There's a recent encounter I've been turning over and over in my head...
I accidentally showed up to a men-only meeting (I'm female). I ran into a newcomer (also female) outside, so I told her it was a men-only meeting but that we could have our own little meeting separately.
I tried to briefly go into the room where the men were meeting, intending to let them know about the newcomer and see if we could borrow materials and if anyone would be interested in helping with a first step meeting for her. I never even got a word out of my mouth... as soon as I walked in someone scowled at me and started shaking his head. I backed out of the room immediately.
I went back to the newcomer, trying not to burst into tears from the encounter I had just had, and we managed to improvise a little two-person meeting. I think it went OK (hopefully...).
But I'm pretty upset about what happened at the men's meeting! I understand that single-gender meetings have value in giving people a space to share in a way they may not be comfortable doing in a mixed-gender meeting, but if someone of the wrong gender shows up you can politely explain it's a single-gender meeting instead of scowling and shaking your head at them! I wasn't trying to join their meeting uninvited, I just wanted to get help for the newcomer... thank goodness it was me that wound up having that encounter instead of her!
"Although you may not like all of us..." yeah, I DON'T like you Mr. Scowly-Pants!
But what if... he had his own issues? This was one person, it was NOT the entire Al-Anon program telling me to eff off out of the meeting and how dare I go in there even if it was to help a newcomer. Who knows what his issues are. They are his, not mine.
But what if... he didn't mean to look unfriendly, and was just trying to gently warn me out of the room without interrupting the person who was reading? There were no words exchanged, just body language, and body language is so easy to misinterpret, especially since my brain is still particularly sensitive to expecting hostility from men...
And even if he was angry at me for trying to go in the room, it was probably just a fleeting annoyance - I very much doubt that they then spent the entire meeting complaining that a woman had briefly started to step into the room. More likely than not, the only person still dwelling on this encounter is me.
I'd already had a pretty emotionally raw week, and could have done without another "lesson" right now... but this is just another chance to practice my program. If I can only hold onto the program when I'm not upset, that wouldn't do me much good...
So I am powerless over what he/they think of me, what he/they think of me is none of my business, and applying the slogan "How important is it?" the answer is "Not at all". And it doesn't matter who was "wronger" - me for knowingly walking into a men's meeting or him for his reaction that could have scared off the newcomer had she gone in. We were probably both just doing the best we could under the circumstances. I wound up enjoying my meeting with the newcomer, and I hope he had a good meeting too!
Jerry F said
Nov 7, 2017
Sorry that happened to you Atheos. I was one of the founders of the Friday Night Mens Stag AFG meeting in Central Valley Ca. The tradition was that we could not exclude women from the meeting and could let them know about any items which might cause them concern. Mainly it was expression and language that we would not make adjustment to satisfy the listener. It wasn't only about swearing. We had women in our meetings from time to time...they rarely stayed and held no resentments.
Good on you doing that one on one with the newbie...You will get a blessing for it I believe. (((((hugs)))))
atheos said
Nov 7, 2017
Thank you Jerry!
I am doing better now - a negative social encounter is like having a bucket of water dumped on me. Unpleasant while it lasts, but my clothes dry out after a little while, and it's not going to do me any permanent harm! (And I still don't even know for sure that he intended it to be negative!)
Thank you for the insight on men's meetings! I can definitely see the value of men having a space to do things in a way that suits their needs (especially since you guys are in the minority in Al-Anon). I hope he had a good meeting!
SerenityRUS said
Nov 7, 2017
Atheos,
I think it's very normal to respond especially when in the past there has been so much negativity in terms of taking an emotional risk. Good on you for taking that risk and so sorry that it was shocking .. not necessarily a bad thing.
Sometimes I have to take the extra breath and say to myself whatever the outcome of the situation .. it's just not about me. A co-worker had a horrible experience in front of me in regards to HR .. and believe me when I say that HR was SOOOOO out of line I almost came up out of my chair. I knew my co-worker was shook and got her out of the room to go for a walk (we share an office). HR actually told her she could cost the company 50k in fines .. this was all over something we do all the time since one of the HR offices has our thermostat in it. There was no warning no one was suppose to go in that office the door was open and so on and my poor little work friend walked right into a hornets nest. Anyway, the bottom line to that story was I listened, looked at her and just told her honey .. you are just not that powerful to cause a 50k fine. That was sheer over reaction on HR's part to send a clear message that it's not fair. So we talked about not taking things personally because she's just not that powerful .. she's not an officer, she's not a board member, .. she's a worker bee who does a fantabulouos job and happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and HR dealt with it in a horrible way. I will tell you she was mad at me .. LOL .. I had the nerve to say she wasn't in control and I had the nerve to say just not about you .. I think for me as a person who likes to be in control it's shocking to have a reality check that nope sorry .. good luck with that .. she came back the next day and told me how mad she was at me for pointing that out and even madder when her therapist agreed .. LOL.
It kind sounds that this was a similar issue. Whatever was going on with Mr. Grouchy was not about you and you have a right even as a woman in an all men's meeting to open your mouth and say excuse me I haven't spoken yet or something more appropriate .. LOL ... and I have a newcomer we don't want to interfere in your meeting however I need something for a newcomer. There is NOTHING wrong with that and you are entitled to speak your peace .. how he chooses to react .. that's on him and his program and his inventory.
I enjoy people like that at times because it reminds me how I can be back at the beginning of my program any dang day of the week.
I truly encourage you to use the opportunity to review the step you are working on and use some slogans again .. QTIP comes to mind and stand in your truth .. you are worthy of your truth and no one has the right to belittle you for that.
Big big hugs, S :)
Maresie25 said
Nov 7, 2017
At the holiday time, for most people, stress is way up. So much for the happy holidays. I worked retail for five years and it was the worst thing to do. People were so obnoxious. The store ran really badly and morale was non existent.
For me boundaries are really difficult. The staying firm but not being nasty boundary is one of the nastiest you can deal with.
I know I come off to some people (namely neighbors as not being too friendly) that is because I was way way too friendly in the past.
I know when I am raw and tired and exhausted that I am especially prone to being triggered.
My expectations of 12 step meetings was pretty much the same as it was everything else in my life way way off.
I could not see a group of hurt, tired, really raw people. I only saw what I needed this warm, loving, polite, efficient group of people who would help me. I never really saw it as people looking for help just like me.
On the holidays in particular, I wrap myself up in cotton wool, I know the triggers, I know the propensity to take things personally.
I do things to renew myself and take care.
I don't go in for helping others in a perfect way. If I can do something that will be okay but it has to be imperfect rather than the super woman type of helping I used to do.
I don't see that as indifference because above all I need to take care of myself.
I am sorry you had this encounter. Getting support and help is very difficult. I have been looking for a therapist lately and wonder why certain people cannot just say their practice is full straight up! In the past I would have taken that kind of response incredibly personally. Now I just know it won't be a straight shot to find someone who can actually help me.
I no longer expect people to be the way I need them to be or want them to be.
There's a recent encounter I've been turning over and over in my head...
I accidentally showed up to a men-only meeting (I'm female). I ran into a newcomer (also female) outside, so I told her it was a men-only meeting but that we could have our own little meeting separately.
I tried to briefly go into the room where the men were meeting, intending to let them know about the newcomer and see if we could borrow materials and if anyone would be interested in helping with a first step meeting for her. I never even got a word out of my mouth... as soon as I walked in someone scowled at me and started shaking his head. I backed out of the room immediately.
I went back to the newcomer, trying not to burst into tears from the encounter I had just had, and we managed to improvise a little two-person meeting. I think it went OK (hopefully...).
But I'm pretty upset about what happened at the men's meeting! I understand that single-gender meetings have value in giving people a space to share in a way they may not be comfortable doing in a mixed-gender meeting, but if someone of the wrong gender shows up you can politely explain it's a single-gender meeting instead of scowling and shaking your head at them! I wasn't trying to join their meeting uninvited, I just wanted to get help for the newcomer... thank goodness it was me that wound up having that encounter instead of her!
"Although you may not like all of us..." yeah, I DON'T like you Mr. Scowly-Pants!
But what if... he had his own issues? This was one person, it was NOT the entire Al-Anon program telling me to eff off out of the meeting and how dare I go in there even if it was to help a newcomer. Who knows what his issues are. They are his, not mine.
But what if... he didn't mean to look unfriendly, and was just trying to gently warn me out of the room without interrupting the person who was reading? There were no words exchanged, just body language, and body language is so easy to misinterpret, especially since my brain is still particularly sensitive to expecting hostility from men...
And even if he was angry at me for trying to go in the room, it was probably just a fleeting annoyance - I very much doubt that they then spent the entire meeting complaining that a woman had briefly started to step into the room. More likely than not, the only person still dwelling on this encounter is me.
I'd already had a pretty emotionally raw week, and could have done without another "lesson" right now... but this is just another chance to practice my program. If I can only hold onto the program when I'm not upset, that wouldn't do me much good...
So I am powerless over what he/they think of me, what he/they think of me is none of my business, and applying the slogan "How important is it?" the answer is "Not at all". And it doesn't matter who was "wronger" - me for knowingly walking into a men's meeting or him for his reaction that could have scared off the newcomer had she gone in. We were probably both just doing the best we could under the circumstances. I wound up enjoying my meeting with the newcomer, and I hope he had a good meeting too!
Sorry that happened to you Atheos. I was one of the founders of the Friday Night Mens Stag AFG meeting in Central Valley Ca. The tradition was that we could not exclude women from the meeting and could let them know about any items which might cause them concern. Mainly it was expression and language that we would not make adjustment to satisfy the listener. It wasn't only about swearing. We had women in our meetings from time to time...they rarely stayed and held no resentments.
Good on you doing that one on one with the newbie...You will get a blessing for it I believe. (((((hugs)))))
Thank you Jerry!
I am doing better now - a negative social encounter is like having a bucket of water dumped on me. Unpleasant while it lasts, but my clothes dry out after a little while, and it's not going to do me any permanent harm! (And I still don't even know for sure that he intended it to be negative!)
Thank you for the insight on men's meetings! I can definitely see the value of men having a space to do things in a way that suits their needs (especially since you guys are in the minority in Al-Anon). I hope he had a good meeting!
I think it's very normal to respond especially when in the past there has been so much negativity in terms of taking an emotional risk. Good on you for taking that risk and so sorry that it was shocking .. not necessarily a bad thing.
Sometimes I have to take the extra breath and say to myself whatever the outcome of the situation .. it's just not about me. A co-worker had a horrible experience in front of me in regards to HR .. and believe me when I say that HR was SOOOOO out of line I almost came up out of my chair. I knew my co-worker was shook and got her out of the room to go for a walk (we share an office). HR actually told her she could cost the company 50k in fines .. this was all over something we do all the time since one of the HR offices has our thermostat in it. There was no warning no one was suppose to go in that office the door was open and so on and my poor little work friend walked right into a hornets nest. Anyway, the bottom line to that story was I listened, looked at her and just told her honey .. you are just not that powerful to cause a 50k fine. That was sheer over reaction on HR's part to send a clear message that it's not fair. So we talked about not taking things personally because she's just not that powerful .. she's not an officer, she's not a board member, .. she's a worker bee who does a fantabulouos job and happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and HR dealt with it in a horrible way. I will tell you she was mad at me .. LOL .. I had the nerve to say she wasn't in control and I had the nerve to say just not about you .. I think for me as a person who likes to be in control it's shocking to have a reality check that nope sorry .. good luck with that .. she came back the next day and told me how mad she was at me for pointing that out and even madder when her therapist agreed .. LOL.
It kind sounds that this was a similar issue. Whatever was going on with Mr. Grouchy was not about you and you have a right even as a woman in an all men's meeting to open your mouth and say excuse me I haven't spoken yet or something more appropriate .. LOL ... and I have a newcomer we don't want to interfere in your meeting however I need something for a newcomer. There is NOTHING wrong with that and you are entitled to speak your peace .. how he chooses to react .. that's on him and his program and his inventory.
I enjoy people like that at times because it reminds me how I can be back at the beginning of my program any dang day of the week.
I truly encourage you to use the opportunity to review the step you are working on and use some slogans again .. QTIP comes to mind and stand in your truth .. you are worthy of your truth and no one has the right to belittle you for that.
Big big hugs, S :)
At the holiday time, for most people, stress is way up. So much for the happy holidays. I worked retail for five years and it was the worst thing to do. People were so obnoxious. The store ran really badly and morale was non existent.
For me boundaries are really difficult. The staying firm but not being nasty boundary is one of the nastiest you can deal with.
I know I come off to some people (namely neighbors as not being too friendly) that is because I was way way too friendly in the past.
I know when I am raw and tired and exhausted that I am especially prone to being triggered.
My expectations of 12 step meetings was pretty much the same as it was everything else in my life way way off.
I could not see a group of hurt, tired, really raw people. I only saw what I needed this warm, loving, polite, efficient group of people who would help me. I never really saw it as people looking for help just like me.
On the holidays in particular, I wrap myself up in cotton wool, I know the triggers, I know the propensity to take things personally.
I do things to renew myself and take care.
I don't go in for helping others in a perfect way. If I can do something that will be okay but it has to be imperfect rather than the super woman type of helping I used to do.
I don't see that as indifference because above all I need to take care of myself.
I am sorry you had this encounter. Getting support and help is very difficult. I have been looking for a therapist lately and wonder why certain people cannot just say their practice is full straight up! In the past I would have taken that kind of response incredibly personally. Now I just know it won't be a straight shot to find someone who can actually help me.
I no longer expect people to be the way I need them to be or want them to be.
For me that was a long long time coming.