There I was battling along, but head above water..and then today I sank. After having enough of the alcoholism especially the emotional absence, I kicked him out (abf). I had very good reasons, including a physical attack and lots and lots of disloyalty and betrayal. But then today, he comes to visit the boys (7,8) and I jumped right back into the torture...'if you loved us you'd get better...why can't you try... why can't you just leave the toxic family business and we can start fresh...don't you love them...don't you have happy memories etc etc like it was his call, his decision.
And he said that it will never get better since I dont get on with his family!!! So now its not that he's a disinterested binge drinking alcoholic...its my fault for not getting on with his awful violent faking controlling enabling parents!!!
So I relapsed back to the beginning. All that hard work and battling, gone in one sad pathetic half an hour of trying to persuade him to do a deal to get sober. Just to get him back, to get my fantasy dream family back, to get their dad back. And I knew I would hate my self and I knew I would fail again and I did.
So I keep thinking my heart is breaking and I'm losing the love of my life, And all the time wasted and all the memories and all the dreams...lost.
I keep chanting that I'm powerless, but...I want to be powerful. I want to make it better.
So..is this a broken heart and a lost love or is it just fear of powerlessness. Lack of control. Terror of betrayal? I keep thinking its ok to have feelings. feel them then carry on but I can't get there. I want revenge and acknowledgement and validation. Mostly I just want the false fantastical image of the man I loved back. I want my precious brave boys to have a great committed father and I want my friend, confidant, partner back. I am so very sad and bitter and angry that I cant.
So please remind me that this is normal and that I will feel better (or less) if I just start the steps again and that I never actually had what I feel is lost. And please remind me that I could one day be happy and believe in something again.
Thanks
mamakat71 said
Oct 16, 2017
Hi Lisa.
I am rather new here myself and I am exactly where you are at. I spent my weekend enraged and threatening to divorce my ah because he has been sneaking around and lying to me about drinking. I did say he can't have the alcohol in our home anymore so in a way I guess he is doing what I asked of him. But I am still hurt and angry. I think it is normal because we are human to have and feel these emotions, but we cannot let those emotions define us and hold us back from seeking the path of recovery for ourselves. Even when I am yelling or crying during these times with my ah I can feel my HP saying is this going to get you the results you desire? I know it won't so I need to continue to work the steps and try to find ways for me to stop being sick. I really understand the loss of the love and life that you describe. I also feel that way. Some will say that we were living a life of dillusion, but I too wonder about that. The blaming the drinking on you not getting along with his family is just the alcoholic talking and I too struggle with remembering that they say many things that are not true to try to hold onto a reason or excuse to drink or blame us. My ah does this too. I hope you will continue to try to find recovery for you because we can only seek recovery for ourselves. There is always hope that those around us can see those positive changes and want to get healthy too. From reading stories on here and hearing those in the f2f meetings tell of finding a way to become happy, I am excited that yes! we can find happiness. Sending you positive vibes and hugs. We are not alone on this journey anymore. Have a good day!
Iamhere said
Oct 16, 2017
(((Lisa))) - I hear you and yes ... it does happen. For me, there is this 'need' to keep trudging along before I jump and it has gotten me in trouble many times. At any point I am restless, I return to step one. I don't feel grounded without recalling, remembering, embracing how powerless I am over this disease and most other people, places and things!
You are not alone!
bettyk said
Oct 16, 2017
((Lisa)) you have just described my last few years of marriage You are not alone and I assure that practicing alanon will help you to regain your self esteem and self worth,empower you to reach out in a constuctive manner to the world and live and let live. Keep on keeping on
Jerry F said
Oct 16, 2017
You sound wise to the disease Lisa and that you know and know that you know even though you don't like any of it. Yes that is normal for alcoholism. You didn't cause this, cannot control it and will not cure it. Those are the 3 C's of Al-Anon and they took a lot of pressure off of me when I first learned them. I was married to an alcoholic/addict wife and would try to do anything to help her learn and get sober and the problem was I didn't know about alcoholism or how to cure or fix her so I became co-dependent to the disease. When it wanted her it got us both and we both went down the slide together until I started listening to the elders and following the program as prescribed.
Did I love her? after I learned about what love was which wasn't my first awareness I came to love her deeply without having the NEED to be married to her...I didn't NEED her I loved her. There is a large difference and I learned my needing was about my addiction to her.
Hope some of this helps and I hope you keep coming back often. (((((hugs)))))
Maresie said
Oct 17, 2017
My ex A contracted a rare muscular skin disease. If he goes in the sun his skin literally starts peeling off. His mother takes him on active hiking holudays. She believes in #fresh air#
He is currently staying at her house. She has him installed on the porch to get #fresh air#
I know all about toxic families. Indeed I came from one.
I have to say I have also been around alcoholic's who contributed immensely to toxicity. I spent a lot of time arguong
Al ann had a great tool called JADE. That is not to Justify, argue. Deny or envy. That is a good tool to use.
Arguing with an active alcoholic is a fruitless task. They want ti argue, they goad you into arguing. Some people do indeed recover from alcoholism but they have to reach that certain point where it no longer works for them
Personally I dont like to label #love#as being sick. I know I always meant the best for those I loved. Not having good boundaries is not sick its immature. Being enmeshed innan alcoholic relationship is not #sick# it is unfortunate.
Trafitionalky an alcoholic manipulates things so that it aloears everyone ese is #sick# instead of them. The battle of who is #sickest# is not one I have ever won.
The lenses I view my behavior through is one of compassion and love. I do not beat myself uo for it. Boundaries around someone with substance abuse histories are notoriously difficult.
I know when I am entering the lion's den these days. That particular venue no longer appears as attractive to me. Arguing no longer is my forte. Self preservation is.
Maresie
lisa sa said
Oct 17, 2017
Hello again,
Firstly thank you to everyone for being there and for perspective.
I am hanging on for dear life to ODAT and trusting the wave will pass.
I am also going to try to implement JADE in my though processes at least. It is killing me to think that his family have "won" so I'm not going to think that any more. I am reading and rereading everything on the site because it all helps.
Somewhere deep down I know there is light.
Thank you again
Lisa
Bettertomorrow said
Oct 17, 2017
Hi Lisa,
Yes in my personal experience it is normal. I went through a whole mourning period for the 'dream' that I so badly wanted back. What Al Anon taught me was that I had lost sight of the love for myself - meaning that my self worth and self esteem had been battered to such a low that I accepted my AHs behaviour as a new normality. I reached my own rock bottom and asked him to leave - he eventually did after some awful behaviour. Those first few weeks were hard - as a single mum of four I felt lost. However, bit by bit and with lots of support from Al Anon I learned to focus on me and love myself enough not to accept that behaviour again. My AH has been gone six months. He has stayed in contact with the children by phone everyday and appears sober. We are having him back for visits soon. I don't know what the future will hold. I don't know if I 'love' him anymore, but I do have compassion and the children now want to see their father. I have strong boundaries in place and my life is now focused on me and the children. He may or may not be a part of it. He may choose to still drink and I can now accept that is his decision and his life, but with the greatest respect to him he will do that on his own or with another partner as I will no longer accept that as part of my or the children's lives. Hugs to you in your own journey.
SerenityRUS said
Oct 17, 2017
Big hugs .. I'm so sorry .. this is a painful disease. I think it's important to really remember that none if this is personal even though it feels like a very intimate attack. I look back and in all fairness my perception and perspective of time I see I tried to make my ex what I wanted him to be and didn't accept who he was/ is in the beginning so starting out as awful as this will sound is I was already disappointed in my ex because of all of the unrealistic expectations I already had of him. I mourned what never would or could be because I created a fantasy. Yes it gets better .. sometimes peeling off layers feels like new skin after a sunburn exposed .. I usually call that dropping down the rabbit hole. It's frustrating only because the 2 steps backwards feels like miles. I really encourage you to be extremely gentle with yourself. This is a completely unreasonable situation and at least for me convincing my brain and heart to get on the same page is something that is not always as simple as it sounds. There is nothing remotely sane about loving an active addict because the disease is completely unreasonable. Hugs s :)
MeTwo2 said
Oct 23, 2017
it will never get better because you don't get on with my family .. Big Sigh .. i heard the Exact Same Thing .. translation .. alcoholism is a family disease .. if you aren't sick 'enough you aren't in .. sometimes good people with a Selfish baffling hidden manipulating cunning (excusing and justifying) disease .. there's also the enmeshment piece .. not sure there was ever a Real time (except for today) when i was Ever around him or speaking to him when i didn't Feel the Entire family right there with him .. (In him) .. not sure you will relate with this .. today i know when i am talking to him (i) am talking to him .. (I) am anyway .. I recognize the enmeshment but nothing has changed for him .. it's changing for me as i go ..
the hope ? this program is all about change .. fear to faith .. doubt to trust .. hate to love .. despair to hope etc .. yes if we keep moving forward we will keep moving forward ..
i love what jerry wrote ..
Did I love her? after I learned about what love was which wasn't my first awareness ''I came to love her deeply without having the NEED to be married to her''...''I didn't NEED her I loved her.'' There is a large difference and ''I learned my needing was about my addiction to her.'' (powerful for me too) .. making a mental note and storing this one !
I had So much hate for so long .. i Thought i Hated the person .. relieved to realise i hate the anger fear blame accusations criticisms confusion and much more .. (i am beginning to love the person)
definitely a work in process here .. wishing you serenity ... hope you keep coming back and sharing .. without spiritual help living with alcoholism and loving an alcoholic is often too much for most of 'alone ..
-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Monday 23rd of October 2017 04:18:45 AM
LostInTheBubble said
Oct 24, 2017
I had to remove the abf from my home a little over a month ago. We are still in contact and working independently on our own programs. I think it is very easy to think "if he just loved me enough" or "if he wanted a life with me enough". If there is one thing I have learned in my short time with Al-Anon it is that I have nothing to do with it. Either did the women he had relationships with before me. He has a problem and I am powerless over HIM and the ALCOHOL.
The thing is, I am a very independent person. For day to day existence I don't need him. I love him on an emotional level, and I often ask myself at certain times is it codependence or love. I certainly have done lots of codependent things in our relationship that I know I would never do today. Six months ago I was dropping everything to drive hours to go save him from himself. This weekend he invited me for a visit. I have plans and reminded him of this. I think he was surprised I didn't drop everything for a chance to see him. These are the little life lessons I am trying to celebrate each day.
el-cee said
Oct 24, 2017
I see a lot of recovery in your post. For one, you can actually see your self so your not in that dark cave of denial and so your progress is ongoing even if you cant see it yourself. There was a reading recently about this, about sometimes we go back and actually its to get a deeper level of awareness and understanding so relapses or slips can be part of our journey and serve a purpose in our progress. Im also very hard on myself at times but recently Ive been thinking a lot about treating myself with more compassion and forgiveness and understanding. We are only human dealing with a cunning baffling disease and we are never going to be perfect in our recovery and thats ok we are good enough.
MeTwo2 said
Oct 24, 2017
For one, you can actually see your self so your not in that dark (not so in the dark) .. el-cee thank you for this !! you've helped me too more than you know today ..
Hello All
There I was battling along, but head above water..and then today I sank. After having enough of the alcoholism especially the emotional absence, I kicked him out (abf). I had very good reasons, including a physical attack and lots and lots of disloyalty and betrayal. But then today, he comes to visit the boys (7,8) and I jumped right back into the torture...'if you loved us you'd get better...why can't you try... why can't you just leave the toxic family business and we can start fresh...don't you love them...don't you have happy memories etc etc like it was his call, his decision.
And he said that it will never get better since I dont get on with his family!!! So now its not that he's a disinterested binge drinking alcoholic...its my fault for not getting on with his awful violent faking controlling enabling parents!!!
So I relapsed back to the beginning. All that hard work and battling, gone in one sad pathetic half an hour of trying to persuade him to do a deal to get sober. Just to get him back, to get my fantasy dream family back, to get their dad back. And I knew I would hate my self and I knew I would fail again and I did.
So I keep thinking my heart is breaking and I'm losing the love of my life, And all the time wasted and all the memories and all the dreams...lost.
I keep chanting that I'm powerless, but...I want to be powerful. I want to make it better.
So..is this a broken heart and a lost love or is it just fear of powerlessness. Lack of control. Terror of betrayal? I keep thinking its ok to have feelings. feel them then carry on but I can't get there. I want revenge and acknowledgement and validation. Mostly I just want the false fantastical image of the man I loved back. I want my precious brave boys to have a great committed father and I want my friend, confidant, partner back. I am so very sad and bitter and angry that I cant.
So please remind me that this is normal and that I will feel better (or less) if I just start the steps again and that I never actually had what I feel is lost. And please remind me that I could one day be happy and believe in something again.
Thanks
Hi Lisa.
I am rather new here myself and I am exactly where you are at. I spent my weekend enraged and threatening to divorce my ah because he has been sneaking around and lying to me about drinking. I did say he can't have the alcohol in our home anymore so in a way I guess he is doing what I asked of him
. But I am still hurt and angry. I think it is normal because we are human to have and feel these emotions, but we cannot let those emotions define us and hold us back from seeking the path of recovery for ourselves. Even when I am yelling or crying during these times with my ah I can feel my HP saying is this going to get you the results you desire? I know it won't so I need to continue to work the steps and try to find ways for me to stop being sick. I really understand the loss of the love and life that you describe. I also feel that way. Some will say that we were living a life of dillusion, but I too wonder about that. The blaming the drinking on you not getting along with his family is just the alcoholic talking and I too struggle with remembering that they say many things that are not true to try to hold onto a reason or excuse to drink or blame us. My ah does this too. I hope you will continue to try to find recovery for you because we can only seek recovery for ourselves. There is always hope that those around us can see those positive changes and want to get healthy too. From reading stories on here and hearing those in the f2f meetings tell of finding a way to become happy, I am excited that yes! we can find happiness. Sending you positive vibes and hugs. We are not alone on this journey anymore. Have a good day!
You are not alone!
You sound wise to the disease Lisa and that you know and know that you know even though you don't like any of it. Yes that is normal for alcoholism. You didn't cause this, cannot control it and will not cure it. Those are the 3 C's of Al-Anon and they took a lot of pressure off of me when I first learned them. I was married to an alcoholic/addict wife and would try to do anything to help her learn and get sober and the problem was I didn't know about alcoholism or how to cure or fix her so I became co-dependent to the disease. When it wanted her it got us both and we both went down the slide together until I started listening to the elders and following the program as prescribed.
Did I love her? after I learned about what love was which wasn't my first awareness I came to love her deeply without having the NEED to be married to her...I didn't NEED her I loved her. There is a large difference and I learned my needing was about my addiction to her.
Hope some of this helps and I hope you keep coming back often. (((((hugs)))))
My ex A contracted a rare muscular skin disease. If he goes in the sun his skin literally starts peeling off. His mother takes him on active hiking holudays. She believes in #fresh air#
He is currently staying at her house. She has him installed on the porch to get #fresh air#
I know all about toxic families. Indeed I came from one.
I have to say I have also been around alcoholic's who contributed immensely to toxicity. I spent a lot of time arguong
Al ann had a great tool called JADE. That is not to Justify, argue. Deny or envy. That is a good tool to use.
Arguing with an active alcoholic is a fruitless task. They want ti argue, they goad you into arguing. Some people do indeed recover from alcoholism but they have to reach that certain point where it no longer works for them
Personally I dont like to label #love#as being sick. I know I always meant the best for those I loved. Not having good boundaries is not sick its immature. Being enmeshed innan alcoholic relationship is not #sick# it is unfortunate.
Trafitionalky an alcoholic manipulates things so that it aloears everyone ese is #sick# instead of them. The battle of who is #sickest# is not one I have ever won.
The lenses I view my behavior through is one of compassion and love. I do not beat myself uo for it. Boundaries around someone with substance abuse histories are notoriously difficult.
I know when I am entering the lion's den these days. That particular venue no longer appears as attractive to me. Arguing no longer is my forte. Self preservation is.
Maresie
Hello again,
Firstly thank you to everyone for being there and for perspective.
I am hanging on for dear life to ODAT and trusting the wave will pass.
I am also going to try to implement JADE in my though processes at least. It is killing me to think that his family have "won" so I'm not going to think that any more. I am reading and rereading everything on the site because it all helps.
Somewhere deep down I know there is light.
Thank you again
Lisa
Hi Lisa,
Yes in my personal experience it is normal. I went through a whole mourning period for the 'dream' that I so badly wanted back. What Al Anon taught me was that I had lost sight of the love for myself - meaning that my self worth and self esteem had been battered to such a low that I accepted my AHs behaviour as a new normality. I reached my own rock bottom and asked him to leave - he eventually did after some awful behaviour. Those first few weeks were hard - as a single mum of four I felt lost. However, bit by bit and with lots of support from Al Anon I learned to focus on me and love myself enough not to accept that behaviour again. My AH has been gone six months. He has stayed in contact with the children by phone everyday and appears sober. We are having him back for visits soon. I don't know what the future will hold. I don't know if I 'love' him anymore, but I do have compassion and the children now want to see their father. I have strong boundaries in place and my life is now focused on me and the children. He may or may not be a part of it. He may choose to still drink and I can now accept that is his decision and his life, but with the greatest respect to him he will do that on his own or with another partner as I will no longer accept that as part of my or the children's lives. Hugs to you in your own journey.
it will never get better because you don't get on with my family .. Big Sigh .. i heard the Exact Same Thing .. translation .. alcoholism is a family disease .. if you aren't sick 'enough you aren't in ..
sometimes good people with a Selfish baffling hidden manipulating cunning (excusing and justifying) disease .. there's also the enmeshment piece .. not sure there was ever a Real time (except for today) when i was Ever around him or speaking to him when i didn't Feel the Entire family right there with him .. (In him) .. not sure you will relate with this ..
today i know when i am talking to him (i) am talking to him .. (I) am anyway .. I recognize the enmeshment but nothing has changed for him .. it's changing for me as i go ..
the hope ? this program is all about change .. fear to faith .. doubt to trust .. hate to love .. despair to hope etc .. yes if we keep moving forward we will keep moving forward ..
i love what jerry wrote ..
Did I love her? after I learned about what love was which wasn't my first awareness ''I came to love her deeply without having the NEED to be married to her''...''I didn't NEED her I loved her.'' There is a large difference and ''I learned my needing was about my addiction to her.'' (powerful for me too) .. making a mental note and storing this one !
I had So much hate for so long .. i Thought i Hated the person .. relieved to realise i hate the anger fear blame accusations criticisms confusion and much more .. (i am beginning to love the person)
definitely a work in process here .. wishing you serenity ... hope you keep coming back and sharing .. without spiritual help living with alcoholism and loving an alcoholic is often too much for most of 'alone ..
-- Edited by MeTwo2 on Monday 23rd of October 2017 04:18:45 AM
The thing is, I am a very independent person. For day to day existence I don't need him. I love him on an emotional level, and I often ask myself at certain times is it codependence or love. I certainly have done lots of codependent things in our relationship that I know I would never do today. Six months ago I was dropping everything to drive hours to go save him from himself. This weekend he invited me for a visit. I have plans and reminded him of this. I think he was surprised I didn't drop everything for a chance to see him. These are the little life lessons I am trying to celebrate each day.
I see a lot of recovery in your post. For one, you can actually see your self so your not in that dark cave of denial and so your progress is ongoing even if you cant see it yourself. There was a reading recently about this, about sometimes we go back and actually its to get a deeper level of awareness and understanding so relapses or slips can be part of our journey and serve a purpose in our progress. Im also very hard on myself at times but recently Ive been thinking a lot about treating myself with more compassion and forgiveness and understanding. We are only human dealing with a cunning baffling disease and we are never going to be perfect in our recovery and thats ok we are good enough.