Hi All, been a way far too long it would seem. I am going to meetings and reaching out, but sometimes I just need to get my thoughts out to work through them, hear everyone's ESH. Some days I am doing well and other days I (feel) like I am right back to where I started months ago.
I am struggling with my active alcoholic saying he's not drinking. Saying he's in recovery. Saying he's, and I quote "beaten it"... (he is still not currently living at home) he tells me that he "has only had 1 drink in two weeks" but I have texts and phone conversations that prove otherwise. Of course I am not in the same room with him- so maybe he thinks telling me he isn't drinking is believable.
About 2 weeks ago I made the mistake (I use the word loosely) of answering the phone when he called drunk. *back story, I haven't talked (on the phone) with him drunk or been around him drunk in many many months* So he calls and it's the circular talking- the accusing me of "another man" and then asking over and over about it- and if I love him to in the next moment turning more sexual. Ugh I tried to stay calm (and considering I used to "poke back" there is some progress) but I didn't know in that moment how to disengage and/or detach. He kept calling and texting. When he started cussing I told him firmly I wouldn't be spoken to that way (so a small boundary in the moment I guess). Luckily I had a program friend that called me and helped me get past the "moment"... as he called several times while I was on the phone with her. I just felt unprepared. Insert -two days later- him telling me how good he's been and only had 2 drinks in 3 weeks (or some nonsense). Mind boggling to me. More to that weekend story, but not a new story.
Fast forward to this weekend. He was supposed to go pumpkin gathering with boys and I Sunday, and then said we could get pumpkins and he would come over after a work meeting. Boys and I do our thing, go home and he calls to say he has to work. Fine. I am the first to admit I had a bit of "hope" that he would follow thru- silly at this point based on his behavior- so I was resentful. Moving forward I pulled myself together and did pumpkin decorating with my boys. The string of texts start- first to say that he's sorry I am mad but he has to work so hard, and he's so important, and just got a raise so I should praise him, has to pay bills (whole other story), etc. I just said I wasn't mad, but I was disappointed. On to cleaning pumpkin seeds- now I become resentful, I have no desire to roast pumpkin seeds, just not my jam but there I was cleaning seeds (that was supposed to be HIS activity with the boys) and here come the onslaught of texts. Buzz Buzz Buzz... About how I only want him around for money- I don't talk to him about anything accept picking up boys and giving me money- and if it isn't about giving me money then I don't want anything to do with him (picture up to arms in pumpkin guts)- he just wants to know- he doesn't believe I love him- on and on and on. So I state I am cleaning pumpkin seeds, few other messages then the story changes............ now he says........... "you know I have an alcohol problem, you don't ask how I am doing, you don't ask about my recovery- I see my sponsor 3 times a week, I work more to keep from drinking--- I have beaten it"---- it feels like lucid insanity.
At this point in the conversation I am in meltdown mode, trying to find some clear thinking thoughts, but struggling........ *bam* switch to me lashing out at my boys because they were banging around upstairs (not doing anything wrong, just playing as boys do).
And just like that his insanity was in my head. How do I speak to someone who is literally trying to convince me of his sobriety that doesn't exist? I am trying to put the phone away,, turn off notifications, not respond. But days like yesterday I just couldn't. And once I was out of the fog chatting with a program friend I looked back at the messages and could CLEARLY see what he was doing. But in the moment I couldn't.
And today- I struggle with the guilt of how harsh I was with my boys. Just thinking about it brings me to tears. Crying in my counselors office earlier today when I spoke about it. Crying now. I just can't stop and move past it. My youngest was ok, my older 7 yr old was upset. I hugged him and told him I was so sorry.
They don't deserve that from me- I don't deserve that from him. and with all my work/progress here I sit feeling broken today.
SerenityRUS said
Oct 30, 2017
Hugs sis,
Please be gentle with you. When I stand in my own truth and just allow the situation around me to play out then it seems to workout better.
As far as the whole parenting fail issue .. LOL .. welcome to the club .. it happens .. it sucks and there is a lesson to be learned. Beating yourself up for not being perfect isn't going to "fix" the past. It just is what it is .. assess the situation and move forward.
Slipping is part of the program because without those lessons there is no room for growth. No one has it all together all of the time. If that was the case there would be 12 meetings, no more alanon after that and that's just not life .. life is flawlessly messy on a good day and imperfectly perfect on a bad day.
Keep doing you .. keep coming back and I believe that you will come out on the other side. The disappointments are hard sometimes especially when there is the expectation of just maybe this time it's true.
Hugs S :)
Aline said
Oct 30, 2017
Hugs, ((((pumkin)))). Progress not perfection, as we say. I am also very familiar with excessive amount of texts and calls from my A, also the abusive / loving change, gahh. Even though I mostly don't engage in this anymore, its still annoying when it happens (been happening less often lately, I suppose its because I'm too unresponsive). For my own peace of mind I have considerably lowered my expectations for my A to honor any prior arrangements made, to save myself from disappointment. Alcoholic schedule = complete unreliable chaos, as far as I've seen myself and read from others here. Sometimes I still forget it, and that's usually when I get disappointed/resentful.
One day/moment at a time.
Maresie25 said
Oct 30, 2017
At one time the ex A went to a recovery program. He played the game really well there of how committed he was. The moment he got out he started back up.
Alcoholics lie quite a lot. The main person they lie to of course is themselves.
When I get completely enmeshed with an alcoholic my self care goes by the window.
Then I bring it all down on myself.
I am a human who has issues. Sometimes I fall down.
The main thing is I get back up.
There is no formula to deal with someone who is lying to you. I think the best formula is to be aware they are lying. Have no expectations.\
I am around people who lie all the time. I expect very little from them in terms of taking care of me.
My own expectations were the problem for me. I kept expecting the ex A to start acting like a partner. The only partnership he had was with alcohol,
Maresie.
Jerry F said
Oct 30, 2017
Pumpkin you have received some very good feedback from the ladies of MIP and I got my memory lane memories back. It was the ladies of Al-Anon that saved my butt and often with the same feed back you have received here. I wasn't allowed to use the terms I can't or I won't or such because they knew I was just practicing my self pity and wanting to be rescued without dialing program 911 and then I got in the habit of not using those terms and came to believe I could and would work the program as suggested. Lucid Insanity...got it...had it...don't use it anymore. Keep coming back. Pumpkin guts...how real is that?? (((((hugs)))))
Iamhere said
Oct 31, 2017
(((Pumpkin))) - great to see you again. So very sorry for what brings you back. I too can relate and truly had to surrender often in early recovery. There was a part of my brain (logic) that could easily see the insanity. Yet, this program tells us that we can not make others ever see things as we do. For me, this applies to those that brought me here and well beyond.
I do know now that 'action' in recovery is vastly different than action before recovery. Before recovery, I spent a ton of time looking outside myself for the cause/effect/solutions. Today, instead, I try to use the serenity prayer and our tools to look inside myself for the cause/effect/solutions. I heard early on 'that which I spend my focus on grows' and it's been proven time and time again. As Jerry points out, I really had to lean into others with more experience and practice what they suggested. My habit(s) were unhealthy and certainly not forward facing.
My hope is that your share brought you some relief - when I share, it does seem to lesson my burden. Be gentle with you and know you aren't alone!! (((Hugs)))
pumkin26 said
Oct 31, 2017
Serenity, Aline, and Maresie--Thank you all for your responses! I've read them a few times, nodding as I read them. It always makes more sense when I am out of the bubble or box I have stuffed myself into. I am learning not to have too many expectations. Some days I have a glimmer of hope, my own doing, by now I know his dance. The hope is met with resentment as predicted. The lying is tough to wrap my head around, I know that I don't really need to do that and I am getting a little better at standing in my own truth and letting the rest go. I am hard on myself, it's part of that darn perfectionist in me that I am working on.
Jerry- what struck me the most is when you spoke about not be allowed to use "I can't" or "I won't"... and I went back and re-read my post and saw the "I couldn't"(s). And as I hopped on to the online meeting, the topic was "self-care" and suddenly the pieces fell into place- Sunday I wasn't practicing self-care, I was throwing my self care out the window. Self care to me I have learned, sometimes means, not answering the phone, putting it down, turning off the notifications, etc. I had it in my head that I "couldn't" not answer. A program friend told me- that awful night I reference from a couple weeks ago where I answered the phone- that she says to herself "do *I* HAVE anything to say, or NEED to say anything" and if the answer is "no" then she doesn't respond. So while I was in up to my elbows in pumpkin guts (hahaha if you've ever seeded a pumpkin that's exactly what it feels like I am doing hahaha) I didn't "NEED" to talk and I had nothing I wanted to say in that moment. There are many tools I had in my head but I struggled to find them.
I am good at forgetting that I have choices. I think I answer (sometimes) still out of fear- it's a weird pavlonian response with the phone. I am getting better, especially at night, I turn off notifications. I think in that moment I thought I should call someone, and I hesitated. I didn't make the call when I should have. Still a newbie, and I do reach out, but sometimes I do get sucked into the self-pity and wallow for a bit.
Iamhere- thank you as well! I keep reading what you wrote over and over especially about action and your quote about "that which I spend my focus on grows" Yes typing it all out does tend to help me to move past it. I like to read it back as well, especially with perspective from shares.
Hi All, been a way far too long it would seem. I am going to meetings and reaching out, but sometimes I just need to get my thoughts out to work through them, hear everyone's ESH. Some days I am doing well and other days I (feel) like I am right back to where I started months ago.
I am struggling with my active alcoholic saying he's not drinking. Saying he's in recovery. Saying he's, and I quote "beaten it"... (he is still not currently living at home) he tells me that he "has only had 1 drink in two weeks" but I have texts and phone conversations that prove otherwise. Of course I am not in the same room with him- so maybe he thinks telling me he isn't drinking is believable.
About 2 weeks ago I made the mistake (I use the word loosely) of answering the phone when he called drunk. *back story, I haven't talked (on the phone) with him drunk or been around him drunk in many many months* So he calls and it's the circular talking- the accusing me of "another man" and then asking over and over about it- and if I love him to in the next moment turning more sexual. Ugh I tried to stay calm (and considering I used to "poke back" there is some progress) but I didn't know in that moment how to disengage and/or detach. He kept calling and texting. When he started cussing I told him firmly I wouldn't be spoken to that way (so a small boundary in the moment I guess). Luckily I had a program friend that called me and helped me get past the "moment"... as he called several times while I was on the phone with her. I just felt unprepared. Insert -two days later- him telling me how good he's been and only had 2 drinks in 3 weeks (or some nonsense). Mind boggling to me. More to that weekend story, but not a new story.
Fast forward to this weekend. He was supposed to go pumpkin gathering with boys and I Sunday, and then said we could get pumpkins and he would come over after a work meeting. Boys and I do our thing, go home and he calls to say he has to work. Fine. I am the first to admit I had a bit of "hope" that he would follow thru- silly at this point based on his behavior- so I was resentful. Moving forward I pulled myself together and did pumpkin decorating with my boys. The string of texts start- first to say that he's sorry I am mad but he has to work so hard, and he's so important, and just got a raise so I should praise him, has to pay bills (whole other story), etc. I just said I wasn't mad, but I was disappointed. On to cleaning pumpkin seeds- now I become resentful, I have no desire to roast pumpkin seeds, just not my jam but there I was cleaning seeds (that was supposed to be HIS activity with the boys) and here come the onslaught of texts. Buzz Buzz Buzz... About how I only want him around for money- I don't talk to him about anything accept picking up boys and giving me money- and if it isn't about giving me money then I don't want anything to do with him (picture up to arms in pumpkin guts)- he just wants to know- he doesn't believe I love him- on and on and on. So I state I am cleaning pumpkin seeds, few other messages then the story changes............ now he says........... "you know I have an alcohol problem, you don't ask how I am doing, you don't ask about my recovery- I see my sponsor 3 times a week, I work more to keep from drinking--- I have beaten it"---- it feels like lucid insanity.
At this point in the conversation I am in meltdown mode, trying to find some clear thinking thoughts, but struggling........ *bam* switch to me lashing out at my boys because they were banging around upstairs (not doing anything wrong, just playing as boys do).
And just like that his insanity was in my head. How do I speak to someone who is literally trying to convince me of his sobriety that doesn't exist? I am trying to put the phone away,, turn off notifications, not respond. But days like yesterday I just couldn't. And once I was out of the fog chatting with a program friend I looked back at the messages and could CLEARLY see what he was doing. But in the moment I couldn't.
And today- I struggle with the guilt of how harsh I was with my boys. Just thinking about it brings me to tears. Crying in my counselors office earlier today when I spoke about it. Crying now. I just can't stop and move past it. My youngest was ok, my older 7 yr old was upset. I hugged him and told him I was so sorry.
They don't deserve that from me- I don't deserve that from him. and with all my work/progress here I sit feeling broken today.
Please be gentle with you. When I stand in my own truth and just allow the situation around me to play out then it seems to workout better.
As far as the whole parenting fail issue .. LOL .. welcome to the club .. it happens .. it sucks and there is a lesson to be learned. Beating yourself up for not being perfect isn't going to "fix" the past. It just is what it is .. assess the situation and move forward.
Slipping is part of the program because without those lessons there is no room for growth. No one has it all together all of the time. If that was the case there would be 12 meetings, no more alanon after that and that's just not life .. life is flawlessly messy on a good day and imperfectly perfect on a bad day.
Keep doing you .. keep coming back and I believe that you will come out on the other side. The disappointments are hard sometimes especially when there is the expectation of just maybe this time it's true.
Hugs S :)
One day/moment at a time.
At one time the ex A went to a recovery program. He played the game really well there of how committed he was. The moment he got out he started back up.
Alcoholics lie quite a lot. The main person they lie to of course is themselves.
When I get completely enmeshed with an alcoholic my self care goes by the window.
Then I bring it all down on myself.
I am a human who has issues. Sometimes I fall down.
The main thing is I get back up.
There is no formula to deal with someone who is lying to you. I think the best formula is to be aware they are lying. Have no expectations.\
I am around people who lie all the time. I expect very little from them in terms of taking care of me.
My own expectations were the problem for me. I kept expecting the ex A to start acting like a partner. The only partnership he had was with alcohol,
Maresie.
Pumpkin you have received some very good feedback from the ladies of MIP and I got my memory lane memories back. It was the ladies of Al-Anon that saved my butt and often with the same feed back you have received here. I wasn't allowed to use the terms I can't or I won't or such because they knew I was just practicing my self pity and wanting to be rescued without dialing program 911 and then I got in the habit of not using those terms and came to believe I could and would work the program as suggested. Lucid Insanity...got it...had it...don't use it anymore. Keep coming back. Pumpkin guts...how real is that?? (((((hugs)))))
I do know now that 'action' in recovery is vastly different than action before recovery. Before recovery, I spent a ton of time looking outside myself for the cause/effect/solutions. Today, instead, I try to use the serenity prayer and our tools to look inside myself for the cause/effect/solutions. I heard early on 'that which I spend my focus on grows' and it's been proven time and time again. As Jerry points out, I really had to lean into others with more experience and practice what they suggested. My habit(s) were unhealthy and certainly not forward facing.
My hope is that your share brought you some relief - when I share, it does seem to lesson my burden. Be gentle with you and know you aren't alone!! (((Hugs)))
Jerry- what struck me the most is when you spoke about not be allowed to use "I can't" or "I won't"... and I went back and re-read my post and saw the "I couldn't"(s). And as I hopped on to the online meeting, the topic was "self-care" and suddenly the pieces fell into place- Sunday I wasn't practicing self-care, I was throwing my self care out the window. Self care to me I have learned, sometimes means, not answering the phone, putting it down, turning off the notifications, etc. I had it in my head that I "couldn't" not answer. A program friend told me- that awful night I reference from a couple weeks ago where I answered the phone- that she says to herself "do *I* HAVE anything to say, or NEED to say anything" and if the answer is "no" then she doesn't respond. So while I was in up to my elbows in pumpkin guts (hahaha if you've ever seeded a pumpkin that's exactly what it feels like I am doing hahaha) I didn't "NEED" to talk and I had nothing I wanted to say in that moment. There are many tools I had in my head but I struggled to find them.
I am good at forgetting that I have choices. I think I answer (sometimes) still out of fear- it's a weird pavlonian response with the phone. I am getting better, especially at night, I turn off notifications. I think in that moment I thought I should call someone, and I hesitated. I didn't make the call when I should have. Still a newbie, and I do reach out, but sometimes I do get sucked into the self-pity and wallow for a bit.
Iamhere- thank you as well! I keep reading what you wrote over and over especially about action and your quote about "that which I spend my focus on grows" Yes typing it all out does tend to help me to move past it. I like to read it back as well, especially with perspective from shares.