My new sponsor has suggested to me that my father may be an alcoholic. She is not the first person to say so. Several Al-Anon people have said so over the years. But he doesn't drink *that* much. And I've never heard a non-Alanon person suggest that he might be an alcoholic. So I am kind of wondering if sometimes people in Al-Anon may be a little quick to label anyone who acts like a jerk as an alcoholic, if that person happens to drink at all (even in normal amounts).
It's a bit of a moot point... the only person who can REALLY tell whether or not my father is an alcoholic is my father, because only he knows what goes on inside his head in relation to alcohol and wanting to drink. I can't diagnose him.
But, moving away from the subject of him, it DID make me realize that I have no idea what "normal" drinking is. I know that US government guidelines are that men should not have more than 2 drinks/day - so does that mean that a man having 1-3 beers/evening at least 5 days out of the week is perfectly normal? I've always assumed that 25-50% of middle-aged men have a few drinks most evenings - is that correct, or is my sense of "normal" wildly off here?
Jerry F said
Oct 31, 2017
The requirement for Al-Anon membership is if someone's drinking disturbs you. You are right in that you cannot diagnose him...only inventory yourself. If his drinking upsets you...welcome to the Al-Anon Family Groups; find a face to face groups, make one your home group, find a chair, sit, listen, learn, practice, practice, practice. (((hugs)))
atheos said
Oct 31, 2017
Thank you Jerry!
I've been in Al-Anon for a while, by way of another qualifier... but hadn't really thought of my dad as also possibly a qualifier!
It's... weird... not even so much just thinking about whether or not he could be an alcoholic (I know I can't know that for sure), just realizing that I have _NO_ idea how much most people actually drink. Realizing that what I thought was perfectly normal may not actually be normal. Or maybe it is. I don't know.
I've spent the last few hours Googling this, and so far all I've found is something that says 14% of British men drink 5 or more days a week. So I'm guessing that since my family is in the US, it would be even lower for us. But if you'd asked me yesterday before I'd gone and tried to research this, I would have said that I thought 25-50% of American men had a few beers almost every evening.
It's kind of unsettling to realize that something I thought was perfectly normal might not be... now I really want to know what "normal" drinking is in the US!
-- Edited by atheos on Tuesday 31st of October 2017 12:48:30 AM
Skorpi said
Oct 31, 2017
Atheos,
what IS normal, anyway? I sure don't know! I moved from a state where you could only buy alcohol in a designated store, and never on a Sunday or holiday, to a state where the alcohol is in the grocery stores and Target!
My childhood was spent in a location where alcohol wasn't around, and when it was, it was in the form of wine turning slowly to vinegar in the basement. My adult life has been spent mainly where any gathering of any kind (including baby showers and children's birthdays) without alcohol is unheard of. Where the bars outnumber the churches. Where one cannot walk around an art fair without walking past a beer tent followed 300 feet by a wine tent followed 300 feet by a beer tent, etc.
What I do know is that normal for me is what I feel comfortable with. What I feel healthy with. What I feel in control with. For me, a drink or two a year at special events seems like normal drinking. A few drinks a day seems excessive to me. But, that is my normal.
My question for you is what is your normal, and do you like your normal, or does it make you uncomfortable?
My paternal grandfather was an alcoholic. He had happily found recovery before I knew him. I grew up with my mom insisting that my dad was also an alcoholic, but I never really saw him drink, and when he did, I can probably count the times he drank during my childhood on one hand, he was never alone, and never had more than 2 drinks, was never out of control or not himself. He does enjoy beer now, in the last 10 years or so he's started to keep a 6 pack in the house. He might have a beer once or twice a week, after an especially trying day working on cars or his latest building project. My wife is an alcoholic in recovery. When she drinks, her normal is closer to a couple six-packs a day. For me, regardless of the amount of drinking that is going on, the alcoholic behaviors and the coping mechanisms developed in a family where alcoholism exists impact my life, and I know I need Al-Anon to help me get over the character flaws I developed as a child and as an adult because of the disease of alcoholism. So, I guess, for me, what is normal in terms of alcohol consumption is less important than what is acceptable to me in terms of behavior. Just a morning ramble on my part.
SerenityRUS said
Oct 31, 2017
Anything in excess there might be an issue doesn't have to be alcohol.
While it's not my job to diagnosis someone else .. if it walks like a duck .. quacks like a duck .. chances are you are dealing with a duck. I deal with that person based upon my experience of drinking that disturbs me.
One of my therapists who was in AA said to me .. S .. getting 1 DUI is a possible issue millions of people go through life never getting a DUI. If there is more than 1 .. chances are there is an issue there. Going to jail for disturbing the peace doesn't happen to people who actually don't drink to much. That to is probably a red flag that there might be a problem. Loosing a job because you can't get up in the morning due to a hangover .. I'm kind of going with .. there might be an issue. To have ALL of these things happen in one lifetime .. hmm .. it's a duck. Let's just be honest about it.
It sounds to me is that your therapist was asking you in an objective way to look at the past and see if there are some patterns there. If there are face, trace and move forward.
Hugs S :)
Aline said
Oct 31, 2017
I think it was very recently here on MIP that someone wrote something to the effect that an alcoholic is someone who continues drinking despite suffering progressively more negative consequences, or something like that... I kind of like this definition, it makes sense to me, at least. Not that it really matters, I guess.
Aerin said
Nov 1, 2017
I have the same exact thought. No idea at times what is ānormalā. I am not a drinker.. my ex drank beers almost every day and like another poster said.. constant negative outcomes from his drinking. Massive personality change too. I have seen men have a beer (one) after work and they just seem a bit mellow, their entire demeanor doesnt become an issue with everyone. Being with an alcoholic all those years has unfortunately really jaded my view of drinking in general.
My new sponsor has suggested to me that my father may be an alcoholic. She is not the first person to say so. Several Al-Anon people have said so over the years. But he doesn't drink *that* much. And I've never heard a non-Alanon person suggest that he might be an alcoholic. So I am kind of wondering if sometimes people in Al-Anon may be a little quick to label anyone who acts like a jerk as an alcoholic, if that person happens to drink at all (even in normal amounts).
It's a bit of a moot point... the only person who can REALLY tell whether or not my father is an alcoholic is my father, because only he knows what goes on inside his head in relation to alcohol and wanting to drink. I can't diagnose him.
But, moving away from the subject of him, it DID make me realize that I have no idea what "normal" drinking is. I know that US government guidelines are that men should not have more than 2 drinks/day - so does that mean that a man having 1-3 beers/evening at least 5 days out of the week is perfectly normal? I've always assumed that 25-50% of middle-aged men have a few drinks most evenings - is that correct, or is my sense of "normal" wildly off here?
The requirement for Al-Anon membership is if someone's drinking disturbs you. You are right in that you cannot diagnose him...only inventory yourself. If his drinking upsets you...welcome to the Al-Anon Family Groups; find a face to face groups, make one your home group, find a chair, sit, listen, learn, practice, practice, practice. (((hugs)))
Thank you Jerry!
I've been in Al-Anon for a while, by way of another qualifier... but hadn't really thought of my dad as also possibly a qualifier!
It's... weird... not even so much just thinking about whether or not he could be an alcoholic (I know I can't know that for sure), just realizing that I have _NO_ idea how much most people actually drink. Realizing that what I thought was perfectly normal may not actually be normal. Or maybe it is. I don't know.
I've spent the last few hours Googling this, and so far all I've found is something that says 14% of British men drink 5 or more days a week. So I'm guessing that since my family is in the US, it would be even lower for us. But if you'd asked me yesterday before I'd gone and tried to research this, I would have said that I thought 25-50% of American men had a few beers almost every evening.
It's kind of unsettling to realize that something I thought was perfectly normal might not be... now I really want to know what "normal" drinking is in the US!
-- Edited by atheos on Tuesday 31st of October 2017 12:48:30 AM
what IS normal, anyway? I sure don't know! I moved from a state where you could only buy alcohol in a designated store, and never on a Sunday or holiday, to a state where the alcohol is in the grocery stores and Target!
My childhood was spent in a location where alcohol wasn't around, and when it was, it was in the form of wine turning slowly to vinegar in the basement. My adult life has been spent mainly where any gathering of any kind (including baby showers and children's birthdays) without alcohol is unheard of. Where the bars outnumber the churches. Where one cannot walk around an art fair without walking past a beer tent followed 300 feet by a wine tent followed 300 feet by a beer tent, etc.
What I do know is that normal for me is what I feel comfortable with. What I feel healthy with. What I feel in control with. For me, a drink or two a year at special events seems like normal drinking. A few drinks a day seems excessive to me. But, that is my normal.
My question for you is what is your normal, and do you like your normal, or does it make you uncomfortable?
My paternal grandfather was an alcoholic. He had happily found recovery before I knew him. I grew up with my mom insisting that my dad was also an alcoholic, but I never really saw him drink, and when he did, I can probably count the times he drank during my childhood on one hand, he was never alone, and never had more than 2 drinks, was never out of control or not himself. He does enjoy beer now, in the last 10 years or so he's started to keep a 6 pack in the house. He might have a beer once or twice a week, after an especially trying day working on cars or his latest building project. My wife is an alcoholic in recovery. When she drinks, her normal is closer to a couple six-packs a day. For me, regardless of the amount of drinking that is going on, the alcoholic behaviors and the coping mechanisms developed in a family where alcoholism exists impact my life, and I know I need Al-Anon to help me get over the character flaws I developed as a child and as an adult because of the disease of alcoholism. So, I guess, for me, what is normal in terms of alcohol consumption is less important than what is acceptable to me in terms of behavior. Just a morning ramble on my part.
While it's not my job to diagnosis someone else .. if it walks like a duck .. quacks like a duck .. chances are you are dealing with a duck. I deal with that person based upon my experience of drinking that disturbs me.
One of my therapists who was in AA said to me .. S .. getting 1 DUI is a possible issue millions of people go through life never getting a DUI. If there is more than 1 .. chances are there is an issue there. Going to jail for disturbing the peace doesn't happen to people who actually don't drink to much. That to is probably a red flag that there might be a problem. Loosing a job because you can't get up in the morning due to a hangover .. I'm kind of going with .. there might be an issue. To have ALL of these things happen in one lifetime .. hmm .. it's a duck. Let's just be honest about it.
It sounds to me is that your therapist was asking you in an objective way to look at the past and see if there are some patterns there. If there are face, trace and move forward.
Hugs S :)