el-cee - for me, what you share is what I always called my 'disconnect between my head and my heart'. I readily admit I don't know how others should be, feel, do, act and I accept that I am powerless. Yet, I know in my heart the difference between right and wrong and while I can't impose others to align with that, I can do what I see/know for me...

I needed others to remind me that my job as a parent is to teach and to prepare offspring for adulthood. My job is not to care for or provide for beyond adult age. It is so hard to let go especially when they've been affected by the disease. I had very similar thoughts as you and ultimately decided that I would rather live alone with peace than 'want or need' someone with perpetual chaos/drama out of fear.

I only came to where I did by 'acting as if' my children were not mine! They were children of a power greater than I and I had no right to prohibit their growth. I checked my motives often/always and realized they truly know right from wrong. Each time I impose a boundary or put me first, there is friction. It gets better yet it still happens. I have to consistently remember that they are adults and must realize that actions, decisions, etc. have consequences.

It was really, really hard for me to see booting mine out as loving. Yet, I do know if I did not, nothing would change. They are starting to finally learn that rules exist in all homes and even when you have your own place, you have chores, duties, responsibilities. Adulting is hard-work and I'd rather mine know, understand and learn this while I am still around to be of service. I can say that I finally believe if I were to depart from this world today/tomorrow, they have the skills to survive and thrive if they decide to do so.

I work to fill my time with productive things I enjoy - cooking, baking, sports, service work, volunteering, meetings, fellowship, concerts, etc. It was an adjustment for sure - yet I have more 'to do' than I ever expected simply by changing my focus and considering 'me' important...

Sending you tons of love, hugs and prayers. Using these tools with children is truly tough and scary! Yet, the results are so, so worth it.

Thank you for posting this. You've posed some excellent questions in my mind -- that being the "co-existence" between spirituality, God's will, letting go, taking action, acceptance, and perhaps other elements as well. I too struggled with the acceptance vs. unacceptable behavior piece of the puzzle.

That said, from my experience, and my journey through recovery, I have learned one thing -- ex post factor, there has always been a simple answer. It wasn't always visible or simple before and during, however, after -- the answer, solution, etc., seemed so simple. I was in an unhealthy relationship. Someone who had been in my life for 20 years, as a friend, as a GF, and sometimes we didn't communicate at all. We had been through a lot together. Anyway, during our last involvement, it had gotten unhealthy. She had gotten unhealthy. After so much had gone on, and I was unhappy, I confronted my sponsor with -- acceptance, and not trying to change her, as well as not trying to fix her or her problems, not doing a lot of what I had done in the past...versus...accepting unacceptable behavior. I talked to my sponsor and said -- if I master acceptance, and truly embrace it, and practice it, live it, etc.; then here I am accepting her as she is, and her behavior, which is unacceptable. My sponsor laughed.

While the answer/solution was not yet visible or simple, first, we agreed on the acceptance element. Acceptance...check. Yes, I was clearly and completely in acceptance. That had always been easy for me because during times of struggle, or whatever it was, I always, always, always, immersed myself in acceptance. I was able to format whatever I was struggling with, with acceptance. So, done, done. However, then, the unacceptable part. First, I had to look at me. My role, my part, my contribution. I had to take "her" out of the equation and discussion. Me. Me. Me. Why was I, why did I, what was I, and so forth. Now, I didn't ask those questions with a motivation toward analyzing. No. No way. I could not get caught up in some analytical exercise. I wasn't going to go to therapy for 20 years to discuss all of those questions. However, what it came down to was that she was unhealthy, and then, about me -- I kept going back, to an unhealthy, unavailable (emotionally) person. I kept going back to a place/environment where I was being treated poorly. I was going back to a place where I would end up crying. Where I would end up angry, hurt, frustrated, disappointed, and so forth. So my sponsor and I talked about the real issue...ME. In this mindset, acceptance and unacceptable behavior were two separate and distinct elements. Two independent elements. Having the first DID NOT preclude me from doing something about the second. There was action to take, but it was not me not accepting and trying to change et al. There were options -- although at the moment I did not like them -- that would end the pain, hurt, and so forth.

While you may accept people, places and things, just as they are...that doesn't mean that you have to keep going back to those people, places, and things. It doesn't mean that you can't keep relationships at a certain "distance" or have space and distance. It doesn't mean that you can't have and honor boundaries, which will help you and protect you. It doesn't mean you don't keep detaching, not enabling, not contributing, etc. For me, I had acceptance, but I still had to make healthy decisions. In one case, I did have to eliminate one person/relationship from my life. It was not an easy decision. However, I sought out objectivity, and I did a lot of work around this. Talk to your sponsor, work with your sponsor...and keep doing the work. All the best.

"While you may accept people, places and things, just as they are...that doesn't mean that you have to keep going back to those people, places, and things. It doesn't mean that you can't keep relationships at a certain "distance" or have space and distance. It doesn't mean that you can't have and honor boundaries, which will help you and protect you. It doesn't mean you don't keep detaching, not enabling, not contributing, etc. For me, I had acceptance, but I still had to make healthy decisions. In one case, I did have to eliminate one person/relationship from my life."

This right here completely sums up my thoughts about acceptance .. just because I accept someone is who they show me who they are doesn't mean I have to continue to accept the hurtful behavior. It IS very difficult to cut someone out .. I am working on this because I DO tend to truncate people who I view as extremely negative to my environment. I need to soften that approach and I'm still working on that one. I'm learning to allow them on the fringes and keep my boundaries strong while loving them where they are at .. a LONG distance away.

Thanks for sharing :)

Hi el-cee-You have shared about mind-boggling and gut wrenching topics. Thank you. Being a parent, I want to say that you probably will continue loving and caring for your kids, even if they live elsewhere. There is tough love method-throw them out, and there are other options to try if you wish.

The last time my A drank and drove, this past spring, I said I would not live like this anymore. I gave her a choice-get some serious help or I am out of here. She chose the serious help. She has been sober for about 5 months, and we are both in treatment and do couple counseling with an addiction therapist. For the first time in 12 or so years, there is a chance we will stay together. Am I controlling her? No. I stated what I could and couldn't do, and the ball was in her court. If she changes her help to not getting help, I'm still leaving. My boundaries include no drinking, no hanging out with screwed up drinking people, and continuing help. The rest is up to her. So this is what I would try with my son. Give him the boundaries that I can live with, and if he chooses not to accept my terms, then it is his choice to leave. It gives him a choice of two options.

My heart is with you and whatever you choose, I pray for a good outcome for you, Lyne

Hey, el-cee, I'm so sorry for the situation put before you... I can share that after moving out of my A's apartment 3 months ago and starting to live on my own I still have plenty of opportunities to learn, heal and grow, and in many ways I'm learning even more than before because I do not have nearly as many alcohol related distractions, more time for myself. Now removed from the alcoholic environment, there's more often than not peace near me. So instead of learning with a hammer banging on my head the process is mostly gentler now, for which I'm very grateful. It works when I work it, regardless. (((Hugs)))

Hi El-cee,
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I am not in the same situation but I do live with an active alcoholic who I definitely love and it definitely hurts to see him like that. I know it must be a million times more difficult when it is your child. For me I find that taking care of me is always the right answer. When I am well then I am well enough to be of service to others. It must be very painful to have to ask your son to leave. I can't imagine how painful it was because I know how much you love him. I believe that you will find an answer that works for you. I have no idea what the situation is but maybe there are options you haven't thought of yet. Just because someone moves out of your home doesn't mean they always have to be out of your life. Or maybe it does in this instance....I am not sure. Keep and open mind and take care of yourself. I wish you peace and serenity and I hope you are keeping well during this challenging time.
we are here when you need us.
KT

Hi el-cee. Thank you for posting these questions. I struggle with what to do with unacceptable behavior. My AH thinks I am unreasonable because what I consider unacceptable is actually acceptable to him. I have set boundaries and continuously he tries to cross them. I get upset because he isn't hearing me. Some days are better than others. I moved out 3 weeks ago and AH is about to be homeless unless he comes to stay with me. Maybe I am unreasonable but I set the boundary of no alcohol, drugs,hanging out anymore and he has to get a job help out and work on himself and our relationship. That may be too much for him to handle, I have hopes but what about expectations??? He hasn't even taken any first step I don't think he is ready. For him that is unfortunate because I just can't continue in our relationship if he can't do his part. I see how my reactions to him are so unhealthy and I am working on myself but I am not healthy enough to deal with his addictions right now. Every time I think about him I see the betrayals. I understand why he did what he did his selfishness but that doesn't make it easier to forgive. I don't know if I can get past the infidelities. I deserve a loving faithful committed partner who doesn't sleep around just because I am to fat or to this or that. I know I need more time in the program and work on me. Even today he got mad because I wouldn't let him use my car so he said for me to give him a divorce. The manipulation attempts continue. I know for me I cannot make a major decision right now. I do know though I don't want to be the doormat anymore. Thanks for letting me vent. I am working on making healthy changes for me.

Firstly, sending you lots of peaceful warm vibes. It's not easy to step back when your hearts on the line in the form of independent physical bodies, with their own minds and processes, being our kids. Added in to that is our own knowledge of the world and the disease which should be a source of calm but tends to just add anxiety because it emotionally reinforces powerlessness in my experience. What a huge load at the start line. Then there's a trait I believe is common for us on this side, which is an "either/or" viewpoint. This is where I think we become unstuck. It really is a moment by moment thing. There is no one size fits all response. TBC...battery dying.

You've addressed the fear of being alone. I lived that fear for five years and my world was small. It was not natural and did not make me happy. So I've had to shuffle my cards in a sense, and take a broader seat. I love what I love, mostly my own hard won wisdom, but I have had to accept we're all at different places on the mountain. Additionally, while I serve my own value system, I have had to tweak it from being an imperial one. So now, rather than looking at loved ones as sheep in need of a shepherd, I look at them as being who they are, where they are, and loving them nonetheless. When something comes up, I try to be firm but respectful, always serving the higher ideal not the personalities. My principles are programme based, culture based, women based and never imperial which is a top down model, while I'm a fan of side by side exchange. I guess a spiritual principle needs defining in order to be served. Self care and time out are critical. Sending lots of support your way.

Thank you for the fantastic replys, Im going to give them all some more thought. I made my decision and asked him to move out, Im giving him some time to do this so Im not 'throwing' him out and it feels better. Ive held on to this idea that his growth is stunted when hes with me, im cushioning his mistakes and poor choices which means he doesnt have to reflect much and change in any way. Mums here to pick up the pieces and worry about the consequences. Its got me thinking of love again and how the 'normal' idea of loving my children doesnt apply when alcoholism has effected the family. Of course I wanted to give my son time to mature and develop, save his money, move out get married the whole lovely ideal, of course. However, just like the fantasy I held for so long that my ex would turn into the perfect Father and our family would be like the Waltons, ive got to let go of the fantasy again. My reality doesnt fit in with my conditioning, my family have been deeply effected by alcoholism same as me and so 'normal' cant apply. My son isnt saving his money, hes handing it over to drug dealers, my sons boundaries are shifting and risk taking is increasing the older he gets. My choices seem to be either accept this and allow the crisis to come, but this impacts on me. My responsibilities to my neighbours, my job, my own peace and serenity tell me his lifestyle is no longer compatible with mine. I can see this as boohoo, and I was seeing it that way, poor me ive got to let go of another child or I can see it as the World, my higher power is telling me the time has come and it will all be okay in the end.
I am wondering though if my motives are that if he has to spend his money on housing, bills etc he will no longer be able to afford drugs, so am I trying to change the things I cant and playing God? partly I think but on the other hand I know about enabling, I cant unknow it and so I wont enable his decent any longer. Still full of thoughts swirling and doubts but not sure what bits are my disease and what bits are spiritual, the whole good thought bad thought battle. I do know I feel better since I took action even action that is gentle action. I feel better so this tells me this is my Higher powers will for me and my son. I seem to be constantly reminded how important it is to let go, let go let go.

Hang in there el-cee - sending you tons of positive thoughts and prayers. I will admit when mine were making poor choices, etc. a part of me did wonder if they would have less $$ to spend on poor choices if they had to pay rent/utilities/etc. The answer was yes....and both have learned a ton about how to manage/mismanage their finances. You're doing great - be gentle with you!

Great work el-cee. I too feel better when I've taken the action whatever it is. That's the small voice within I believe that our Betty refers to. For me, its the reassurance I need to keep moving, sometimes inch by inch. Keep on keeping on.