So I think that I've confused detachment with ignoring the behavior. I need help to learn what the difference is. I need scenarios. I feel like ignoring his drinking is giving him the impression that I just don't care anymore. I have a meeting tonight, but I can't wait. This is driving me mad. I can't find much on the internet about the difference.
Freetime said
Oct 2, 2017
I found that detachment took time to develop, and my sponsor rightly suggested that I be gentle with myself as I moved towards detachment with love, which is our goal. And I know that sounds impossible; it sounded impossible to me.
I totally understand feeling mad when faced with drinking. Some things that helped me in the moment were to go for a walk, or start making a list of places I could go if things got bad. I had to take care of my own craziness, as I couldn't fix his.
Maybe ignoring is more like denial, where we pretend to ourselves that something isn't happening. Detachment could be, we acknowledge to ourselves that it is happening, accept that we cannot stop it from happening, and decide that we are not going to let it destroy our sanity.
In my experience, if my AH was aware that I saw he was drinking, he might feel ashamed, but it did not stop him from drinking, just made him try harder to hide it. When I "called h im on the carpet" about it, it just made him angry. And this was a man who normally was never angry with me.
Maybe something to consider would be, if we feel that we have to say something to the other person, it could be about a behavior that they have a better chance of controlling, but not the drinking, which is very difficult for them to control without help from higher powers.
Those are just my random thoughts ... I hope one of them might help.
hotrod said
Oct 2, 2017
Welcome Crnag I agree with your share Freetime-- Ignore seems to resemble the denial of reality where as in detachment we are acknowledging, (to ourselves) that this is happening and we chose to take care of ourselves because we accept the fact that we are powerless over others.
-- Edited by hotrod on Monday 2nd of October 2017 09:20:59 PM
The1975jen said
Oct 2, 2017
I agree this takes some time to learn. Be patient with yourself :) When my RAH was active, At some point I realized I no longer enjoyed talking to him when he was slurring his words. So I got into the habit of removing myself at that point. I went and did something I enjoyed more. Which usually meant taking the dog for a walk, or going into the bedroom to watch tv and lay down on the bed and relax, or take a bath or a shower, go to the gym, or play on my phone (something I enjoy). For me, detaching is hand-in-hand with knowing what *I* enjoy and doing something I wanted to do. Perhaps don't think about it as black and white but a sliding scale - as you detach you will engage/fret over him less and engage and fret over yourself more. Ask yourself in that moment, what would I like to do for the next few minutes?
HTH,
Jen
WestMan said
Oct 2, 2017
Hi Cmag3. I've struggled with this too. Everyone says it takes some practice. When I was new I had a lot of negative attitudes. As I have made small changes in attitude I can tell that things like detaching with love are getting easier. I would still say that I'm simply ignoring much of the time. I'm ok with it. I can't control the alcoholic. I'm grateful that I'm no longer tearing myself up fretting over whether they're drinking, how much, who with, etc. Progress not perfection.
Jerry F said
Oct 3, 2017
Both have their own body language and participation. When I ignore I act as if there is nothing there and that the alcoholic/addict isn't important. It is kinda like a practiced denial and disrespect...they just don't have anything I want to speak or listen to and don't exist. I ignore. In detachment which for me came with and inside of the program and it's practice I leave her to and support her in finding solutions without creating solutions other than the support as I can. I don't devote myself to working it out for her...it is her disease and her recovery. This was a hard journey for me and my wife as we had a practiced involvement which often didn't work and still was practiced. We kept doing the wrong things over and over again expecting different results so we did insanity on a daily basis until I got into and started my own program and left her alone and she finally having enough got into her recovery and became a miracle. It works when you work it ....I don't think it is possible for an enabler to ignore the alcoholic...they are our addiction with allergy. Keep coming back...great question. ((((hugs))))
Aline said
Oct 3, 2017
This is a great question, and I love all the perpectives shared here. I think that what the other person thinks or says he/she thinks of my behavior is not necessarily a reflection of reality as long as I am sure about what I'm doing or saying and why. My A has also vehemently accused me of not caring anymore, yet I know it isn't true and I was doing what I needed to take care of me, focus on me and not stay crazy. Keep coming back ;)
Enigmatic said
Oct 3, 2017
Hi Cmag. Good comments above, I would say that I found great clarity turning to the readers, Courage to Change and One Day at a Time in AlAnon, and reading through the pages found in the index under "Detachment".
There are many readings and several that really helped me dial in a more healthy view of detachment that worked for me and my situation. Wish you the best
Maresie25 said
Oct 3, 2017
Maybe you are getting ignoring confused with denial. Denial is when something is happening but because of various issues you act like nothing is happening.
Ignoring can be a behavioral technique. For example when a child has a tantrum in the store, the maxim is to remove the child and take them outside. Some parents then allow a child to let it all out but they don't give them any attention for it. That would be a good use of ignoring. Ignoring is certainly not addressing the issue.
Then there is detachment. Detachment is an active way for a spouse or partner of an alcoholic or any kind of addict, working on ways to preserve themselves. Detaching is a way to emotionally temper down your reaction to someone acting in ways that harm themselves. It certainly is not about ignoring. Indeed detachment is all about actively addressing the issue.
Detachment is a way to emotionally survive in an active, very specific way. That is one reason that people talk about practising.
There is also a lot of judgment and misunderstanding about detachment. Detachment is a skill. You don't get to a PhD level right away.
Psychologists and social workers spend years learning how to detach. Believe me they could not take home their clients problems with them at night.
They wouldn't survive their career if they did that. So they have to emotionally detach. They certainly are not ignoring their clients problems by doing that.
Denial is a automatic survival function. Denial is essential for a child for example. If you are a small child for example you could not acknowledge your parent is drinking themselves to death.
The anxiety and fear associated with that would be too much for a child to handle. There are levels of denial and there are plenty of professionals who are around to help people deal with that.
Detaching is an active way to help yourself. Detaching is not about not caring. Detaching is all about making sure that you are functional, capable and healthy.
One person is actively destroying themselves with alcohol. There doesn't have to be another person along for the ride in order to show you "care".
Detaching is also about learning how to do a new skill. Any skill is hard to learn. There is a lot of trial and error involved. There is a lot of practice involved.
There are ways to practice around an alcoholic. Every day there are opportunities to detach from difficult commutes, difficult people and all the trials of daily living.
You don't go from experimenting to being able to deal with an alcoholic in full binge mode.
No one wants to be in a beginner mode. But you have to start somewhere. There is a lot of literature about detaching from various authors, like Melody Beattie and others.
No one started out as an expert.
I know for me when I was dealing with an alcoholic I wanted them to change. They were after all the problem.
I didn't want to do all the work. I felt like they owed me. They did not agree.
They didn't change one iota. I did. They still have not changed one iota many years later.
I don't live with them anymore, indeed I don't directly interact with them anymore at all. I still care about them. The caring didn't change, my response to their behavior changed. I just don't permit their behavior to have such a devastating effect on my life anymore.
Detachment was one very very essential part of making change for me.
Maresie.
Iamhere said
Oct 3, 2017
Like Paul, the readers were helpful for me.....I also was allowed (sponsor) to ignore behavior until I learned detachment, especially if it kept me from engaging in the insanity. As I have grown, my ability to be of service while detaching has gotten better. It has taken me a while to be able to help one of my guys and not fall apart or take it personally or even blame me for their actions. Progress always and not perfection!
So I think that I've confused detachment with ignoring the behavior. I need help to learn what the difference is. I need scenarios. I feel like ignoring his drinking is giving him the impression that I just don't care anymore. I have a meeting tonight, but I can't wait. This is driving me mad. I can't find much on the internet about the difference.
I totally understand feeling mad when faced with drinking. Some things that helped me in the moment were to go for a walk, or start making a list of places I could go if things got bad. I had to take care of my own craziness, as I couldn't fix his.
Maybe ignoring is more like denial, where we pretend to ourselves that something isn't happening. Detachment could be, we acknowledge to ourselves that it is happening, accept that we cannot stop it from happening, and decide that we are not going to let it destroy our sanity.
In my experience, if my AH was aware that I saw he was drinking, he might feel ashamed, but it did not stop him from drinking, just made him try harder to hide it. When I "called h im on the carpet" about it, it just made him angry. And this was a man who normally was never angry with me.
Maybe something to consider would be, if we feel that we have to say something to the other person, it could be about a behavior that they have a better chance of controlling, but not the drinking, which is very difficult for them to control without help from higher powers.
Those are just my random thoughts ... I hope one of them might help.
Welcome Crnag I agree with your share Freetime-- Ignore seems to resemble the denial of reality where as in detachment we are acknowledging, (to ourselves) that this is happening and we chose to take care of ourselves because we accept the fact that we are powerless over others.
-- Edited by hotrod on Monday 2nd of October 2017 09:20:59 PM
HTH,
Jen
Hi Cmag3. I've struggled with this too. Everyone says it takes some practice. When I was new I had a lot of negative attitudes. As I have made small changes in attitude I can tell that things like detaching with love are getting easier. I would still say that I'm simply ignoring much of the time. I'm ok with it. I can't control the alcoholic. I'm grateful that I'm no longer tearing myself up fretting over whether they're drinking, how much, who with, etc. Progress not perfection.
Both have their own body language and participation. When I ignore I act as if there is nothing there and that the alcoholic/addict isn't important. It is kinda like a practiced denial and disrespect...they just don't have anything I want to speak or listen to and don't exist. I ignore. In detachment which for me came with and inside of the program and it's practice I leave her to and support her in finding solutions without creating solutions other than the support as I can. I don't devote myself to working it out for her...it is her disease and her recovery. This was a hard journey for me and my wife as we had a practiced involvement which often didn't work and still was practiced. We kept doing the wrong things over and over again expecting different results so we did insanity on a daily basis until I got into and started my own program and left her alone and she finally having enough got into her recovery and became a miracle. It works when you work it ....I don't think it is possible for an enabler to ignore the alcoholic...they are our addiction with allergy. Keep coming back...great question. ((((hugs))))
There are many readings and several that really helped me dial in a more healthy view of detachment that worked for me and my situation. Wish you the best
Maybe you are getting ignoring confused with denial. Denial is when something is happening but because of various issues you act like nothing is happening.
Ignoring can be a behavioral technique. For example when a child has a tantrum in the store, the maxim is to remove the child and take them outside. Some parents then allow a child to let it all out but they don't give them any attention for it. That would be a good use of ignoring. Ignoring is certainly not addressing the issue.
Then there is detachment. Detachment is an active way for a spouse or partner of an alcoholic or any kind of addict, working on ways to preserve themselves. Detaching is a way to emotionally temper down your reaction to someone acting in ways that harm themselves. It certainly is not about ignoring. Indeed detachment is all about actively addressing the issue.
Detachment is a way to emotionally survive in an active, very specific way. That is one reason that people talk about practising.
There is also a lot of judgment and misunderstanding about detachment. Detachment is a skill. You don't get to a PhD level right away.
Psychologists and social workers spend years learning how to detach. Believe me they could not take home their clients problems with them at night.
They wouldn't survive their career if they did that. So they have to emotionally detach. They certainly are not ignoring their clients problems by doing that.
Denial is a automatic survival function. Denial is essential for a child for example. If you are a small child for example you could not acknowledge your parent is drinking themselves to death.
The anxiety and fear associated with that would be too much for a child to handle. There are levels of denial and there are plenty of professionals who are around to help people deal with that.
Detaching is an active way to help yourself. Detaching is not about not caring. Detaching is all about making sure that you are functional, capable and healthy.
One person is actively destroying themselves with alcohol. There doesn't have to be another person along for the ride in order to show you "care".
Detaching is also about learning how to do a new skill. Any skill is hard to learn. There is a lot of trial and error involved. There is a lot of practice involved.
There are ways to practice around an alcoholic. Every day there are opportunities to detach from difficult commutes, difficult people and all the trials of daily living.
You don't go from experimenting to being able to deal with an alcoholic in full binge mode.
No one wants to be in a beginner mode. But you have to start somewhere. There is a lot of literature about detaching from various authors, like Melody Beattie and others.
No one started out as an expert.
I know for me when I was dealing with an alcoholic I wanted them to change. They were after all the problem.
I didn't want to do all the work. I felt like they owed me. They did not agree.
They didn't change one iota. I did. They still have not changed one iota many years later.
I don't live with them anymore, indeed I don't directly interact with them anymore at all. I still care about them. The caring didn't change, my response to their behavior changed. I just don't permit their behavior to have such a devastating effect on my life anymore.
Detachment was one very very essential part of making change for me.
Maresie.