be there far more consistently than at home until June. Right now that is the best I can do for her. She's got to own some of this in terms of if she's in need of mental support it's available, she's going to have to do the work instead of expecting me to fix it.
I also suggested she limit or go no contact with her dad until she figures things out, I mean telling him she's got a lot on her plate right now and just isn't available in my mind is not out of line. Especially given the gravity of the attack she had Tuesday night. Where I am angry is she did not communicate any of this with me, which is her prerogative as a young adult however I can't read her mind. I think she's more afraid of what I will do to her dad and right now I am completely numb, however calculating a lot. Pretty much figure if I find out that there is basis for this his life as he knows it now is over and I will seek actively to destroy him personally and financially. I don't feel anything which scares me to no end .. I don't get to this point often however when I do figure consequences be damned and I will go on the hunt.
I believe that she believes and I would never minimize that as that was done to me. My mother saw the signs and chose to look the other way. My xsdad was very sexually aggressive with me and my mom said nothing to him. Believe me when I say I did say something and I did make sure there were boundaries put in place when things just were not right.
Until there are actual specifics there is really nothing that can be confirmed or denied she has no memories of actual events. Given certain things that I haven't shared and won't .. I'm trying to walk a balance between letting her heal and grow without interfering. I don't consider hunting him personally/financially interfering. Right now where I am at that's how I feel. She just can't say yes or no as to is it real or is it something she is inserting in her memories. That is a possibility because she was unfortunately very damaged emotionally by a lot of things and I played a part in some of that with as bad as the divorce got .. to be clear .. I called my X an a$$ .. child molester never crossed my mind. There are missing memories with my xsil who happens to be my XFIL's s/daughter which makes me wonder if the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I have reached out to that side of the family to find out if she recovered those memories or just let them go. I know they have affected her choices in life. It has haunted her.
I'm just in a really weird detached place somewhere between a plan and denial I guess. My daughter is now choosing to ignore what's going on which then irritates me because don't dump that and hide.
thanks for letting me share, S
I would actually.say simething very different. The fact your daughter is awarenshe is dissociating is a good thing. Rather thsn a step.back its a sign she is really actively healing. Many people bury those memories and never get to them.
The price of having repressed memories is very hard.
The other thing to applaud of course is that you are there for her. You believe her you supoort her. You dont doubt her.
The problen with dissociative memories of course is you are witnessing all the feelings she had to repress in order to emotionally survive. A child cannot survive emotionally that level of abandonment. So they repress the memory and really only when they are in a position of strength can they look to deal with them.
The other problem of course is the memory is fragmented. Memory is made up of Behavior Affect Sensation Knowledge.
Your daughter is getting fragments of rhem. Knowledge comes later when it all gets put together. In the meantime when shie is around certain #triggers# the affect wells up out of nowhere and she is naturally overwhelmed. Some memories remain fragmented but in general the person gets to have some knowledge of how and when the trauma occurred.
In the meantime you are left with the fragments. In general I would caution you not to look at the #trigger# as the instigatot
The triggers can change.
I.cannot advise you of how/when to speak to your husband
The fact is you are willing to listen support and be there for your daughter. The process of remembering is not any.easy one. Onve someone is in that space they cannot go back to repressing. What I.can say is ve fentle most of all patient.
By all means seek out professional helo for her. There are a lot of peer grouos that can helo. The book #The Courage to Heal# by Ellen Bass and Laura Davis is a great resource of how to ve there for someone who is in the midst of what your daughter is dealing with.
Lastly I want to thank you because I am generally dealing with a world where people are selfish uncaring and pretty meam. When I encounter someone like yourself who is loving and kind it gives ne hope and faith in humanity
Maresie