Hi everyone- just need to vent a little. My AH & I are in marriage counseling. He's desperately unhappy and depressed (surprise!) and I truly want to be support and loving. But-I'm starting to wonder if I'm stuck on step one and thinking I can do something to fix him. Like maybe he'll wake up & smell the coffee. Therapist is great, has confronted AH several times about his alcoholism, but each week AH is like a broken record. He's unhappy with his whole life and he blames our marriage- thus me- for all his trouble. I am learning to detach with love but boy is it hard to hear that every week. And I'm starting to wonder what the point is. AH obviously won't change until he wants to and I don't know that I want to stay around someone who can't seem to love me back. We've been together 20 year, married 17, 3 kids who are still at home, and splitting up would be a logistical nightmare. I don't know what's best for the kids but I'm starting to feel that divorce would be best for me. guess I just needed to share- just sitting with the situation odat
hotrod said
Aug 24, 2017
Hello Beth , I too found that living with the disease of alcoholism (without the support of alanon) was like banging your head against the wall. Alanon face to face meetings helped me to accept the simple fact that alcoholism was a 3 fold, chronic disease over which I was powerless and that as the result of living with the insanity of the disease, i developed negative coping tools that did not serve me.
Attending alanon face to face meetings provided me with the support i needed and new tools to live by so that my self esteem returned and I was able to detach from the insanity, respond in a constructive manner to life and appreciate all the goodness around me. Living one day at a time, responding to life with courage, serenity and wisdom helped me to keep showing up regardless of the insanity of this disease
.\Please keep coming back and do search out alanon meetings in your community
Iamhere said
Aug 24, 2017
Hey Beth......thanks for your share! I can so relate - we (as a family and as a couple) tried therapy many times. I came to believe that therapy is very much like recovery - you get out what you put in and if we are not willing to be honest and open, it's a waste of time/energy/emotions.
I was able to move beyond the disease, the diseased and the insanity by embracing the Al-Anon program and working the steps. Things are way far from perfect and my guys all have bouts of mild depression but I now know that I am powerless over them, that and if they decide to seek help/treatment or not.
It's perfectly OK to be at Step One....I go back there often as I view it as the freedom step - reminding me always (daily) that I truly am powerless over people, places and things yet I can be a better version of me if I just remain true to me. I too encourage you to keep coming back and lean into Al-Anon locally - there is hope and help in recovery!!
_bunny_ said
Aug 24, 2017
((BethBethBeth)) thank you for sharing, I love your awareness and I too find sharing and getting it out to be much more beneficial than banging my head off a brick wall. I'm reminded of the saying "keep coming back". For me sharing and listening to the experiences of others was what really got me to accept the fact that my life had spun out of control and that my repeated attempts to manage the situation were only hurting myself and those around me. It was through the sharing of others that I could witness the amazing calm and serenity that they had, and that I wanted, and in time I could truly admit how powerless I was and that gave me tons of hope :)
Mattie said
Aug 24, 2017
My experience is that if an alcoholic who's not in recovery goes into relationship therapy, it's pointless. Because the alcoholism disrupts everything and makes for insanity, and change isn't possible. One of the therapists we saw finally made this point too. (The others were clueless about alcoholism, and would say things like, "He says it isn't a problem, so why would you feel it's a problem?" And we'd go in circles after that. Or "He says he'll quit next week, so let's move on to other topics." I imagine you can see why that didn't work out.)
However, sometimes you have to go into therapy to exhaust that possibility and know that it won't work.
I don't think I've ever seen kids who are happy about being in an alcoholic family. Their first choice is probably that he would stop drinking. If only. Their second choice is probably a peaceful household. That's just from my experience knowing alcoholic families and my experience growing up in a dysfunctional family.
a4l said
Aug 24, 2017
Sending you support on your journey.
It sounds like you're awakening, which for me has always been the start of good things. Logistics have a way of working themselves out when we do our part I've found. Finding out what may be available, not necessarily acting on it but knowing what's there is a quietly empowering action. Kids in my experience benefit from strong role models. Actually, I think we benefit as human beings from all our experiences but where alcoholism is involved, having someone in recovery, like you are, whether you stay or go, provides an incomparable frame of reference for whatever comes. So you just keep on keeping on! Hugs.
mamalioness said
Aug 24, 2017
Ohh I so agree with what Mattie says...if AH goes into therapy and hes NOT working an AA program and steps, et al, its useless....I have heard this from countless of recovery mates.....the disease messes up their thinking and they really can't respond to therapy...they can con their way around a therapist, but not a bunch of recovering alkies who have been there done that, they would catch on to his BS in a heartbeat and out him about it......if I were you, I would just keep working on me, let him do what hes gotta do, get a sponsor, go to meets, work the steps and dn't do anything rash like leaving or anything until you have had some good ole Al-anon under your belt, and your thinking is sharper.....then if you still want to leave?? hey!!! for me, it was a fact that life was too short and mine was running out as I was in my 50's when I split from AH#2 so i left.....but really....I would get some strong step work and meetings under me before I did anything that serious......then you will really know if it is over or worth fighting for............hang in there.......
PosiesandPuppies said
Aug 25, 2017
Hang in there, Beth! Work on you and what you need. For my ESH, I was in marriage therapy for years... eventually our therapist refused to see my husband as his addiction caused him to lie over and over... even to her! But she was well versed in treating people for addiction issues as well as a couples therapist. So yea, they can smell the BS a mile away - most therapists who do not have this background can be fooled.
The other share is that I have a child too at home. Both times he knew something was going on with dad even before I told him. The first time he was 10 so I gave him the appropriate information and hope. Now he is 17, and I was completely honest with what was going on, the Al-Anon reasoning behind why alcoholics do what they do, and my honest feelings of what should be our next step. He told me that this time is a little easier b/c he knows and can understand the dynamics... but his relationship with his father is forever altered. And if you speak to just about any adult child of an alcoholic, they will probably tell you that having a peaceful/stable home life is more important than whether their parents were divorced/separated.
Seek out meetings. Read here. Get support from people who know what alcoholics do (many people don't).
Sending you Peace & Light.
Bo said
Aug 25, 2017
Hi Beth -- oh can I so relate. In short, my AW, both in and out of counselling constantly said that she drank because she was so unhappy and depressed. Yes, I was blamed for all of it. What a shock. That's a new one, right? LOL. Anyway, at a certain point the discussions almost became that the drinking was acceptable and all we should focus on was that she was unhappy and depressed, so, that's the problem, and I was the problem, and not the drinking. So the drinking was not really an issue. Broken record. The bottom line -- according to the therapist, her doctor, and other professionals -- was that this was her reasoning and "excuse" not to change...because she wanted what she wanted and wanted to keep drinking. Nothing changes if nothing changes.
More to follow...have to run into a biz meeting.
-- Edited by Bo on Friday 25th of August 2017 10:49:33 AM
-- Edited by Bo on Friday 25th of August 2017 10:49:55 AM
gratefulforafuture said
Aug 25, 2017
Beth, Beth, Beth,
My name is Beth too! Is this karma? I was exactly where you are for many years. We were together for 30 years and married for 27. We have three kids and one is still in high school. My experience was exactly like what you describe: untreated depression, active alcoholism... This led to many years of being blamed for everything that was wrong. Most of the time I knew it was so ridiculous that I could actually brush it off. But as time wore on I realized that I was actually the ultimate enabler. I was keeping the "happy" face on the family, doing everything with/for the kids, protecting his parents from the truth, and dying little by little. I didn't want to see people because I didn't want them to know the truth and I also didn't know how he would behave in a social situation. I was getting increasingly isolated and it was my own doing!
I felt paralyzed by trying to figure out what was best for my youngest child. Should she stay in her childhood home? Should we keep up the appearance of an intact family? Would she blame me if I tried to get her to move out with me? Would she come? The only blessing of pure misery is that it made me act when all the other self messages are paralyzing me. Also, I did come to the conclusion that my child needed a happy, safe place to come home to every day.
I now live in an apartment with my youngest and my dog. My husband fell apart as soon as I left. It was terribly sad. Of course, he sees that all that blaming was untrue and part of his illness. He now believes that I was the only good thing in his life. I am not sure that is true either. I am new to alanon and am somewhere in step 2. Therefore, I do not have the wisdom and experience that many others on this message board have gained. However, I do try to live by the mantra "Everything you want is on the other side of fear" and push forward to a joyful, healthy life.
As others here say, take what you like and leave the rest. But know that there are people who understand and send you loving thoughts through the internet.:)
Freetime said
Aug 25, 2017
Hello Beth, I remember what it's like to feel stuck and despairing and fearful that I would be in this terrible state forever, when I seemed to be beating my head on that brick wall.
I hope you don't mind me sharing a joke that I heard when I was a kid. Man #1 is walking down the street and sees Man #2 beating his head on a brick wall. Man #1: "Why are you beating your head on the wall?" Man #2: "Because it feels so good when I stop."
Once I got a bit further in Al-Anon, I was able to see the humor in my own behavior. I wouldn't have as much gratitude for the good in my life now, if I hadn't been through the painful times in the past.
Bo said
Aug 25, 2017
So, where was I? LOL. This was one thing that really caused me tremendous anxiety and struggle. It was like a never ending and never changing circle and cycle. She was unhappy and depressed, she was unhappy with me, she blamed me and our marriage for her depression and unhappiness, and she said this over and over and over again. So this is why she drinks -- and she always made it out like her drinking was OK, and everyone should be focusing on the real problem -- because drinking was not a real problem.
I was not going to be OK with the drinking. It was devastating. I felt that my AW was deflecting and coming up with every possible way to not only deflect away from her drinking, but also to make her drinking OK. She had all the proof too. LOL.
One of the things I asked myself was -- if nothing changed -- is this the way I want to live the rest of my life? Is this the life I want to live, moving forward, for the rest of my life? Now, there could be a lot in and around that type of question. I didn't simply answer it and leave. But it certainly got me objectivity. It took me out of denial, conjecture, excuses, justification, fantasy, etc.
Jerry F said
Aug 25, 2017
Aloha Beth...sorry you are experiencing what you are and what he is. Seems like he is taking the easy way out and is not confronting his own thinking. That sucks!!! My sponsor taught me a great question when I use to do that whiney stuff myself and when he asked it; it would break into my own habit of blaming and not taking responsibility for how things were going for me. I would whine about people, places and things as the cause of my problems and then he would ask me, "Could you be wrong"? Don knew that my mind entertained questions and most always looked for answers and so the question has always hooked with me. "Could I be wrong"? Well could I?
When your husband traps himself with blaming other people, places and things...ask him that question and then shut up and leave him with it. Keep coming back ((((hugs))))
BethBethBeth said
Aug 25, 2017
Thank you so much everyone for your shares. I'm learning
step one ever so slowly but al anon has helped me so much already. The great thing about our therapist is he tells my husband every session "you are an alcoholic" and he does call him on the BS. Whether AH decides to get into recovery or continue to blame all his unhappiness on me is yet to be seen. I know what my choice will be if his choice is to continue drinking.
mamalioness said
Aug 27, 2017
(((((((((((((Jerry)))))))))) I love your share......"Could I be wrong???" wow!!! that is something I need to ask me alot when I feel "put out" by someone....Could I be wrong??? because I, too, still, at times, whine about people, places and things....I catch it..and question me about it, but sometimes it takes a while for me to "get honest" with me...................
Hi everyone- just need to vent a little. My AH & I are in marriage counseling. He's desperately unhappy and depressed (surprise!) and I truly want to be support and loving. But-I'm starting to wonder if I'm stuck on step one and thinking I can do something to fix him. Like maybe he'll wake up & smell the coffee. Therapist is great, has confronted AH several times about his alcoholism, but each week AH is like a broken record. He's unhappy with his whole life and he blames our marriage- thus me- for all his trouble. I am learning to detach with love but boy is it hard to hear that every week. And I'm starting to wonder what the point is. AH obviously won't change until he wants to and I don't know that I want to stay around someone who can't seem to love me back. We've been together 20 year, married 17, 3 kids who are still at home, and splitting up would be a logistical nightmare. I don't know what's best for the kids but I'm starting to feel that divorce would be best for me. guess I just needed to share- just sitting with the situation odat
Hello Beth , I too found that living with the disease of alcoholism (without the support of alanon) was like banging your head against the wall. Alanon face to face meetings helped me to accept the simple fact that alcoholism was a 3 fold, chronic disease over which I was powerless and that as the result of living with the insanity of the disease, i developed negative coping tools that did not serve me.
Attending alanon face to face meetings provided me with the support i needed and new tools to live by so that my self esteem returned and I was able to detach from the insanity, respond in a constructive manner to life and appreciate all the goodness around me. Living one day at a time, responding to life with courage, serenity and wisdom helped me to keep showing up regardless of the insanity of this disease
.\Please keep coming back and do search out alanon meetings in your community
I was able to move beyond the disease, the diseased and the insanity by embracing the Al-Anon program and working the steps. Things are way far from perfect and my guys all have bouts of mild depression but I now know that I am powerless over them, that and if they decide to seek help/treatment or not.
It's perfectly OK to be at Step One....I go back there often as I view it as the freedom step - reminding me always (daily) that I truly am powerless over people, places and things yet I can be a better version of me if I just remain true to me. I too encourage you to keep coming back and lean into Al-Anon locally - there is hope and help in recovery!!
My experience is that if an alcoholic who's not in recovery goes into relationship therapy, it's pointless. Because the alcoholism disrupts everything and makes for insanity, and change isn't possible. One of the therapists we saw finally made this point too. (The others were clueless about alcoholism, and would say things like, "He says it isn't a problem, so why would you feel it's a problem?" And we'd go in circles after that. Or "He says he'll quit next week, so let's move on to other topics." I imagine you can see why that didn't work out.)
However, sometimes you have to go into therapy to exhaust that possibility and know that it won't work.
I don't think I've ever seen kids who are happy about being in an alcoholic family. Their first choice is probably that he would stop drinking. If only. Their second choice is probably a peaceful household. That's just from my experience knowing alcoholic families and my experience growing up in a dysfunctional family.
Ohh I so agree with what Mattie says...if AH goes into therapy and hes NOT working an AA program and steps, et al, its useless....I have heard this from countless of recovery mates.....the disease messes up their thinking and they really can't respond to therapy...they can con their way around a therapist, but not a bunch of recovering alkies who have been there done that, they would catch on to his BS in a heartbeat and out him about it......if I were you, I would just keep working on me, let him do what hes gotta do, get a sponsor, go to meets, work the steps and dn't do anything rash like leaving or anything until you have had some good ole Al-anon under your belt, and your thinking is sharper.....then if you still want to leave?? hey!!! for me, it was a fact that life was too short and mine was running out as I was in my 50's when I split from AH#2 so i left.....but really....I would get some strong step work and meetings under me before I did anything that serious......then you will really know if it is over or worth fighting for............hang in there.......
The other share is that I have a child too at home. Both times he knew something was going on with dad even before I told him. The first time he was 10 so I gave him the appropriate information and hope. Now he is 17, and I was completely honest with what was going on, the Al-Anon reasoning behind why alcoholics do what they do, and my honest feelings of what should be our next step. He told me that this time is a little easier b/c he knows and can understand the dynamics... but his relationship with his father is forever altered. And if you speak to just about any adult child of an alcoholic, they will probably tell you that having a peaceful/stable home life is more important than whether their parents were divorced/separated.
Seek out meetings. Read here. Get support from people who know what alcoholics do (many people don't).
Sending you Peace & Light.
Hi Beth -- oh can I so relate. In short, my AW, both in and out of counselling constantly said that she drank because she was so unhappy and depressed. Yes, I was blamed for all of it. What a shock. That's a new one, right? LOL. Anyway, at a certain point the discussions almost became that the drinking was acceptable and all we should focus on was that she was unhappy and depressed, so, that's the problem, and I was the problem, and not the drinking. So the drinking was not really an issue. Broken record. The bottom line -- according to the therapist, her doctor, and other professionals -- was that this was her reasoning and "excuse" not to change...because she wanted what she wanted and wanted to keep drinking. Nothing changes if nothing changes.
More to follow...have to run into a biz meeting.
-- Edited by Bo on Friday 25th of August 2017 10:49:33 AM
-- Edited by Bo on Friday 25th of August 2017 10:49:55 AM
Beth, Beth, Beth,
My name is Beth too! Is this karma? I was exactly where you are for many years. We were together for 30 years and married for 27. We have three kids and one is still in high school. My experience was exactly like what you describe: untreated depression, active alcoholism... This led to many years of being blamed for everything that was wrong. Most of the time I knew it was so ridiculous that I could actually brush it off. But as time wore on I realized that I was actually the ultimate enabler. I was keeping the "happy" face on the family, doing everything with/for the kids, protecting his parents from the truth, and dying little by little. I didn't want to see people because I didn't want them to know the truth and I also didn't know how he would behave in a social situation. I was getting increasingly isolated and it was my own doing!
I felt paralyzed by trying to figure out what was best for my youngest child. Should she stay in her childhood home? Should we keep up the appearance of an intact family? Would she blame me if I tried to get her to move out with me? Would she come? The only blessing of pure misery is that it made me act when all the other self messages are paralyzing me. Also, I did come to the conclusion that my child needed a happy, safe place to come home to every day.
I now live in an apartment with my youngest and my dog. My husband fell apart as soon as I left. It was terribly sad. Of course, he sees that all that blaming was untrue and part of his illness. He now believes that I was the only good thing in his life. I am not sure that is true either. I am new to alanon and am somewhere in step 2. Therefore, I do not have the wisdom and experience that many others on this message board have gained. However, I do try to live by the mantra "Everything you want is on the other side of fear" and push forward to a joyful, healthy life.
As others here say, take what you like and leave the rest. But know that there are people who understand and send you loving thoughts through the internet.:)
I hope you don't mind me sharing a joke that I heard when I was a kid. Man #1 is walking down the street and sees Man #2 beating his head on a brick wall. Man #1: "Why are you beating your head on the wall?" Man #2: "Because it feels so good when I stop."
Once I got a bit further in Al-Anon, I was able to see the humor in my own behavior. I wouldn't have as much gratitude for the good in my life now, if I hadn't been through the painful times in the past.
I was not going to be OK with the drinking. It was devastating. I felt that my AW was deflecting and coming up with every possible way to not only deflect away from her drinking, but also to make her drinking OK. She had all the proof too. LOL.
One of the things I asked myself was -- if nothing changed -- is this the way I want to live the rest of my life? Is this the life I want to live, moving forward, for the rest of my life? Now, there could be a lot in and around that type of question. I didn't simply answer it and leave. But it certainly got me objectivity. It took me out of denial, conjecture, excuses, justification, fantasy, etc.
Aloha Beth...sorry you are experiencing what you are and what he is. Seems like he is taking the easy way out and is not confronting his own thinking. That sucks!!! My sponsor taught me a great question when I use to do that whiney stuff myself and when he asked it; it would break into my own habit of blaming and not taking responsibility for how things were going for me. I would whine about people, places and things as the cause of my problems and then he would ask me, "Could you be wrong"? Don knew that my mind entertained questions and most always looked for answers and so the question has always hooked with me. "Could I be wrong"? Well could I?
When your husband traps himself with blaming other people, places and things...ask him that question and then shut up and leave him with it. Keep coming back ((((hugs))))
step one ever so slowly but al anon has helped me so much already. The great thing about our therapist is he tells my husband every session "you are an alcoholic" and he does call him on the BS. Whether AH decides to get into recovery or continue to blame all his unhappiness on me is yet to be seen. I know what my choice will be if his choice is to continue drinking.