So my AW and I are pretty much co-habitating (her word) more or less peacefully these days. We really have almost no relationship. Just taking care of the kids. Our conversations are focused on the day to day workings of family and house. We both want something else. I have long dreamed of having a better relationship with her but nothing has ever seemed to work to make that happen. I knew it wasn't working before I found out about the alcohol problem a few months ago, now it's reaaallly not working.....I know both of our programs tell us not to make any drastic changes in the first year so we haven't. But I keep having the thought that once I hit my one year mark I'll begin taking steps to legally end a marriage that is already over in most other ways. I'm just biding my time.....I realize this now and worry about what this attitude might mean. Am I shooting myself in the foot? Using my Al Anon start date as a permission slip to end something that, maybe, could be good again? She's been in her program for several months and her initial energy has worn off. She used to be heading to mtgs with enthusiasm and that has disappeared. The only discernable change has been that she is trying to be more patient and courteous. No small thing I'm sure......But I'm just thinking hell, this much work and effort and she's only moved the meter a hair?! I can't F**g wait around forever for her to make these slight changes. I know I'm supposed to be looking at myself and I'm trying to do that. What I see is that when I'm interacting with other people I am better. I can be more honest, I'm not afraid of having my words used against me. I am less guarded. I am kind. I seek their input and give mine as well. It's just different.....So the next thought is that if I weren't in this marriage I could be this better person more often. I could someday have a relationship that wasn't this constant struggle. We could both heal from this and build new lives perhaps. I'll just keep working the program I guess. So far it's pretty helpful. I'd appreciate any ESH you might have.
-- Edited by hotrod on Wednesday 7th of June 2017 01:42:14 PM
SerenityRUS said
Jun 7, 2017
I think that some days are min by min, some days are hour at a time, some days are a 24 hour block at a time. Reality is only HP knows exactly what the future holds and if I can let go long enough to take a breath and realize that I am not alone in my thoughts, worries, and/or fears things don't look as bleak as I thought they were.
Divorce under the best of circumstances is emotionally expensive. For the moment I just encourage you to stick to your program regardless of what your AW is or is not doing .. it doesn't matter you said a mouthful when you said you noticed the change in you .. that's what is most important. Stick to your meetings .. stick to your program and recognize you have the right to change your mind at any given time. I know a few here who have successfully navigated staying in a relationship with an active A or staying with someone working a program not necessarily in a straight line.
You don't need to worry about the "end date" .. if it's going to happen it's going to happen. I think focusing on the moment and the good stuff will help ease the transition. I think about my daughter and her growing up going to college and I have to let go. I don't want to .. however it's just not an option .. so I can obsess about what "might" happen and all of the negative stuff that her going to college means. OR I can look at her and think the thought I have most of the time and that's what a lovely young woman I have had the opportunity to participate in raising. Give her over to HP and pray that she finds her way without to many bumps. I can continue the teachable moments and make those a joyful time for me to reflect back on as I watch her spread her wings. I really prefer that to worrying and obsessing about what if's what maybe's and should would could moments .. they are joy suckers.
Enjoy the moment .. slow down and appreciate the person you love right where they are at .. for me that has been the best lesson Alanon has really given me lately.
Hugs S :)
PS - that's not to say I have not invested in a roll of bubble wrap, duct tape, sound proofing a room, a saw and 3 dead bolts only I have the key for!!! :)
Stan1 said
Jun 7, 2017
Hello Westman if you have already determined that there is nothing left of your marriage then nothing said or done will change your mind. I can relate because at one time I wondered if ours could be salvaged after going through the stages and consequences of the disease and add in infidelity. How would happiness and most of all trust return? I figured if I was going to end up caring for myself I needed a tune up and learn how to care for myself. We were separated for nearly two years only seeing or contacting for Co parenting. Somehow as we both worked our programs we grew closer again and reunited and Saturday will be our 51st Anniversary. Maybe this paragraph from ODAT will give insight. " When I feel I must take a radical and irrevocable step, shouldn't I make sure I'm not motivated by resentment, hatred, anger? I will remind myself that once having taken a radical step, there is no turning back. Should I not try again, with the help of God and Al-Anon to improve my own capacity for dealing with my problems? " ODAT 5-16
-- Edited by Stan1 on Wednesday 7th of June 2017 03:57:09 PM
-- Edited by Stan1 on Wednesday 7th of June 2017 03:57:51 PM
WestMan said
Jun 7, 2017
Thanks for the replies. I don't believe that I'm motivated by anger or resentment although those feelings are present. But I'll continue to examine that. I believe we can both experience improvement through our programs. I also believe that there are no silver bullets, no one program or HP will fix everything. I seriously doubt it will even fix it to be just tolerable. The problems in our relationship would require a huge new way of being. As in either she would have to be a much much different person or I would have to be nearly comatose with meds to continue to endure....Stan your share does give hope. That you came back together after a two year separation is remarkable.
shrnp said
Jun 7, 2017
Westman,
Have you been working the 12 steps with anyone? They take on a different meaning when we work them with a sponsor or at a step meeting. It might make you feel as if you are more aware of your true self. There are things that might have nothing to do with your wife. Have you told your wife that you are thinking that a divorce is possible in the future? Some people have to go to counseling. I do not think that Alanon or AA should take the place of relationship counseling because they are to focus on yourself not your partner and visa versa.
_bunny_ said
Jun 7, 2017
((WestMan)) you are not alone, I question where my relationship with my AH is headed too. It's a question that has no answer and no amount of worrying is going to help me make a future decision. What I can do is live one day at a time and try not to project into the unknown. Just for today I can trust that I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be and I can trust that in the future I will also be exactly where I'm supposed to be. Just for today I can be aware and accepting of my inner struggle and be grateful to have my AH in my life to teach me compassion and patience. I'm thrilled to hear how working your program has given you back your sanity, take a moment and enjoy it, recovery is NOT easy and you're doing so great :)
Stan1 said
Jun 7, 2017
Thank you Westman. I totally understand that not all relationships can or should be fixed. Our separation just happened to be a huge awakening for me. I went from a financially dependant spouse with no credit or savings to a self sufficient independent woman. To this day I still maintain funds and credit in my name. I do believe a marriage needs to be between 2 people not battling over a third party (alcohol or other mind altering substance.
WestMan said
Jun 7, 2017
Hi Shrnp I've been going to meetings for just a couple months. I've met a few people but haven't gotten to know any well enough to know if I want to ask them to be my sponsor. A few people seem cool but I don't know how to tell if they're good with the program or not.
Iamhere said
Jun 8, 2017
Westman - great topic and I can so relate.....I wasn't sure how to express last night as I was very, very tired and had a long day with qualifiers and crazy - the tough days tend to affect my clarity so I try to be more self-focused.
As I consider my recovery, my marriage, my relationships, etc. this morning - a new beginning for my new life living One Day at a Time, I can say that I did feel as you felt. When I came to recovery, I was so angry, defeated and devalued. I had no intention of saving my marriage and actually had the means and plan to basically relocate and start 'over'.
Where I got redirected in 'my plan' was doing the steps with a sponsor. As I worked the 4th and 5th step, I saw patterns of how selfish and self-centered I could be. I truly had a fairy-tale expectation of what life, love, marriage, family should look like and had to be told it was not realistic. Leaving the marriage and starting over was always an option, but my sponsor encouraged me to keep looking for my own truth in recovery and to do it in a familiar environment. Even when my mind told me how insane my life was, I had to admit that it was reasonably predictable and familiar.
What I came to realize is I would have exactly what I had today if I didn't change, grow and heal. I had scars and wounds from my entire life up to this point that I brought with me to each relationship and encounter and many were distorted and destructive. I had to reinvent 'me' as a strong, independent, confident person....and as I worked on being me instead of being right through the program and the steps, much of my own self-serving sanctimonious approach to life melted away.
I found an imperfect person doing her best always to live life one day at a time, as peaceful as possible. I then had to realize that my view of me applies to every other person I encounter - in my home as well as on my journey - each day. While all see things different than I, I found I had more kindness and empathy for outsiders than those in my home. That did not feel 'good' as I found my true self.
My ego, pride and inability to forgive blocked me from many, many miracles in my life for a long time. I had to truly let go and let God in ALL areas as I came to believe each person, each event and each struggle came to me for a purpose. Today, I readily admit I have no idea what is best for me left to my own devices. Yet, if I pause long enough to consider 'best next steps' and ask for guidance from my HP, I am better able to make choices that align with my goals - serenity and sanity.
So - I never left. My marriage is good. There is room always for improvement in it, me and my AH. I don't ever feel stuck or as if I've settled. Instead, I look for what's good and working each day. My life is good, my recovery is good and we're all healthy. I'm grateful that I stayed put and where I am as it's allowed me to keep growing, learning and exploring what makes me tick!
I believe when we suggest folks wait a year to make big decisions, the intent is that we work all aspects of the program as best we can. This will give us clarity and restoration of sanity. Choices and decisions made with facts tend to work out better than those made with emotions. Keep doing your best with your recovery and you'll find your choices/answers in time.
As with all shares, take what you like and leave the rest!
Jerry F said
Jun 8, 2017
Westman ...good share and reminder. Been there and done that and then did lots of other stuff that made the situation much much better. Working with a sponsor who was very knowledgeable and also with women in recovery so that they could share their ESH about thoughts, feelings and behaviors with me helped me to see the picture of what I was dealing with and I found that my alcoholic/addict and myself were very similar regarding actions and reaction with the exception of age and gender experiences; meaning we often saw the picture close to similar and chose to react differently to it. When I got that down and then made the decisions that I didn't have to see it her way and then patronize it I was good. I detached and just watched and learned more as she did. The consequence became that we were different people with more skills in situations. This program works when you work it....Marvelous. Thanks for the share cause I could use this today. ((()))
Bo said
Jun 9, 2017
WestMan wrote:
So my AW and I are pretty much co-habitating (her word) more or less peacefully these days. We really have almost no relationship. Just taking care of the kids. Our conversations are focused on the day to day workings of family and house. We both want something else. I have long dreamed of having a better relationship with her but nothing has ever seemed to work to make that happen. I knew it wasn't working before I found out about the alcohol problem a few months ago, now it's reaaallly not working.....I know both of our programs tell us not to make any drastic changes in the first year so we haven't. But I keep having the thought that once I hit my one year mark I'll begin taking steps to legally end a marriage that is already over in most other ways. I'm just biding my time.....I realize this now and worry about what this attitude might mean. Am I shooting myself in the foot? Using my Al Anon start date as a permission slip to end something that, maybe, could be good again? She's been in her program for several months and her initial energy has worn off. She used to be heading to mtgs with enthusiasm and that has disappeared. The only discernable change has been that she is trying to be more patient and courteous. No small thing I'm sure......But I'm just thinking hell, this much work and effort and she's only moved the meter a hair?! I can't F**g wait around forever for her to make these slight changes. I know I'm supposed to be looking at myself and I'm trying to do that. What I see is that when I'm interacting with other people I am better. I can be more honest, I'm not afraid of having my words used against me. I am less guarded. I am kind. I seek their input and give mine as well. It's just different.....So the next thought is that if I weren't in this marriage I could be this better person more often. I could someday have a relationship that wasn't this constant struggle. We could both heal from this and build new lives perhaps. I'll just keep working the program I guess. So far it's pretty helpful. I'd appreciate any ESH you might have.
-- Edited by hotrod on Wednesday 7th of June 2017 01:42:14 PM
There is a simple answer for you...ONE DAY AT A TIME.
Think what you think every single day. You want to leave, stay, leave, stay, change your mind every single day. Doesn't matter. Why? You think it, surrender to it and you say "Just for today, I am leaving" or "Just for today, I am staying" -- live your life ONE DAY AT A TIME. It is not just a slogan.
Don't fight the pendulum. It's normal. It's OK. Surrender to it. You are powerless over feeling this way. Go through it. And let it go. One day at a time. One year from whenever, if you are ready, you will know exactly what to to...if you do the work every single day from now to one year from whenever.
Work with your sponsor on this. You are doing fine. Keep it up.
KT2015 said
Jun 9, 2017
Hi Westman,
Thank you for your honest share. I can relate to your post. I came to Al Anon with my bags packed ready to leave I was so fed up with my AH I was just wanting someone in my group to say "leave him". As you can guess no one did and so I decided to take the 6 months recommended before making any drastic changes. I was holding a lot of anger and resentment about his behaviour and what he was doing or not doing. I had myself a nice little list in my head of all the justifications to leave him yet I didn't leave. As I worked my program and talked to my sponsor I was able to let go of a lot of my resentments towards him and that was very freeing for me. Our relationship changed drastically and at times may have seemed quite dull but it brought me and my child a lot more peace and I am so grateful for that. A few months ago things got pretty bad between us. My AH was drinking a lot more and his anger could fill up a whole house. In the past I would have walked on egg shells or argued with him about his anger or tried to convince him not to be angry. But what really hit me was this thought, I have a right to be happy and so does he and right now neither of us is happy. So I talked to him about it. I told him I wasn't happy, he didn't appear happy and that I felt it wasn't worth going on like this anymore with this hostility between us and it would be better to end it. I wasn't trying to get him to change his behaviour at all I really meant what I said and when I said it and came to that conclusion I felt so much peace about it. I told him I still cared for him but if we continued this way we were going to end up hating each other and I really didn't want that. After some discussion he asked me to try one more time and I am but I am taking it one day at a time. I know how hard it is to make that decision and how lonely it can be in a marriage that seems so distant at times. You will know when you know I truly do believe that. Many many times I wanted to end it and it came out of a feeling of anger and frustration with my AH. Deep down I wanted a reaction from him. I wanted to say it to get his attention. When I actually discussed it with him it really did come out of a place of calm realization. I really did fully mean what I said and I was able to speak up and say what I mean. I didn't say it wanting any reaction from him I just wanted whatever happened to be smooth and calm. I did not get the reaction I expected. I am taking it one day at a time in my relationship and what I do now know is if it does end it will be smooth, calm and as amicable as possible. Keep working your program and focusing on you.
So my AW and I are pretty much co-habitating (her word) more or less peacefully these days. We really have almost no relationship. Just taking care of the kids. Our conversations are focused on the day to day workings of family and house. We both want something else. I have long dreamed of having a better relationship with her but nothing has ever seemed to work to make that happen. I knew it wasn't working before I found out about the alcohol problem a few months ago, now it's reaaallly not working.....I know both of our programs tell us not to make any drastic changes in the first year so we haven't. But I keep having the thought that once I hit my one year mark I'll begin taking steps to legally end a marriage that is already over in most other ways. I'm just biding my time.....I realize this now and worry about what this attitude might mean. Am I shooting myself in the foot? Using my Al Anon start date as a permission slip to end something that, maybe, could be good again? She's been in her program for several months and her initial energy has worn off. She used to be heading to mtgs with enthusiasm and that has disappeared. The only discernable change has been that she is trying to be more patient and courteous. No small thing I'm sure......But I'm just thinking hell, this much work and effort and she's only moved the meter a hair?! I can't F**g wait around forever for her to make these slight changes. I know I'm supposed to be looking at myself and I'm trying to do that. What I see is that when I'm interacting with other people I am better. I can be more honest, I'm not afraid of having my words used against me. I am less guarded. I am kind. I seek their input and give mine as well. It's just different.....So the next thought is that if I weren't in this marriage I could be this better person more often. I could someday have a relationship that wasn't this constant struggle. We could both heal from this and build new lives perhaps. I'll just keep working the program I guess. So far it's pretty helpful. I'd appreciate any ESH you might have.
-- Edited by hotrod on Wednesday 7th of June 2017 01:42:14 PM
Divorce under the best of circumstances is emotionally expensive. For the moment I just encourage you to stick to your program regardless of what your AW is or is not doing .. it doesn't matter you said a mouthful when you said you noticed the change in you .. that's what is most important. Stick to your meetings .. stick to your program and recognize you have the right to change your mind at any given time. I know a few here who have successfully navigated staying in a relationship with an active A or staying with someone working a program not necessarily in a straight line.
You don't need to worry about the "end date" .. if it's going to happen it's going to happen. I think focusing on the moment and the good stuff will help ease the transition. I think about my daughter and her growing up going to college and I have to let go. I don't want to .. however it's just not an option .. so I can obsess about what "might" happen and all of the negative stuff that her going to college means. OR I can look at her and think the thought I have most of the time and that's what a lovely young woman I have had the opportunity to participate in raising. Give her over to HP and pray that she finds her way without to many bumps. I can continue the teachable moments and make those a joyful time for me to reflect back on as I watch her spread her wings. I really prefer that to worrying and obsessing about what if's what maybe's and should would could moments .. they are joy suckers.
Enjoy the moment .. slow down and appreciate the person you love right where they are at .. for me that has been the best lesson Alanon has really given me lately.
Hugs S :)
PS - that's not to say I have not invested in a roll of bubble wrap, duct tape, sound proofing a room, a saw and 3 dead bolts only I have the key for!!! :)
Hello Westman if you have already determined that there is nothing left of your marriage then nothing said or done will change your mind. I can relate because at one time I wondered if ours could be salvaged after going through the stages and consequences of the disease and add in infidelity. How would happiness and most of all trust return? I figured if I was going to end up caring for myself I needed a tune up and learn how to care for myself. We were separated for nearly two years only seeing or contacting for Co parenting. Somehow as we both worked our programs we grew closer again and reunited and Saturday will be our 51st Anniversary. Maybe this paragraph from ODAT will give insight. " When I feel I must take a radical and irrevocable step, shouldn't I make sure I'm not motivated by resentment, hatred, anger? I will remind myself that once having taken a radical step, there is no turning back. Should I not try again, with the help of God and Al-Anon to improve my own capacity for dealing with my problems? " ODAT 5-16
-- Edited by Stan1 on Wednesday 7th of June 2017 03:57:09 PM
-- Edited by Stan1 on Wednesday 7th of June 2017 03:57:51 PM
Have you been working the 12 steps with anyone? They take on a different meaning when we work them with a sponsor or at a step meeting. It might make you feel as if you are more aware of your true self. There are things that might have nothing to do with your wife. Have you told your wife that you are thinking that a divorce is possible in the future? Some people have to go to counseling. I do not think that Alanon or AA should take the place of relationship counseling because they are to focus on yourself not your partner and visa versa.
As I consider my recovery, my marriage, my relationships, etc. this morning - a new beginning for my new life living One Day at a Time, I can say that I did feel as you felt. When I came to recovery, I was so angry, defeated and devalued. I had no intention of saving my marriage and actually had the means and plan to basically relocate and start 'over'.
Where I got redirected in 'my plan' was doing the steps with a sponsor. As I worked the 4th and 5th step, I saw patterns of how selfish and self-centered I could be. I truly had a fairy-tale expectation of what life, love, marriage, family should look like and had to be told it was not realistic. Leaving the marriage and starting over was always an option, but my sponsor encouraged me to keep looking for my own truth in recovery and to do it in a familiar environment. Even when my mind told me how insane my life was, I had to admit that it was reasonably predictable and familiar.
What I came to realize is I would have exactly what I had today if I didn't change, grow and heal. I had scars and wounds from my entire life up to this point that I brought with me to each relationship and encounter and many were distorted and destructive. I had to reinvent 'me' as a strong, independent, confident person....and as I worked on being me instead of being right through the program and the steps, much of my own self-serving sanctimonious approach to life melted away.
I found an imperfect person doing her best always to live life one day at a time, as peaceful as possible. I then had to realize that my view of me applies to every other person I encounter - in my home as well as on my journey - each day. While all see things different than I, I found I had more kindness and empathy for outsiders than those in my home. That did not feel 'good' as I found my true self.
My ego, pride and inability to forgive blocked me from many, many miracles in my life for a long time. I had to truly let go and let God in ALL areas as I came to believe each person, each event and each struggle came to me for a purpose. Today, I readily admit I have no idea what is best for me left to my own devices. Yet, if I pause long enough to consider 'best next steps' and ask for guidance from my HP, I am better able to make choices that align with my goals - serenity and sanity.
So - I never left. My marriage is good. There is room always for improvement in it, me and my AH. I don't ever feel stuck or as if I've settled. Instead, I look for what's good and working each day. My life is good, my recovery is good and we're all healthy. I'm grateful that I stayed put and where I am as it's allowed me to keep growing, learning and exploring what makes me tick!
I believe when we suggest folks wait a year to make big decisions, the intent is that we work all aspects of the program as best we can. This will give us clarity and restoration of sanity. Choices and decisions made with facts tend to work out better than those made with emotions. Keep doing your best with your recovery and you'll find your choices/answers in time.
As with all shares, take what you like and leave the rest!
Westman ...good share and reminder. Been there and done that and then did lots of other stuff that made the situation much much better. Working with a sponsor who was very knowledgeable and also with women in recovery so that they could share their ESH about thoughts, feelings and behaviors with me helped me to see the picture of what I was dealing with and I found that my alcoholic/addict and myself were very similar regarding actions and reaction with the exception of age and gender experiences; meaning we often saw the picture close to similar and chose to react differently to it. When I got that down and then made the decisions that I didn't have to see it her way and then patronize it I was good. I detached and just watched and learned more as she did. The consequence became that we were different people with more skills in situations. This program works when you work it....Marvelous. Thanks for the share cause I could use this today. (((
)))
There is a simple answer for you...ONE DAY AT A TIME.
Think what you think every single day. You want to leave, stay, leave, stay, change your mind every single day. Doesn't matter. Why? You think it, surrender to it and you say "Just for today, I am leaving" or "Just for today, I am staying" -- live your life ONE DAY AT A TIME. It is not just a slogan.
Don't fight the pendulum. It's normal. It's OK. Surrender to it. You are powerless over feeling this way. Go through it. And let it go. One day at a time. One year from whenever, if you are ready, you will know exactly what to to...if you do the work every single day from now to one year from whenever.
Work with your sponsor on this. You are doing fine. Keep it up.
Thank you for your honest share. I can relate to your post. I came to Al Anon with my bags packed ready to leave I was so fed up with my AH I was just wanting someone in my group to say "leave him". As you can guess no one did and so I decided to take the 6 months recommended before making any drastic changes. I was holding a lot of anger and resentment about his behaviour and what he was doing or not doing. I had myself a nice little list in my head of all the justifications to leave him yet I didn't leave. As I worked my program and talked to my sponsor I was able to let go of a lot of my resentments towards him and that was very freeing for me. Our relationship changed drastically and at times may have seemed quite dull but it brought me and my child a lot more peace and I am so grateful for that. A few months ago things got pretty bad between us. My AH was drinking a lot more and his anger could fill up a whole house. In the past I would have walked on egg shells or argued with him about his anger or tried to convince him not to be angry. But what really hit me was this thought, I have a right to be happy and so does he and right now neither of us is happy. So I talked to him about it. I told him I wasn't happy, he didn't appear happy and that I felt it wasn't worth going on like this anymore with this hostility between us and it would be better to end it. I wasn't trying to get him to change his behaviour at all I really meant what I said and when I said it and came to that conclusion I felt so much peace about it. I told him I still cared for him but if we continued this way we were going to end up hating each other and I really didn't want that. After some discussion he asked me to try one more time and I am but I am taking it one day at a time. I know how hard it is to make that decision and how lonely it can be in a marriage that seems so distant at times. You will know when you know I truly do believe that. Many many times I wanted to end it and it came out of a feeling of anger and frustration with my AH. Deep down I wanted a reaction from him. I wanted to say it to get his attention. When I actually discussed it with him it really did come out of a place of calm realization. I really did fully mean what I said and I was able to speak up and say what I mean. I didn't say it wanting any reaction from him I just wanted whatever happened to be smooth and calm. I did not get the reaction I expected. I am taking it one day at a time in my relationship and what I do now know is if it does end it will be smooth, calm and as amicable as possible. Keep working your program and focusing on you.