I had an ok holiday. ABF doesn't drink when he's with me, he's not even tempted. We didn't talk about anything but I feel it was ok to Ostrich for a bit. We talked when we got back. He wants to keep everything fun and light because if home is going to just be arguments he's just going to want to drink after a tough day at work he says. So I keep things fun and light as I'm still on holiday from work. I go back next week.
And now after a positive week back at work for him he has had to work late - some disaster and he won't be home til 2am. And he had to fire someone. He's never managed a late working night without drinking and his messages give clues that he has probably been drinking. So I'm alone, with the dog again. And I'm worried about next week. I can deal with him when I'm not working, but on Monday I go back to 14-16 hour days (not all in the office) and highly stressful work conditions and looking after my dog too. I've done a year of this and it almost killed me. Certainly our relationship is highly damaged. I can't do another year of it. I won't survive.
And what I'm left struggling with - why does he get to dictate when we argue/when I air my issues with the situation? Why does he get to say we keep things light? Why does he get to avoid the conversation about our lack of intimacy? Why am I left bottling my emotions? I don't like arguing but I hate boiling over with unsaid resentments. When did he become the centre in the universe? I need to take time to put me back in the middle but with work and the dog I don't know how to do that.
Get to the meetings. Talk things through. Share. Keep coming back.
SerenityRUS said
Sep 1, 2017
Hugs MB,
I personally think it's healthy not to pick everything apart daily. It can feel like my brain has gone through an egg scrambler and everyone really needs to have a good healthy dose of fun. There is a time and a place to have the serious conversations. I also know from my past experience .. issues have to be addressed and my experience or lack of addressing anything did not help in my own situation. I know as confrontational as I could be .. I lacked the ability to actually have a conversation about an issue. Now I can swing either way .. now it's what is best for the situation .. and you can have a completely rational conversation and it's confrontation. So that's positive or negative kind of deal what I'm referring to. Confrontation doesn't need to be scary or loud.
I think the A becomes to the center of the universe or at least in my world because I lacked the ability to say I'm not ok with that out of fear or shame or just it was easier to avoid. I didn't want him to go and drink. I didn't want to be at fault. Really we never fought until I started taking a stand and even then it was me being more of a shrew and him not saying a word. LOL .. oi. I absolutely allowed that situation to take place and undoing the power imbalance I did not know where to begin and I needed a present partner to undo all of it.
I started to learn to take my power back and one of those issues with power was .. this is uncomfortable .. we need to talk about it. My XAH the best way to describe it was like talking to a fence post .. and it's a shame however talking to a fence post is just not how relationships are conducted. The lights were on and no one was home. Which again is how he learned to survive the relationship which is sad.
Unfortunately I know this was true again for my own situation there was just to much water under the bridge and we were both drowning .. I had to make the moral/ethical decision to save myself (which included my kids) I just couldn't live like that anymore.
It sounds like you are trying to work through things that the sponsorship will help a great deal .. the real meat and potatoes of dealing with different issues, practicing how to have those conversations in a safe environment this is all a good thing.
Keep doing you .. sounds like you had a nice time on vacation and the minutia of life is always waiting because it's that little stuff that never really goes away.
Hugs S :)
MizzB said
Sep 1, 2017
THanks Serenity. I wish I could no overanalyse everything - but it's part of my job to analyse, interpret and workout what people's issues are and fix them so it's quite hard not to do that in my own life. I don't want to argue the whole time - of constantly make life about drinking. In some ways I feel a little lucky that by ABF is willing to talk about things when he is sober and he does so without blaming me and without self pity. Drunk is a different matter which is why I don't talk to him when he's drunk.
However after a bad year, and a tough summer, I think there is a lot of damage done to the relationship and if he's drinking again after two weeks off, all the words in the world don't change the situation that I find myself in - alone again on a Friday night doing all the care of the dog. And words need to become actions or I'll take the action.
SerenityRUS said
Sep 1, 2017
I totally hear you and I hope you are able to find some peace enjoying your evening.
Hugs S :)
MizzB said
Sep 1, 2017
I'm doing some work for my job. Its the only thing that distracts my brain unfortunately. When my personal life goes to hell, my students' grades go up!
Iamhere said
Sep 1, 2017
(((MizzB))) - so sorry that you're struggling....your last line truly sounds 'easy' yet I know it's not. However, for me, that's exactly what I had to do....I had to go to meetings and be around saner, logical people who showed me how to have those discussions that Serenity speaks of. My AH is also like a fence post....however, as I've learned how to calmly state my needs or dislikes with I statements, he does hear me better.
He often comes back days later and says, "When you said.................................did you mean................................? Or I think I understand now - you said............................ He and I just process differently and in different intervals.
I too have always over-thought most things. Having a good sponsor has really, really helped me with this too. Much of my over-process was actually projecting - which leads me to a circle-jerk in my mind.
Breathe in and do you. The answers will come - they always do - just not always when we think we need them to!! (((Hugs))) - glad your holiday was a nice break!!
MizzB said
Sep 1, 2017
breathing in. And out. Thank you IAH.
He's come home drunk.
I'm still breathing
And my kitchen is clean. I always clean when I get stressed. The flat's been a mess since I got back - I guess I needed this to get it back in order!!
pinkchip said
Sep 1, 2017
He "gets" to be all of those things in your relationship because, at this point, he is a sick alcoholic and that is what alcoholism does to a person and you are still putting up with it.
That probably sounds harsh and I don't mean it to so let me clarify that I am a recovering alcoholic and I am a director of a rehab also. So my feedback is basically from a place of "I understand and speak selfish, emotionally crippled, narcissistic alcoholic because I was one and I deal with them in heaping doses daily."
Loved ones of alcoholics put up with sooo much crap and there are some sensible reasons. In early stages of a relationship with an alcoholic, they are so charming and flattering and fun. They present like you are the best thing in their life and will often say that. The loved one gets to thinking they really can influence, fix, and help the alcoholic with their "tragic problem" that nobody else "gets" but special you who is loyal and doesn't shaft them like everyone else in the world.
So...I read you quoting your ABF and was like "Wow...all the same BS excuses and sick rationalizations for thoughtless selfish behavior that ALL alcoholics engage in!" ALL his "reasons" for drinking or not are total manipulation and BS...probably not purposeful on his part, but not OK either. Why does he do this? Because that is alcoholism and he is an alcoholic. Period. Look no further.
Alanon will have you turning the attention on you so that whether or not you stay together, his alcoholism doesn't wreck you, dictate so much of your emotions and well being, diminish your self worth, and make you feel so compromised about your relationship boundaries/values. It will help you hop of this merry go round of trying to make sense of and affect or predict what an insane, uncontrollable and unpredictable alcoholic will do. That is exhausting! There IS help and hope. You are not alone!
Jerry F said
Sep 1, 2017
Aloha Sweet Sister and Thank you and sorry with that post...I read and my head starts to sing the song Memories Light the Corners of my mind which is okay because I get the memories and not the angst. I remember getting the answer to the same question you ask regarding my alcoholic/addict wife when we were doing our parts in the disease and then I had a sponsor and therapist in the VA who asked me the question and taught me how to ask the question of myself..."What is my part in it"? That is a rocket science question which required me to get out of the emotional trauma and to QTIP and just objectively find my part in the situation. Arrrrgh!! That was why I was crazy I didn't know the part to stop and change as I was a dumb as a stick with it. My actions and reactions were insane which threatened my life my own existence and hers. If the definition of Sanity was the continuous and orderly process of thought...my definition was running with the substitute DIS-orderly. What was my part in it? I was using the wrong thoughts and didn't even know how to define the right ones. Thank God for the fellowship of the AFG and my sponsor and my therapist.
I once declared to my therapist after he asked me how I felt about a drama/trauma event hit me that "I felt like Shit"!!! and he asked me "So you feel like a warm, smelly, pile of dog poop in your front yard? I looked at him as if he was insane and deaf and asked him "What are you saying"? and then answered that question with the same mind I described the problem with...I got the picture and it wasn't about the dog poop and about me and how I was seeing and describing the events of my problems. That afternoon I learned how to say..."I am angry about it"!! and loved the change. What is my part in it.
I get the consequences from how I do what I do and not anyone else. I love reminding my self of that even now at this time because I always have choices with desires almost at the same time on how I want my life to go. I hear that from you and I know what it feels like.....and I love Mable also. She shows a loving accepting spirit...Give her a hug from Hilo for me and have one for yourself. ((((hugs))))
How do you want this to come out for you and what are you willing to do to get that.
-- Edited by Jerry F on Friday 1st of September 2017 07:41:09 PM
MizzB said
Sep 1, 2017
Thank you PinkChip. It doesn't sound harsh. It's what I believe. I know I am making it easy for him. Far too easy for him. I'm currently trying to work with his mother as well because I shouldn't have to suffer this alone - and I can't tell my own parents, they'd worry too much. And that may sound harsh but I don't feel that his mum should be in the dark about anything because if I end it, he won't have a place of denial to hide in. I'm trying to get back to me. I used to go to the gym a lot - my dog stops me doing that now. I have lost most of my friends - but that isn't to do with the alcoholism - that's because I move a lot and don't keep up with people. I know I'm in a place where I rely on him too much for my social life and I do need to change it. Baby steps, starting with alanon and a yoga class and a book group. Thank you for your support x
MizzB said
Sep 1, 2017
Thank you Jerry. That question "what is my part in this" is a good one to contemplate. I know that I don't make him drink. I also know that by not arguing I get some quality of relationship back. I'm not ready to move on yet but the merry go round is not going to work when I'm back at work. I'm too scared about how to look after Mabel on my own with my job (dog sitter not an option - she seems like an accepting soul... but she doesn't accept strangers!). SHe is very good at picking up when he's been drinking as she looks at me for reassurance to make sure it's ok that he's stroking her. So I'm currently in limbo. Feeling like I"m wasting my life on a relationship that will never make me happy, but not sure if being alone is going to make me happier (I'm not good on my own, I get very lonely).
Anger is a strange emotion. I do feel a lot of anger but I've had depression and therapy and I have done a lot of research into psychology so I feel like anger isn't a productive emotion. Getting angry with him only makes me angry so I don't do that. Being angry at myself don't work so I don't do that (much). So I rationalise. Convince myself being angry is a negative emotion and then I'm calm. But it's still there even if I don't acknowledge and then gets taken out on a misbehaving child. I also don't really being in complaining if I'm not prepared to do something about it. Sometimes all the psychology makes my brain hurt and I want to stop thinking and just feel. Just be.
SO essentially I come her and go to meetings and try to make some sense out of my confused thoughts and wonder what it will take to make the move. I already have told people my intention was to get him to move out by the end of summer but that hasn't happened. I'm going to lose the respect of the people I do have left by not making this change - not that I'm worried about that - they don't know what it's like. I jsut don't want them to stop listening as my colleague who I rant to is my daily freedom from all the brainthoughts!
I will find the answers. ANd thank you for your support, for listening. I'm off to give little Mabel a cuddle now!
pinkchip said
Sep 1, 2017
You are in a good starting spot. Truly. And for you and the sake of alanon, I don't care about you "making it easy for him" or not. I want you to look after you. Make it easy for YOU! I want you to enjoy open and honest relationships with YOUR supports and not just spread out suffering with his. You are numero uno! Take care of you 1st!
Baby steps are good though. Stay the course. Keep checking in with us and alanon in general.
pinkchip said
Sep 1, 2017
I also get lonely on my own, but alanon did help me with that sooo much. I have tools for that. It is ok and I can enjoy it, even though I prefer company. It has gone from a deep fear of being alone to just a preference to be around others mostly. That change was enough for me to set better boundaries though.
gratefulforafuture said
Sep 2, 2017
Pinkchip, this is an extraordinarily helpful comment for me. Keeping it close. Thank you!
Lyne said
Sep 2, 2017
Greetings-Well I relate to your share because I accepted being treated like garbage for about 12 years . 12 years! And that happened because I was so overwhelmed with feeling horrible that I didn't know what to do. I started Alanon. Fast forward 4 years, I am in much better shape mentally . I am no longer a doormat and I have become in charge of me! It took a while to learn that I was not going to be taught how to control and change my A, but I am learning how to control and change myself. And wow, what a difference. It's not that things will ever be perfect, and in fact we have a slogan, Progress not Perfection. Alanon has helped me enjoy my life no matter what my A is doing. And I don't feel lonely anymore. There are people, family, my 2 dogs, and other things I enjoy. I work hard not to be codependent on my A for my happiness, because all I did was feel miserable all the time. I have to set the tone for my reality. It's a lot of hard work, but for me, it's all been worth it. Keep coming back, Lyne
I had an ok holiday. ABF doesn't drink when he's with me, he's not even tempted. We didn't talk about anything but I feel it was ok to Ostrich for a bit. We talked when we got back. He wants to keep everything fun and light because if home is going to just be arguments he's just going to want to drink after a tough day at work he says. So I keep things fun and light as I'm still on holiday from work. I go back next week.
And now after a positive week back at work for him he has had to work late - some disaster and he won't be home til 2am. And he had to fire someone. He's never managed a late working night without drinking and his messages give clues that he has probably been drinking. So I'm alone, with the dog again. And I'm worried about next week. I can deal with him when I'm not working, but on Monday I go back to 14-16 hour days (not all in the office) and highly stressful work conditions and looking after my dog too. I've done a year of this and it almost killed me. Certainly our relationship is highly damaged. I can't do another year of it. I won't survive.
And what I'm left struggling with - why does he get to dictate when we argue/when I air my issues with the situation? Why does he get to say we keep things light? Why does he get to avoid the conversation about our lack of intimacy? Why am I left bottling my emotions? I don't like arguing but I hate boiling over with unsaid resentments. When did he become the centre in the universe? I need to take time to put me back in the middle but with work and the dog I don't know how to do that.
Get to the meetings. Talk things through. Share. Keep coming back.
I personally think it's healthy not to pick everything apart daily. It can feel like my brain has gone through an egg scrambler and everyone really needs to have a good healthy dose of fun. There is a time and a place to have the serious conversations. I also know from my past experience .. issues have to be addressed and my experience or lack of addressing anything did not help in my own situation. I know as confrontational as I could be .. I lacked the ability to actually have a conversation about an issue. Now I can swing either way .. now it's what is best for the situation .. and you can have a completely rational conversation and it's confrontation. So that's positive or negative kind of deal what I'm referring to. Confrontation doesn't need to be scary or loud.
I think the A becomes to the center of the universe or at least in my world because I lacked the ability to say I'm not ok with that out of fear or shame or just it was easier to avoid. I didn't want him to go and drink. I didn't want to be at fault. Really we never fought until I started taking a stand and even then it was me being more of a shrew and him not saying a word. LOL .. oi. I absolutely allowed that situation to take place and undoing the power imbalance I did not know where to begin and I needed a present partner to undo all of it.
I started to learn to take my power back and one of those issues with power was .. this is uncomfortable .. we need to talk about it. My XAH the best way to describe it was like talking to a fence post .. and it's a shame however talking to a fence post is just not how relationships are conducted. The lights were on and no one was home. Which again is how he learned to survive the relationship which is sad.
Unfortunately I know this was true again for my own situation there was just to much water under the bridge and we were both drowning .. I had to make the moral/ethical decision to save myself (which included my kids) I just couldn't live like that anymore.
It sounds like you are trying to work through things that the sponsorship will help a great deal .. the real meat and potatoes of dealing with different issues, practicing how to have those conversations in a safe environment this is all a good thing.
Keep doing you .. sounds like you had a nice time on vacation and the minutia of life is always waiting because it's that little stuff that never really goes away.
Hugs S :)
However after a bad year, and a tough summer, I think there is a lot of damage done to the relationship and if he's drinking again after two weeks off, all the words in the world don't change the situation that I find myself in - alone again on a Friday night doing all the care of the dog. And words need to become actions or I'll take the action.
Hugs S :)
He often comes back days later and says, "When you said.................................did you mean................................? Or I think I understand now - you said............................ He and I just process differently and in different intervals.
I too have always over-thought most things. Having a good sponsor has really, really helped me with this too. Much of my over-process was actually projecting - which leads me to a circle-jerk in my mind.
Breathe in and do you. The answers will come - they always do - just not always when we think we need them to!! (((Hugs))) - glad your holiday was a nice break!!
He's come home drunk.
I'm still breathing
And my kitchen is clean. I always clean when I get stressed. The flat's been a mess since I got back - I guess I needed this to get it back in order!!
That probably sounds harsh and I don't mean it to so let me clarify that I am a recovering alcoholic and I am a director of a rehab also. So my feedback is basically from a place of "I understand and speak selfish, emotionally crippled, narcissistic alcoholic because I was one and I deal with them in heaping doses daily."
Loved ones of alcoholics put up with sooo much crap and there are some sensible reasons. In early stages of a relationship with an alcoholic, they are so charming and flattering and fun. They present like you are the best thing in their life and will often say that. The loved one gets to thinking they really can influence, fix, and help the alcoholic with their "tragic problem" that nobody else "gets" but special you who is loyal and doesn't shaft them like everyone else in the world.
So...I read you quoting your ABF and was like "Wow...all the same BS excuses and sick rationalizations for thoughtless selfish behavior that ALL alcoholics engage in!" ALL his "reasons" for drinking or not are total manipulation and BS...probably not purposeful on his part, but not OK either. Why does he do this? Because that is alcoholism and he is an alcoholic. Period. Look no further.
Alanon will have you turning the attention on you so that whether or not you stay together, his alcoholism doesn't wreck you, dictate so much of your emotions and well being, diminish your self worth, and make you feel so compromised about your relationship boundaries/values. It will help you hop of this merry go round of trying to make sense of and affect or predict what an insane, uncontrollable and unpredictable alcoholic will do. That is exhausting! There IS help and hope. You are not alone!
Aloha Sweet Sister and Thank you and sorry with that post...I read and my head starts to sing the song Memories Light the Corners of my mind which is okay because I get the memories and not the angst. I remember getting the answer to the same question you ask regarding my alcoholic/addict wife when we were doing our parts in the disease and then I had a sponsor and therapist in the VA who asked me the question and taught me how to ask the question of myself..."What is my part in it"? That is a rocket science question which required me to get out of the emotional trauma and to QTIP and just objectively find my part in the situation. Arrrrgh!! That was why I was crazy I didn't know the part to stop and change as I was a dumb as a stick with it. My actions and reactions were insane which threatened my life my own existence and hers. If the definition of Sanity was the continuous and orderly process of thought...my definition was running with the substitute DIS-orderly. What was my part in it? I was using the wrong thoughts and didn't even know how to define the right ones. Thank God for the fellowship of the AFG and my sponsor and my therapist.
I once declared to my therapist after he asked me how I felt about a drama/trauma event hit me that "I felt like Shit"!!! and he asked me "So you feel like a warm, smelly, pile of dog poop in your front yard? I looked at him as if he was insane and deaf and asked him "What are you saying"? and then answered that question with the same mind I described the problem with...I got the picture and it wasn't about the dog poop and about me and how I was seeing and describing the events of my problems. That afternoon I learned how to say..."I am angry about it"!! and loved the change. What is my part in it.
I get the consequences from how I do what I do and not anyone else. I love reminding my self of that even now at this time because I always have choices with desires almost at the same time on how I want my life to go. I hear that from you and I know what it feels like.....and I love Mable also. She shows a loving accepting spirit...Give her a hug from Hilo for me and have one for yourself. ((((hugs))))
How do you want this to come out for you and what are you willing to do to get that.
-- Edited by Jerry F on Friday 1st of September 2017 07:41:09 PM
Thank you PinkChip. It doesn't sound harsh. It's what I believe. I know I am making it easy for him. Far too easy for him. I'm currently trying to work with his mother as well because I shouldn't have to suffer this alone - and I can't tell my own parents, they'd worry too much. And that may sound harsh but I don't feel that his mum should be in the dark about anything because if I end it, he won't have a place of denial to hide in. I'm trying to get back to me. I used to go to the gym a lot - my dog stops me doing that now. I have lost most of my friends - but that isn't to do with the alcoholism - that's because I move a lot and don't keep up with people. I know I'm in a place where I rely on him too much for my social life and I do need to change it. Baby steps, starting with alanon and a yoga class and a book group. Thank you for your support x
Thank you Jerry. That question "what is my part in this" is a good one to contemplate. I know that I don't make him drink. I also know that by not arguing I get some quality of relationship back. I'm not ready to move on yet but the merry go round is not going to work when I'm back at work. I'm too scared about how to look after Mabel on my own with my job (dog sitter not an option - she seems like an accepting soul... but she doesn't accept strangers!). SHe is very good at picking up when he's been drinking as she looks at me for reassurance to make sure it's ok that he's stroking her. So I'm currently in limbo. Feeling like I"m wasting my life on a relationship that will never make me happy, but not sure if being alone is going to make me happier (I'm not good on my own, I get very lonely).
Anger is a strange emotion. I do feel a lot of anger but I've had depression and therapy and I have done a lot of research into psychology so I feel like anger isn't a productive emotion. Getting angry with him only makes me angry so I don't do that. Being angry at myself don't work so I don't do that (much). So I rationalise. Convince myself being angry is a negative emotion and then I'm calm. But it's still there even if I don't acknowledge and then gets taken out on a misbehaving child. I also don't really being in complaining if I'm not prepared to do something about it. Sometimes all the psychology makes my brain hurt and I want to stop thinking and just feel. Just be.
SO essentially I come her and go to meetings and try to make some sense out of my confused thoughts and wonder what it will take to make the move. I already have told people my intention was to get him to move out by the end of summer but that hasn't happened. I'm going to lose the respect of the people I do have left by not making this change - not that I'm worried about that - they don't know what it's like. I jsut don't want them to stop listening as my colleague who I rant to is my daily freedom from all the brainthoughts!
I will find the answers. ANd thank you for your support, for listening. I'm off to give little Mabel a cuddle now!
Baby steps are good though. Stay the course. Keep checking in with us and alanon in general.
Pinkchip, this is an extraordinarily helpful comment for me. Keeping it close. Thank you!