This is the ongoing saga of my ex-AH. He is in the hospital with multiple problems. It looks as if he has advanced cirrhosis, plus bad injuries from when he fell. He had a procedure to drain his stomach of fluid. A mutual friend was there when he had the news from the doctor. The doctor said, "Do you drink alcohol at all?" A: "Yeah, sometimes." Doctor: "You'll want to stop that, and eat healthy, okay?" A: "Yeah, okay." Doctor leaves.
I know a doctor can't turn someone's life around on the spot, but I do feel a little frustrated that the doctor didn't spell out the situation with a little more force.
I'm thinking this is the moment for a 12th-step visitor. I am thousands of miles away in a different country. Is there a way to reach someone in AA there and suggest this? I'm afraid I don't know anyone in AA there, though I've lived in that town. Do you think that would be possible?
I know that I "Can't Control It," but I thought that if I don't try to do this one thing, I'd probably always wonder if it might have helped, down the line.
hotrod said
Jun 22, 2017
I have called the inter group office in the location where my partner lived and asked for a 12 step visit. Not sure if calling the AA WSO would help but you can try. Positive thoughts and payers continue
2HP said
Jun 22, 2017
I so admire your kindness. my kids are adults now and they've been to the ER countless times with their dad. so I've never had to step up or help in any way. Your son cannot help his dad. I'd like to think I would do like you... I'd try everything.... because he is the father of my children.
However, I am reminded of my sponsors words, " Keep low expectations." Because whenever I hold an attachment to results, then it becomes a "saga" or a "drama" for me. I only need to "suit up and show up"... but remember to leave all outcomes to God.
I remember being disappointed in doctors too, until I accepted they are powerless too. In my experience, so are judges. No human power can relieve alcoholism.
Jerry F said
Jun 22, 2017
Mattie calling the central office of the town or city or area he is in often does the trick. Often times the men who do jails and prisons will come out and speak to the alcoholic. I have done 12step calls from pleas to Al-Anon. It works when you work it. See if there is a meeting or group in his area from AA.org and call for support and then...turn it over to HP. (((hugs)))
thos17 said
Jun 22, 2017
Over the course of a few months, my AW made several trips to the emergency room for acute alcohol poising (BAC 0.52) and had a couple of extended stays in the hospital for alcohol related illnesses. She was spiraling downward quickly, and every doctor told her that she was dangerously close to death. My home group has a few regulars whose loved ones died from alcohol poisoning or drug overdose. Listening to their stories helped me accept that her survival is completely out of my hands. She expressed a desire to die, and I moved out so that I didn't have to watch her commit a slow suicide. It was agonizing, but it was the only way I could let go of feeling responsible for her life.
On her last visit (after I had let go), she flat-lined in the ER and was resuscitated. After a two week stay in the hospital for a heart condition brought on by alcoholism, she entered a 3 month treatment program. She's been sober for the past year. While my story has a happy ending (so far), it was incredibly important for me to accept that it might not. I am completely powerless over saving her life.
Jerry F said
Jun 22, 2017
Thos 17 you are so welcomed here and right about your powerlessness and then you don't know how your HP used you and continues to use you in this last episode. You did not interfere in her surrender and that is often how a tool works. I did the same and low and behold my alcoholic/addict wife got clean and sober and at the same time my Higher Power used her to teach me a great lesson about humility. I can hear some of it in your post. Thanks for dropping by and sharing your ESH. (((hugs))) Keep coming back.
shrnp said
Jun 22, 2017
My ex-abf ended up in the hospital because of hepatitis,cirrhosis, and malnutrition. He almost died and had to recover in a nursing home. He had to get his stomach pumped once because of the cirrhosis. He has been sober for six months now and doing a lot better. So far he has been recovering and the medication is helping with the fluid. It is not an easy thing to go through with an ex or current partner. I had to remember that whatever happened was in God's hands. I have been relying on this group the whole time, it has really made a difference for me.
-- Edited by shrnp on Thursday 22nd of June 2017 08:36:35 PM
Mattie said
Jun 23, 2017
Thank you all. Thos17, that is an amazing story! It certainly shows that we never know what the future has in store.
My A ex-H is in a bad situation and it is sobering (to coin a phrase) for me to see what he has come to after many years of being a "functioning alcoholic." I know they're never totally functioning, but he was keeping up the pretense for so many years that I had gotten used to the situation. But the past year has obviously seen things go bad in a drastic way. It is awful when you remember someone being young and healthy and full of hope, and then you fast-forward to the present day and you see what a disaster it's all become. No one would sign up for that with full knowledge of what was going to happen. What a curse alcoholism is.
My A is in a specially bad situation because he let his insurance lapse. He needs to be in a nursing home because he can't walk or take care of himself. But it doesn't sound like he's in a coherent enough state to figure out what to do. I hope the hospital social worker will intervene, but I've seen enough of the chaos that is hospitals that I won't be surprised if that doesn't happen. He has a friend who is (reluctantly) overseeing things. I am also friends with that friend.
The problem I'm having is that my ex declares he hates my guts, and he has specifically ordered his friend not to tell me what's going on. So if I arrange for someone to 12-step him, he will know that his friend is telling me anyway. So he may stop speaking to the friend, which just makes things worse. His bad decision-making goes on apace!
I guess I just need to look at my motives, try to decide on the healthiest action, and then let go and let God.
There are no meetings whatsoever in the town where I am, so I thank you all for being my shoulder to cry on.
el-cee said
Jun 23, 2017
Hi Mattie, it truly is a horrible disease and I agree with 2hp, your desire to help and do something is kind and loving. I wonder if a phone call to AA can be anonymous, these guys know the script in terms of anonymity. Maybe you could say who he is where he is and let it go. Or maybe your being led by your higher power to not do anything. When I listen to AA speakers they often talk of getting sober as soon as all the 'helpers' stopped helping. It makes sense to me, if this disease has its roots in selfishness and self centredness then all the attention is fueling the disease, sounds bad to just stop doing anything for the drinker when they seem so fragile and vulnerable but they often bounce back ready for round 2 or round 500, whatever, the bouncing back with the help of friends and family just helps them in denial of the truth of their situation. My ex, sober for 4 yrs in AA, told me he woke up one day and realised he hadnt seen his children or another human being for almost 2 months and it was at that moment he realised that noone was was there watching him self destruct and that he wanted to live a different life. Its an actual miracle, hes working, driving, has a social life, dating so I hear. Hes got his kids in his life, my daughter lives with him.
I know not everyone fits into this but letting go and letting god is probably the most loving thing to do but if you feel the need to do something, go to the experts, not doctors or phsychiatrists etc go to Alcoholics in AA. Only these guys know what they are doing. The rest of us are just shooting in the dark.
Mattie said
Jun 23, 2017
Thank you, El-cee. I am so grateful for people who understand.
I have been wavering about what to do. But then the mutual friend who has been on the spot dealing with this chewed me out for thinking about the 12-stepping. This friend gave me a lecture about how I was wrong to try to stage-manage things and that I was being controlling and it would backfire and I didn't understand things. I can't make him recover, etc. And interventions are bad. (I wasn't planning what's called an actual intervention, just someone from AA stopping by to chat.)
I certainly understand that I can't make him recover - if I could, all my massive effort in years past would have done the trick! My thought was that it might be good to send this potential helping hand (not making any direct contact at all or saying it was from me), just so I could say, down the line, "I did what I could." Not, "I wonder if someone from AA had stopped by while he was in the hospital, would that have helped?" Trying to prevent later regret was important to me in several crises in the past.
Basically, if I am looking at my expectations, I expect him to die of alcoholism. I may be pleasantly surprised. But looking at the way things have gone these past years, he has been heading in one direction only. I think the tragic and likely outcome of this is already all too obvious. I hope not, but...
So I was taken aback by the friend's hostility. And it's ironic that I was being lectured about not understanding that I can't force an alcoholic to recover! A lesson I have already had way too much evidence of! I do wish the friend had seen my good will and been less harsh, even if not agreeing with my actions.
The whole thing is getting me really upset and depressed and I am going to try to do some major work on myself today. They're going to do what they're going to do. I think what I'm going to do is to take a nap.
2HP said
Jun 23, 2017
The best way I examine my motives is by asking myself who's being harmed by my actions.
my sponsor would always say, "i'm most concerned about YOU"
And you will be harmed, Mattie, if you forget your powerlessness, it doesn't seem like you will. Powerlessness to me does not mean standing by and never trying to help anybody. it just means I am willing. it's up to God if any GOOD results.
What I know is alcoholics have to be desperate enough to listen and they listen best to those who identify with them. This is where LET GO LET GOD slogan comes in, your former husband will either be broken and cracked enough to let the light in..... or he won't. it is entirely between him and his Higher Power.
I tend to believe the love in my heart is put there for expression. Outcomes are out of my hands but I feel free enough today just allowing myself to be a simple instrument where love flows freely. Wondering about whether or not I can or should express love is an old remnant of dis-ease.
Yesterday at a busy intersection, a young teen was standing in 90-plus degrees holding a cardboard sign begging for $$ to buy a bus ticket. "There but for the grace of God go I," I thought and quickly searched for change, which is all I had. I handed it all to him and driving away began to wonder if I had "enabled" in the wrong way, the judging machine in my head began churning.
Just as quickly, I let the fearful thought go. I told God I want to trust Him today.
whatever you decide, I applaud your willingness.
-- Edited by 2HP on Friday 23rd of June 2017 07:59:31 AM
Iamhere said
Jun 23, 2017
I don't know if this will help your processing or not, but in my area we (AA) do extensive outreach to hospitals, doctors, etc. What this means is we actually stop by, deliver pre-produced literature (pamphlets, hand-outs, etc.) to them to use in their treatment of patients who may be in need.
In our community, the Area Office is on the web, and there is an actual link/tab for health care professionals. It's possible that what you are mulling around in your processing has already happened. Sending you tons of positive thoughts and prayers!
shrnp said
Jun 23, 2017
Mattie, My ex-bf was in intensive care for 10 days, he went into a coma. He could not walk at all,and that is why he went to a nursing home. The hospital saved his life, there was not anyway he was walking out of there by himself. I know that one of his kids had to get power of attorney, the social workers did do all of that. He was very undernourished and the lack of vitamin B is what caused him to not be able to walk. Maybe your A-exh is still coherent enough that he can speak for himself. He has to want to get help, he has to feel as if he has hit his rock bottom. If he had ascites and had to get the fluid drained they had to explain it to him, that he will have to get it done every so many days. The fluid retention itself is enough for him to get the picture. They have to recommend he sees a specialist. Maybe there is a lot that was said at the hospital that you might not have been told.
-- Edited by shrnp on Friday 23rd of June 2017 08:50:21 AM
Mattie said
Jun 23, 2017
Yes, I hope so, good point. When my mother was very ill, they sent her home from the hospital knowing she could not walk, and knowing she had no help. (I was frantically flying in from far away.) They just took her home in an ambulance and dumped her there. It was appalling. I could get no help from them whatsoever. So I will put nothing past an incompetent hospital or one in which the specialists are not talking to each other. But in this case it is out of my hands.
Freetime said
Jun 23, 2017
Mattie,
I'm sorry your friend reacted with hostility ... could be the stress of dealing with the situation, and definitely not something to take personally. And I understand your frustration with the hospital .... been there!
Here is my ESH:
By the time my late husband was at the stage of illness that your ex-AH is in, he had been told multiple times by multiple doctors that he had to abstain from alcohol due to his serious health issues. During one hospital stay, I insisted that he contact the chemical dependency program, which he had been given information about by the social worker, but he angrily refused.
Once I reached my bottom, I got into Al-Anon, but I didn't really talk to him about it ... just mentioned it to my adult daughter. Then she got into Al-Anon as well. One day she mentioned to her dad that she and mom were both going to Al-Anon meetings, and he asked, "Who's your alcoholic?" I guess he wasn't sure ;)
He became willing to have our daughter drive him to an AA meeting and an Al-Anon meeting, and afterwards he said that they seemed like nice people and he would be willing to go back. While he did not live long enough to go back, I learned that HP works in mysterious ways, and I consider this a miracle.
I didn't realize it at the time, but I was "letting go and letting God." Now I know I really did everything within my power, so I am at peace.
-- Edited by Freetime on Friday 23rd of June 2017 09:39:34 AM
WendyP said
Jan 31, 2018
Hi Mattie, give yourself a big Pat on the Back, and cut yourself some slack, you are doing the very best that you can, under extreme circumstances. Dealing with Alcoholism, is hard enough. It is so Powerful, as you will probably know. What I do, when faced with big decision, especially when it involves some one else. I ask God to help me, make the best decision that could be for me, and the other person, and if I am going the wrong way, to please stop me, and show me in no uncertain terms, which way,to go and what to do. All I am in charge of is, the Efforts, not the results,, for me, dealing with Alcoholism, there are no right or wrong ways to go, and most of our Decisions are pretty big. Trust Your Instincts, as to me, that is where My Gods talks/shows me what He wants from me. I pray for you and keep you in my Thoughts.
This is the ongoing saga of my ex-AH. He is in the hospital with multiple problems. It looks as if he has advanced cirrhosis, plus bad injuries from when he fell. He had a procedure to drain his stomach of fluid. A mutual friend was there when he had the news from the doctor. The doctor said, "Do you drink alcohol at all?" A: "Yeah, sometimes." Doctor: "You'll want to stop that, and eat healthy, okay?" A: "Yeah, okay." Doctor leaves.
I know a doctor can't turn someone's life around on the spot, but I do feel a little frustrated that the doctor didn't spell out the situation with a little more force.
I'm thinking this is the moment for a 12th-step visitor. I am thousands of miles away in a different country. Is there a way to reach someone in AA there and suggest this? I'm afraid I don't know anyone in AA there, though I've lived in that town. Do you think that would be possible?
I know that I "Can't Control It," but I thought that if I don't try to do this one thing, I'd probably always wonder if it might have helped, down the line.
I have called the inter group office in the location where my partner lived and asked for a 12 step visit. Not sure if calling the AA WSO would help but you can try.
Positive thoughts and payers continue
However, I am reminded of my sponsors words, " Keep low expectations." Because whenever I hold an attachment to results, then it becomes a "saga" or a "drama" for me. I only need to "suit up and show up"... but remember to leave all outcomes to God.
I remember being disappointed in doctors too, until I accepted they are powerless too. In my experience, so are judges. No human power can relieve alcoholism.
Mattie calling the central office of the town or city or area he is in often does the trick. Often times the men who do jails and prisons will come out and speak to the alcoholic. I have done 12step calls from pleas to Al-Anon. It works when you work it. See if there is a meeting or group in his area from AA.org and call for support and then...turn it over to HP. (((hugs)))
On her last visit (after I had let go), she flat-lined in the ER and was resuscitated. After a two week stay in the hospital for a heart condition brought on by alcoholism, she entered a 3 month treatment program. She's been sober for the past year. While my story has a happy ending (so far), it was incredibly important for me to accept that it might not. I am completely powerless over saving her life.
Thos 17 you are so welcomed here and right about your powerlessness and then you don't know how your HP used you and continues to use you in this last episode. You did not interfere in her surrender and that is often how a tool works. I did the same and low and behold my alcoholic/addict wife got clean and sober and at the same time my Higher Power used her to teach me a great lesson about humility. I can hear some of it in your post. Thanks for dropping by and sharing your ESH. (((hugs))) Keep coming back.
My ex-abf ended up in the hospital because of hepatitis,cirrhosis, and malnutrition. He almost died and had to recover in a nursing home. He had to get his stomach pumped once because of the cirrhosis. He has been sober for six months now and doing a lot better. So far he has been recovering and the medication is helping with the fluid. It is not an easy thing to go through with an ex or current partner. I had to remember that whatever happened was in God's hands. I have been relying on this group the whole time, it has really made a difference for me.
-- Edited by shrnp on Thursday 22nd of June 2017 08:36:35 PM
Thank you all. Thos17, that is an amazing story! It certainly shows that we never know what the future has in store.
My A ex-H is in a bad situation and it is sobering (to coin a phrase) for me to see what he has come to after many years of being a "functioning alcoholic." I know they're never totally functioning, but he was keeping up the pretense for so many years that I had gotten used to the situation. But the past year has obviously seen things go bad in a drastic way. It is awful when you remember someone being young and healthy and full of hope, and then you fast-forward to the present day and you see what a disaster it's all become. No one would sign up for that with full knowledge of what was going to happen. What a curse alcoholism is.
My A is in a specially bad situation because he let his insurance lapse. He needs to be in a nursing home because he can't walk or take care of himself. But it doesn't sound like he's in a coherent enough state to figure out what to do. I hope the hospital social worker will intervene, but I've seen enough of the chaos that is hospitals that I won't be surprised if that doesn't happen. He has a friend who is (reluctantly) overseeing things. I am also friends with that friend.
The problem I'm having is that my ex declares he hates my guts, and he has specifically ordered his friend not to tell me what's going on. So if I arrange for someone to 12-step him, he will know that his friend is telling me anyway. So he may stop speaking to the friend, which just makes things worse. His bad decision-making goes on apace!
I guess I just need to look at my motives, try to decide on the healthiest action, and then let go and let God.
There are no meetings whatsoever in the town where I am, so I thank you all for being my shoulder to cry on.
I know not everyone fits into this but letting go and letting god is probably the most loving thing to do but if you feel the need to do something, go to the experts, not doctors or phsychiatrists etc go to Alcoholics in AA. Only these guys know what they are doing. The rest of us are just shooting in the dark.
Thank you, El-cee. I am so grateful for people who understand.
I have been wavering about what to do. But then the mutual friend who has been on the spot dealing with this chewed me out for thinking about the 12-stepping. This friend gave me a lecture about how I was wrong to try to stage-manage things and that I was being controlling and it would backfire and I didn't understand things. I can't make him recover, etc. And interventions are bad. (I wasn't planning what's called an actual intervention, just someone from AA stopping by to chat.)
I certainly understand that I can't make him recover - if I could, all my massive effort in years past would have done the trick! My thought was that it might be good to send this potential helping hand (not making any direct contact at all or saying it was from me), just so I could say, down the line, "I did what I could." Not, "I wonder if someone from AA had stopped by while he was in the hospital, would that have helped?" Trying to prevent later regret was important to me in several crises in the past.
Basically, if I am looking at my expectations, I expect him to die of alcoholism. I may be pleasantly surprised. But looking at the way things have gone these past years, he has been heading in one direction only. I think the tragic and likely outcome of this is already all too obvious. I hope not, but...
So I was taken aback by the friend's hostility. And it's ironic that I was being lectured about not understanding that I can't force an alcoholic to recover! A lesson I have already had way too much evidence of! I do wish the friend had seen my good will and been less harsh, even if not agreeing with my actions.
The whole thing is getting me really upset and depressed and I am going to try to do some major work on myself today. They're going to do what they're going to do. I think what I'm going to do is to take a nap.
The best way I examine my motives is by asking myself who's being harmed by my actions.
my sponsor would always say, "i'm most concerned about YOU"
And you will be harmed, Mattie, if you forget your powerlessness, it doesn't seem like you will. Powerlessness to me does not mean standing by and never trying to help anybody. it just means I am willing. it's up to God if any GOOD results.
What I know is alcoholics have to be desperate enough to listen and they listen best to those who identify with them. This is where LET GO LET GOD slogan comes in, your former husband will either be broken and cracked enough to let the light in..... or he won't. it is entirely between him and his Higher Power.
I tend to believe the love in my heart is put there for expression. Outcomes are out of my hands but I feel free enough today just allowing myself to be a simple instrument where love flows freely. Wondering about whether or not I can or should express love is an old remnant of dis-ease.
Yesterday at a busy intersection, a young teen was standing in 90-plus degrees holding a cardboard sign begging for $$ to buy a bus ticket. "There but for the grace of God go I," I thought and quickly searched for change, which is all I had. I handed it all to him and driving away began to wonder if I had "enabled" in the wrong way, the judging machine in my head began churning.
Just as quickly, I let the fearful thought go. I told God I want to trust Him today.
whatever you decide, I applaud your willingness.
-- Edited by 2HP on Friday 23rd of June 2017 07:59:31 AM
In our community, the Area Office is on the web, and there is an actual link/tab for health care professionals. It's possible that what you are mulling around in your processing has already happened. Sending you tons of positive thoughts and prayers!
Mattie,
My ex-bf was in intensive care for 10 days, he went into a coma. He could not walk at all,and that is why he went to a nursing home. The hospital saved his life, there was not anyway he was walking out of there by himself. I know that one of his kids had to get power of attorney, the social workers did do all of that. He was very undernourished and the lack of vitamin B is what caused him to not be able to walk. Maybe your A-exh is still coherent enough that he can speak for himself. He has to want to get help, he has to feel as if he has hit his rock bottom. If he had ascites and had to get the fluid drained they had to explain it to him, that he will have to get it done every so many days. The fluid retention itself is enough for him to get the picture. They have to recommend he sees a specialist. Maybe there is a lot that was said at the hospital that you might not have been told.
-- Edited by shrnp on Friday 23rd of June 2017 08:50:21 AM
Yes, I hope so, good point. When my mother was very ill, they sent her home from the hospital knowing she could not walk, and knowing she had no help. (I was frantically flying in from far away.) They just took her home in an ambulance and dumped her there. It was appalling. I could get no help from them whatsoever. So I will put nothing past an incompetent hospital or one in which the specialists are not talking to each other. But in this case it is out of my hands.
Mattie,
I'm sorry your friend reacted with hostility ... could be the stress of dealing with the situation, and definitely not something to take personally. And I understand your frustration with the hospital .... been there!
Here is my ESH:
By the time my late husband was at the stage of illness that your ex-AH is in, he had been told multiple times by multiple doctors that he had to abstain from alcohol due to his serious health issues. During one hospital stay, I insisted that he contact the chemical dependency program, which he had been given information about by the social worker, but he angrily refused.
Once I reached my bottom, I got into Al-Anon, but I didn't really talk to him about it ... just mentioned it to my adult daughter. Then she got into Al-Anon as well. One day she mentioned to her dad that she and mom were both going to Al-Anon meetings, and he asked, "Who's your alcoholic?" I guess he wasn't sure ;)
He became willing to have our daughter drive him to an AA meeting and an Al-Anon meeting, and afterwards he said that they seemed like nice people and he would be willing to go back. While he did not live long enough to go back, I learned that HP works in mysterious ways, and I consider this a miracle.
I didn't realize it at the time, but I was "letting go and letting God." Now I know I really did everything within my power, so I am at peace.
-- Edited by Freetime on Friday 23rd of June 2017 09:39:34 AM
Hi Mattie, give yourself a big Pat on the Back, and cut yourself some slack, you are doing the very best that you can, under extreme circumstances. Dealing with Alcoholism, is hard enough. It is so Powerful, as you will probably know. What I do, when faced with big decision, especially when it involves some one else. I ask God to help me, make the best decision that could be for me, and the other person, and if I am going the wrong way, to please stop me, and show me in no uncertain terms, which way,to go and what to do. All I am in charge of is, the Efforts, not the results,, for me, dealing with Alcoholism, there are no right or wrong ways to go, and most of our Decisions are pretty big. Trust Your Instincts, as to me, that is where My Gods talks/shows me what He wants from me. I pray for you and keep you in my Thoughts.