So, I find myself doing this every so often. I try not to live in fear, but I ask myself, "Am I okay to live on my own if my spouse was suddenly not there?" The reason I bring this up is, I know there are a bunch of you that have moved on to new, healthier relationships after a toxic, codependent mess of a relationship with your alcoholic ex. I know my current husband is not an alcoholic and there is not so much a risk of replay of my ex-A in that regard. I am more concerned about me falling into patterns of neediness and dependency/codependency. It is ironic that I have come to learn that my marriage is on more solid ground when I know I would survive without it. Still...as time passes (7 years today actually), it is a challenge to not have your lives deeply intertwined. For today, I continue to remember I am a whole entity on my own. I never want to lose myself, my confidence, my personal identity in a relationship again. I choose to love today, but I keep tabs on it not growing sick again. How bout you guys?
hotrod said
Sep 4, 2017
I agree completely Mark. I am in my relationship for 30 years and we are two individuals walking side by side with each other. I have been determined to be interdependent in this relationship and as far as I can see it is working. We share plans expenses, ideas and space in a healthy manner . I make sure I attend alanon meetings weekly to keep my tools sharpened and guard against any unhealthy dependency. We each see our individual friends separately and together.
I do feel/know that I would miss him if the relationship should end but would no be destroyed. Love your share .Thank you Congrats on your anniversary.
tiredtonite said
Sep 4, 2017
I'm not sure there is any way to prepare for the emotional fallout of finding yourself on your own again after a loving committed relationship. We are together seven years too. Trust, encouragement and support of one another's individual interests has only helped each of us to grow in skills of socialization with others, expand and grow our separate interests and become more confident individuals in a world outside of our relationship. It has also made for some conversations when we are with one another. Our support of one another includes genuine interest in hearing about our hours, days etc. spent exploring separately. Humor and a bit of generosity can go a long way for getting along with one another. Sometimes neither of us wants to really hear the "long" story about everything the other did. We can still be patient listeners even if bored. We love one another so are glad the other had a great time. Taking time outs so to speak from one another whether all alone or with others has been good for us. If either of us was fearful of taking or giving one another space, we might want to look within and ask why.
We are both feeling more and more of a natural interdependence and learning more about the give and take in our relationship. Just like with program, we don't have to work each day "perfectly." Showing up with HOW honesty, openness and willingness goes a long way. Withholding through lack of communication, expecting mind reading, falling in love with another's potential once blocked our ability to have a full and honest relationship. We stay available, feel safety in being vulnerable with one another, admit fears, ask for help, respect each other's right to choose separateness - choices, friends, family, religion, politics, 12 step programs etc.
We are trying to carve out traditions that honor our relationship with one another. To that end, we invite others to be a part of these traditions as well as reserve certain ones just for the two of us. We're speaking honestly and openly about finances and the future and our wants and needs these days because it's important. Best friends to one another, we hope and wish only the best for one another as hp reveals our journeys to us odaat. Hope this was of some help. (((hugs)) TT
milkwood said
Sep 4, 2017
Happy Anniversary Mark
I value the independence balance that learning about codependency has brought me, but I also try to stay mindful of the natural joining that a committed relationship brings with it as well. I am inclined to say 'yes' to another person's ideas rather quickly and when I first learnt about my codependent traits I went the other way for a while, no, no, no! Your question is a good way of checking in, thank you for that.
el-cee said
Sep 4, 2017
I can get very needy at times in my own head, its almost like a craving, a strong irrational craving. Maybe somewhere its the craving for validation and maybe my deep rooted fear of rejection, when I'm in it I know ive went off balance again and to be honest this is quite frequent for me.
Its what I do with it that's more important. I recognise it as part of my addictive compulsive personality that maybe I will always have really. I hid this side of me from my new man friend for a long time and I shared with my girlfriends and alanon friends just to release the pressure but I remembered this is an honest program so I told him one day about this side of me that he didn't know about although he may have had his suspicions because it makes me withdraw when I'm in full flow. I think its because the fear builds up and I reject before being rejected if you get what I mean.
He was great about it and it made me feel better and it made us closer. It hasn't went away though, its gotten less but it flares up, I just don't react because I know that its my crazy mind again, its this crazy disease telling me lies again, so I don't do anything and then it passes.
I couldn't cope with it without this program because the self searching for the truth of me helps me see that nothing lasts forever, nothing and no one belongs to me including my children, step 1 and I have only this day to concentrate on not tomorrow or yesterday, just today and today you have your man, I have mine and theres no more we can ask for than just this day. x
Iamhere said
Sep 4, 2017
Happy Anniversary pinkchip - congrats. to you both! This is a great topic/discussion as it makes one think. My AH and I have found peace in our home. Is it perfect? Nope. Is it good? Yes. We are independent and have been for much of the relationship. We both had been married to super needy people before and neither of us came out of that 'well'...
We came into the marriage this way and it's taken all of the years we've been together to be an average interdependent couple. We would both be just fine if we had to be alone/not together as we were just fine for years before we got together. We would mourn the loss and then we would move on. I can only speak for myself and not him, but it is because of the daily program activities I do that help keep me grounded. I am so grateful to wake up with joy and hope as my life before was so opposite.
We accept each others' flaws and hold tight to the commitment we made when we decided to marry. Even when there is chaos/drama around, we're committed to leaving it outside our doors as much as possible. He's still in denial at times about this disease in our boys and it can cause me to want to scream, pull my hair out and run....but I am reminded by either my sponsor or my HP that he's allowed to heal/deal in his time frame just as others allowed me to do so.
I relate to much of what el-cee wrote. I tend to retract when I am unsettled or uncomfortable about how something is playing out in a relationship. I've learned in recovery to try and process 'that' and then if I've got words I feel I need to share, I do so. My sponsor really pushes me to keep it about me always and that's made discussions here go so much better.
Here's to another day of healthy relationships for one and all - salute!!
DavidG said
Sep 4, 2017
I can catch myself belong codependent sometimes- and take a rain check. Not just with my SO, but with the world around me. It was a great relief not to keep second guessing my So, all of the time. And dealing with my SO second guessing me... dealing with other people's solutions for me takes tact. Also the good ol' serenity prayer, because sometimes they might happen to be right!
Nice share my friend... ...
YARNCRAZY said
Sep 4, 2017
For the last 1yr and eight mths and especially the past 5 mths when i moved in with my boyfriend, i have to constantly keep a check on myself to retain who i am seperately from "us'. Its too easy to let him do for me and drive me around etc. its easy for me to slip in that him first,sweet weak person. but i constanly put independant behavior as a priority. i can take the bus to my doctors, i can get by myself over to my coloring book class and to my OA meeting. i take up my own space and speak up for myself. alanon taught me this. i recently am on a weight reducing mission as well as back excercises
Breakingfree said
Sep 4, 2017
Congratulations Pinkchip! I'm recently engaged to my man of 3.5 years. Relationship for me is somewhat difficult for me, in that my old codependent self has been quieted and my independent self fights the merge a bit. We've lived together the last year. When I survived my divorce to exAH, I was broken down. I vowed a few never agains. In letting this man walk into my life and help me to be vulnerable again, at times I get scared. I do not live codependently, or blindly any longer. Trusting comes at a cost as does loving someone. But done with the right person in a healthy manner, you know it doesn't have to be merely surviving Day to day. And it would hurt if we didn't work out, but I know I would be okay and breathe again just fine on my own and that's the difference for me. Knowing this is a healthy loving blended family unit and we choose us without manipulation. It is a new and wonderful thing for me, not always easy, but I'm not ignoring my red flags anymore. We hold each other accountable and support each other. I much prefer life this way! Thanks for the topic!
mamalioness said
Sep 4, 2017
Boy that is so spot on, what you said....not being so deeply intertwined that there is no "separate but together" element....and yes, IF I were to find a healthy relationship (that would be a first) I hope I don't screw it up by being needy and insecure, (abandonment fears, etc) and to lose myself...and yea, I would need my program , perhaps, more to keep me from beign sick again....I so agree wiht you....I'm not in a relationship, dunno if I will be..but ANY close relationship, I could mess it up with the old sicko CoDa crap if I am not watchful, vigilent....
yanksfan51 said
Sep 5, 2017
Congratulations on your anniversary Mark!
I have just been thinking about this question/- I'm not in a relationship now but have thought a lot about how I got lost in my marriage. In my case part of that was having gotten married so young, but I know now that another big part was about how I believed I could relate (control) to my now exAH. Im hopeful that the healthiest relationships are a result of having put time and work in on ourselves. Thank you for this share today!
Mary
1911A1 said
Sep 9, 2017
Great insight and conversation starter, PC!
In the past, when I gave of myself in a relationship, it was to earn their love. Healthy people saw through that and quickly moved on. Unfortunately, unhealthy people also saw through it and took advantage of it. Then, thanks to the awakening I had in the rooms and elsewhere, I discovered this superpower called boundaries, and suddenly it was the toxic people who began to move on. Today, when I give of myself, it is out of my abundance. But still, I am constantly self-checking my motivations, because codependency is like alcoholism - it may go into remission, but I firmly believe that it can never be cured.
My codependency has been the root cause of nearly all the dysfunction and abuse I have experienced in my life, and was what made me a "Cluster B Magnet" as I like to call it. Hell, not only did I allow abuse, my behavior was the equivalent of an engraved invitation for it!
I have developed a handful of healthy boundary skills, thanks in large part to what I have learned in the rooms of the program, but I also still have some unhealthy defenses that stand in the way of true intimacy. I have become healthier and more functional, but I still have a long way to go (progress not perfection). At my therapist's recommendation, I'm investigating group therapy as another tool to help me deconstruct those defenses and learn to express healthy vulnerability. At the heart of things I am still terrified of being truly known. I credit the wisdom and love I have received in the rooms with helping me come this far.
So, I find myself doing this every so often. I try not to live in fear, but I ask myself, "Am I okay to live on my own if my spouse was suddenly not there?" The reason I bring this up is, I know there are a bunch of you that have moved on to new, healthier relationships after a toxic, codependent mess of a relationship with your alcoholic ex. I know my current husband is not an alcoholic and there is not so much a risk of replay of my ex-A in that regard. I am more concerned about me falling into patterns of neediness and dependency/codependency. It is ironic that I have come to learn that my marriage is on more solid ground when I know I would survive without it. Still...as time passes (7 years today actually), it is a challenge to not have your lives deeply intertwined. For today, I continue to remember I am a whole entity on my own. I never want to lose myself, my confidence, my personal identity in a relationship again. I choose to love today, but I keep tabs on it not growing sick again. How bout you guys?
I agree completely Mark. I am in my relationship for 30 years and we are two individuals walking side by side with each other. I have been determined to be interdependent in this relationship and as far as I can see it is working. We share plans expenses, ideas and space in a healthy manner . I make sure I attend alanon meetings weekly to keep my tools sharpened and guard against any unhealthy dependency. We each see our individual friends separately and together.
I do feel/know that I would miss him if the relationship should end but would no be destroyed.
Love your share .Thank you Congrats on your anniversary.
I'm not sure there is any way to prepare for the emotional fallout of finding yourself on your own again after a loving committed relationship. We are together seven years too. Trust, encouragement and support of one another's individual interests has only helped each of us to grow in skills of socialization with others, expand and grow our separate interests and become more confident individuals in a world outside of our relationship. It has also made for some conversations when we are with one another. Our support of one another includes genuine interest in hearing about our hours, days etc. spent exploring separately. Humor and a bit of generosity can go a long way for getting along with one another. Sometimes neither of us wants to really hear the "long" story about everything the other did. We can still be patient listeners even if bored. We love one another so are glad the other had a great time. Taking time outs so to speak from one another whether all alone or with others has been good for us. If either of us was fearful of taking or giving one another space, we might want to look within and ask why.
We are both feeling more and more of a natural interdependence and learning more about the give and take in our relationship. Just like with program, we don't have to work each day "perfectly." Showing up with HOW honesty, openness and willingness goes a long way. Withholding through lack of communication, expecting mind reading, falling in love with another's potential once blocked our ability to have a full and honest relationship. We stay available, feel safety in being vulnerable with one another, admit fears, ask for help, respect each other's right to choose separateness - choices, friends, family, religion, politics, 12 step programs etc.
We are trying to carve out traditions that honor our relationship with one another. To that end, we invite others to be a part of these traditions as well as reserve certain ones just for the two of us. We're speaking honestly and openly about finances and the future and our wants and needs these days because it's important. Best friends to one another, we hope and wish only the best for one another as hp reveals our journeys to us odaat. Hope this was of some help. (((hugs)) TT
I value the independence balance that learning about codependency has brought me, but I also try to stay mindful of the natural joining that a committed relationship brings with it as well. I am inclined to say 'yes' to another person's ideas rather quickly and when I first learnt about my codependent traits I went the other way for a while, no, no, no! Your question is a good way of checking in, thank you for that.
I can get very needy at times in my own head, its almost like a craving, a strong irrational craving. Maybe somewhere its the craving for validation and maybe my deep rooted fear of rejection, when I'm in it I know ive went off balance again and to be honest this is quite frequent for me.
Its what I do with it that's more important. I recognise it as part of my addictive compulsive personality that maybe I will always have really. I hid this side of me from my new man friend for a long time and I shared with my girlfriends and alanon friends just to release the pressure but I remembered this is an honest program so I told him one day about this side of me that he didn't know about although he may have had his suspicions because it makes me withdraw when I'm in full flow. I think its because the fear builds up and I reject before being rejected if you get what I mean.
He was great about it and it made me feel better and it made us closer. It hasn't went away though, its gotten less but it flares up, I just don't react because I know that its my crazy mind again, its this crazy disease telling me lies again, so I don't do anything and then it passes.
I couldn't cope with it without this program because the self searching for the truth of me helps me see that nothing lasts forever, nothing and no one belongs to me including my children, step 1 and I have only this day to concentrate on not tomorrow or yesterday, just today and today you have your man, I have mine and theres no more we can ask for than just this day. x
We came into the marriage this way and it's taken all of the years we've been together to be an average interdependent couple. We would both be just fine if we had to be alone/not together as we were just fine for years before we got together. We would mourn the loss and then we would move on. I can only speak for myself and not him, but it is because of the daily program activities I do that help keep me grounded. I am so grateful to wake up with joy and hope as my life before was so opposite.
We accept each others' flaws and hold tight to the commitment we made when we decided to marry. Even when there is chaos/drama around, we're committed to leaving it outside our doors as much as possible. He's still in denial at times about this disease in our boys and it can cause me to want to scream, pull my hair out and run....but I am reminded by either my sponsor or my HP that he's allowed to heal/deal in his time frame just as others allowed me to do so.
I relate to much of what el-cee wrote. I tend to retract when I am unsettled or uncomfortable about how something is playing out in a relationship. I've learned in recovery to try and process 'that' and then if I've got words I feel I need to share, I do so. My sponsor really pushes me to keep it about me always and that's made discussions here go so much better.
Here's to another day of healthy relationships for one and all - salute!!
I can catch myself belong codependent sometimes- and take a rain check. Not just with my SO, but with the world around me. It was a great relief not to keep second guessing my So, all of the time. And dealing with my SO second guessing me... dealing with other people's solutions for me takes tact. Also the good ol' serenity prayer, because sometimes they might happen to be right!
Nice share my friend...
...
Boy that is so spot on, what you said....not being so deeply intertwined that there is no "separate but together" element....and yes, IF I were to find a healthy relationship (that would be a first) I hope I don't screw it up by being needy and insecure, (abandonment fears, etc) and to lose myself...and yea, I would need my program , perhaps, more to keep me from beign sick again....I so agree wiht you....I'm not in a relationship, dunno if I will be..but ANY close relationship, I could mess it up with the old sicko CoDa crap if I am not watchful, vigilent....
Congratulations on your anniversary Mark!
I have just been thinking about this question/- I'm not in a relationship now but have thought a lot about how I got lost in my marriage. In my case part of that was having gotten married so young, but I know now that another big part was about how I believed I could relate (control) to my now exAH. Im hopeful that the healthiest relationships are a result of having put time and work in on ourselves. Thank you for this share today!
Mary
In the past, when I gave of myself in a relationship, it was to earn their love. Healthy people saw through that and quickly moved on. Unfortunately, unhealthy people also saw through it and took advantage of it. Then, thanks to the awakening I had in the rooms and elsewhere, I discovered this superpower called boundaries, and suddenly it was the toxic people who began to move on. Today, when I give of myself, it is out of my abundance. But still, I am constantly self-checking my motivations, because codependency is like alcoholism - it may go into remission, but I firmly believe that it can never be cured.
My codependency has been the root cause of nearly all the dysfunction and abuse I have experienced in my life, and was what made me a "Cluster B Magnet" as I like to call it. Hell, not only did I allow abuse, my behavior was the equivalent of an engraved invitation for it!
I have developed a handful of healthy boundary skills, thanks in large part to what I have learned in the rooms of the program, but I also still have some unhealthy defenses that stand in the way of true intimacy. I have become healthier and more functional, but I still have a long way to go (progress not perfection). At my therapist's recommendation, I'm investigating group therapy as another tool to help me deconstruct those defenses and learn to express healthy vulnerability. At the heart of things I am still terrified of being truly known. I credit the wisdom and love I have received in the rooms with helping me come this far.