My first post on this forum but I'm not new to AA or Alanon.
My partner's alcoholism first showed its thirsty little face about ten years ago, when we both decided to get off the drink and get healthy. I could, she couldn't. Since then it has been a rollercoaster of sobriety and not. During that time I've learned so much, no to judge, nor search, nor argue, nor lie for, nor cover up for, nor threaten...all the things I should be doing as a partner of an alcoholic. I've gone to AA meetings with her to celebrate milestones, and changed my own drinking habits and curbed my love of craft beer, tried to make her sobriety a really positive experience. Her friends in AA often remind her how lucky she is to have someone as patient, caring and understanding as myself (aw shucks!).
But after another relapse, I'm asking myself - when is enough enough?
When do I allow the thoughts of a better life 'elsewhere' to creep in. Should I be actively seeking happiness away from this bubble of alcohol? When do I accept that the last grain of patience has slipped through the hourglass?
She's not a bad drunk - she's just not part of our team when she is drinking. Sleepy, mumbly and childish. And it makes me feel like a solo parent.
So how would being separated be any different? I know it would affect my teenage son infinitely, but we have a really good relationship - the best friends in fact and he'd resent me for leaving.
So when do I become selfish and look after me a little more? How do I seek out affection, connection and intimacy? All the things I had before alcohol squeezed its cunning little head into my relationship.
I've never walk away from anything. And I don't think I will now - but there's definitely a feeling that there should be more to life than 'accepting' that this one is a little...incomplete.
Keen to hear your thoughts - I think I already know what response I'll get.
Stay strong guys (me too).
- Witch.
MizzB said
Sep 15, 2017
I'm really interested to hear the responses to this. I'm in the same position (except the children) and I keep thinking what is going to make me make that final move. I"m already making preparations as my ABF is not nice when he's drinking and he's not so much has relapses as not been able to quit for more than a few days (except one period in Jan where he was clean for 4 months). I need a break. i'm telling my mum and his mum - and him that it's all too much for me and I'm trying to think about me more. I just don't know what point is when I tell him to go. I'm early in this disease - It's only 18 months with this guy but alreay I know I don't want to do it long term.
So I'll be watching this thread carefully. Thank you for bringing it up. I hope you find answers x
Jazzie18 said
Sep 15, 2017
Unfortunately I don't think anyone can tell you when and what the next move will be but your HP. I was at that point a few years ago and was ready to leave my AH. I was torn as we have small kids but at that point his alcoholism was so bad that I was pretty much a single parent any ways. Also, I knew that the environment was not good for kids, I should know since I also grew up in the disease. I didn't leave because he finally found sobriety but there is no doubt in my mind that if he hadn't I would have left two years ago. What helped me most was praying daily to my HP to show me the way.
Thoughts and prayers to you Witch and MizzB.
jessiefred86 said
Sep 15, 2017
I reached out to this site at a time of need, and this is the first post I saw. It was exactly what I needed to see as my ABF drove away from my house because I finally had "enough," and told him he had to leave today.
It's been a rollercoaster year... I met my friend and we connected, we were both lonely and going through a divorce. I had no clue that he was an alcoholic, nor did I know the depth of the severity of his disease. I grew to care deeply about him, so even as the truth came out, I stood by him, and he said I was the only friend he had left since the rest of his family and friends had already had "enough" of his destructive drinking. He had sucked all of them dry, emotionally and financially, and he moved on to me. In the last year I've seen him through outpatient care, losing two different jobs before entering a 28 day impatient treatment. He went from there to an Oxford House where he relapsed after two weeks, eventually getting kicked out. His parents helped him get an apartment because he had a promising job offer but because of his drinking he lost the job and got evicted from his apartment. He said he would be homeless if he couldn't stay with me, and while I wanted so badly to help him, I told him he couldn't stay with me unless he got better; I have a small daughter and I didn't want to bring alcoholism into her life. He came anyway and has been staying here for two weeks claiming that he couldn't find an open bed for detox/rehab. I finally had to ask him to leave today as I couldn't take the drunken episodes and his belittling and disrespect. He caused a scene and tried his hardest to make me feel small and guilty (his efforts were successful).
I'm so overwhelmed with sadness because when he isn't drinking, he is one one of the best people I've met, and I connect with him and relate to his feelings of depression. As much as I needed him to go, it saddens me to think that I'll never see or hear from him again. I know that it is best for him (if he has nowhere to go and hits bottom, rehab and recovery will be his only option besides death) and best for me and my daughter. But I don't know how to cope with the emptiness I'll feel without him along with the guilt I feel for "giving up" on him.
MizzB said
Sep 15, 2017
HI Jessica, you've been really strong and done a really good thing for your daughter - and as you say, you've made the best decision for him. It's now down to him to deal with the consequences of his disease. You didn't give up on him, you made YOU and your daughter the priority and you shouldn't feel guilt for that. He is an adult who makes his own decisions and who has to face his own consequences. Keep coming back here. There are always friends here x
Iamhere said
Sep 15, 2017
This is where recovery allows each of us our own personal journey. For the newer members, I met and married my AH in AA....We have 2 boys, 25 and 23 now. He relapsed between their births after 7+/- years of sobriety and never returned to recovery. I've stayed sober and it's been a 'long, strange trip'.
I can give you thousands of reasons why I stayed. I can give you the same number of why I should have left. Ultimately, I am still in my marriage and have survived this disease in not just him but also both of my sons. We have a lovely member here, Jerry who says often that he was born and raised into this disease and that's true for me as well. I'm 4th generation that we can track making my sons 5th generation. So, so sad but so, so true.
I never felt a burning 'need' to stay. At the same time, I never felt a burning 'need' to depart either. Each day, upon awakening, I do what's been told to me - work this program, focus on me and see what is revealed. At the end of each day, I do what's been suggested - be grateful I survived/thrived/lived, and take inventory for me/my growth.
For me, each and every time I thought I was ready to take action, life happened. Deaths, heart attacks, surgeries, treatment, jail, etc...in reality I felt these were signs I needed to stay put. What I do know is that I have joy and peace and serenity in my life and it has nothing to do with what others are/are not doing. It's about me, the real me....the me that knows my higher power wants me to be happy, joyous and free. The real me that knows I was a huge quitter for years and years and have tried to manage life in a mature way now.
My life is far from perfect. My relationships are hard but still fulfilling and promising. I am not stuck, sad, wanting for more or envious of other relationships. I had to stop wanting the fairy-tale that others showed me and make my life the best it can be within my small span of control. I am lucky that even when it was absolutely horrible, I was able to advocate for me. I was crazy as could be, but not afraid to call the police if I needed help. Again, it's been a long, strange trip yet I would not change it as I have learned tons and continue to do so.
I readily admit - if I were not married with children, I would have taken off faster than you could blink when my AH relapsed. Being in recovery makes it confusing to be around relapsing people, and I was on less firm ground. I am still a work in progress and will be until I'm 6 feet under.
The blessings of this program is there is no wrong answer. We each get to do our journey as we see fit without judgement, criticism or advice. I do know I have a 'personal pain' thermometer - when the bad outweighs the good, it's time for a change....I measure this in years... It's very subjective and only I get to determine what's good/bad. Amazing that the longer I focus on my recovery, the better even the past appears as it's made me who I am today.
Welcome to new members - not sure this helps but hope is always alive and well with recovery. Keep coming back - you're not alone!!
Witchfinder said
Sep 15, 2017
Thanks for sharing guys.
After another week of relapse, she got back in touch with her sponsor and other AA members to ask them all for support.
There's a glimmer of hope.
Today is not the 'enough' day.
x
Jerry F said
Sep 15, 2017
Quizzical Name Mr. Aukland person and I relate to it cause otherwise the change of one letter, the W it could be related to my Alcoholic/addict wife and I and what is most telling was what I learned about yours truly Jerry F. When I arrived at Al-Anon I didn't know anything about alcoholism...what it meant and how to spell it. I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know and yet one of the many things I found out about me was that I was born and raised with in it and so alcoholism fir me is natural...normal life. "Drunk" was more descriptive and then in my families of origin you didn't use that disrespectful title or a war would arise.
I am also dual program having arrived at the doors of Al-Anon First and then 9 years without a drink...AA. It took me 9 years to do my own assessment and then along the way I learned tons thru the inventory steps, the "search and fearless" look which I did first about my alcoholic(s) and then about myself. I duplicated and didn't even know what that meant regarding my relationships...they were all addicted to one compulsion or the other and so was I. It was easy to look outside of myself because I thought "they" were more dramatic yet if you asked the group of us often times the finger pointed at Jerry F not only from the family and friends but also from the neighborhood and the employers and more.
I swore I would get rid of them and find better and couldn't answer clearly the question, "How are you going to do that"? In fact I never ask that question. Just because it was me I would get something different...better and that was/is the nature of my part in the disease. I didn't know me...who I was or what I was and until I could learn that I was doomed. I had several suicide attempts including a toxic shock near death drunk. I wasn't an educated manager...I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know. I am a firm believer in getting to know you before you find someone else to affect with your disease. The early definition of alcoholism Al-Anon style speaks to how we affect others just as the alcoholic does or worse because we do not have the anesthesia of alcohol to block out reality and so we have it worse.
Going to find someone new? What are you going to bring to the relationship and then is the new person going to appreciate it?.
In support. ((((hugs))))
Junenine said
Sep 15, 2017
Witchfinder, I feel for you being in this place in your relationship. You ask the million dollar question.
I asked myself the same for a long time. So much back and forth, so much inner conflict, so much confusion, hope, doubt, waiting.
I was told "you'll know when you know" and so I'll say the same to you. It's not the simple and satisfying answer we all crave, but it's true.
I was not raised in the disease, though I was raised a caretaker. I've managed to distance from that role during different periods of my life. It came roaring back to life when I found myself engaged to an alcoholic/addict (sober when we met).
For me, I feel I was pushed until I couldn't go any further. And my partner did not have a pattern of cruelty with me. But he did fall down the rabbit hole of his addiction and accompanying unhealthy behavior, and for a long time was unable to get honest and unable to dig himself out. Instead of looking at himself, he obsessed about me and my potential for leaving him, tho I was entirely committed. I supported him and enabled him with my support and couldn't figure out how not to do so because I loved him, plus he had no resources apart from me. I was terrified.
When he repeatedly acted in ways that I found unacceptable and really unbearable, I found my "enough." I actually felt like I had no choice at that point, but really, we always have choices, don't we?
I had seen him through 3 earlier attempts at recovery. This time - although our split was sheer HELL for both of us (and the lowest bottom either of us have had) - he's doing much better now. And I'm recovering, still figuring out what that means. We are on the other side of "enough", still communicating, and I'm doing my best to be supportive and loving as a friend, from more of a distance, with more awareness of my own needs and my own protection.
Wishing you strength and clarity. Keep coming back, this is a lovely group of people.
Mattie said
Sep 16, 2017
For me, the time came when I realized he was not going to get and stay sober. There were all kinds of false starts. I kept thinking we had turned the corner. The corner never did get really turned. I knew I was not going to be happy living with the chaos of an active alcoholic. So for me when it finally came home to me that the relapses were going to keep on happening (and turn to full-time drinking), I saw the light. Other people have different bottom lines.
Flyfree said
Sep 16, 2017
Welcome Witchfinder. Sending you positive thoughts and prayers. I am fairly new the Al Anon but one phrase for me is Nothing changes if nothing changes. I have accepted unacceptable behaviour for a long time. Cruel hurtful comments, badgering for money, told no one else would put up with me, etc. All of that abuse to keep me from leaving my AH and for him to control me. I finally got to a point that the pain of change is less than the pain of continuing. I still talk to him and we are still married. I am the only one working. I moved out of the house almost a month ago and he has not packed his things, tried to work things out with me, he didn't go to rehab even though he had a bed, he can't get a job because he isn't sober/clean long enough to pass a drug test. I don't know or care where he gets money from. He certainly doesn't give me any to help pay the bills. He will be homeless by the end of the month. This disease is so cunning. He has fooled himself into believing an alternate reality. Not me. I see what is real today and I may still be sick but I am taking the necessary steps to get well for me just for today. I am a work in progress. I still have insane reactions/anxiety attaches from time to time but I am getting better. This program helps so much. The ESH I have found here is priceless. Keep coming back. Take what you like and leave the rest.
mamalioness said
Sep 16, 2017
Hi Jessica...I agree with MizzB...YOU didn't give up on HIM....HE gave up by not wanting to be better....You had your child...child should always come first as she is helpless..dependent on mom to do the right thing by her...Good on you for making that right choice...I applaud you for caring for your child..I wasn't so lucky....This boyfriend used the "guilt" trip on you and oh yea, they are good at making US feel guilty for doing the right thing by US.....and I also agree that you did the right thing by him...Now, hopefully, he will hit bottom and reach out for help and he needs a clinic/rehab atmosphere for that.....keep coming back....Thank you for putting your child first..i can't say that enough...
mamalioness said
Sep 16, 2017
Witchfinder, you will know when you are quiet within yourself, in the present, not angry about her past episodes or fearing whats down the road, but in the present with you and your inner higher power....When that time comes, it will come and you will know its time to get off the merry go round or roller coaster and be DONE.....you are not ready as yet and thats OK...lessons sometimes, albeit painful, have to "play themselves" out and be learned b4 we can move on to the next, hopefully, better situations.....I've been in your shoes with the 2nd AH..it was easy to leave the first, but not so with the 2nd because he was a sweetheart, just an alcoholic, active, and slowly killing himself..he didn't want AA...so i made the tough choice to make him leave so I could get the Al-anon help that I needed and fix the damage that this disease has done to me.....dunno where this disease came from, grandparents were sober as I recall.....but mother was the raging drunk....sire was into porno and depravities on young girls....how the hell these two were spawned is beyond me...I , doing step 4, researched their families and nobody seemed to have their kind of evil, so ya just dont' know but they were a bad mix because , tho both were selfish and into self gratification at the expense of anyone else, they were bad for each other as well...her drinking out of control raging bouts, being peeing in her bed drunk for days on end...him out hunting for prey, well, all i can say is that be it 1st generation or 5th generation, it is hell to live with and without serious inpatient and AA help, they will get worse into the disease...alcoholism is progressive, like a cancer, if not arrested and put into remission by sobriety and that only happens if they 10000% surrender up to the program and ALL its suggestions, meetings, steps, sponsor work, slogans, ABSTINENCE, and all the community (AA members) support they can get, then the disease is only in remission.....I wish you well...please work on you in Al-anon....detach and save yourself, here in the Al-anon environment....you can only change/fix/help/restore yourself.....I wold just let her to her own devices, be supportive and positive when she is seeking help, but keep the focus on you and your recovery........IN SUPPORT
Sweetiemom said
Sep 17, 2017
My AH has been sober for 30 months and been working the program for about 2 years. I'm a newcomer to the program, but have found Hope in this forum. I'm very rural and getting to a physical meeting is close to Impossible. Two young kids, and of course husband that's just now got his permit back yesterday driving 40 minutes to get to a meeting just doesn't work for me. So when I come on here and read post I am always surprised that I am not alone. I don't even have an active alcoholic in the house, and I asked myself this question all the time. I feel selfish thinking that I deserve better than a life that revolves around alcohol even though I'll never drink it again. I never had a problem drinking so now I get to decide if that's what I want for my life and it feels selfish. I just don't know when enough is enough, after 16 years of marriage 10 of them with an active alcoholic do I really want to spend the rest of my life thinking worrying fearing or by alternative just living day today. I don't want to be recovering for the rest of my life although he will have to be. And every time I start thinking like this I feel guilty because he's doing the best he can, but living completely outside of the circle is just as bad for me as living completely inside the circle gosh I hope that makes sense to you guys. I want to be fully supportive so I won't go to a bonfire because they'll be alcohol there I won't go to the races because there's alcohol there there's alcohol everywhere in rural setting and you don't find that out until you're with someone who's in recovery it just closes off so many doors it feels like and not all of those doors are bad or revolve around drinking it's just that that sometimes its a part and I feel like a bad wife if I want to do that stuff because he can't. I just want happiness for myself and being a people-pleaser have never really worried about that before because if I can make the people around me happy I've always been happy . To learn that their happiness depends nothing on me is a hard ticket to take especially when you've devoted your life to making your parents teachers siblings husband and kids and random people in the supermarket line happy. I've just always thought that if more people were happy more people would be happy like it's kind of contagious but I'm not happy . So how do I catch the bug? I tend to ramble I hope you guys don't mind anyway that's just my thought threat this morning hope everyone has a great Sunday smiles and hugs
Iamhere said
Sep 17, 2017
Sweetiemom - sorry that you're out in the boonies and struggle for time to attend meetings. Keep coming back and share anytime you want/need to!
There are also meetings here (online) twice a day. The schedule and link to the meeting room is up to the top, left had side. They were a gift for me at a time I struggled to get out to face to face meetings.
Back @ ya for a lovely Sunday!!
mamalioness said
Sep 17, 2017
hey Sweetiemom...hang in there, lady, we dont' have good meets near me either and you would THINK the Dallas area would be loaded with them.....anyway, the nearest one I found is a bad drive down a freeway that seems to have shootings lately....so online has worked great for me, hope it does for you too...and yea, i read your post and SOOOO relate....When is it selfish to take care of ourselves and to pursue our rights to happiness, freedom and love?? Didn't our forefathers fight for that in the Amer. Revolution???? I'm 1st. gen. American on sire's side (RU and E/EU) but my mothers Irish folks fought in that war, they left IRE and came here and fought to be free...to be able to pursue life, love, liberty, happiness.....so WHEN did it become selfish or guilt drawn to want that now??? WHERE does it say , anywhere, that it is selfish to preserve self and to nurture self and to get OUR needs met in any legal and moral way we can????? I was made to feel that way too...that my needs didn't count...that I didn't exist but to take care of and please others very immoral desires and needs.....now??? with program, I don't feel that way....I "do life" to suit and care for and to aide in MY growth....I seek to live life iwth more ease...more prosperity...more peace, love and JOY!!! that is MINE by divine /universal right and I feel GOOD about pursuing that as long as I do not harm another creature, I am good with me!!!!! Please keep coming back and see the miracles this program will work within you for you....................IN SUPPORT
Bethany66 said
Sep 18, 2017
This topic really hit home for me today. I am working through this process right now. I hear a voice inside that says "when the pain of staying is worse than the pain of leaving, I will go". As the disease progresses in my AH, I feel the pain in staying is growing with each binge and each crisis. But these are not decisions to be taken lightly, and yet, I tend to overthink everything these days. I have to trust in my HP's care for me.
mamalioness said
Sep 18, 2017
Hey Bethany: GOOD thinking: Trusting in your own HP...I have learned that when I am in the present...not the past--not the future, but RIGHT NOW, quiet, open, willing, I can actually feel a connection to my inner HP...I don't do ANYTHING serious w/out meditating on it first.....take care
SerenityRUS said
Sep 18, 2017
I agree with what Bethany shared .. you know when you know and all of the analyzing in the world isn't going to change the timeline of that fact. Unless something changes .. nothing changes.
Hugs S :)
WestMan said
Sep 19, 2017
Bethany66 wrote:
... I hear a voice inside that says "when the pain of staying is worse than the pain of leaving, I will go"...I have to trust in my HP's care for me.
I'm in the same boat as well and these lines jumped out at me. The pain of staying is easily greater than leaving. Whatever my HP is I think I have my answer.
Trusting in my HP is more difficult.
jessiefred86 said
Sep 22, 2017
I don't have a "higher power." I wouldn't call myself an atheist, maybe closer to an agnostic. The closest thing that I have to an HP is my daughter and her well-being and my responsibility to give her a great life.
What I struggle with is my innate calling to do everything that I can to help those in need. I don't feel that way because my "religion" or HP dictates that I should... it's just a calling that I feel.
So when I'm sitting here on Day 5 of 28 of A being in rehab, I tell myself that my daughter and I are better off without A in our lives. But then I think about the fact that he has no one left and I struggle with what to do.
Advice appreciated, but honestly just thankful for a place to vent and sort through my thoughts. Thank you.
Iamhere said
Sep 22, 2017
Jessica - welcome to MIP! Glad that you found us and glad that you joined right in. Alcoholism is a progressive disease, for which there is no cure. It can be treated through abstinence and recovery, one program of recovery is AA. Alcoholism is considered a family disease as most who live with or love an alcoholic are affected. Al-Anon is a recovery program for friends and family, and it's open to those affected whether the alcoholic is in recovery or not.
Both programs are considered spiritual vs. religious. Members are encouraged to find a God of their understanding. There are many agnostics and atheists in recovery and their concept of a higher power is perfect and personal. I've heard folks using the group as a HP, nature, Literature, as well as the phrase -- Good Orderly Direction.
The gift of recovery allows each of us our own personal journey to a different way of reacting to the disease and the diseased. The tools are suggested to aid recovery, and the steps are for the same purpose. My best suggestion (we don't give direct advice) is to attend a few F2F (Face to Face) meetings and see if Al-Anon is or you. It helped me realize I was not alone and others were also affected by this disease. It also gave me local support to lean on when things get tough.
Hope you keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery. You are not alone...
KT2015 said
Sep 22, 2017
Hi Witchfinder
I can relate to your post too. In my situation my AH and I went to counselling and the therapist asked him if he was hearing that his drinking was a problem for me. He said yes. Then she asked him if he was willing to do something about it. He said yes. Then she told him it was his responsibility to address it and he said he would. At least that's what I heard. What he heard was that he had to change his behaviour when he was drinking not to be so obnoxious, frustrated and hostile towards me as that was the "REAL" problem. To be fair he has changed that. He isn't difficult to be around when he's drunk but he's not there. He's not present as a partner or a parent when he's drinking. He doesn't drink every day and seem to try to delay his drinking until our daughter is in bed. I think he thinks he's managing it. I have to leave his management of it up to him. I used to adjust myself to "help" him out by never having a drink myself when I was around him, by keeping other things to drink in the fridge, by encouraging him to come to the gym with me in the evenings (that actually resulted in him coming to the gym with a full bottle of wine in him and him injuring himself). Now I don't do that stuff. Not because I don't care but because I am doing it for the wrong reasons. I'm trying to make him change his behaviour and in essence even though they are nice things I am trying to control his drinking on some level. In step one I decided to live and let live. I need to live my life for me as it actually is right now. If he's drinking or not drinking shouldn't matter the question is....am I happy? I don't know if I would say I am completely there yet but I've changed a lot of things in my life. I've accepted that sometimes he's able to participate in our marriage and sometimes he's not and when he's not I have a plan B. I always try to have a plan B in my pocket. I've developed a life outside of my marriage that is very full. Friends to go to gym with, vacations without him (going places he doesn't want to go), plans with other family members and friends that he can join or not join for activities together. I will admit that it can get lonely at times. But I'm happier that way rather than what I had been doing. I too believe that my HP will help me come to a conclusion about this and I also worry about my daughter but I try to hand that over too. I will know when I know. In the meantime I am enjoying what I can with him when I can and taking better and better care of myself. I can relate to how difficult this decision is. You are not alone.
Maresie25 said
Sep 22, 2017
I have been thinking about the commitment issue for a long time. I was way over the line with the ex A. He certainly did not reciprocate on any level at any time.
I tend to be a person who gives before they think.
I also tend to be loyal to the wrong people.
Lately I have set a lot of distance from the people I know who are alcoholics. I am letting them rely on their own devices. I am not sure my 'kindness" did much anyways just hold up the
inevitable.
The giving mechanism is the automatic one for me. Sitting on my laurels feels alien to me.
I tend to leave anything, be it jobs, living situations, relationships only when it gets pretty awful. I give till there is nothing left to give.
jessiefred86 said
Sep 24, 2017
Lamhere and KT2015,
I just wanted to say thank you to both of you for your posts. They really hit home with me and spoke to me. It is so very comforting to know I'm not alone in what sometimes feels like a very lonely place. When I read your words I felt like I could have been writing them myself. Just knowing you're not alone in a situation can be better than any advice. I loved the phrase Good Orderly Dorection when referring to a Higher Power. Wow... I've been struggling with the HP thing and that description of what HP could mean for me as an agnostic was just spot on...
So thank you!!
DellaElle said
Sep 25, 2017
Maresie, I really relate to what you said, about the giving mechanism being automatic, and how sitting on what I call my hands feels so alien. I feel like I'm flying blind here, because taking care of me first feels so foreign. I mean, I get where it comes from - my role in childhood was to be both the caretaker and the shame-sink, where the adults said "You need to take care of me, and you're doing it all wrong. You never get it right".
It's just that knowing that doesn't make changing feel any less odd.
Thank you too, for saying you give until you have nothing left to give. That's been me, too. I've taken a lot of steps to walk away before it gets to that point, and as I practice, it gets easier. Doesn't mean I don't get ensnared sometimes. A friend of mine said "If you feel an overwhelming urge to help someone, STOP. It's your signal that they are messed up." Lol, it's true. I don't feel that urge to "help" (aka, rescue) as strongly with more healthy people. It's the ones that are like my family that set that tripwire off, even before I'm consciously aware of it.
I'm glad this program is here. I wouldn't even try to do these alien things if I didn't see other people trying to. I still get resentful sometimes, about how my picker tells me who to stay away from, instead of who to gravitate towards. I feel weird around healthier people, too. Not ones in the program - I feel like y'all get me. Just folks that haven't faced alcoholism or toxic relationships. Honestly, I just don't know what to say, not comfortably at least.
Iamhere said
Sep 25, 2017
Hey Jessica - so glad you 'relate'.....I can relate to that as well. I truly felt alone before recovery and felt that nobody else could ever understand the insanity of living with this disease. Then I found Al-Anon and it felt like I found 'my tribe'. They spoke in ways that I could relate to and shared stories that were very similar to mine. I have said before that when I came to Al-Anon the second time with an open mind and looked for the similarities instead of the differences, I breathed deeper in than I had for years....I did not even realize it until I left and got close to home but it was a genuine, real, safe place that I could just breathe.
Keep coming back - it just keeps getting better with recovery.
Della - I had a broken picker for a long, long, long while. I too always lined up with those who were wrecked and needy. I then complained about them behind their backs because 'their neediness wore me out!" It never dawned on me before recovery that I could step away and seek healthier people to line up beside. What a concept. I am reminded of practice, practice, practice. The first time I got a phone call from a healthy new friend, I picked up the phone ready to listen and problem solve. That had been my MO for years. She had called to check on me and tell me to have a great day! I was totally baffled by the whole thing as most folks I knew call when they want/need something. Someone calling just to say hey was really unusual based on how I'd picked my circle of influence...
(((Hugs))) to all - this has been a great thread!!
DellaElle said
Sep 25, 2017
This really *has* been a great thread. All this honesty is awesome. I don't feel all alone in all of this.
Lol, I relate to all you said Iamhere. And YES, when people don't want me to just listen and problem solve, or want/need something, I'm all "Wait, what? What is this foreign language you are speaking?"
Someone wise told me that after awhile in recovery, unhealthy people just didn't interest her anymore. I was all "That can happen??"
It's really encouraging to know it can. Phew, practice, practice, practice.
Jayla said
Sep 27, 2017
For me, what pushed me over the line into finally leaving my AH was him having an affair. Turns out that was my line in the sand. And yet somehow I still feel guilty about enforcing that boundary and not accepting his alcoholic promises of change. (Everything else he ever promised was a lie). I think the guilt comes because we have two young children. But they deserve better than a home full of alcoholic madness, affairs and lies and so do I.
Hey guys,
My first post on this forum but I'm not new to AA or Alanon.
My partner's alcoholism first showed its thirsty little face about ten years ago, when we both decided to get off the drink and get healthy. I could, she couldn't. Since then it has been a rollercoaster of sobriety and not. During that time I've learned so much, no to judge, nor search, nor argue, nor lie for, nor cover up for, nor threaten...all the things I should be doing as a partner of an alcoholic. I've gone to AA meetings with her to celebrate milestones, and changed my own drinking habits and curbed my love of craft beer, tried to make her sobriety a really positive experience. Her friends in AA often remind her how lucky she is to have someone as patient, caring and understanding as myself (aw shucks!).
But after another relapse, I'm asking myself - when is enough enough?
When do I allow the thoughts of a better life 'elsewhere' to creep in. Should I be actively seeking happiness away from this bubble of alcohol? When do I accept that the last grain of patience has slipped through the hourglass?
She's not a bad drunk - she's just not part of our team when she is drinking. Sleepy, mumbly and childish. And it makes me feel like a solo parent.
So how would being separated be any different? I know it would affect my teenage son infinitely, but we have a really good relationship - the best friends in fact and he'd resent me for leaving.
So when do I become selfish and look after me a little more? How do I seek out affection, connection and intimacy? All the things I had before alcohol squeezed its cunning little head into my relationship.
I've never walk away from anything. And I don't think I will now - but there's definitely a feeling that there should be more to life than 'accepting' that this one is a little...incomplete.
Keen to hear your thoughts - I think I already know what response I'll get.
Stay strong guys (me too).
- Witch.
So I'll be watching this thread carefully. Thank you for bringing it up. I hope you find answers x
Thoughts and prayers to you Witch and MizzB.
I can give you thousands of reasons why I stayed. I can give you the same number of why I should have left. Ultimately, I am still in my marriage and have survived this disease in not just him but also both of my sons. We have a lovely member here, Jerry who says often that he was born and raised into this disease and that's true for me as well. I'm 4th generation that we can track making my sons 5th generation. So, so sad but so, so true.
I never felt a burning 'need' to stay. At the same time, I never felt a burning 'need' to depart either. Each day, upon awakening, I do what's been told to me - work this program, focus on me and see what is revealed. At the end of each day, I do what's been suggested - be grateful I survived/thrived/lived, and take inventory for me/my growth.
For me, each and every time I thought I was ready to take action, life happened. Deaths, heart attacks, surgeries, treatment, jail, etc...in reality I felt these were signs I needed to stay put. What I do know is that I have joy and peace and serenity in my life and it has nothing to do with what others are/are not doing. It's about me, the real me....the me that knows my higher power wants me to be happy, joyous and free. The real me that knows I was a huge quitter for years and years and have tried to manage life in a mature way now.
My life is far from perfect. My relationships are hard but still fulfilling and promising. I am not stuck, sad, wanting for more or envious of other relationships. I had to stop wanting the fairy-tale that others showed me and make my life the best it can be within my small span of control. I am lucky that even when it was absolutely horrible, I was able to advocate for me. I was crazy as could be, but not afraid to call the police if I needed help. Again, it's been a long, strange trip yet I would not change it as I have learned tons and continue to do so.
I readily admit - if I were not married with children, I would have taken off faster than you could blink when my AH relapsed. Being in recovery makes it confusing to be around relapsing people, and I was on less firm ground. I am still a work in progress and will be until I'm 6 feet under.
The blessings of this program is there is no wrong answer. We each get to do our journey as we see fit without judgement, criticism or advice. I do know I have a 'personal pain' thermometer - when the bad outweighs the good, it's time for a change....I measure this in years... It's very subjective and only I get to determine what's good/bad. Amazing that the longer I focus on my recovery, the better even the past appears as it's made me who I am today.
Welcome to new members - not sure this helps but hope is always alive and well with recovery. Keep coming back - you're not alone!!
After another week of relapse, she got back in touch with her sponsor and other AA members to ask them all for support.
There's a glimmer of hope.
Today is not the 'enough' day.
x
Quizzical Name Mr. Aukland person and I relate to it cause otherwise the change of one letter, the W it could be related to my Alcoholic/addict wife and I and what is most telling was what I learned about yours truly Jerry F. When I arrived at Al-Anon I didn't know anything about alcoholism...what it meant and how to spell it. I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know and yet one of the many things I found out about me was that I was born and raised with in it and so alcoholism fir me is natural...normal life. "Drunk" was more descriptive and then in my families of origin you didn't use that disrespectful title or a war would arise.
I am also dual program having arrived at the doors of Al-Anon First and then 9 years without a drink...AA. It took me 9 years to do my own assessment and then along the way I learned tons thru the inventory steps, the "search and fearless" look which I did first about my alcoholic(s) and then about myself. I duplicated and didn't even know what that meant regarding my relationships...they were all addicted to one compulsion or the other and so was I. It was easy to look outside of myself because I thought "they" were more dramatic yet if you asked the group of us often times the finger pointed at Jerry F not only from the family and friends but also from the neighborhood and the employers and more.
I swore I would get rid of them and find better and couldn't answer clearly the question, "How are you going to do that"? In fact I never ask that question. Just because it was me I would get something different...better and that was/is the nature of my part in the disease. I didn't know me...who I was or what I was and until I could learn that I was doomed. I had several suicide attempts including a toxic shock near death drunk. I wasn't an educated manager...I didn't know and didn't know that I didn't know. I am a firm believer in getting to know you before you find someone else to affect with your disease. The early definition of alcoholism Al-Anon style speaks to how we affect others just as the alcoholic does or worse because we do not have the anesthesia of alcohol to block out reality and so we have it worse.
Going to find someone new? What are you going to bring to the relationship and then is the new person going to appreciate it?.
In support. ((((hugs))))
Witchfinder, I feel for you being in this place in your relationship. You ask the million dollar question.
I asked myself the same for a long time. So much back and forth, so much inner conflict, so much confusion, hope, doubt, waiting.
I was told "you'll know when you know" and so I'll say the same to you. It's not the simple and satisfying answer we all crave, but it's true.
I was not raised in the disease, though I was raised a caretaker. I've managed to distance from that role during different periods of my life. It came roaring back to life when I found myself engaged to an alcoholic/addict (sober when we met).
For me, I feel I was pushed until I couldn't go any further. And my partner did not have a pattern of cruelty with me. But he did fall down the rabbit hole of his addiction and accompanying unhealthy behavior, and for a long time was unable to get honest and unable to dig himself out. Instead of looking at himself, he obsessed about me and my potential for leaving him, tho I was entirely committed. I supported him and enabled him with my support and couldn't figure out how not to do so because I loved him, plus he had no resources apart from me. I was terrified.
When he repeatedly acted in ways that I found unacceptable and really unbearable, I found my "enough." I actually felt like I had no choice at that point, but really, we always have choices, don't we?
I had seen him through 3 earlier attempts at recovery. This time - although our split was sheer HELL for both of us (and the lowest bottom either of us have had) - he's doing much better now. And I'm recovering, still figuring out what that means. We are on the other side of "enough", still communicating, and I'm doing my best to be supportive and loving as a friend, from more of a distance, with more awareness of my own needs and my own protection.
Wishing you strength and clarity. Keep coming back, this is a lovely group of people.
For me, the time came when I realized he was not going to get and stay sober. There were all kinds of false starts. I kept thinking we had turned the corner. The corner never did get really turned. I knew I was not going to be happy living with the chaos of an active alcoholic. So for me when it finally came home to me that the relapses were going to keep on happening (and turn to full-time drinking), I saw the light. Other people have different bottom lines.
Hi Jessica...I agree with MizzB...YOU didn't give up on HIM....HE gave up by not wanting to be better....You had your child...child should always come first as she is helpless..dependent on mom to do the right thing by her...Good on you for making that right choice...I applaud you for caring for your child..I wasn't so lucky....This boyfriend used the "guilt" trip on you and oh yea, they are good at making US feel guilty for doing the right thing by US.....and I also agree that you did the right thing by him...Now, hopefully, he will hit bottom and reach out for help and he needs a clinic/rehab atmosphere for that.....keep coming back....Thank you for putting your child first..i can't say that enough...
There are also meetings here (online) twice a day. The schedule and link to the meeting room is up to the top, left had side. They were a gift for me at a time I struggled to get out to face to face meetings.
Back @ ya for a lovely Sunday!!
Hey Bethany: GOOD thinking: Trusting in your own HP...I have learned that when I am in the present...not the past--not the future, but RIGHT NOW, quiet, open, willing, I can actually feel a connection to my inner HP...I don't do ANYTHING serious w/out meditating on it first.....take care
Hugs S :)
I'm in the same boat as well and these lines jumped out at me. The pain of staying is easily greater than leaving. Whatever my HP is I think I have my answer.
Trusting in my HP is more difficult.
Both programs are considered spiritual vs. religious. Members are encouraged to find a God of their understanding. There are many agnostics and atheists in recovery and their concept of a higher power is perfect and personal. I've heard folks using the group as a HP, nature, Literature, as well as the phrase -- Good Orderly Direction.
The gift of recovery allows each of us our own personal journey to a different way of reacting to the disease and the diseased. The tools are suggested to aid recovery, and the steps are for the same purpose. My best suggestion (we don't give direct advice) is to attend a few F2F (Face to Face) meetings and see if Al-Anon is or you. It helped me realize I was not alone and others were also affected by this disease. It also gave me local support to lean on when things get tough.
Hope you keep coming back - there is hope and help in recovery. You are not alone...
I can relate to your post too. In my situation my AH and I went to counselling and the therapist asked him if he was hearing that his drinking was a problem for me. He said yes. Then she asked him if he was willing to do something about it. He said yes. Then she told him it was his responsibility to address it and he said he would. At least that's what I heard. What he heard was that he had to change his behaviour when he was drinking not to be so obnoxious, frustrated and hostile towards me as that was the "REAL" problem. To be fair he has changed that. He isn't difficult to be around when he's drunk but he's not there. He's not present as a partner or a parent when he's drinking. He doesn't drink every day and seem to try to delay his drinking until our daughter is in bed. I think he thinks he's managing it. I have to leave his management of it up to him. I used to adjust myself to "help" him out by never having a drink myself when I was around him, by keeping other things to drink in the fridge, by encouraging him to come to the gym with me in the evenings (that actually resulted in him coming to the gym with a full bottle of wine in him and him injuring himself). Now I don't do that stuff. Not because I don't care but because I am doing it for the wrong reasons. I'm trying to make him change his behaviour and in essence even though they are nice things I am trying to control his drinking on some level. In step one I decided to live and let live. I need to live my life for me as it actually is right now. If he's drinking or not drinking shouldn't matter the question is....am I happy? I don't know if I would say I am completely there yet but I've changed a lot of things in my life. I've accepted that sometimes he's able to participate in our marriage and sometimes he's not and when he's not I have a plan B. I always try to have a plan B in my pocket. I've developed a life outside of my marriage that is very full. Friends to go to gym with, vacations without him (going places he doesn't want to go), plans with other family members and friends that he can join or not join for activities together. I will admit that it can get lonely at times. But I'm happier that way rather than what I had been doing. I too believe that my HP will help me come to a conclusion about this and I also worry about my daughter but I try to hand that over too. I will know when I know. In the meantime I am enjoying what I can with him when I can and taking better and better care of myself. I can relate to how difficult this decision is. You are not alone.
I have been thinking about the commitment issue for a long time. I was way over the line with the ex A. He certainly did not reciprocate on any level at any time.
I tend to be a person who gives before they think.
I also tend to be loyal to the wrong people.
Lately I have set a lot of distance from the people I know who are alcoholics. I am letting them rely on their own devices. I am not sure my 'kindness" did much anyways just hold up the
inevitable.
The giving mechanism is the automatic one for me. Sitting on my laurels feels alien to me.
I tend to leave anything, be it jobs, living situations, relationships only when it gets pretty awful. I give till there is nothing left to give.
It's just that knowing that doesn't make changing feel any less odd.
Thank you too, for saying you give until you have nothing left to give. That's been me, too. I've taken a lot of steps to walk away before it gets to that point, and as I practice, it gets easier. Doesn't mean I don't get ensnared sometimes. A friend of mine said "If you feel an overwhelming urge to help someone, STOP. It's your signal that they are messed up." Lol, it's true. I don't feel that urge to "help" (aka, rescue) as strongly with more healthy people. It's the ones that are like my family that set that tripwire off, even before I'm consciously aware of it.
I'm glad this program is here. I wouldn't even try to do these alien things if I didn't see other people trying to. I still get resentful sometimes, about how my picker tells me who to stay away from, instead of who to gravitate towards. I feel weird around healthier people, too. Not ones in the program - I feel like y'all get me. Just folks that haven't faced alcoholism or toxic relationships. Honestly, I just don't know what to say, not comfortably at least.
Keep coming back - it just keeps getting better with recovery.
Della - I had a broken picker for a long, long, long while. I too always lined up with those who were wrecked and needy. I then complained about them behind their backs because 'their neediness wore me out!" It never dawned on me before recovery that I could step away and seek healthier people to line up beside. What a concept. I am reminded of practice, practice, practice. The first time I got a phone call from a healthy new friend, I picked up the phone ready to listen and problem solve. That had been my MO for years. She had called to check on me and tell me to have a great day! I was totally baffled by the whole thing as most folks I knew call when they want/need something. Someone calling just to say hey was really unusual based on how I'd picked my circle of influence...
(((Hugs))) to all - this has been a great thread!!
This really *has* been a great thread. All this honesty is awesome. I don't feel all alone in all of this.
Lol, I relate to all you said Iamhere. And YES, when people don't want me to just listen and problem solve, or want/need something, I'm all "Wait, what? What is this foreign language you are speaking?"
Someone wise told me that after awhile in recovery, unhealthy people just didn't interest her anymore. I was all "That can happen??"
It's really encouraging to know it can. Phew, practice, practice, practice.