i decided i couldn't hold on to my relationship any longer. we had 3 rough years. i was enabling and his disease escalated. i kicked him out. i was (am) heartbroken and traumatized. he went to rehab and then residential program, away for over two months. treatment at the place sucks.
we have stayed in touch. i've said no, he can't come home. now he's asking me if there's any hope for us in future.
i have been honest about my feelings. which are not crystal clear at the moment.
-maybe we'll have a chance if he finds solid (?) recovery, maybe in 5 years it's a possibility? who knows? there was much good between us.
-but... i know his and our unhealthy patterns, i can't trust him, and i don't want to deal with his issues forever. i've seen and been through too much.
since the future is not here yet, i think... first things first. which means, let me recover and deal with your life and work on your recovery.
he is saying 1 year seems reasonable, 5 years too long.
i am thinking, you have other things to worry about right now... like housing and work, and rebuilding from the ground up.
i don't know what to do, what to say, how to help make this process any simpler or clearer. there's different levels of letting go, and i suck at all of them.
i am worn out and super sad. any feedback will be appreciated. talk sense to me....
Sorcha said
Aug 6, 2017
Hi Juneine I know how hard it is to let go, I am struggling with that too, have been for a long time so I have no answers really, just some empathy. Five years does seem a long time. It sounds from your post that you are unsure how you feel and what you want at the moment and that you think you both need to put your energies into your own recoveries at the moment. I am in recovery from my own chemical addiction too and I know the advice to newcomers at aa and na is no new relationships for 2 years, but it's not a new relationship, so I don't know if that applies here. If I was in your situation (my ex partner has no recovery as yet), I would also want to see that they were serious about sobriety and for their own sake, not to get the relationship back. It's back to a day at a time, I suppose and I hope things get clearer for you. Do you go to al-anon?
Junenine said
Aug 6, 2017
Thank you, Sarah. Yes, I go to meetings, went to two this weekend. I guess for me 5 years was about saying "let's see" - not saying wait for me for that long a time. All of his motivation has been about me, proving himself to me, etc., during our relationship. Of course, it didn't work. And it's not possible... and frustrating and uncomfortable for me. So what I'm trying to say and deal with is... I need to let him go to find sobriety and healthiness for himself, not for me. Like you say. But I'm struggling within myself about whether or not there can be hope in the future. Incredibly hard to let go.
Iamhere said
Aug 6, 2017
(((Junenine))) - I am so sorry you are sad and this is hanging over your head. All I know from our program is when in doubt, don't. I also know that when my guys pressure me for answers and I am not done processing, I clearly state if you force an answer, it will be NO. I'd rather be free of chaos/drama than keep working hard for a cause I'm not committed to.
Letting go is so very hard yet we are told to do so and trust the process. I do know it can be easier said than done. I'm kind of a defiant soul, so don't like to be pressured in my processing. Time takes time and when I've been rushed before is when I've had more regrets...
There are never easy answers in dealing with those we care about. I guess that's why our program suggests and constantly reminds us to put ourselves first. Keep taking care of you and trust that clarity will come. It has never failed me before...(((Hugs)))
SerenityRUS said
Aug 6, 2017
Hugs Junie,
I was JUST having this conversation with my daughter .. she's just broken up with her boyfriend .. it screamed things were not going to workout .. he's younger .. not by a little .. he's got a LOT of great qualities .. however .. he's just not the boy for her. Long story short .. basically he did something way stupid which he's prone to do given his age AND his parents called me and made the statement he can't date anyone at this point. They LOVE my daughter and we love the boy. He's a great kid .. however .. he's a kid he's still going to be in high school he's not her equal .. not because he isn't intelligent .. he doesn't have life experience. Again .. he's also currently not making good choices .. one thing about my daughter is we all felt they settled each other to a point .. since summer the relationship has been toxic. They both acknowledge this .. thankfully he hasn't been around because he's been out of country.
My point to that background is what I shared with her is .. it's so easy to get caught in the potential of the other person I neglect to see what is in front of me. How fair is that? I love the person I want them to be not who they are. If I can't honestly love the person they are .. right this second hanging on is incredibly unfair. She got off into this can you see in a few years and I stopped her .. he has a LOT of growing up to do and she really wanted him to be "the one" .. I told her .. who knows what the future holds ... if we are talking about today .. today he's not the mate for you. He has a LOT of things to get past and you better work on you focus on your goals and if down the road it works out .. GREAT .. honestly if he was your age based upon this behavior .. no .. he's not the boy for you. I shared with her what I did with her dad and how totally miserable we both were and it was UGLY. I tried to make him into who I wanted him .. I didn't listen to what he said to me .. I didn't think about long term consequences .. I thought about my will and how to make it work in that situation.
I really encourage you to listen to him .. I think not moving home is totally appropriate .. he's got no sobriety time behind him .. none equals we are not talking about 18 months even. He doesn't need to be in a relationship newly into sobriety .. that's AA suggestion. The other thing is .. if nothing changed and this man presented to you 2 weeks .. 2 months .. 2 years .. can you love him where he is at .. even in the middle of the disease and I'm not talking about loving him from afar which you can totally do today .. I mean loving him living a day to day life.
In total support this stuff is hard at times especially when the heart over looks the head ..
Hugs S :)
Junenine said
Aug 6, 2017
(((Iamhere))) Thank you. I actually said exactly that... the answer right now is no, and if you force an answer about the future right now it's no, and that's all I know right now. He's looking to me for hope. But he's dashed my hopes many times by failing to act and commit to recovery, and I can't make any promises at this time.
Junenine said
Aug 6, 2017
(((SerenityRUs))) Thank you. And yes... I can only go on my experience and what I know. The thing is I've been through a few cycles of promises and waiting for changes - so that's why I've made my decision. I've been doing all the work for a long time, and I've tried to get through to him for years, and he knew our relationship was at stake. So I feel that I was forced to surrender. I feel he has years of work to do in order to be healthy and not act on impulse and fear. And I agree with you about trying to change a person - I actually don't believe in that, but with addiction I find it sooooo tricky - and I don't wanna live in someone's potential. I think the word Love is confusing. You can love a person and still know you are not compatible. You can love a person and still think there are characteristics that you can't live with as a partner. Your daughter is lucky to have you to talk with about these things. I never had any guidance at all... or whatever commentary came my way was dismissive, judgmental, and far from compassionate or helpful. The thing is it's incredibly difficult to let go of the good along with the bad. People are complicated. Hugs to you.
SerenityRUS said
Aug 6, 2017
Hugs Junie that's EXACTLY what prompted our conversation .. how do you let go of the good too. I think as I have gotten older .. I am learning not to minimize or maximize the good or the bad. It's ok to remember the good without romanticizing it and with time that becomes more bitter sweet. The bad .. it just is .. if the bad doesn't outweigh the good then it's acceptance of being human. It is not easy to objectively look at an emotional situation and not be emotionally pulled. My daughter is far more compassionate and forgiving than I am .. this relationship showed her both sides of the coin and I do hope this young man also learned a few things. She was in agreement it should have ended sooner.. neither of them want to let go. Its just not an option and she found out it's not easy to be the dumper. Hugs ..
Junenine said
Aug 6, 2017
so much yes, Serenity. and thanks for this: "it is not easy to objectively look at an emotional situation and not be emotionally pulled." it's so damn agonizing right now because i miss him something fierce. but i'm still in some kind of shock at how bad things got and how many lies i was fed over a very long period of time. i don't want to live in wishful thinking or live in fear of another relapse... plus - and importantly - even sober, it's perfectly possible and even likely to be highly unhealthy. i have been living with some unacceptable behavior, and i really do need some peace. ugh. life. thanks for responding.
bud said
Aug 6, 2017
((((Junenine)))) I can relate and have found leaning into Alanon, I make decisions that are healthier for me rather than based on emotion (which is so easy for me to do). I was told not to make any decisions before having a solid 6 months into Alanon. I tend to focus on the positive over the negative and have found it helpful to run things by a sponsor when evaluating a pro - con list. Considering ending a relationshp isn't easy please be gentle with yourself.
Bo said
Aug 7, 2017
It is not about 5 years, 1 year, long enough, not long enough...the answer is right here in our program...it is about just for today, the answer is yes/no. It is about one day at a time. That is how you live your life, make your decisions. Just for today, you know where you are at. Don't project, don't look one year or five years down the road -- for you to be healthy, start doing the work for and on YOU, just for today, and one day at a time.
Keep coming back.
Junenine said
Aug 7, 2017
(((bud))) thank you. i've been going to meetings over 2 years now. i delayed this decision for a long time for many reasons, which included my denial and my hopefulness. i appreciate your understanding... and will be meeting with my sponsor this week.
mamalioness said
Aug 7, 2017
Hi June: yea, this sucks , being in this position, but if you can't trust him and I see why you can't, reading your posts, then DONT....trust in your higher power....and his "1 year is reasonable, 5 years too long" HE is still trying to manipulate and control..this is about YOU and YOUR taking care of YOU....He's got to, if there is any hope of his getting into recovery, take care of his OWN messes.....I life your "let me recover and you deal with your life and work on your recovery" step ONE,..I am powerless over all persons, places and things OUTside of me....but the Creator is not...Time to walk away from it and give it over to Creator...work Al-anon meets, get ME squared away, mentally and emotionally and let time tell you what is your reality regarding him......letting go is taking your hands OFF...letting your higher power on, and turning him over to his HP.....yes, it is sad...it sucks to have to cut someone loose, permanent or long term or temporary..its like we feel we "invested" ourselves into a person and we want a return, but that is not realistic because unhealthy people have nothing in their cup to give...but Oh they want to TAKE..oh yea!!! but totally incapable of giving anything but chaos, drama and more suffering........so sorry about this, but it is what it is and if this is not compatible with your desired "life song" then you know you gotta hunker down, take care of you....let him to his own lessons......
Junenine said
Aug 7, 2017
(((bo))) thank you. that's what i've been thinking is the "right" and most truthful answer. i know where i am now, what my decision must be, regardless of my pain or his. i get tangled up tho because he looks to me for hope... and is way more black and white in his thinking than i am. i have been honest all along... but i'm still in the process of getting clear and out of denial with myself, i think. and still in a highly emotional state. so One Day At A Time. yes.
Bo said
Aug 7, 2017
I hear you Junenine...I really do...I get it...
This is not about him...this is about YOU.
Junenine said
Aug 7, 2017
(((Rose))) thank you. i heard in a meeting yesterday that the addicted don't know when to stop taking, and al-anonics don't know when to stop giving. i shared this with him. he reminds me of the various positive aspects of our relationship, and his desire to give, and i say that's all beside the point. i am aware of the positive in our relationship, have focused on that all along, until i got walloped by the negative. what's done is done. i've been wondering when enough would be enough for some time, and then that time came. now i have to do something different and i'm becoming protective about my sanity and serenity...
Junenine said
Aug 7, 2017
i know you do, Bo... Just For Today is a good one, so needed lately. Thanks. Helps to hear clarity and confirmation and wisdom from others.
el-cee said
Aug 7, 2017
I did this too, couldn't completely let go for a long time so kept him just in sight, just in case. Its a difficult one because if he works the program with you in sight, then hes not working the program for him and his life, hes doing it for the reward which is not a spiritual life, its you. I'm not sure that true sobriety can come that way. The 3 cs come to mind, you have no control over anothers sobriety or not.
Why are you hanging on? I hung on for a few reasons like, my sons still need a Father, wrong reason, a drunk Father is not a Father, in case he miraculaously changed and then maybe I wanted him after all, wrong reason, pretty selfish and again controlling, I had invested years that I didn't want to just throw away, another wrong reason, coming to Alanon meant I threw away ideas and hopes I had been hanging onto since I was a child, it set me free to let go. I thought he might hurt himself or go downhill fast if I told him its over and meant it, so I still believed I had power and I was actually keeping him alive. Crazy thinking and very egotistical thinking I had that much power but I did.
I had to accept, he was not the only one behaving within this disease, he wasn't the only one in need of a recovery program. When I let him go I got serious about my own disease and recovery from it and miraculaously so did he. Hes been sober, in AA for 4 years. Almost to the day I got honest and told him it was completely over and meant it, no contact at all.
mamalioness said
Aug 7, 2017
GOOD GIRL!!!! "have to do something different and i'm becoming protective about my sanity and serenity" sounds like recovery , to me, June....and ya, they take..we give until it hurts...been there and done that until my well went dry and I decided that when the next rains came and filled my well, I would be damn careful who dips their bucket in my well....there are takers and givers...I love to give, but I FIRST check my motives and "do I have it to give" if motives are unclear our out of CoDa need for "love"?? i don't...or if I just don't have it??? I take care of me....You will do fine...I see you want to help yourself..that is the first big step to change.....You go girl!!!!
Junenine said
Aug 7, 2017
(((el-cee))) you make so many good points and i can relate to them all... i am still emotionally attached for several reasons. many thanks for responding.
i decided i couldn't hold on to my relationship any longer. we had 3 rough years. i was enabling and his disease escalated. i kicked him out. i was (am) heartbroken and traumatized. he went to rehab and then residential program, away for over two months. treatment at the place sucks.
we have stayed in touch. i've said no, he can't come home. now he's asking me if there's any hope for us in future.
i have been honest about my feelings. which are not crystal clear at the moment.
-maybe we'll have a chance if he finds solid (?) recovery, maybe in 5 years it's a possibility? who knows? there was much good between us.
-but... i know his and our unhealthy patterns, i can't trust him, and i don't want to deal with his issues forever. i've seen and been through too much.
since the future is not here yet, i think... first things first. which means, let me recover and deal with your life and work on your recovery.
he is saying 1 year seems reasonable, 5 years too long.
i am thinking, you have other things to worry about right now... like housing and work, and rebuilding from the ground up.
i don't know what to do, what to say, how to help make this process any simpler or clearer. there's different levels of letting go, and i suck at all of them.
i am worn out and super sad. any feedback will be appreciated. talk sense to me....
Thank you, Sarah. Yes, I go to meetings, went to two this weekend. I guess for me 5 years was about saying "let's see" - not saying wait for me for that long a time. All of his motivation has been about me, proving himself to me, etc., during our relationship. Of course, it didn't work. And it's not possible... and frustrating and uncomfortable for me. So what I'm trying to say and deal with is... I need to let him go to find sobriety and healthiness for himself, not for me. Like you say. But I'm struggling within myself about whether or not there can be hope in the future. Incredibly hard to let go.
Letting go is so very hard yet we are told to do so and trust the process. I do know it can be easier said than done. I'm kind of a defiant soul, so don't like to be pressured in my processing. Time takes time and when I've been rushed before is when I've had more regrets...
There are never easy answers in dealing with those we care about. I guess that's why our program suggests and constantly reminds us to put ourselves first. Keep taking care of you and trust that clarity will come. It has never failed me before...(((Hugs)))
I was JUST having this conversation with my daughter .. she's just broken up with her boyfriend .. it screamed things were not going to workout .. he's younger .. not by a little .. he's got a LOT of great qualities .. however .. he's just not the boy for her. Long story short .. basically he did something way stupid which he's prone to do given his age AND his parents called me and made the statement he can't date anyone at this point. They LOVE my daughter and we love the boy. He's a great kid .. however .. he's a kid he's still going to be in high school he's not her equal .. not because he isn't intelligent .. he doesn't have life experience. Again .. he's also currently not making good choices .. one thing about my daughter is we all felt they settled each other to a point .. since summer the relationship has been toxic. They both acknowledge this .. thankfully he hasn't been around because he's been out of country.
My point to that background is what I shared with her is .. it's so easy to get caught in the potential of the other person I neglect to see what is in front of me. How fair is that? I love the person I want them to be not who they are. If I can't honestly love the person they are .. right this second hanging on is incredibly unfair. She got off into this can you see in a few years and I stopped her .. he has a LOT of growing up to do and she really wanted him to be "the one" .. I told her .. who knows what the future holds ... if we are talking about today .. today he's not the mate for you. He has a LOT of things to get past and you better work on you focus on your goals and if down the road it works out .. GREAT .. honestly if he was your age based upon this behavior .. no .. he's not the boy for you. I shared with her what I did with her dad and how totally miserable we both were and it was UGLY. I tried to make him into who I wanted him .. I didn't listen to what he said to me .. I didn't think about long term consequences .. I thought about my will and how to make it work in that situation.
I really encourage you to listen to him .. I think not moving home is totally appropriate .. he's got no sobriety time behind him .. none equals we are not talking about 18 months even. He doesn't need to be in a relationship newly into sobriety .. that's AA suggestion. The other thing is .. if nothing changed and this man presented to you 2 weeks .. 2 months .. 2 years .. can you love him where he is at .. even in the middle of the disease and I'm not talking about loving him from afar which you can totally do today .. I mean loving him living a day to day life.
In total support this stuff is hard at times especially when the heart over looks the head ..
Hugs S :)
(((Iamhere))) Thank you. I actually said exactly that... the answer right now is no, and if you force an answer about the future right now it's no, and that's all I know right now. He's looking to me for hope. But he's dashed my hopes many times by failing to act and commit to recovery, and I can't make any promises at this time.
(((SerenityRUs))) Thank you. And yes... I can only go on my experience and what I know. The thing is I've been through a few cycles of promises and waiting for changes - so that's why I've made my decision. I've been doing all the work for a long time, and I've tried to get through to him for years, and he knew our relationship was at stake. So I feel that I was forced to surrender. I feel he has years of work to do in order to be healthy and not act on impulse and fear. And I agree with you about trying to change a person - I actually don't believe in that, but with addiction I find it sooooo tricky - and I don't wanna live in someone's potential. I think the word Love is confusing. You can love a person and still know you are not compatible. You can love a person and still think there are characteristics that you can't live with as a partner. Your daughter is lucky to have you to talk with about these things. I never had any guidance at all... or whatever commentary came my way was dismissive, judgmental, and far from compassionate or helpful. The thing is it's incredibly difficult to let go of the good along with the bad. People are complicated. Hugs to you.
so much yes, Serenity. and thanks for this: "it is not easy to objectively look at an emotional situation and not be emotionally pulled." it's so damn agonizing right now because i miss him something fierce. but i'm still in some kind of shock at how bad things got and how many lies i was fed over a very long period of time. i don't want to live in wishful thinking or live in fear of another relapse... plus - and importantly - even sober, it's perfectly possible and even likely to be highly unhealthy. i have been living with some unacceptable behavior, and i really do need some peace. ugh. life. thanks for responding.
It is not about 5 years, 1 year, long enough, not long enough...the answer is right here in our program...it is about just for today, the answer is yes/no. It is about one day at a time. That is how you live your life, make your decisions. Just for today, you know where you are at. Don't project, don't look one year or five years down the road -- for you to be healthy, start doing the work for and on YOU, just for today, and one day at a time.
Keep coming back.
(((bud))) thank you. i've been going to meetings over 2 years now. i delayed this decision for a long time for many reasons, which included my denial and my hopefulness. i appreciate your understanding... and will be meeting with my sponsor this week.
Hi June: yea, this sucks , being in this position, but if you can't trust him and I see why you can't, reading your posts, then DONT....trust in your higher power....and his "1 year is reasonable, 5 years too long" HE is still trying to manipulate and control..this is about YOU and YOUR taking care of YOU....He's got to, if there is any hope of his getting into recovery, take care of his OWN messes.....I life your "let me recover and you deal with your life and work on your recovery" step ONE,..I am powerless over all persons, places and things OUTside of me....but the Creator is not...Time to walk away from it and give it over to Creator...work Al-anon meets, get ME squared away, mentally and emotionally and let time tell you what is your reality regarding him......letting go is taking your hands OFF...letting your higher power on, and turning him over to his HP.....yes, it is sad...it sucks to have to cut someone loose, permanent or long term or temporary..its like we feel we "invested" ourselves into a person and we want a return, but that is not realistic because unhealthy people have nothing in their cup to give...but Oh they want to TAKE..oh yea!!! but totally incapable of giving anything but chaos, drama and more suffering........so sorry about this, but it is what it is and if this is not compatible with your desired "life song" then you know you gotta hunker down, take care of you....let him to his own lessons......
(((bo))) thank you. that's what i've been thinking is the "right" and most truthful answer. i know where i am now, what my decision must be, regardless of my pain or his. i get tangled up tho because he looks to me for hope... and is way more black and white in his thinking than i am. i have been honest all along... but i'm still in the process of getting clear and out of denial with myself, i think. and still in a highly emotional state. so One Day At A Time. yes.
This is not about him...this is about YOU.
(((Rose))) thank you. i heard in a meeting yesterday that the addicted don't know when to stop taking, and al-anonics don't know when to stop giving. i shared this with him. he reminds me of the various positive aspects of our relationship, and his desire to give, and i say that's all beside the point. i am aware of the positive in our relationship, have focused on that all along, until i got walloped by the negative. what's done is done. i've been wondering when enough would be enough for some time, and then that time came. now i have to do something different and i'm becoming protective about my sanity and serenity...
i know you do, Bo... Just For Today is a good one, so needed lately. Thanks. Helps to hear clarity and confirmation and wisdom from others.
Why are you hanging on? I hung on for a few reasons like, my sons still need a Father, wrong reason, a drunk Father is not a Father, in case he miraculaously changed and then maybe I wanted him after all, wrong reason, pretty selfish and again controlling, I had invested years that I didn't want to just throw away, another wrong reason, coming to Alanon meant I threw away ideas and hopes I had been hanging onto since I was a child, it set me free to let go. I thought he might hurt himself or go downhill fast if I told him its over and meant it, so I still believed I had power and I was actually keeping him alive. Crazy thinking and very egotistical thinking I had that much power but I did.
I had to accept, he was not the only one behaving within this disease, he wasn't the only one in need of a recovery program. When I let him go I got serious about my own disease and recovery from it and miraculaously so did he. Hes been sober, in AA for 4 years. Almost to the day I got honest and told him it was completely over and meant it, no contact at all.
GOOD GIRL!!!! "have to do something different and i'm becoming protective about my sanity and serenity" sounds like recovery , to me, June....and ya, they take..we give until it hurts...been there and done that until my well went dry and I decided that when the next rains came and filled my well, I would be damn careful who dips their bucket in my well....there are takers and givers...I love to give, but I FIRST check my motives and "do I have it to give" if motives are unclear our out of CoDa need for "love"?? i don't...or if I just don't have it??? I take care of me....You will do fine...I see you want to help yourself..that is the first big step to change.....You go girl!!!!
(((el-cee))) you make so many good points and i can relate to them all... i am still emotionally attached for several reasons. many thanks for responding.
(((Rose))) yes... many thanks!