Well, after only 1 day back at the house, I made the move to live separately from my AH. I am not sure why I thought this could be smooth... probably b/c he was "supposed" to have been in treatment.
Going back and sleeping at the old house just one night just seemed too weird, and I believe was sending AH the wrong signals. At first I said it was because I was so sick (which I am at the moment) that I was leaving to sleep at the other house, but then I had to go get more stuff and I had to tell him that doing this piecemeal does not feel right. Too emotional... for me and I think for him too.
"What? You mean you aren't going to be sleeping here?"
"No, I am sorry."
I saw a flash of anger cross his face, but then acceptance. Later I spoke with his sister who took him to see his doctor and she told me she put her name as emergency contact... so I guess they are moving on too. I am not sure why I feel such emotions for him when I CLEARLY wanted this and needed this. Weird. Anyway, he now has blood pressure & depression/anxiety meds and the doctor is going to start short-term disability. Found out that he does have MediCal for Sept., so there really is no reason he can't go into a treatment facility now!
His sister and I talked about getting the rest of my large stuff out this weekend, and maybe they would take AH on an outing so as to make things easier. Also, she is pushing to have the utilities out of my name and into his. At first I was just going to cancel them... either way, I don't want to be responsible for the bills. She feels it's high time he does stuff for himself and either accepts treatment, or goes and gets a job!! She is so right. But her reason for the transfer in name is because she was seeing little hints yesterday that he may not end up in a "in-center" treatment facility. I also agreed to her perceptions... it seems the drier he becomes, the more he thinks treatment is "unnecessary." And he is adamant of not leaving the house.Once again, another reason why it is good to be out.
My parents also recommended that when I pay the rent in a couple days, include a letter outlining the basics of the separation, and that I will not be responsible for any rent beyond the Sept. payment. They were VERY good landlords to us for 15 years...never raised the rent! I would hate for the disease or husband's inability to take care of simple things make it difficult for them. They said I don't need to go into details of the alcoholism, nor his sister's supposed plans for her adult son and girlfriend to move in... that is for Mitch and his family to discuss with the landlord... not me. They are right too.
As for my 17 year old, I have never seen him happier! That should be all the motivation I need, right? But I don't want to divulge that to my AH when he is asking "Why" questions... so I keep it to me only. I guess I never really knew just how bad my son felt with this kind of dad...even if none of dad's behaviors or drunk shenangans directly impacted son. When someone tells you this is a toxic environment for your children... BELIEVE THEM! Even if there isn't any physical or even emotional abuse. They hear how the spouse treats you. They hate that their parent is MIA for everything. I think he's proud of me for being so strong at the moment... at least I hope so!
So wish me some luck... to get rid of this virus, and for a smooth move-in weekend. I'll try and post after the move in.
Thank you dear MIP family!
hotrod said
Aug 30, 2017
((P&P)) Positive thoughts and prayers on the way. You are handling this difficult situation with great courage-- Great recovery work
Jerry F said
Aug 30, 2017
(((PnP))) you seem well put together...thanks for passing that on so others can feel the spirit of recovery.
mamalioness said
Aug 30, 2017
PnP GREAT program you are showing.......lots of courage and grace......You're gonna do great..yea, its rough at first...learning a new way of life and the fact that your kid is happier, speaks volumes.....I think you are smart, getting financially separated, letting him be responsible for his own care.............HUGS of support
Skorpi said
Aug 31, 2017
(((P&P))) What wonderful progress with the program!
Bo said
Aug 31, 2017
PandP -- the move in, no matter how difficult, frustrating, whatever, will be very freeing. I just went through this in the past month, not to the same extent as you, and different scenario, but it was incredible! It was emotionally freeing, empowering, and just an emotional release, breakthrough and new beginning.
So, he was "supposed" to have been in treatment. Nothing changes if nothing changes. You slept at the old house? I am confused. You were supposed to but didn't?
As far as the piecemeal thing -- so it is not right for you, too emotional, etc. -- and that's for you, and you think him too. Focus on you. There is a lot of him in this, and you don't' need all of it in your head. Don't let him live and be in your head rent-free. You can still see the 'ism's with him -- when he stated you aren't sleeping here. Whether it's a flash, disappointment, acceptance, focus on you. I get that you are still married, legal obligations, etc. -- but there is still a focus on him -- sister, trip to the doctor, ICE contact, BP, anxiety, and so on. OK, you ask about your feelings. Good. Keep the focus there. You are torn on the feelings -- wanting this, but caring. In and out. Off and on. This is very normal in my experience. In my experience, the best way to get a handle on this and keep it in a safe place, is to -- stop trying to figure it out (the "why do I feel this way"), talk to your sponsor, a lot, accept that you feel this way, and then surrender to it. This will allow you to get through it and get past it. Also, get more space and distance from this and from him, both physically and emotionally. This also keeps you in a safe place, in a healthy place. And him too, so that he and his day to day stuff doesn't infiltrate your world. It's detaching -- let it work for you. It works if you work it, LOL.
He may or may not go to rehab. Not to sound harsh -- that is on him right now. You are out of it -- it meaning that entire process. Stay out of it. Mind your own business. I like the outing thing and you getting the rest of your large stuff out. Get it done. For YOU. Also, whatever you have to do -- get the utilities out of your name! If it doesn't happen, cancel them. They can be reconnected, by him, the same day if he wants to. Like one person moving out and another moving in the same or next day. Don't neglect this. Let the sister be right -- it is high-time -- accept treatment or go get a job, and this is not on you now. None of your business. Let it play out and without you being involved, and for a while, without you watching. Space and distance.
His sister is seeing little hints that he may not end up in a treatment facility (in-patient). Yadda, yadda, yadda...the more he thinks treatment is "unnecessary." -- of course!?!?!?! LOL. On top of that, you are moving out, doing what you need to do for you, etc. -- and he is again adamant about not leaving the house?!?!?!? Yes, a great reason for you to be out!
About the lease -- yes, you should right a letter. But you should also formally not re-new, end, terminate, etc., the lease. Yes, notify them that you will not be responsible for any rent beyond the Sept. payment. These are people you had a good relationship with for 15 years -- they never raised the rent! They like and are fond of you! I don't think you have to go into the separation, but you can say that you've moved out, terminate the lease, etc., that you are not responsible, etc., and that if your H is still there, wants to keep the place beyond Sept., etc. -- then he will be responsible. Even if the landlord contacts you and asks what's going on, etc. -- you can tell them then, and not go into too many details. All I said was that my W was going to stay with family for a while, had some issues to take care of, and with work, etc., and all, I just felt I needed to get some space and distance and that I decided to separate for now.
Whatever goes on -- it is on him now. If it ends up on them -- that's on him. I wouldn't like it either, but there is nothing you can do. Yes, it is for them to discuss with the landlord, not YOU.
I am sooooooooo glad your son is happy. That is all the motivation and reason you need. There is a saying in the rooms -- a child should and would rather be from a broken home than live in one. The questions, you'll deal with them...one day at a time. Have awareness around how bad your son felt about all of what happened. Oh yes, this is a very toxic environment for children. Very. Children feel, see, hear, know, have a sense, awareness, etc. -- far much more than we think and realize.
Feel better...take care of yourself...and keep doing what you are doing. You are an inspiration to us...and thank you.
Jaeger said
Aug 31, 2017
P&P,
I'm so happy for you and your son! You sound very strong. I know this process will not be easy but have faith that it will work out. It WILL be emotional, up & down, but I think you will feel the peace very soon. Have you considered consultating a lawyer about the lease? I would hate for a technicality to bite you. You might also ask about your son's college. What steps you need to take so he gets as much financial assistance as possible. I'll be thinking about you this weekend!
Big hugs!
SerenityRUS said
Aug 31, 2017
HUGS PnP,
I know how hard it has been for you to come to this decision and all I can say is GOOD FOR YOU!! This is part of self care laying boundaries knowing what is and is not ok and saying what you mean .. meaning what you say and not saying it mean. It is so good that your SIL is seeing first hand what is going on and is being supportive it makes things as difficult as they are easier.
Keep doing you and yes .. my whole reasoning in terms of what I did next became about what was best for my kids. Every once in a while they have a moment of clarity about the past and just kind of pop off with something about what things had been like. I did not realize what they had seen what they suspected and worse what they thought they knew.
Hugs S :)
Bo said
Aug 31, 2017
I am remembering when I left, what happened with my AW and her family. At a certain point, they felt like I was "dropping out" of the marriage, the involvement in the day to day and so on. I remember once her mother saying to me -- things have to get done, there are things to do on a daily basis, insurance, approvals, phone calls, rehab, the house, bills, packing, and you are nowhere to be found. My response -- at that time as I had not left the house yet, but had just found a place -- was, first, I am paying all the bills. That is my responsibility, my obligation, and I am doing that. There is nothing for anyone else to do regarding that. Second, with regard to everything else -- I have done it all, from the beginning. I've offered all the help that I can offer and now it is up to her whether or not she wants to take it and get help. It appears that you (my MIL), and her, and the rest of the family, want me involved and doing what all of you are doing, day to day, minute to minute, and I've done that for years. I can no longer do that because it is not healthy for me. It is causing me to be unhealthy, and causing me to get sick. I am still here, but I am here in a healthy and supportive way. If my AW does not want to go to rehab and does not want to get better -- that's OK -- sad, but OK. There is nothing I can do about that. I did that for 5 years and learned I can't do anything about it. If you now are making a decision to take up and pick up that right, and do that job, and play that role -- that is your decision.
There is a lot more to it, but I was there in a way that I could be. There came a point where it was no longer "my wife wanted what she wanted, and wanted me to be there in the way she wanted" and "I was not doing what she wanted and would not be there for her in the way she wanted, but I would be there in a healthy and supportive way, a way that was healthy and supportive for me, and what I felt was for her, but safe for me, but according to her was not enough for her" -- and it then went to "it is what it is" and there was no longer a conflict around it. It was like acceptance on her part. She naturally and innately reacted with anger, guilt, manipulation, blame, etc. -- but it was brief, and my job was to "stand my ground" and honor my boundary/decision/well-being/etc. And after the brief, we were able to be OK in certain respects.
For me, I often thought -- not projected -- what if she died. I put myself into those shoes, and felt it. I made it real. The result? I would have no remorse so to speak over what I did. I would have no second thoughts or regrets about what I did, my decisions, etc. I felt as though I did everything I could and would not play the what if game. I was at peace. I was OK. It would be a tragedy...but I would be OK. I would be sad. I would mourn. I would cry and be impacted to severely. But it would not consume me or ruin me or make me sick. I would be OK.
Thanks again -- to everyone -- for posting and sharing your thoughts, perspective and experience.
Iamhere said
Aug 31, 2017
(((PnP))) - you sound really good and I too see incredible program work. Remember always that feelings are not facts, and we really encourage keeping things as simple as possible, one day at a time. Breathe deeply, lean into your program and just trust the process/program that you will be OK!
I've never seen it fail yet - keep doing you.....you're rocking it! I am sending prayers and positive thoughts also sweetie!
PosiesandPuppies said
Aug 31, 2017
I love you all!
I would address everyone, but I am really sick with a virus, so keeping online stuff to a minimum. I am not "No Contact" but I only respond to his emails... and there haven't been a lot. Mostly about logistics for Sat.
The lease is now a month to month (we've been there sooooo long!), so I think I'll be covered with the letter.
I really appreciated all the support... just the reminders that I AM strong, that I CAN do this keeps me from wallowing in my emotions. I am not sad that I left... far from it. But I am sad that he's having to feel the repercussions of this disease... I know, not my problem now!
Got a bunch of boxes and paper from a friend, then went to post office and put in an official change of address! Woot!
Today was the first day back to work since getting so sick on Monday, and you know, it was completely freeing to be able to drive up the street not having to worry about what kind of fire I was going to have to put out, or which spouse I was going to have to interact with. Amazing!
It is currently 108 degrees here, so going to go cool off!
Iamhere said
Aug 31, 2017
(((PnP))) - feel better soon....my cousin's had a cold/virus/cough stuff for a couple weeks now and my AH has had it for about 5 days! Rest when you can - warm weather!!!
PosiesandPuppies said
Sep 1, 2017
Thanks, Iamhere! I absolutely HATE being sick in the heat... and tomorrow is supposed to be 114 degrees with high humidity! Ugh! I can't wait for Fall!!
gratefulforafuture said
Sep 1, 2017
PosiesandPuppies,
We must be living the same life! A life with a positive joyful future ahead of us. Having just been through this (and really still going through it) I understand all the conflicting feelings. I hope you feel better soon and will have some peace.
Well, after only 1 day back at the house, I made the move to live separately from my AH. I am not sure why I thought this could be smooth... probably b/c he was "supposed" to have been in treatment.
Going back and sleeping at the old house just one night just seemed too weird, and I believe was sending AH the wrong signals. At first I said it was because I was so sick (which I am at the moment) that I was leaving to sleep at the other house, but then I had to go get more stuff and I had to tell him that doing this piecemeal does not feel right. Too emotional... for me and I think for him too.
"What? You mean you aren't going to be sleeping here?"
"No, I am sorry."
I saw a flash of anger cross his face, but then acceptance. Later I spoke with his sister who took him to see his doctor and she told me she put her name as emergency contact... so I guess they are moving on too. I am not sure why I feel such emotions for him when I CLEARLY wanted this and needed this. Weird. Anyway, he now has blood pressure & depression/anxiety meds and the doctor is going to start short-term disability. Found out that he does have MediCal for Sept., so there really is no reason he can't go into a treatment facility now!
His sister and I talked about getting the rest of my large stuff out this weekend, and maybe they would take AH on an outing so as to make things easier. Also, she is pushing to have the utilities out of my name and into his. At first I was just going to cancel them... either way, I don't want to be responsible for the bills. She feels it's high time he does stuff for himself and either accepts treatment, or goes and gets a job!! She is so right. But her reason for the transfer in name is because she was seeing little hints yesterday that he may not end up in a "in-center" treatment facility. I also agreed to her perceptions... it seems the drier he becomes, the more he thinks treatment is "unnecessary." And he is adamant of not leaving the house.Once again, another reason why it is good to be out.
My parents also recommended that when I pay the rent in a couple days, include a letter outlining the basics of the separation, and that I will not be responsible for any rent beyond the Sept. payment. They were VERY good landlords to us for 15 years...never raised the rent! I would hate for the disease or husband's inability to take care of simple things make it difficult for them. They said I don't need to go into details of the alcoholism, nor his sister's supposed plans for her adult son and girlfriend to move in... that is for Mitch and his family to discuss with the landlord... not me. They are right too.
As for my 17 year old, I have never seen him happier! That should be all the motivation I need, right? But I don't want to divulge that to my AH when he is asking "Why" questions... so I keep it to me only. I guess I never really knew just how bad my son felt with this kind of dad...even if none of dad's behaviors or drunk shenangans directly impacted son. When someone tells you this is a toxic environment for your children... BELIEVE THEM! Even if there isn't any physical or even emotional abuse. They hear how the spouse treats you. They hate that their parent is MIA for everything. I think he's proud of me for being so strong at the moment... at least I hope so!
So wish me some luck... to get rid of this virus, and for a smooth move-in weekend. I'll try and post after the move in.
Thank you dear MIP family!
(((PnP))) you seem well put together...thanks for passing that on so others can feel the spirit of recovery.
PnP GREAT program you are showing.......lots of courage and grace......You're gonna do great..yea, its rough at first...learning a new way of life and the fact that your kid is happier, speaks volumes.....I think you are smart, getting financially separated, letting him be responsible for his own care.............HUGS of support
So, he was "supposed" to have been in treatment. Nothing changes if nothing changes. You slept at the old house? I am confused. You were supposed to but didn't?
As far as the piecemeal thing -- so it is not right for you, too emotional, etc. -- and that's for you, and you think him too. Focus on you. There is a lot of him in this, and you don't' need all of it in your head. Don't let him live and be in your head rent-free. You can still see the 'ism's with him -- when he stated you aren't sleeping here. Whether it's a flash, disappointment, acceptance, focus on you. I get that you are still married, legal obligations, etc. -- but there is still a focus on him -- sister, trip to the doctor, ICE contact, BP, anxiety, and so on. OK, you ask about your feelings. Good. Keep the focus there. You are torn on the feelings -- wanting this, but caring. In and out. Off and on. This is very normal in my experience. In my experience, the best way to get a handle on this and keep it in a safe place, is to -- stop trying to figure it out (the "why do I feel this way"), talk to your sponsor, a lot, accept that you feel this way, and then surrender to it. This will allow you to get through it and get past it. Also, get more space and distance from this and from him, both physically and emotionally. This also keeps you in a safe place, in a healthy place. And him too, so that he and his day to day stuff doesn't infiltrate your world. It's detaching -- let it work for you. It works if you work it, LOL.
He may or may not go to rehab. Not to sound harsh -- that is on him right now. You are out of it -- it meaning that entire process. Stay out of it. Mind your own business. I like the outing thing and you getting the rest of your large stuff out. Get it done. For YOU. Also, whatever you have to do -- get the utilities out of your name! If it doesn't happen, cancel them. They can be reconnected, by him, the same day if he wants to. Like one person moving out and another moving in the same or next day. Don't neglect this. Let the sister be right -- it is high-time -- accept treatment or go get a job, and this is not on you now. None of your business. Let it play out and without you being involved, and for a while, without you watching. Space and distance.
His sister is seeing little hints that he may not end up in a treatment facility (in-patient). Yadda, yadda, yadda...the more he thinks treatment is "unnecessary." -- of course!?!?!?! LOL. On top of that, you are moving out, doing what you need to do for you, etc. -- and he is again adamant about not leaving the house?!?!?!? Yes, a great reason for you to be out!
About the lease -- yes, you should right a letter. But you should also formally not re-new, end, terminate, etc., the lease. Yes, notify them that you will not be responsible for any rent beyond the Sept. payment. These are people you had a good relationship with for 15 years -- they never raised the rent! They like and are fond of you! I don't think you have to go into the separation, but you can say that you've moved out, terminate the lease, etc., that you are not responsible, etc., and that if your H is still there, wants to keep the place beyond Sept., etc. -- then he will be responsible. Even if the landlord contacts you and asks what's going on, etc. -- you can tell them then, and not go into too many details. All I said was that my W was going to stay with family for a while, had some issues to take care of, and with work, etc., and all, I just felt I needed to get some space and distance and that I decided to separate for now.
Whatever goes on -- it is on him now. If it ends up on them -- that's on him. I wouldn't like it either, but there is nothing you can do. Yes, it is for them to discuss with the landlord, not YOU.
I am sooooooooo glad your son is happy. That is all the motivation and reason you need. There is a saying in the rooms -- a child should and would rather be from a broken home than live in one. The questions, you'll deal with them...one day at a time. Have awareness around how bad your son felt about all of what happened. Oh yes, this is a very toxic environment for children. Very. Children feel, see, hear, know, have a sense, awareness, etc. -- far much more than we think and realize.
Feel better...take care of yourself...and keep doing what you are doing. You are an inspiration to us...and thank you.
I'm so happy for you and your son! You sound very strong. I know this process will not be easy but have faith that it will work out. It WILL be emotional, up & down, but I think you will feel the peace very soon. Have you considered consultating a lawyer about the lease? I would hate for a technicality to bite you. You might also ask about your son's college. What steps you need to take so he gets as much financial assistance as possible. I'll be thinking about you this weekend!
Big hugs!
I know how hard it has been for you to come to this decision and all I can say is GOOD FOR YOU!! This is part of self care laying boundaries knowing what is and is not ok and saying what you mean .. meaning what you say and not saying it mean. It is so good that your SIL is seeing first hand what is going on and is being supportive it makes things as difficult as they are easier.
Keep doing you and yes .. my whole reasoning in terms of what I did next became about what was best for my kids. Every once in a while they have a moment of clarity about the past and just kind of pop off with something about what things had been like. I did not realize what they had seen what they suspected and worse what they thought they knew.
Hugs S :)
There is a lot more to it, but I was there in a way that I could be. There came a point where it was no longer "my wife wanted what she wanted, and wanted me to be there in the way she wanted" and "I was not doing what she wanted and would not be there for her in the way she wanted, but I would be there in a healthy and supportive way, a way that was healthy and supportive for me, and what I felt was for her, but safe for me, but according to her was not enough for her" -- and it then went to "it is what it is" and there was no longer a conflict around it. It was like acceptance on her part. She naturally and innately reacted with anger, guilt, manipulation, blame, etc. -- but it was brief, and my job was to "stand my ground" and honor my boundary/decision/well-being/etc. And after the brief, we were able to be OK in certain respects.
For me, I often thought -- not projected -- what if she died. I put myself into those shoes, and felt it. I made it real. The result? I would have no remorse so to speak over what I did. I would have no second thoughts or regrets about what I did, my decisions, etc. I felt as though I did everything I could and would not play the what if game. I was at peace. I was OK. It would be a tragedy...but I would be OK. I would be sad. I would mourn. I would cry and be impacted to severely. But it would not consume me or ruin me or make me sick. I would be OK.
Thanks again -- to everyone -- for posting and sharing your thoughts, perspective and experience.
I've never seen it fail yet - keep doing you.....you're rocking it! I am sending prayers and positive thoughts also sweetie!
I would address everyone, but I am really sick with a virus, so keeping online stuff to a minimum. I am not "No Contact" but I only respond to his emails... and there haven't been a lot. Mostly about logistics for Sat.
The lease is now a month to month (we've been there sooooo long!), so I think I'll be covered with the letter.
I really appreciated all the support... just the reminders that I AM strong, that I CAN do this keeps me from wallowing in my emotions. I am not sad that I left... far from it. But I am sad that he's having to feel the repercussions of this disease... I know, not my problem now!
Got a bunch of boxes and paper from a friend, then went to post office and put in an official change of address! Woot!
Today was the first day back to work since getting so sick on Monday, and you know, it was completely freeing to be able to drive up the street not having to worry about what kind of fire I was going to have to put out, or which spouse I was going to have to interact with. Amazing!
It is currently 108 degrees here, so going to go cool off!
We must be living the same life! A life with a positive joyful future ahead of us. Having just been through this (and really still going through it) I understand all the conflicting feelings. I hope you feel better soon and will have some peace.
Best wishes, Beth