Hey, guys :) Some stuff going on I want to share about. I have been true to my boundary so far of not giving my abf any money, not paying any of his bills and not buying him anything except maybe some food sometimes. Today I was brave enough to refuse lending him some money. He wrote me a message with this request, and I think my reply was firm yet courteous enough. I was at his place a couple of days ago, to bring over my keys to his flat, because when drunk he sometimes started raging via messages that I have no business having keys to his flat, which is OK with me. But, when I gave him the keys, he said maybe I should keep them. I can't believe how calm I was during our interaction, however brief it was, and I just said something like I don't want to deal with your anger over those keys anymore, so I'm leaving them. He also wanted to be clear about our status. I said it seems to make sense to consider us to be separated, because we don't live together and also seem to mostly disagree on everything in recent months. I asked him what does he think, and he said he still loves me, and would like us to stay as a couple. His words also made it clear that this way I would stay faithful to him, but to separate would mean I'm available to other relationships. He doesn't know that but I have decided to steer clear of relationships for a year anyway, yet I did agree to stay as a couple, of sorts, the long-distance, little-communication kind mostly, I think. I'm okay with that. I would like to have a relationship with him again if he goes for recovery, so I thought, why not? Yesterday he texted me and asked whether I would like to go to his grandparents over the weekend. His mom would come, too, and, in his words, "we could talk it all out". I declined (I think I did it very politely) because I don't see that there's anything to talk about, really. I think his family will be holding a war meeting on strategies to defeat his alcoholism (projecting, I know, maybe there will be nothing of the sort). In any case, I don't want to go, and I'm so glad I was able to say no... It sure is hard to do, but I hope I'll get better at it in time. I will go and visit them, probably in a few weeks. Planned visit - might be OK. So all this, detachment, focusing on my own wants and needs more, this feels liberating yet not at all comfortable, not yet, anyway. I do wonder what kind of relationship this is going to be like? For now, while living separately, him resenting my every other move towards detaching and not enabling. I suppose I'll see in time. Regarding stopping (or at least severely diminishing) financial enabling - this is simply huge for me, I've been aiming towards this for a long time, but wasn't ready for this before, sharing here and in the meetings helped me the most... For now, I'm really content about my recent choices, but I realize someday something will pop up that's gonna be hard for me to refuse to pay for... I just hope I'll be strong enough in my recovery by then to know what's the best next move. And something else - now that I'm mostly not enabling anymore (as far as I understand for now), I feel kind of confused about our relationship. I'm so used to giving with actions (money, housecleaning etc), taking emotionally (being passive, receiving ideas etc). He's used to taking with actions (money, other practical help), giving emotionally (being the one with iniative, good or bad). Now that this dynamic is considerably changing, what now? Its weird, but I think, good. I do tend to be passive, reactive, seems to be part of my disease... So I did something today I don't normally do when I think he might be angry with me - I reached out, sent him a message, updating him about my health (been seeing some doctors recently) and my plan to go out for a movie with my little sister. And he called back, and we had a normal, quite pleasant conversation. I'm amazed, actually. It seems I've been reacting for so long I'm pretty stuck regarding reaching out, it doesn't come naturally to me at all. Still don't have any friends, like, outside family, but I think I might be on the right track to having some someday again. Like I'm stuck on waiting mode - waiting for someone else to do something so I can react... Now I see I've mostly been like that for years and years, even as a kid, actually, so this is gonna take some time to improve... Not sure where I'm going with all this anymore, lol :D Thanks for reading and thanks for existing. I'm so grateful for Alanon and the tools it offers to change ME, one day at a time. I'm starting to become comfortable with myself... :) My nearly constant anxiety from before Alanon and in the first months in the program has lessened considerably, especially due to trying to focus on myself and avoid nagging thoughts about what others might or might not think of me. These things have been most helpful to me in regards to feeling more serene and more myself. Sending my love to you all, today has been a good day, all in all :)

((Aline)) You sound strong and that you are using your program tools effectively. Seeing how keeping the focus on yourself and enjoying life helps to ease the anger, resentment and fear is very impotant awareness.
Good Job

I don't take on the "us" versus "them" mentality -- however, my experience dealing with this disease during my entire lifetime has given me the opportunity to learn a great deal. While it might not be us versus them -- there is often a "dynamic" that comes into play between the alcoholic and a loved one, or an enabler, a spouse, significant other, etc. It can be about money, sex, anything. Sometimes it can be as simple as the alcoholic wants what they want, and/or we want what we want -- at the same time, or at different times. It doesn't matter.

I have found that the alcoholic/addict can be manipulative, conniving, dishonest, lie, steal, cheat, etc. -- and perhaps at times they can be sincere, truthful, open, honest, etc. I've found the latter to be rare. It is part of the disease. I have former to be common. It too is part of the disease. The alcoholic is focused on drinking. Maybe not 24/7, but it is a focal point in their life. I remember at one time, early on, before my AW became full-blown I call it -- she had been a functional alcoholic for years. Very functional. Excelling at work, her career, but still very much an alcoholic. While that part of her life was excellent, my life with her, our marriage was still not well. When not working, her drinking was still common, a focal point in her thinking, activity, day to day activities, etc. That didn't make her an alcoholic. But it was there. I too dealt with an addict -- my gf's son. That was hard-core. Everything, everything was manipulative. He was either manipulative about money, staying on the good side of his mother, having her sympathy and empathy, having her be "his friend" rather than his "mother" and so on and so on. There was manipulation and ulterior motives with everything. He didn't consciously do it -- it was part of the disease.

As a result, part of the dynamic that I have found exists is the play, the inter-play, the back and forth between the alcoholic and "the other person" so to speak. Has that brought me to certain points where I felt "me" versus "her" -- yes. I don't view that as a bad thing. I was in recovery and I was still able to have compassion for her, but I could view that she wanted me to do certain things, and I didn't want to do them. She tried to get me to do so, and I had to try to stand by and honor my boundary. It happened with enabling as well -- she wanted me to "give" and I had to be able to say no. Detaching was another area where it happened. It also was very common with unacceptable behavior -- she was on one side of what was going on, and I was on the other. When an alcoholic/addict is mad at me -- there certainly can be a me versus them -- not in an adversarial way, not in a way where I have to get what I want, or I have to win...but more in a way, that I have do the next right thing in front of me. I have to do what is best, and healthy for me.

More to follow...

My perspective, and my experience -- with my ex-gf -- very often, I was "asked" or should I say "manipulated" and "guilted" into buying food, for her, her kids, her household. We did not live together. We were a couple, for a long time, but in many respects, we were not. That doesn't matter. So -- about the food. She earned a good living. Why was she often broke? Why was the cable TV turned off several times? Why were the cell phones turned off? Why was she often broke? I "had" to buy food, so she could feed her family -- because she was constantly giving money to her addict son. She was constantly picking up the tab for him. She was enabling him. In so many ways. So her probem became mine? That is why I had to buy food? And if I didn't, she was angry. She had a sense of entitlement -- that we were a couple and I should do this, simply because I can, could afford it, and I should because, because we were a couple. For too long -- I did! Until I didn't. Enough. It was unhealthy for me. It hurt me.

We had numerous discussions about the relationship -- many like you referenced -- separated, on a break, but a couple, not looking or dating anyone else, because we don't live together, we are a couple, but not agreeing on anything, arguing about mostly everything, and so on. A couple? She wanted me to be there -- for when she needed me, and she wanted what she wanted. She still wanted me around, but didn't want to be obligated to get better, be there for me, help me when I needed it, and contribute to a healthy relationship -- but she wanted me there. She didn't want to let go. Anyway, what I am hearing from you is the back and forth, the indecisiveness, the hope and conjecture, the one foot in and one foot out, and so on. There is no definitiveness here. There is no commitment to recovery, getting better, getting healthy -- not on his part nor on yours. You asked -- what will the relationship be like now? Well, that's easy. Nothing changes if nothing changes. Period.

I hear you about him resenting every effort you make toward detaching and not enabling. Of course he is! He wants what he wants...and you are trying to not do what he wants! So he will get angry -- and then the anger, resentment, behavior, manipulation, guilt, threats, insults, and more, come into play -- so he can get what he wants! There is an element of co-dependency here as well.

Nothing changes if nothing changes...and YOU can only change YOU. Good luck.

Thank you for your ESH to my somewhat chaotic post, Betty, Bo :). Bo - I'm grateful for your lengthy share, I'll come back to it again as I can see there are a couple of things I want to give more thought to. I'm a work in progress to be sure, but I have made some big changes in the last months leading me to live healthier than before, and I hope to continue going forward.

Hey Aline - lovely share! What moved me is where you suggested there was a 'normal conversation' - I chucked a little bit as in my own small world here, when I began using the tools and focusing on me and what I could change, there was some 'reactions' first and then, similar to your experience, some 'normal'....You are doing a great job - keep doing you and the results will keep 'normalizing'.

I've had a day where even doing me was not enough to combat the isms in my son. He lost it and I calmly suggested he had to leave. It was painful, quiet, sad and strange all at the same time....yet he knew I was enforcing my boundary and he knew exactly why. He did continue to carry-on while packing up to go and it took all I had to not react...

All I know is the more I change what I can, the better things are - most of the time. There will be 'life' happening and the great tools of our program help me through them every time I am willing to pick them up and use them. (((Hugs))) - good on you - keep working it!

Thank you for your encouragement, IAH :) I'm sorry you had to deal with "isms" today, I hate "those" times. What I've noticed in the past week especially, though, is that in the face of crazy stuff the program and my HP seems to have lifted a lot of my fears I used to fall into before... That's a blessing, to know that even if I fall or stumble, I won't perish into a black hole, but will be able to get back on my feet again. Great to have you here :)