I think I just got a glimpse of what "Detaching with Love" looks like?
DellaElle said
Sep 25, 2017
I've heard this concept of detaching with love from Al-Anon for awhile, and seriously, I don't get it . I used to say "I can detach with anger, but not love", until I realized that when I'm angry at her, I'm reacting, not detaching. Not that it's not ok to feel angry - that's my internal warning alarm going off. It's just that staying angry, over a situation I can do nothing to change, makes me crazy.
I've written on this board before, about my alcoholic sister, and the situation she's in with her ex and her kids. I fluctuate between raging anger at the situation with some moments of calm, because there's kids involved. My desire to go in and just change her whole life around is very, very strong. Because, ya know, I've been pretty good at that codependent thing my whole life.
Except, I don't want that to be the thing I'm good at in relationships anymore. I want to become more skilled at taking care of me, and lovingly detaching from her.
Well, we were texting last night, and the mental gymnastics of denial and justification were making me feel crazy and dizzy and angry. I had one calm moment, though, where I realized "Ok, I don't think I could hear my HP now if It was sounding an air horn in my ear. Breathe, pray, and sleep on it".
So, I did. And I felt much better this morning. And when I read some of the stuff she wrote, I realized, she's afraid. I had forgotten that besides the denial that alcohol imposes, apart from that, when she's scared, she works even harder to make herself and everyone around her think everything's just fine. Especially when things are just plain bad, by any definition. Alcohol just inflates that a gazillion times over.
And with that, instead of trying to force myself to not to be angry with her, it just kinda happened. Like, the love came back in, and I saw how much pain she's in, instead of only seeing the pain she's causing others.
I texted her back, and said "It sounds like you're scared. Just wanted you to know you don't deserve this, and that I love you".
I mean, lol, I have no idea if that was a co-dependent statement or not. I am fresh out of the cocoon, and my butterfly wings are still wet.
I felt like I needed to speak the truth, as I saw it, without being mean or trying to manipulate her, or, my default, buying into and pretending I'm ok with it all. It didn't feel like it, because it doesn't feel like I'm trying to change her. Now that may change in the next 5 minutes, lol - who knows.
It's just that I had a moment of relief, where it felt like I could have some compassion, without needing to fix it or buy into it. For a second, I could say something that felt truthful, and let go of any expectation over what I said would do. I wanted my HP to take over, and guide me, instead of feeling like I needed to take the reigns.
That's what was different. It felt like I got a glimpse into what letting her go detaching with love might look like. Felt good not to be angry.
What's y'alls experiences with detaching with love? I would sure like to hear some ES&H with this. Like I said, this whole detaching with love is brand spankin' new to me.
Iamhere said
Sep 25, 2017
Della - lovely, lovely share.....I believe you are right! All that you experienced is a part of your acceptance journey and recovery. I consider myself a passionate soul and that passion is often released from me as aggression. I tried just about everything to get my A(s) to change - pleading, begging, yelling, threatening, silent treatment, and more and then I found recovery.
I had to just bit my tongue for a long while as it had been my best weapon for many years. I could slice and dice another up faster than they could 'spit' and felt justified in doing so. Patience and tolerance for me were not natural - they are practiced and learned behaviors. Slowly, my anger, rage, sadness and self-righteousness began to dissipate and I practiced responding instead of reacting. It was progress and there were mistakes yet each time I was able to respond in a kind, gentle or even neutral manner, I felt way better than any exchange before.
This truly opened the door for me to see that detachment is not about ignoring. Rather it is about embracing reality and accepting. It took me a while to find the compassion yet when I did, it also felt 'peaceful in my heart'. I truly, truly love my A(s) even though I hate this disease in them. Yet I know from my own personal experience that if they could see the light clearly, and free themselves from the bondage of the disease, they would. Drinking and drugging for an alcoholic/addict is as natural as scratching your nose or biting a fingernail to another. It's a habit that has become a dependency and no human power can or will relieve someone from it.
Bill W., one of the founding fathers of AA wrote about FEAR in a Grapevine Article way back in 1962. I read this a couple times a year as I am always so intrigued that I, a middle-aged woman can relate to the writings of a middle-aged man's feelings from 55 years ago! If interested, you can read it here - it's long (he's a wordy guy!!) - http://www.silkworth.net/grapevine/matter_fear.html
Good on you for realizing 'something has changed, and that change is you'!!! You're doing awesome!
Jerry F said
Sep 25, 2017
Aloha DellaElle and thanks for that teaching, sponsor quality share. It is much right on and has many old timers who raised me in Al-Anon wrapped up in it. I reviewed on of the favorite tool lessons I use often still...the walking away from the problem/issue and the turning around to it from afar so that I could see the whole problem and not just the "right in front of my nose", the "I am too close to recognize what I am messing with".
What you share is program work and program skills...so great to read it from another Al-Anon sister.
I came here to read specifically to get wisdom regarding how I am to handle an old problem with a neighbor which has gone on for over 20 years and of which I have just taken to a lawyer.
I have needed the extended time and other side issues to be able to see more clearly and become rightfully determined. We'll see how it progresses.
Again Mahalo (Thanks) for your ESH. (((((HUGS)))))
WestMan said
Sep 25, 2017
Sounds like progress.
DellaElle said
Sep 25, 2017
IAmHere - thank you so much. That really helped. I want to print out what you wrote and read it like it's a Hope For Today entry, lol. This statement you made "This truly opened the door for me to see that detachment is not about ignoring. Rather it is about embracing reality and accepting." just hit me right in the heart.
I just realized that what I've been doing is ignoring her, for a couple of years now, and I've mistaken that for detachment. Just in and out, spend time with the kids, goodbye, see ya. I set a boundary about 4 years ago, after I moved out from living with her, that I just couldn't help anymore. Well, I went the polar opposite and stayed far away, except spending time with the kids, especially over this last year. It's been like you said - I've bit my tongue so hard that it's raw.
But ignoring doesn't feel any better than enabling and rescuing now. I've just been stuck here, spinning my wheels.
And this: "Yet I know from my own personal experience that if they could see the light clearly, and free themselves from the bondage of the disease, they would."
I'm in AA, too, and I get on a self-righteous kick of "If I can do it, why can't YOU??" I don't say that, but I sure feel it, which spins the crazy. I don't know why today, but what you said rang clearly. It took me a long time to see the light. As in, it took me 12 years just to work Step One, lol. It's just been hard to let go enough to say "She just can't see it right now", so it helped to hear what you said.
And thank you Jerry :) I love what you said about walking away, turning around to it from afar so you can see the whole problem. That's a helpful visual. And very much good luck with your neighbor.
ETA: Thank you for the link to "The Matter of Fear"!
-- Edited by DellaElle on Monday 25th of September 2017 11:13:51 PM
Junenine said
Sep 25, 2017
amen! and i looove your butterfly line!
that was a beautiful moment - a reprieve, a moment of grace - you describe with your sister.
i feel like i'm beginning to begin to see progress in myself, too. my ex has been in AA on and off for years and has recently started attending al-anon. we are in the same area. and i'm glad for him, happy that he's pursuing recovery in various ways, including this program that has been "my territory" for the past few years of our relationship. he belongs there as well. i'm keeping it simple....
every day, every week is a new improv. what can i do or say that takes my interests in to account, feels authentic and self-focused but is also as kind as possible?
one day at a time. hugs.
Iamhere said
Sep 26, 2017
Good on all of us for forward movement in recovery. Junenine - that last line for me - One day at a time - has truly become the paramount of my existence. No matter how 'well' I try to work this program and practice these principles, my wickedly, wild brain has this strange desire to go back in time or project the future. As with all things in recovery, I had to accept that it is just wired differently. Once I accepted that I have a brain that struggles to be still and stay present, I learned how best to use our tools and slogans for my recovery.....hence - the three A(s) become more 'real' - Awareness, Acceptance and Action.
Della - both of my sons have been in/out of recovery. So, they know enough about AA to talk it and where to go should they want a different life. As of this moment, on Tuesday, at 8:04am CST, I can report that they are both in active recovery. My oldest bottomed out again last week, and actually did what the program suggests - he reached out and asked for help. He's absolutely crazily insane at the moment as he's trying to get sober, be a father, do his job, and attend his last year of college. He finds out today if his job intends to rescind their offer of a permanent position when he finishes school in May. It has taken an army of fellowship to keep me grounded in my own hula hoop and reasonably sane as he's stuck in the clean up/detox mode.
I bring this up solely because it was my boys, in some state of disease/recovery, who pointed out to me that I treated them differently than I treated others who relapsed in AA. They called me out on the carpet and it stopped me in my tracks. They were right! When a fellow member would share in a meeting, I had compassion, hugs and support for them. When my sons relapsed, I was angry and disappointed first, with sadness and fear as a chaser. It was humbling to become aware that I was practicing these principles in my affairs in a way that catered to my self-will and ego...I had to go back and work the steps just for my sons....with the hope that I could stop expecting more from them and me - the disease does not discriminate so why on Earth was I?
We live, we practice, we learn. We slip, we side-step, we fall down - yet...I feel so blessed that when I keep an open, humble mind, I can continue to learn and grow and change. Back to my brain and thinking - it still wants to react so often when crisis is around....with this program, I just accept that my first impulse is most likely not a healthy one, and work with others to consider the best step forward. I need every tool and resource available because left to my own devices (brain/emotions/baggage/etc.) I can quickly add to the problem instead of being part of the solution.
Great thread and yes - detaching is a lovely gift. My sponsor suggested that when I feel that feeling of 'my temperature is rising' I do pause, walk away, take a break, etc. In that moment, I am to ask myself, Can I be of service? or How can I be of service? Sometimes, the answer that is returned is to walk away and other times, the answer is to ask that very question, "How can I be of service?" This simple question helps me keep my program in mind vs. "How can I help?" which triggers for me more controlling thoughts. Crazy at times but true - words can kick start some obsessive thinking for me...
Make it a great day all - keep working it - it works so well!!
DellaElle said
Sep 26, 2017
Yup, I do the same thing with my sister. I have way more neutrality and compassion with any stranger that walks into AA than I can for my AS right now. I have waaay to much emotional investment and hooks and buttons right now with her. That's just one of the many reasons I am here - I have no clue how to stop feeling that way.
I used to talk about AA all the time, too, with her - what I was learning, what was changing, etc. It took me awhile to realize that was hurting both of us. I was becoming the face of AA, and with our relationship and my personal filter, it would always come off as promotion or "I'm better than you", whether that was my intention or not. It's very different to hear a room full of AA's, versus a family member's take. General program vs. personal program. Does that even make sense?
I looove how you found a way to side-step the thoughts that "How can I help?" triggers with "How can I be of service?". Honestly, I'm not at the stage where I can say "Service", because it feels like I'm saying "How can I be your servant?" I know it's warped thinking - it's just where I'm at today. But I can definitely see where that would help keep things maybe in balance. I was just asking that question of myself: How do I walk that thin line of needing to consider others, to think of others, without diving in overboard and leaving myself completely out of the equation. Because yes, my concept of "Help" is pretty warped, in that it means "How can I fix this for you?" This is all a dive into seeing what all the shades of grey are, versus that black and white thinking.
Staying in the hula hoop on Tuesday at 2:45pm MST. I love that you said that - brings that whole one day at a time thing down to the ground.
DellaElle said
Sep 26, 2017
Junenine, I love that "Every day is an improv"! I'm writing it down, because YES, that's exactly it.
Iamhere said
Sep 26, 2017
Me also - "Every day is an improv" - that's a keeper!!! Thanks to all for the great shares here!
DellaElle said
Sep 28, 2017
Junenine, I don't know why this didn't hit my brain the first time I read your post, but I just realized that it was your EX you were talking about.
I would say that's some pretty huge progress, to see him, lol, on "your turf" (I would feel that way), and feel happy that he's finding his way in this world. Thank you for sharing that. That gives me a lot of hope about the possibilities in recovery.
Junenine said
Oct 4, 2017
(((DellaElle))) thanks for your post... yes, in my situation it all seems very simple and very complex at the same time. we've been apart 4 months. we were (are?) very close, but his extended relapse did serious damage. he wants reunion and i don't... but i still love and don't hate him, despite deeply hurt feelings. i don't know. sometimes i think i have more empathy than i should, but most of the time i feel good about it.
one more thing, though... as you're talking about your sister. i have a sister. we have very similar values/moral compass, but very different temperaments. very opposite personalities in many ways. so we push each other's buttons. i think sibling relationships can be SO loaded - you go all the way back with each other - i think sometimes it makes it harder to detach. with love, especially.
right now my father is terminally ill. my sister's anxiety is so high that it affects others around her (myself included, of course). i've been more able to detach with love than i have in a long time, because i know she's freaked out about my father and protective and highly emotional - all understandable. it's a nice change. to stand back and say yes, i know you're freaked out, it's ok, the situation is highly stressful. we're all human.
i'm also managing better self care than i ever have during a crisis. which i attribute largely to the impact of this program.
I've heard this concept of detaching with love from Al-Anon for awhile, and seriously, I don't get it
. I used to say "I can detach with anger, but not love", until I realized that when I'm angry at her, I'm reacting, not detaching. Not that it's not ok to feel angry - that's my internal warning alarm going off. It's just that staying angry, over a situation I can do nothing to change, makes me crazy.
I've written on this board before, about my alcoholic sister, and the situation she's in with her ex and her kids. I fluctuate between raging anger at the situation with some moments of calm, because there's kids involved. My desire to go in and just change her whole life around is very, very strong. Because, ya know, I've been pretty good at that codependent thing my whole life.
Except, I don't want that to be the thing I'm good at in relationships anymore. I want to become more skilled at taking care of me, and lovingly detaching from her.
Well, we were texting last night, and the mental gymnastics of denial and justification were making me feel crazy and dizzy and angry. I had one calm moment, though, where I realized "Ok, I don't think I could hear my HP now if It was sounding an air horn in my ear. Breathe, pray, and sleep on it".
So, I did. And I felt much better this morning. And when I read some of the stuff she wrote, I realized, she's afraid. I had forgotten that besides the denial that alcohol imposes, apart from that, when she's scared, she works even harder to make herself and everyone around her think everything's just fine. Especially when things are just plain bad, by any definition. Alcohol just inflates that a gazillion times over.
And with that, instead of trying to force myself to not to be angry with her, it just kinda happened. Like, the love came back in, and I saw how much pain she's in, instead of only seeing the pain she's causing others.
I texted her back, and said "It sounds like you're scared. Just wanted you to know you don't deserve this, and that I love you".
I mean, lol, I have no idea if that was a co-dependent statement or not. I am fresh out of the cocoon, and my butterfly wings are still wet.
I felt like I needed to speak the truth, as I saw it, without being mean or trying to manipulate her, or, my default, buying into and pretending I'm ok with it all. It didn't feel like it, because it doesn't feel like I'm trying to change her. Now that may change in the next 5 minutes, lol - who knows.
It's just that I had a moment of relief, where it felt like I could have some compassion, without needing to fix it or buy into it. For a second, I could say something that felt truthful, and let go of any expectation over what I said would do. I wanted my HP to take over, and guide me, instead of feeling like I needed to take the reigns.
That's what was different. It felt like I got a glimpse into what letting her go detaching with love might look like. Felt good not to be angry.
What's y'alls experiences with detaching with love? I would sure like to hear some ES&H with this. Like I said, this whole detaching with love is brand spankin' new to me.
Della - lovely, lovely share.....I believe you are right! All that you experienced is a part of your acceptance journey and recovery. I consider myself a passionate soul and that passion is often released from me as aggression. I tried just about everything to get my A(s) to change - pleading, begging, yelling, threatening, silent treatment, and more and then I found recovery.
I had to just bit my tongue for a long while as it had been my best weapon for many years. I could slice and dice another up faster than they could 'spit' and felt justified in doing so. Patience and tolerance for me were not natural - they are practiced and learned behaviors. Slowly, my anger, rage, sadness and self-righteousness began to dissipate and I practiced responding instead of reacting. It was progress and there were mistakes yet each time I was able to respond in a kind, gentle or even neutral manner, I felt way better than any exchange before.
This truly opened the door for me to see that detachment is not about ignoring. Rather it is about embracing reality and accepting. It took me a while to find the compassion yet when I did, it also felt 'peaceful in my heart'. I truly, truly love my A(s) even though I hate this disease in them. Yet I know from my own personal experience that if they could see the light clearly, and free themselves from the bondage of the disease, they would. Drinking and drugging for an alcoholic/addict is as natural as scratching your nose or biting a fingernail to another. It's a habit that has become a dependency and no human power can or will relieve someone from it.
Bill W., one of the founding fathers of AA wrote about FEAR in a Grapevine Article way back in 1962. I read this a couple times a year as I am always so intrigued that I, a middle-aged woman can relate to the writings of a middle-aged man's feelings from 55 years ago! If interested, you can read it here - it's long (he's a wordy guy!!) - http://www.silkworth.net/grapevine/matter_fear.html
Good on you for realizing 'something has changed, and that change is you'!!! You're doing awesome!
Aloha DellaElle and thanks for that teaching, sponsor quality share. It is much right on and has many old timers who raised me in Al-Anon wrapped up in it. I reviewed on of the favorite tool lessons I use often still...the walking away from the problem/issue and the turning around to it from afar so that I could see the whole problem and not just the "right in front of my nose", the "I am too close to recognize what I am messing with".
What you share is program work and program skills...so great to read it from another Al-Anon sister.
I came here to read specifically to get wisdom regarding how I am to handle an old problem with a neighbor which has gone on for over 20 years and of which I have just taken to a lawyer.
I have needed the extended time and other side issues to be able to see more clearly and become rightfully determined. We'll see how it progresses.
Again Mahalo (Thanks) for your ESH. (((((HUGS)))))
IAmHere - thank you so much. That really helped. I want to print out what you wrote and read it like it's a Hope For Today entry, lol. This statement you made "This truly opened the door for me to see that detachment is not about ignoring. Rather it is about embracing reality and accepting." just hit me right in the heart.
I just realized that what I've been doing is ignoring her, for a couple of years now, and I've mistaken that for detachment. Just in and out, spend time with the kids, goodbye, see ya. I set a boundary about 4 years ago, after I moved out from living with her, that I just couldn't help anymore. Well, I went the polar opposite and stayed far away, except spending time with the kids, especially over this last year. It's been like you said - I've bit my tongue so hard that it's raw.
But ignoring doesn't feel any better than enabling and rescuing now. I've just been stuck here, spinning my wheels.
And this: "Yet I know from my own personal experience that if they could see the light clearly, and free themselves from the bondage of the disease, they would."
I'm in AA, too, and I get on a self-righteous kick of "If I can do it, why can't YOU??" I don't say that, but I sure feel it, which spins the crazy. I don't know why today, but what you said rang clearly. It took me a long time to see the light. As in, it took me 12 years just to work Step One, lol. It's just been hard to let go enough to say "She just can't see it right now", so it helped to hear what you said.
And thank you Jerry :) I love what you said about walking away, turning around to it from afar so you can see the whole problem. That's a helpful visual. And very much good luck with your neighbor.
ETA: Thank you for the link to "The Matter of Fear"!
-- Edited by DellaElle on Monday 25th of September 2017 11:13:51 PM
amen! and i looove your butterfly line!
that was a beautiful moment - a reprieve, a moment of grace - you describe with your sister.
i feel like i'm beginning to begin to see progress in myself, too. my ex has been in AA on and off for years and has recently started attending al-anon. we are in the same area. and i'm glad for him, happy that he's pursuing recovery in various ways, including this program that has been "my territory" for the past few years of our relationship. he belongs there as well. i'm keeping it simple....
every day, every week is a new improv. what can i do or say that takes my interests in to account, feels authentic and self-focused but is also as kind as possible?
one day at a time. hugs.
Della - both of my sons have been in/out of recovery. So, they know enough about AA to talk it and where to go should they want a different life. As of this moment, on Tuesday, at 8:04am CST, I can report that they are both in active recovery. My oldest bottomed out again last week, and actually did what the program suggests - he reached out and asked for help. He's absolutely crazily insane at the moment as he's trying to get sober, be a father, do his job, and attend his last year of college. He finds out today if his job intends to rescind their offer of a permanent position when he finishes school in May. It has taken an army of fellowship to keep me grounded in my own hula hoop and reasonably sane as he's stuck in the clean up/detox mode.
I bring this up solely because it was my boys, in some state of disease/recovery, who pointed out to me that I treated them differently than I treated others who relapsed in AA. They called me out on the carpet and it stopped me in my tracks. They were right! When a fellow member would share in a meeting, I had compassion, hugs and support for them. When my sons relapsed, I was angry and disappointed first, with sadness and fear as a chaser. It was humbling to become aware that I was practicing these principles in my affairs in a way that catered to my self-will and ego...I had to go back and work the steps just for my sons....with the hope that I could stop expecting more from them and me - the disease does not discriminate so why on Earth was I?
We live, we practice, we learn. We slip, we side-step, we fall down - yet...I feel so blessed that when I keep an open, humble mind, I can continue to learn and grow and change. Back to my brain and thinking - it still wants to react so often when crisis is around....with this program, I just accept that my first impulse is most likely not a healthy one, and work with others to consider the best step forward. I need every tool and resource available because left to my own devices (brain/emotions/baggage/etc.) I can quickly add to the problem instead of being part of the solution.
Great thread and yes - detaching is a lovely gift. My sponsor suggested that when I feel that feeling of 'my temperature is rising' I do pause, walk away, take a break, etc. In that moment, I am to ask myself, Can I be of service? or How can I be of service? Sometimes, the answer that is returned is to walk away and other times, the answer is to ask that very question, "How can I be of service?" This simple question helps me keep my program in mind vs. "How can I help?" which triggers for me more controlling thoughts. Crazy at times but true - words can kick start some obsessive thinking for me...
Make it a great day all - keep working it - it works so well!!
I used to talk about AA all the time, too, with her - what I was learning, what was changing, etc. It took me awhile to realize that was hurting both of us. I was becoming the face of AA, and with our relationship and my personal filter, it would always come off as promotion or "I'm better than you", whether that was my intention or not. It's very different to hear a room full of AA's, versus a family member's take. General program vs. personal program. Does that even make sense?
I looove how you found a way to side-step the thoughts that "How can I help?" triggers with "How can I be of service?". Honestly, I'm not at the stage where I can say "Service", because it feels like I'm saying "How can I be your servant?" I know it's warped thinking - it's just where I'm at today. But I can definitely see where that would help keep things maybe in balance. I was just asking that question of myself: How do I walk that thin line of needing to consider others, to think of others, without diving in overboard and leaving myself completely out of the equation. Because yes, my concept of "Help" is pretty warped, in that it means "How can I fix this for you?" This is all a dive into seeing what all the shades of grey are, versus that black and white thinking.
Staying in the hula hoop on Tuesday at 2:45pm MST. I love that you said that - brings that whole one day at a time thing down to the ground.
Junenine, I love that "Every day is an improv"! I'm writing it down, because YES, that's exactly it.
I would say that's some pretty huge progress, to see him, lol, on "your turf" (I would feel that way), and feel happy that he's finding his way in this world. Thank you for sharing that. That gives me a lot of hope about the possibilities in recovery.
(((DellaElle))) thanks for your post... yes, in my situation it all seems very simple and very complex at the same time. we've been apart 4 months. we were (are?) very close, but his extended relapse did serious damage. he wants reunion and i don't... but i still love and don't hate him, despite deeply hurt feelings. i don't know. sometimes i think i have more empathy than i should, but most of the time i feel good about it.
one more thing, though... as you're talking about your sister. i have a sister. we have very similar values/moral compass, but very different temperaments. very opposite personalities in many ways. so we push each other's buttons. i think sibling relationships can be SO loaded - you go all the way back with each other - i think sometimes it makes it harder to detach. with love, especially.
right now my father is terminally ill. my sister's anxiety is so high that it affects others around her (myself included, of course). i've been more able to detach with love than i have in a long time, because i know she's freaked out about my father and protective and highly emotional - all understandable. it's a nice change. to stand back and say yes, i know you're freaked out, it's ok, the situation is highly stressful. we're all human.
i'm also managing better self care than i ever have during a crisis. which i attribute largely to the impact of this program.
keep coming back. it works on you. all the best.