Nothing changes if nothing changes...what does that mean to you?
Bo said
Sep 10, 2017
I am not limiting my thoughts or my questions to that one simple question, but more to the nothing changes if nothing changes. I went to my usual Saturday morning meeting. It is an great meeting, one of the best in the northern part of our state. People travel, bypass meetings much closer to them, in order to come to this meeting. There is incredible experience, wisdom, and perspective, in the room. That said, a young girl, a newcomer, came for her first ever meeting yesterday -- 21 years old, on a path to finish school with a masters degree, multiple certifications, very intelligent, personable, comes from a wonderful family and community, and as a complete side note, she is a very pretty young girl. She told her story about her alcoholic and drug addict boyfriend. In summary -- this is the guy I want to spend the rest of my life with, I am so in love with him, he's so great, and so on. But, he drinks excessively, does drugs, gets verbally abusive, manipulative, lies, cheats, steals, and so on. So, the meeting went the way the meeting went. Excellent meeting. For her too.
After the meeting, I walked outside and some of the seasoned, experienced ladies were talking. Long story short -- they were talking to the young girl. Saying all the right things. I've been in the rooms for a long time, so I get what's appropriate and what's not. Anyway, after the young girl walked away, one lady turned to another and commented -- don't you just want to tell her to cut your losses, leave, and run from this loser. The other lady said yes, others said yes, they chuckled, they laughed. I get it.
How does this relate to nothing changes if nothing changes. Here is someone at the beginning of their journey, at a critical juncture, perhaps. We "talk" here amongst ourselves, some being well into their journey, down the road. OK, let's not deal with the journey aspect vis a vis time as it can be rather esoteric. But, for any of us...nothing changes if nothing changes. Some struggle, day after day, some 5 out of 7 days a week, some 1 out of 7, some once in a while, and so on and so on. Yes, it is our own decision. We decide how we want to live our live. Nothing changes if nothing changes. If there is no change...life will continue the way it is. Our life will not change, if nothing changes.
So, what does this mean to you? How does this -- or does it at all -- factor into your decisions, how you live your life? I find that when I am unwilling to make change, take action, etc. -- I am doing damage control. I am merely waiting for the other shoe to drop -- and then ask for help, advice, guidance, etc., on how to get through something I did not want at all. Something that I don't like -- but if I don't change it will keep happening.
Thoughts, perspective, comments, insight, experience? Thank you in advance.
LinSC said
Sep 10, 2017
For every action there is a re-action.
Basicly to me it means if I live my life half asleep, unaware, in denial, then nothing changes.
If I learn to be aware of who I am and what I want in my life and have the courage to change my situation then I will make a move then things change.
Iamhere said
Sep 10, 2017
What it means to me is what I think another should do is really not working the program. I try really hard to allow others in recovery to be as sick as necessary and/or as well as necessary - yet if I came upon two seasoned experienced members talking as you did, I might search for another meeting...
I believe and practice that each of us shares about us without judging another. I believe and practice gossip is dangerous/detrimental to the group. I believe the newest person and the oldest member in a group are on equal footing and nobody has the right to think they know what another should do.
For me, the nothing changes if nothing changes has nothing to do with external changes. It's about me, what's in my heart, my brain, my soul. It's not about leaving, staying, returning, divorcing, marrying, separating - it's about changing the inner me with a HP so that I can stand tall, proud and on my own no matter who or what is around me.
I work really hard to avoid those who claim to be in recovery and then side-step the most basic of principals that keep us sane and safe. I pray for them while taking the side door out of my meeting. Your post proves to me what we suggest all the time - length of time in the program does not mean healthier recovery.
Jerry F said
Sep 10, 2017
That statement came to me within a home group meeting years ago and remains fresh daily. It was an alert, a warning, finally a truth about self responsibility. I was and am to work this program of recovery daily elsewise if nothing changes...nothing changes. A keep it simple guideline for this, at time, unconscious member who can find himself back at where he was when he first arrived because he was doing the same things over and over again expecting different results...oh that's quite the same idea isn't it.? With all the tools I have been given in Al-Anon it's often insane that I forget where I put them. Love you guys (((((hugs)))))
Bo said
Sep 10, 2017
Thanks...I focus on me. Yes, I agree it is all about me. When dealing with another person...I am responsible for me. I can only change me. Nothing changes IF I DON"T CHANGE.
Sometimes, me changing, making healthy decisions, doing what is best for me, etc. -- that does involve staying, going, leaving and so on. Nothing changes if nothing changes can be and mean a lot of things, in a lot of situations.
Bo said
Sep 10, 2017
The other thing for me -- when I was married, and living with my AW, I focused on me and found recovery. The changes I made -- the realization of nothing changes if nothing changes -- was that I focused on me, I did a lot of work, I mastered acceptance, I learned to detach, not contribute and enable, and I got better. I did NOT want to nor did I learn to ACCEPT that I was stuck in a marriage with an alcoholic. For me, once I got healthy, I was able to realize -- nothing changes if nothing changes took on a new meaning, in a new way, in a new form and fashion...and because I was healthy and made other changes in me, I was then able to make a decision to end my marriage. I realized that nothing was going to change in my marriage, with her, my life, etc. -- so if I wanted to live a happy life, then there was another change I had to make. It was up to me.
Nothing changes if nothing changes was so very powerful for me.
Jerry F said
Sep 10, 2017
Good post Bo. It has me remembering much that I learned during this growth period. I learned I could change in increments sometimes quickly sometime slowly and I found the power to change and do it using program one step at a time. I made changes and inspected the consequences so that I could keep the process that worked and let go of the part that didn't. It was during this process that I learned how to love the alcoholic/addict and what that really meant along with amending my choice processes and what that meant also. Al-Anon is about changing the thing I need to and can. Mahalo (((hugs)))
mamalioness said
Sep 10, 2017
For me, nothing changes if nothing changes comes from within...I cannot change another person, place or thing, but I CAN change me....and daily inventory OR when I am into "stinking thinking" mode, its time to do a brutally honest step 10 and if need be, call a recovery mate and get help sorting it out....I cannot progress if I don't get up the courage to change..the willingness to be brutally honest and the humility to "belly up" and do what I gotta do to overcome...
Looking back at the past...why did I stay with my first husband 5 years?? why didn't i dump him when the mental cruelty first began??? Why did I stay with someone so poisonous for my mental health that was already compromised??? what was my "payoff" for staying??? and there is always a "payoff" for allowing the same misery to stay in my life.....Am I financially fearful to change??? (that was it for me---felt I needed him to help pay the bills---a biggie--financial fear is one of the biggest reasons why folks stay in abusive, hostile, toxic relationships) but there can be other "payoffs" a CoDa need to fix /help the other...low self esteem...Fear of being alone....Fear that changing or moving, I may do WORSE....for me?? it was all Fear based......ALL these things I can change about ME>......getting into program....being totally 1000% honest with me and my HP within me.....being open to new ways to take care of me....being willing to do what I have to do to make my life healthier and better....and sometimes i just have to "kiss" my fears and do it afraid because keep in my heart, I know that if I don't take care of me, no one else is gonna step up and do it for me...AND , asking for help, ANY action towards healthy self care , knowing that I can only change me and i CAN with the program and truly following its steps, slogans, et al and really working it..........
a4l said
Sep 11, 2017
Sometimes, I change up my meetings too. Change.....I think I have to want it so bad that I am ready to accept the truth of that sentence , that nothing changes if nothing changes. Change is scary even good change, the process of it is terrifying. I know this for myself. Everything to do with real change scares me witless. I can move countries, go walkabout, change jobs, the external things....easy....but real change, internal or external with lasting consequences, whether good or bad.....terrifying. So its not just acceptance but love that moves me through fear. I was lucky enough to be loved gently in alanon when I came through its doors and try now to show that back to the new comer. If I can't love I try to pause. That's what nothing changes if nothing changes means to me today.
Bo said
Sep 11, 2017
I got sick and tired of being sick and tired. I just couldn't take the day after day of loving someone who just punches you in the face. I know, I know, look at me, she isn't doing it to me, and so on -- but -- nothing changes if nothing changes. I was giving a never ending supply of one more chance. I kept giving one last chance. And I complained, I changed, I got better, I still complained, and I had valid things to complain about. Nothing changes if nothing changes.
Me, for me -- I simply and gratefully got to the point where I was able to ask myself...is this the way I want to live the rest of my life. In short, the answer was and still is no.
As far as the young girl and the seasoned people...as I said...I get it. I sometimes put myself in the place of, if it were my daughter. I think sometimes, if you are human, you feel that way. I don't think there is a right or wrong, and I don't judge people for feeling that way or any other way. I've seen many -- who debated, in their own head, and out loud, but with themselves -- should I leave now before fill in the blank, should I get out now without fill in the blank, and so on. I think it's normal. I think it's human. It's easier for the mind to work that way as a thought process -- without kids, without pets, without being more emotionally vested and invested, before getting married, before, without, sooner, and so on. Doesn't matter. To each their own. I often listen to some of these newcomers, and I see so many who are traveling the same road. It's human to feel, to have compassion, to have been where they are or are going and to want to give back...lead a horse to water. LOL.
Thanks for the posts. Nothing changes if nothing changes...is for and about me.
If I am not happy, complaining, accepting unacceptable behavior, people pleasing, and so on...I am not a victim...I am a volunteer...because I can change all of that...and more!
mamalioness said
Sep 11, 2017
the old saying...hurt me once?? shame on you...hurt me twice?? shame on me....well I don't like to use the word shame, but yes...I use that saying all the time...." I am victim once...volunteer if it (abuse/abandonment/toxic behavior by another) continues in my life......I can make a mistake..misjudge and yea get hurt, but to keep letting it happen?? I have to work the steps and figure out "what is my CoDa pay off here??? what is it about ME that is letting this continue"
Case in point...adopted daughter and her continuous head games...after I had my eye surgery last year, I am in recovery, lying on the couch, BMF is across the street fixing me dinner..something you would "think" my daughter would do...she never even showed up to give me a ride to the doctor...stood me up the first time...I didn't even "go there" with her on the 2nd surgery....so she says "oh i'll meet you and your boss at the clinic" of course I expected nothing from her and therefore was not shattered when she didn't show......i am lying on the couch, pondering all this and I ASKED me "is this what you want for the rest of your days??? being stood up?? lied to??? dissed on important engagements??? head games??? being shot down nearly 100% when I do need her help????" the answer was "NO NO NO" and I was done....I began distancing myself and finally I just gently, peacefully, without rancor walked away.....i am no longer a volunteer for her mental cruelty.....she is what she is....I say God bless as I gently walk my own, separate and healthier path...I am happier, much happier without her....Do I wish it could have been different?? sure!! but a wish and a quarter MAY get me a cup of coffee......I spend my energy on my relationships that are happy..mutual..equal...reciprocating....HEALTHY..........just saying
Bo said
Sep 11, 2017
For me, I find that I have to be at rock bottom for the proverbial flip the switch to occur. And when it does, it's flipped. Done. On or off. Period.
I remember at a point during my worst, my sponsor had to point out to me that everything going on with my relationship -- was spilling over into other areas of my life. I was not doing well. I needed someone to show me the cold, hard, truth. Did he tell me what to do? Well, that's between us. But it got to a point where I needed what I needed. I needed the help. I was so in it, I didn't know what the "right" thing to do for me was. I can see that. I get that. I had a friend in the rooms -- a close friend, a best friend -- who was just dying where he was. He begged me to tell him what was the best, right, healthy thing to do. I told him what I would do, what I thought he wanted and should do, but it was up to him. We give no advice in al-anon because, well, for many reasons. Sometimes you have to adapt, improvise and make do. Like when DV is involved. All goes out the window and your focus changes.
Nothing changes if nothing changes...allowed me, when I got healthy, to make a healthy decision, the best decision for me. I decided to end my marriage. It was the best, healthiest, and right decision for me.
I have found that nothing changes if nothing changes can tell me exactly what I need to know.
a4l said
Sep 11, 2017
Its true....but then there is the 12th step to consider. I know that someone shouting in my face when I'm still at step one, does nothing to help me embrace the process of change. So as a seasoned alanoner, I consider the most effective method of achieving the 12th step. To be honest, the way you talk about your ex, Bo, suggests to me she's still living rent free in your head. I know when I'm still trying to evict mental and emotional tenants, im sensitive to others who I see as being foolish the way I was foolish. Its really not about them, but all about me underneath that intolerance.
Bo said
Sep 11, 2017
I agree about the shouting aspect when someone is on step one. I agree. I think change comes for everyone when they are ready and truly want it. Sometimes it doesn't come at all. As far as my ex, no, LOL, she does not live rent free in my head at all. My shares "about" her are not "about her" in that they are the content -- which is part of the context, which is about me. I share about me, what I do, how I do what I need to do in order to get better, get healthy, stay healthy, etc. That's the context and perspective of me living my life. If it came across otherwise, that is not the case. Nothing changes if nothing changes....is all about me. I think I said it plenty, LOL. Took me long enough to learn it. LOL. Thanks for sharing.
a4l said
Sep 11, 2017
No need to JADE Bo. We all are where we are. And I'm telling you that some of your detailed shares about your former partner, I have found to be incredibly personal and vengeful. I recognise that stage and I know if we are willing to look out ourselves honestly, it passes. Like you say, nothing changes if nothing changes. I'd add, let it begin with me.
Bo said
Sep 11, 2017
Not an effort to Jade. Simply a reply to a direct comment you made to me. You telling me, is your opinion, perspective, etc. -- and I appreciate that. I really do. My content regarding my ex is a snapshot of who I was then, what I was feeling, thinking, etc. And, I share that. For many reasons. I have always felt that can help, especially a newcomer. It makes me feel good to see where I've come from, because I've put in a great deal of work. That said, everyone is entitled to their opinion, you have yours, and I have mine. That's what makes the world go 'round.
-- Edited by Bo on Monday 11th of September 2017 10:12:07 PM
a4l said
Sep 11, 2017
There's an enormous difference between opinion and wisdom, with the esh part of the program leaning toward the latter over the former.
Just as you imply that those who refuse to have your particular understandings of how alanon "should" work and what that looks like, my own belief is that we are best served by looking into our own backyards, and reaching out to others from a place of empathy not judgement. From my looking, there are a whole host of issues each of us need to address within ourselves before telling other people how to be. And only when we have truly done the work, does that cease to be an issue, because as recovery grows, so too does ones approach. Keep coming back Bo.
Jerry F said
Sep 12, 2017
I was given supportive guidance from the old timers which had to do with my unacceptable behavior in meetings. I had no idea what was going on or how I was supposed to act in the meetings and I was filled with anger and resentments because of this disease. I didn't even know that and what I did know was that quite often the fellowship was disturbed at my acting out. I was challenged and warned and at times told to leave the rooms ending with "and keep coming back". On my second trip back I had enough silent and "in the corner" time to get some understanding about how mixed up I was and how sick with time actually feeling the sick. I didn't like the feeling so I went back again sitting quietly and listening. Only one of the things I heard was that if I didn't do what was required for my recovery the disease would get worse...progressively worse and I wasn't anywhere near doubting that or prepared for "worse"...I was too sick and had escaped jail time and my alcoholic/addict had escaped near fatal assault. If nothing changes became an omen I wasn't willing to entertain by chance so I started choosing changes we needed to have from my recovery and worked at making them happen. The fellowship stood by me and supported and directed me. Today I can create necessary positive changes in my life. ((((Hugs))))
Bo said
Sep 12, 2017
If you feel your "comments" or whatever you want to call it, about my "comments" or whatever you want to call it is anything more than opinion, then we will just agree to disagree. When you attach the word wisdom to your comments about someone else's comments, the way that lands with me is that it is opinion. It may be based upon how a statement or comment lands with you, experience, strength, hope, or anything else. And, I am fine with that. And that is nothing more than my opinion. Semantics may not have clarity in many cases. As far as what you feel or interpret as to what I imply -- again, we can simply agree to disagree. Thank you for your perspective, opinion, etc.
Bo said
Sep 12, 2017
The nothing changes if nothing changes, for me, often can come after I am sick and tired of being sick and tired. I am just sick and tired of status quo. Whatever it may be. The awareness of nothing changes and the work I do around that, allows me to make change in me, for me. Thanks.
a4l said
Sep 12, 2017
I believe you are thanking me for my ESH, which for our newcomers translates to Experience, Strength and Hope. You are more than welcome and free to agree to whatever it is you need to in order to achieve your peace. See you around the board my friend.
Bo said
Sep 13, 2017
Rose, thank you for your comments. The basics/fundamentals always help. Changing me just helps me look at me, my part, my role, etc. That stinking thinking is always out there and it just doesn't come back for me -- not anywhere liked it used to. LOL. It used to be daily. Now it's once in a blue moon, and for that I am grateful.
Jerry, Mahalo...I so much like what you said about the learning during the growth period...that was so important for me, and thank you for pointing that out. For me, the recognition...was little by slowly...progress, not perfection. I beat myself up too much and today I am gentle.
Lastly, to the last post before this one...no, I was not thanking you for that. And, I was certainly not agreeing or disagreeing in order to achieve my peace. That is my concern, not yours thank you. I am done with this discussion as it relates to you, and will not respond directly any longer. I wish you all the best, and I sincerely mean that.
SerenityRUS said
Sep 14, 2017
"So, what does this mean to you? How does this -- or does it at all -- factor into your decisions, how you live your life? I find that when I am unwilling to make change, take action, etc. -- I am doing damage control. I am merely waiting for the other shoe to drop -- and then ask for help, advice, guidance, etc., on how to get through something I did not want at all. Something that I don't like -- but if I don't change it will keep happening."
I decided not to read the other comments at this point so I can just give my thoughts/opinions as they relate to me.
The definition of insanity for me is basically what Thomas Edison said, doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. My insanity directly was in proportion to my X's insanity so if mine went up his went up .. if his went up my went up. Ironically the same was not true if his went down mine went down and it was the same for him .. my level of insanity went down and he suffered from what I call MCP (Mr. Crazy Pants, I know not nice however that's a fact and there are police reports to support that conclusion). My distorted thinking was so over the top at that point and time that became the "new norm" in terms of dysfunction. If I didn't come to the awareness I had came to with the help of Alanon I truly shutter to think what would have happened .. everything in my life would not be funny (it already wasn't I was a living shrew), everything in my life would always be a crisis (it was it didn't matter if it was a hangnail or a 911 situation they each had the same intensity) and there will always be intense situations .. my response to them is very different than it used to be (a hangnail is far different than a 911 situation) .. if I continued doing what I was doing and continued to make the same choices .. why would anything be different? NOTHING would be different because I am still stuck doing the same dance. I'd still be throwing up the same verbal vomit, I would still be making the same choices out of fear, I would still be hanging on to my own distorted thought process, which includes and is not limited to martyrdom, victim roles, pity pot, and so on. Truly the only difference between my past self and my current self and an active non recovered alcoholic/addict is I don't need a drink or a drug to get on to that bar stool dreamer of woe is me. My thinking was absolutely distorted and absolutely did not serve a greater good.
I am still learning how to accept people where they are at in their moment/s of healing. I know for a fact I can be as unhealthy as the moment I walked into the doors of Alanon, however because I really actively decided to make the change I have awareness, acceptance and action behind me so that as soon as those moments happen I can step back and do something different. I have options and choices in the throws of my illness I did not know I had because it was easier to throw my hands up and not do the work.
So if you are asking me what nothing changes if nothing changes means to me .. that's it in a lot more words than I probably needed to use .. lol. If nothing changes I don't have the possibilities to see anything different. I don't see myself as worthy, my self esteem is low, I am not taking care of myself. When I change and everything changes because I made the decision to do something different I can open my mind to different possibilities. I can see the everyday miracles and a whole lot is really funny if I see it with a different perspective. The sardonic things that happen daily are available to laugh at. I know I was not ready for a while, and I had to be ready to do so or I would have been very resentful being told what changes I needed to make, and I would have been slower to do so. So I got there when I was ready not when others thought I should and I still push back when being told what I should do because it's really not anyone else's business or timeline as to when I heal or how I do it.
Hugs S :)
Maresie25 said
Sep 19, 2017
I think for me it meant that I had to take the focus off the alcoholic and put the focus on me.
Since I was obsessed that was pretty difficult.
As long as I was stuck obsessing nothing changed.
The key thing was that I had to change, he didn't have to change, and he certainly did not change at all, not one iota.
I changed and my life is better for it. I changed my thinking, I changed my options and I was willing to do things I did not want to do.
I am not limiting my thoughts or my questions to that one simple question, but more to the nothing changes if nothing changes. I went to my usual Saturday morning meeting. It is an great meeting, one of the best in the northern part of our state. People travel, bypass meetings much closer to them, in order to come to this meeting. There is incredible experience, wisdom, and perspective, in the room. That said, a young girl, a newcomer, came for her first ever meeting yesterday -- 21 years old, on a path to finish school with a masters degree, multiple certifications, very intelligent, personable, comes from a wonderful family and community, and as a complete side note, she is a very pretty young girl. She told her story about her alcoholic and drug addict boyfriend. In summary -- this is the guy I want to spend the rest of my life with, I am so in love with him, he's so great, and so on. But, he drinks excessively, does drugs, gets verbally abusive, manipulative, lies, cheats, steals, and so on. So, the meeting went the way the meeting went. Excellent meeting. For her too.
After the meeting, I walked outside and some of the seasoned, experienced ladies were talking. Long story short -- they were talking to the young girl. Saying all the right things. I've been in the rooms for a long time, so I get what's appropriate and what's not. Anyway, after the young girl walked away, one lady turned to another and commented -- don't you just want to tell her to cut your losses, leave, and run from this loser. The other lady said yes, others said yes, they chuckled, they laughed. I get it.
How does this relate to nothing changes if nothing changes. Here is someone at the beginning of their journey, at a critical juncture, perhaps. We "talk" here amongst ourselves, some being well into their journey, down the road. OK, let's not deal with the journey aspect vis a vis time as it can be rather esoteric. But, for any of us...nothing changes if nothing changes. Some struggle, day after day, some 5 out of 7 days a week, some 1 out of 7, some once in a while, and so on and so on. Yes, it is our own decision. We decide how we want to live our live. Nothing changes if nothing changes. If there is no change...life will continue the way it is. Our life will not change, if nothing changes.
So, what does this mean to you? How does this -- or does it at all -- factor into your decisions, how you live your life? I find that when I am unwilling to make change, take action, etc. -- I am doing damage control. I am merely waiting for the other shoe to drop -- and then ask for help, advice, guidance, etc., on how to get through something I did not want at all. Something that I don't like -- but if I don't change it will keep happening.
Thoughts, perspective, comments, insight, experience? Thank you in advance.
For every action there is a re-action.
Basicly to me it means if I live my life half asleep, unaware, in denial, then nothing changes.
If I learn to be aware of who I am and what I want in my life and have the courage to change my situation then I will make a move then things change.
I believe and practice that each of us shares about us without judging another. I believe and practice gossip is dangerous/detrimental to the group. I believe the newest person and the oldest member in a group are on equal footing and nobody has the right to think they know what another should do.
For me, the nothing changes if nothing changes has nothing to do with external changes. It's about me, what's in my heart, my brain, my soul. It's not about leaving, staying, returning, divorcing, marrying, separating - it's about changing the inner me with a HP so that I can stand tall, proud and on my own no matter who or what is around me.
I work really hard to avoid those who claim to be in recovery and then side-step the most basic of principals that keep us sane and safe. I pray for them while taking the side door out of my meeting. Your post proves to me what we suggest all the time - length of time in the program does not mean healthier recovery.
That statement came to me within a home group meeting years ago and remains fresh daily. It was an alert, a warning, finally a truth about self responsibility. I was and am to work this program of recovery daily elsewise if nothing changes...nothing changes. A keep it simple guideline for this, at time, unconscious member who can find himself back at where he was when he first arrived because he was doing the same things over and over again expecting different results...oh that's quite the same idea isn't it.? With all the tools I have been given in Al-Anon it's often insane that I forget where I put them. Love you guys (((((hugs)))))
Sometimes, me changing, making healthy decisions, doing what is best for me, etc. -- that does involve staying, going, leaving and so on. Nothing changes if nothing changes can be and mean a lot of things, in a lot of situations.
Nothing changes if nothing changes was so very powerful for me.
Good post Bo. It has me remembering much that I learned during this growth period. I learned I could change in increments sometimes quickly sometime slowly and I found the power to change and do it using program one step at a time. I made changes and inspected the consequences so that I could keep the process that worked and let go of the part that didn't. It was during this process that I learned how to love the alcoholic/addict and what that really meant along with amending my choice processes and what that meant also. Al-Anon is about changing the thing I need to and can. Mahalo (((hugs)))
For me, nothing changes if nothing changes comes from within...I cannot change another person, place or thing, but I CAN change me....and daily inventory OR when I am into "stinking thinking" mode, its time to do a brutally honest step 10 and if need be, call a recovery mate and get help sorting it out....I cannot progress if I don't get up the courage to change..the willingness to be brutally honest and the humility to "belly up" and do what I gotta do to overcome...
Looking back at the past...why did I stay with my first husband 5 years?? why didn't i dump him when the mental cruelty first began??? Why did I stay with someone so poisonous for my mental health that was already compromised??? what was my "payoff" for staying??? and there is always a "payoff" for allowing the same misery to stay in my life.....Am I financially fearful to change??? (that was it for me---felt I needed him to help pay the bills---a biggie--financial fear is one of the biggest reasons why folks stay in abusive, hostile, toxic relationships) but there can be other "payoffs" a CoDa need to fix /help the other...low self esteem...Fear of being alone....Fear that changing or moving, I may do WORSE....for me?? it was all Fear based......ALL these things I can change about ME>......getting into program....being totally 1000% honest with me and my HP within me.....being open to new ways to take care of me....being willing to do what I have to do to make my life healthier and better....and sometimes i just have to "kiss" my fears and do it afraid because keep in my heart, I know that if I don't take care of me, no one else is gonna step up and do it for me...AND , asking for help, ANY action towards healthy self care , knowing that I can only change me and i CAN with the program and truly following its steps, slogans, et al and really working it..........
Me, for me -- I simply and gratefully got to the point where I was able to ask myself...is this the way I want to live the rest of my life. In short, the answer was and still is no.
As far as the young girl and the seasoned people...as I said...I get it. I sometimes put myself in the place of, if it were my daughter. I think sometimes, if you are human, you feel that way. I don't think there is a right or wrong, and I don't judge people for feeling that way or any other way. I've seen many -- who debated, in their own head, and out loud, but with themselves -- should I leave now before fill in the blank, should I get out now without fill in the blank, and so on. I think it's normal. I think it's human. It's easier for the mind to work that way as a thought process -- without kids, without pets, without being more emotionally vested and invested, before getting married, before, without, sooner, and so on. Doesn't matter. To each their own. I often listen to some of these newcomers, and I see so many who are traveling the same road. It's human to feel, to have compassion, to have been where they are or are going and to want to give back...lead a horse to water. LOL.
Thanks for the posts. Nothing changes if nothing changes...is for and about me.
If I am not happy, complaining, accepting unacceptable behavior, people pleasing, and so on...I am not a victim...I am a volunteer...because I can change all of that...and more!
Case in point...adopted daughter and her continuous head games...after I had my eye surgery last year, I am in recovery, lying on the couch, BMF is across the street fixing me dinner..something you would "think" my daughter would do...she never even showed up to give me a ride to the doctor...stood me up the first time...I didn't even "go there" with her on the 2nd surgery....so she says "oh i'll meet you and your boss at the clinic" of course I expected nothing from her and therefore was not shattered when she didn't show......i am lying on the couch, pondering all this and I ASKED me "is this what you want for the rest of your days??? being stood up?? lied to??? dissed on important engagements??? head games??? being shot down nearly 100% when I do need her help????" the answer was "NO NO NO" and I was done....I began distancing myself and finally I just gently, peacefully, without rancor walked away.....i am no longer a volunteer for her mental cruelty.....she is what she is....I say God bless as I gently walk my own, separate and healthier path...I am happier, much happier without her....Do I wish it could have been different?? sure!! but a wish and a quarter MAY get me a cup of coffee......I spend my energy on my relationships that are happy..mutual..equal...reciprocating....HEALTHY..........just saying
I remember at a point during my worst, my sponsor had to point out to me that everything going on with my relationship -- was spilling over into other areas of my life. I was not doing well. I needed someone to show me the cold, hard, truth. Did he tell me what to do? Well, that's between us. But it got to a point where I needed what I needed. I needed the help. I was so in it, I didn't know what the "right" thing to do for me was. I can see that. I get that. I had a friend in the rooms -- a close friend, a best friend -- who was just dying where he was. He begged me to tell him what was the best, right, healthy thing to do. I told him what I would do, what I thought he wanted and should do, but it was up to him. We give no advice in al-anon because, well, for many reasons. Sometimes you have to adapt, improvise and make do. Like when DV is involved. All goes out the window and your focus changes.
Nothing changes if nothing changes...allowed me, when I got healthy, to make a healthy decision, the best decision for me. I decided to end my marriage. It was the best, healthiest, and right decision for me.
I have found that nothing changes if nothing changes can tell me exactly what I need to know.
Not an effort to Jade. Simply a reply to a direct comment you made to me. You telling me, is your opinion, perspective, etc. -- and I appreciate that. I really do. My content regarding my ex is a snapshot of who I was then, what I was feeling, thinking, etc. And, I share that. For many reasons. I have always felt that can help, especially a newcomer. It makes me feel good to see where I've come from, because I've put in a great deal of work. That said, everyone is entitled to their opinion, you have yours, and I have mine. That's what makes the world go 'round.
-- Edited by Bo on Monday 11th of September 2017 10:12:07 PM
I was given supportive guidance from the old timers which had to do with my unacceptable behavior in meetings. I had no idea what was going on or how I was supposed to act in the meetings and I was filled with anger and resentments because of this disease. I didn't even know that and what I did know was that quite often the fellowship was disturbed at my acting out. I was challenged and warned and at times told to leave the rooms ending with "and keep coming back". On my second trip back I had enough silent and "in the corner" time to get some understanding about how mixed up I was and how sick with time actually feeling the sick. I didn't like the feeling so I went back again sitting quietly and listening. Only one of the things I heard was that if I didn't do what was required for my recovery the disease would get worse...progressively worse and I wasn't anywhere near doubting that or prepared for "worse"...I was too sick and had escaped jail time and my alcoholic/addict had escaped near fatal assault. If nothing changes became an omen I wasn't willing to entertain by chance so I started choosing changes we needed to have from my recovery and worked at making them happen. The fellowship stood by me and supported and directed me. Today I can create necessary positive changes in my life. ((((Hugs))))
If you feel your "comments" or whatever you want to call it, about my "comments" or whatever you want to call it is anything more than opinion, then we will just agree to disagree. When you attach the word wisdom to your comments about someone else's comments, the way that lands with me is that it is opinion. It may be based upon how a statement or comment lands with you, experience, strength, hope, or anything else. And, I am fine with that. And that is nothing more than my opinion. Semantics may not have clarity in many cases. As far as what you feel or interpret as to what I imply -- again, we can simply agree to disagree. Thank you for your perspective, opinion, etc.
Jerry, Mahalo...I so much like what you said about the learning during the growth period...that was so important for me, and thank you for pointing that out. For me, the recognition...was little by slowly...progress, not perfection. I beat myself up too much and today I am gentle.
Lastly, to the last post before this one...no, I was not thanking you for that. And, I was certainly not agreeing or disagreeing in order to achieve my peace. That is my concern, not yours thank you. I am done with this discussion as it relates to you, and will not respond directly any longer. I wish you all the best, and I sincerely mean that.
I decided not to read the other comments at this point so I can just give my thoughts/opinions as they relate to me.
The definition of insanity for me is basically what Thomas Edison said, doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. My insanity directly was in proportion to my X's insanity so if mine went up his went up .. if his went up my went up. Ironically the same was not true if his went down mine went down and it was the same for him .. my level of insanity went down and he suffered from what I call MCP (Mr. Crazy Pants, I know not nice however that's a fact and there are police reports to support that conclusion). My distorted thinking was so over the top at that point and time that became the "new norm" in terms of dysfunction. If I didn't come to the awareness I had came to with the help of Alanon I truly shutter to think what would have happened .. everything in my life would not be funny (it already wasn't I was a living shrew), everything in my life would always be a crisis (it was it didn't matter if it was a hangnail or a 911 situation they each had the same intensity) and there will always be intense situations .. my response to them is very different than it used to be (a hangnail is far different than a 911 situation) .. if I continued doing what I was doing and continued to make the same choices .. why would anything be different? NOTHING would be different because I am still stuck doing the same dance. I'd still be throwing up the same verbal vomit, I would still be making the same choices out of fear, I would still be hanging on to my own distorted thought process, which includes and is not limited to martyrdom, victim roles, pity pot, and so on. Truly the only difference between my past self and my current self and an active non recovered alcoholic/addict is I don't need a drink or a drug to get on to that bar stool dreamer of woe is me. My thinking was absolutely distorted and absolutely did not serve a greater good.
I am still learning how to accept people where they are at in their moment/s of healing. I know for a fact I can be as unhealthy as the moment I walked into the doors of Alanon, however because I really actively decided to make the change I have awareness, acceptance and action behind me so that as soon as those moments happen I can step back and do something different. I have options and choices in the throws of my illness I did not know I had because it was easier to throw my hands up and not do the work.
So if you are asking me what nothing changes if nothing changes means to me .. that's it in a lot more words than I probably needed to use .. lol. If nothing changes I don't have the possibilities to see anything different. I don't see myself as worthy, my self esteem is low, I am not taking care of myself. When I change and everything changes because I made the decision to do something different I can open my mind to different possibilities. I can see the everyday miracles and a whole lot is really funny if I see it with a different perspective. The sardonic things that happen daily are available to laugh at. I know I was not ready for a while, and I had to be ready to do so or I would have been very resentful being told what changes I needed to make, and I would have been slower to do so. So I got there when I was ready not when others thought I should and I still push back when being told what I should do because it's really not anyone else's business or timeline as to when I heal or how I do it.
Hugs S :)
I think for me it meant that I had to take the focus off the alcoholic and put the focus on me.
Since I was obsessed that was pretty difficult.
As long as I was stuck obsessing nothing changed.
The key thing was that I had to change, he didn't have to change, and he certainly did not change at all, not one iota.
I changed and my life is better for it. I changed my thinking, I changed my options and I was willing to do things I did not want to do.
Maresie25