i read my posts and imagine how they sound to someone who doesn't know this man i've loved and held on to for so long.
and i know it looks bad (it IS bad). i think... but he's a good person, a good soul, sensitive, loving, etc.
the two are not mutually exclusive. but trying to reconcile the two is a bitch.
HOWEVER... i have often said ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. i thought my actions were loving and supportive. and patient, of course.
but of course...... i was setting my own needs and my own instinct aside, time and again, and enabling him (and the status quo).
so the realization... i have told him "actions speak louder than words" but i have not lived it (until now, having ended the relationship and having him move out permanently). for years, i have expressed my concern, warned him i can't stay with the status quo forever, but damn, did i have trouble taking action on it. because the action i had to take inhabits a world of "bottom" i have never had to deal with directly (homelessness, penniless, jobless, family-less, etc.).
talk about difficult consequences to see a loved one experience. i can barely wrap my mind around the darkness of it all.
i know there will be more challenges. but at least i acted. lord knows he's been acting and not acting (an action in its own way when it comes to managing a disease, no?) in a destructive manner for years... i have chosen to exit the quagmire.
now to get over the "shell shock."
Wednesday said
Jun 2, 2017
I agree. Always watch the actions. Words are meaningless. My AH is great at words. Knows all the right things to say. In the cold light of reality you will see where the priorities lie.
SerenityRUS said
Jun 2, 2017
My truth is I want to believe what the A is telling me .. he (in my case) is only watching my actions. I need to watch the actions and believe that if the words and the actions don't match there is something wrong with the situation for me. Hugs :)
hotrod said
Jun 3, 2017
Meetings, sponsors, trust a higher power enabled me not to project into the future but to take actions and let go the results. I must admit I have experienced the fact that my Higher Power is compassionate, empathetic, and although both my husband and son passed, I was given supportive opportunities to be there when it mattered most. I will be eternally grateful. Keep coming back
Iamhere said
Jun 3, 2017
I spent so much time focused beyond me for cause and answers that my head seemed to spin for a while in recovery. As I worked the steps, my fears, patterns, reactions, etc. became really apparent to me. I also realized that much of who I 'was' resulting from living with this disease was 'active' even with others who are not sick. I also had a disconnect between my words and my actions and the reconciliation became much easier by working the program to be best of my ability.
As Betty mentions, today I can reach for a tool and seek to understand 'me'. What is going on with me that has me seeing things different than they are. As I grew in recovery, I realized that all the events in my home were NOT done TO ME - I just thought it that way. I also had to fully digest and accept that there is no shame in loving an alcoholic. It's the disease that we dislike/hate, not the person. What WE as individuals can cope with and detach from differs and the best part of recovery is that we each get to work the program at our pace and progress is always the goal.
Lean into the program and use any/all tools available to deal/heal. I love that you're processing - use what you uncover to grow!!
Junenine said
Jun 4, 2017
thank you all. and yes, Iamhere... especially appreciate what you say about "seeing things different than they are" and that there's no shame in loving an alcoholic... so true.
Bo said
Jun 5, 2017
Junenine wrote:
i read my posts and imagine how they sound to someone who doesn't know this man i've loved and held on to for so long.
and i know it looks bad (it IS bad). i think... but he's a good person, a good soul, sensitive, loving, etc.
the two are not mutually exclusive. but trying to reconcile the two is a "b."
HOWEVER... i have often said ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. i thought my actions were loving and supportive. and patient, of course.
but of course...... i was setting my own needs and my own instinct aside, time and again, and enabling him (and the status quo).
so the realization... i have told him "actions speak louder than words" but i have not lived it (until now, having ended the relationship and having him move out permanently). for years, i have expressed my concern, warned him i can't stay with the status quo forever, but damn, did i have trouble taking action on it. because the action i had to take inhabits a world of "bottom" i have never had to deal with directly (homelessness, penniless, jobless, family-less, etc.).
talk about difficult consequences to see a loved one experience. i can barely wrap my mind around the darkness of it all.
i know there will be more challenges. but at least i acted. lord knows he's been acting and not acting (an action in its own way when it comes to managing a disease, no?) in a destructive manner for years... i have chosen to exit the quagmire.
now to get over the "shell shock."
So, the two are not mutually exclusive...OK...but is that absolute? What I mean, and I've struggled with, are they not mutually exclusive...always? For one day? Two? A "bad" or "rough" month? Six months? And so on. Because of that, and other things -- I too had trouble taking action so to speak. What concerned me -- actually what scared me -- was that while the two are not mutually exclusive, it is a slippery slope. The "she's a good person" and all that goes along with it -- turns into denial. It turns into "when she's sober, she's amazing" or "when she's sober, everything is great" and "that's not the person I married" and so on and so on. It turns into me -- denial, rationalizing, vacillating, justifying, and, ultimately, me accepting the unacceptable. Me tolerating the intolerable.
We've seen people somehow "figure out" how to make life "bearable" and they somewhat built their own life, a life outside the marriage, a separate life, and all that. I get it. Everyone's case is different. I, me, I was not going to be in a "part time" marriage. I wasn't going to settle. My life, my marriage was "a certain way" before the disease of alcoholism took over...and I could not, would not, and wasn't going to "settle" for anything short of that, after alcoholism took over. I looked at and was told how life was going to be, had to be, etc. --because my AW made decisions as to how she was going to live her life -- and then I made my decisions. We could not make decisions collectively...so we had to make decisions individually. If that makes sense, LOL. I just saw and knew how I was not going to live my life.
Yes, this can be a quagmire, a slippery slope, and very "gray" -- denial, excuses, ignoring, settling, etc. This program gives us the ability to have more, to have it all...if we want it. Thanks.
-- Edited by hotrod on Monday 5th of June 2017 06:47:57 AM
Junenine said
Jun 5, 2017
thanks, Bo. totally makes sense to me (all you say, and about the need to make individual decisions). the mutually exclusive thing, on the other hand, does not totally make sense to me... been struggling with it, still am... but it just might be that i'm trying to make sense out of insanity and "reconcile" something that is impossible. love the person, hate the disease... until the combination poisons your life, relationship, happiness, hope for a healthy future. until you feel like a doormat all in the name of love? no.
i also kept waiting for things to go back to how they were before alcoholism took over. i think i understand why i kept waiting and maintained hope, etc... until i couldn't.
Bo said
Jun 5, 2017
Junenine wrote:
thanks, Bo. totally makes sense to me (all you say, and about the need to make individual decisions). the mutually exclusive thing, on the other hand, does not totally make sense to me... been struggling with it, still am... but it just might be that i'm trying to make sense out of insanity and "reconcile" something that is impossible. love the person, hate the disease... until the combination poisons your life, relationship, happiness, hope for a healthy future. until you feel like a doormat all in the name of love? no.
i also kept waiting for things to go back to how they were before alcoholism took over. i think i understand why i kept waiting and maintained hope, etc... until i couldn't.
So, I get the two are not mutually exclusive -- but they can't be not mutually exclusive forever. An alcoholic is not a bad person, even if they never find recovery. OK, got that. However, that doesn't mean it's healthy for me to live with, be involved with, be married to, etc., that person forever.
I don't think either is important. I love her. But she is an alcoholic, cheating on me, stealing, etc. Yes, she's sick, but it is what it is.
What matters to me is when the I love her starts becoming the reason for me making excuses, denial, and so on. That is unhealthy for me. I love her. I love the sober her. When she's sober, she's fine, she's great, etc. If that's good enough for some people, great, I am happy for you. If that's not good enough for some, that's great too, and I am happy for you as well. I was in the latter. Yes, I loved her, period. But I could not live my life that way. I could not be in that part-time things are good mode. Not compared to what it was before alcohol took over.
-- Edited by Bo on Monday 5th of June 2017 12:11:29 PM
2HP said
Jun 5, 2017
If I'm understanding correctly, your post suggests a failure mentality to me... ?
You must know that before any of us... any of us..... arrive at honesty and acceptance of our utter powerlessness, there is denial.
That is reality.
No shame in not getting it sooner than you did. Our recovery foundation is built on TRUST in Higher Power and TRUST in a process that has to unfold precisely as it does, taking just as long as it has to take and we consider this "perfect timing" and "god's timing." (changed attitudes aid recovery)
but I do relate to initially turning on myself when I understood that I played a part in my own suffering, particularly realizing these were "choices" I had made, signing up for victimhood time and time again.
I own it but learned to avoid the self-loathing and shame and perfectionism because it does not contribute to a quality relationship with self or Higher Power. this thinking causes even more "dis-ease" and it is a sure sign of going backwards in recovery.
When you do steps 4-5 with your sponsor, I am confident that you will find as I did, that you yourself have good and bad qualities, no different than the alcoholic addict because in every human being there is good and bad. In Al-anon, we are guided to simply see this inventory in ourselves and to love and accept it as our human nature.
I was taught the seventh step prayer where we say, "God, I am now willing that you should have all of me, good and bad..." That prayer told me that God can (and does) use good and bad in others, including my alcoholic, to help me grow. God is brilliant. and in this way, my alcoholic husband was a perfect teacher for me.
we each decide for ourselves whether staying in the relationship provides the best environment for mind, body, spirit to grow, or whether we must leave. this determination simply takes time, it took me over 20 years. I had to learn to what degree I could detach from what was happening in my personal home because al-anon does not go into specifics. I had to figure it out for myself. if they had spelled everything out FOR ME.... what need would I have to seek a Higher Power? which to me, is the definition of
"having it all."
You are doing great, my friend. EASY DOES IT as we say because "hard" does not work.
Following our separation, I used this mantra almost constantly to give my mind something more positive to hold on to... I would say it repeatedly until I believed it and when I forgot again, I'd say it again. perhaps there is a mantra that you like to use? take good care.
"All shall be well
And all shall be well
And all manner of things shall be well."
Bo said
Jun 5, 2017
Junenine wrote:
thanks, Bo. totally makes sense to me (all you say, and about the need to make individual decisions). the mutually exclusive thing, on the other hand, does not totally make sense to me... been struggling with it, still am... but it just might be that i'm trying to make sense out of insanity and "reconcile" something that is impossible. love the person, hate the disease... until the combination poisons your life, relationship, happiness, hope for a healthy future. until you feel like a doormat all in the name of love? no.
i also kept waiting for things to go back to how they were before alcoholism took over. i think i understand why i kept waiting and maintained hope, etc... until i couldn't.
Also, the more you try and figure it out -- the more you drive yourself crazy. Focus on you, what's best, healthy for you. Loving the person (as in hating the disease) may not provide the answer to everyone. I don't know if things can go back to the way it was before for you. I know for me, I wanted that as well, and I gave it every chance, over and over again, time and time again...but it didn't. Each case, person is different.
el-cee said
Jun 5, 2017
An interesting post, thanks for it. I think the fact you havent became bitter and twisted and filled with hate is a good thing. I did. I would never have written my ex was a good man because I thought he was a bad man, that was my lack of understanding of the disease of alcoholism. I know now he was never bad he was sick, my black and white thinking had a good list and a bad list and he was most definitely in the bad list. Its up to you to find if you thinking hes a good man is due to your own black and white thinking or denial or if you do understand hes sick.
Another part of my own sick thinking meant he was firmly in this bad list in my mind with all those bad behaviours and traits and then there was me, an angel in the good list with a whole list of evidence of how good I was when in fact my goodness had also went wonky and was not a realistic assessment of either him nor me. So in my good list I thought I was kind and supportive, yes but having got distorted it turned into martyrdom and making a victim of myself.
After a short time in Alanon i began to see the grey areas and its that that set me free of all sorts of crap thinking. Talk is cheap and I like that your trying to live by your mantra, actions speak louder than words.
Iamhere said
Jun 5, 2017
I believe that the only constant in life is change. No two people are the same today as they were yesterday, and change will happen again tomorrow. If not the players, then outside forces. In recovery, we are asked to not focus or dwell on the past. It's gone, never to be seen again - good or bad - and today is where the blessing is.
I was very angry and hurt when I arrived. I spent tons of time focusing on the evils of the disease and the diseased until I embraced the program and how powerless I was over others. As I worked the steps, I realized that I went from a happy, confident, smiling, intelligent woman to a nervous, worried, anxious, snappy control freak during our marriage. My point - we both changed. We both could walk at any time. We both could recover at any time.
In spite of the disease, I and my qualifier(s) have changed, grown and matured....there is always good with the bad - which is why recovery suggests we get to detach with love and set boundaries that work for us. Some stay and some go. Some recover and some do not. Some find joy; others remain crazy/bitter. The power of recovery is we get sanity restored to make choices best for ourselves.
If I wanted to be told what to do, I'd go see a counselor who is an expert in these situations. We did that and I was still not whole as I was affected by this disease and needed to see what it is about me that 'puts' me here in the first place. For me, this was not my first dysfunctional relationship. This was not my first go-around with an alcoholic. The steps helped me see that I gravitated towards the 'needy person in the room' for a variety of reasons...
Until I healed myself, my patterns continued in life. As I worked on recovery, I was able to stay in my marriage as the good still outweighed the bad. What I realized is even with the best marriage in the world, there will be good times, bad times, sickness, health, poor choices, financial issues, etc. I now believe my joy comes from the journey and not from my fairy-tale ideas of what marriage, life, children, etc. should look like. I am 100% comfortable in my home with my AH. I am 100% comfortable in my relationships with my A Sons. I have other relatives that are also A(s) - if my recovery called for me to step away from all the A(s) in my life, I'd be a lonely woman. Like Jerry, I was born into the disease and it's all around me. So - I choose to live and let live and detach as often as necessary.
Enjoy YOUR journey. Find YOUR peace and joy. For me, as I changed, so did things around me. It does work when we work it.
Junenine said
Jun 5, 2017
i really appreciate all of your comments and insights. thankful for you all.
Bo - i totally agree and relate re everything esp. denial. i also gave many chances, stayed long enough to see patterns repeat and repeat... nobody can say i didn't give it my all.
2HP - thank you for your support and your words about shame and signing up for victimhood. i'm think i'm beginning to understand what recovery really means for me.
el-cee - i've been in a state of confusion about this (disease v person). because to me he seems like three people... so i'm still processing it all. this is my first experience with addiction and separating the person from the disease does not feel very straightforward to me, but i'm trying. ultimately though, it's time for me to do what i need for myself regardless of the answer to that question.
Iamhere - yes - absolutely, we both changed as well, just like you describe. and i am definitely looking at and aware of my patterns. i have them, too. i am determined to heal and change my patterns because i do NOT want a repeat performance of these problems... i'd rather be alone.
Bo said
Jun 6, 2017
I feel there is another element here, at least for me. Perhaps it's upbringing, occupation, training, schooling, simply who I am, who knows -- there is often a sense, when I am so called "wronged" or when someone does something wrong to me, when I've done all the right things for them, or when I am treated poorly and don't deserve it...so, two things...first, I don't go into analysis mode. Second, often, I feel certain things. One is I want an answer. Why? No analysis, but immediate thinking is why. Then I get past that, and then, second, I want to be heard. I want to be vocal and go on record -- and I say with no expectations -- but they are there. They are deep. It's been proven to me, LOL. Third, I beat myself up for accepting unacceptable behavior, even for a second longer than it was. LOL.
Anyway, all of this, and more, sometimes I find myself in the "answer" mode. There has to be an answer. However, there is not. This is an insidious, progressive, baffling, enigmatic, cunning, and frustrating disease. Alcoholism, drug addiction, co-dependency, and more. The more you look for the ever-elusive answer, the more you drive yourself crazy -- frustration, anger, resentment, fear, and more perhaps.
Keep coming back.
Junenine said
Jun 7, 2017
i hear you, Bo. i myself have a - sometimes very - delayed reaction to being wronged. i do go into analysis mode (not of myself, but of the situation or the "wrong")... cuz often i know it has nothing to do with me. and i'm trying not to beat myself up... that comes and goes. i'm gaining clarity with time... and i'm just at the beginning of this chapter.
and your description of the insidious disease... damn straight.
Kmt said
Jun 11, 2017
Hi first time writer. I appreciate your comments. I am just realizing how my reaction to my AH is actually making things worse. We have been married 10 yrs never knew him when he was drinking. Unfortunately life threw us some curve balls including loosing a business, me getting cancer then surgery then loosing job. Him not working and he became paralyzed to help me. He started drinking, got a addict girlfriend actively using, and then started he started using. Got rid of the girlfriend and came back home, but still using. I am so angry!. I love him don't know why but I do. I am back to work, he is not. He says all the right things when he wants something from me but his actions are the opposite he never finishes what he says he will do. I need help to change me and my reaction to him. I believe my higher power can help. I need support for others who have been there too. Thanks for listening.
Iamhere said
Jun 11, 2017
Kmt - welcome to MIP - glad you found us and glad that you shared. So very sorry for all that you've been through and are going through. Alcoholism is a disease that is progressive and destructive - as you are aware - in the drinker as well as those who love them. Al-Anon is a recovery program for friends and family when the drinking is creating problems in our lives, and you will find support, help and hope in the program....you are free to attend whether the alcoholic in your life is in recovery or not.
Please keep coming back and take good care of you. We are indeed powerless over others, but are not powerless over ourselves. (((Hugs)))
COlinda65 said
Jun 11, 2017
Wow. I really like that. I need to make that realization. When my senses and his words don't match, then something is not right for me...
thank you you for that.
Iamhere said
Jun 11, 2017
Hello COLinda65 and welcome to MIP! Glad you found us and joined right in! Keep coming back...
Junenine said
Jun 12, 2017
hi, Kmt. welcome. i can relate and i'm sure many others can, too. all the best to you. keep coming back. hugs.
Junenine said
Jun 12, 2017
hi, COlinda65 - we live and we learn, hopefully. sometimes it's really hard to have perspective from the inside of a relationship. all the best to you.
i read my posts and imagine how they sound to someone who doesn't know this man i've loved and held on to for so long.
and i know it looks bad (it IS bad). i think... but he's a good person, a good soul, sensitive, loving, etc.
the two are not mutually exclusive. but trying to reconcile the two is a bitch.
HOWEVER... i have often said ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. i thought my actions were loving and supportive. and patient, of course.
but of course...... i was setting my own needs and my own instinct aside, time and again, and enabling him (and the status quo).
so the realization... i have told him "actions speak louder than words" but i have not lived it (until now, having ended the relationship and having him move out permanently). for years, i have expressed my concern, warned him i can't stay with the status quo forever, but damn, did i have trouble taking action on it. because the action i had to take inhabits a world of "bottom" i have never had to deal with directly (homelessness, penniless, jobless, family-less, etc.).
talk about difficult consequences to see a loved one experience. i can barely wrap my mind around the darkness of it all.
i know there will be more challenges. but at least i acted. lord knows he's been acting and not acting (an action in its own way when it comes to managing a disease, no?) in a destructive manner for years... i have chosen to exit the quagmire.
now to get over the "shell shock."
Meetings, sponsors, trust a higher power enabled me not to project into the future but to take actions and let go the results. I must admit I have experienced the fact that my Higher Power is compassionate, empathetic, and although both my husband and son passed, I was given supportive opportunities to be there when it mattered most. I will be eternally grateful. Keep coming back
As Betty mentions, today I can reach for a tool and seek to understand 'me'. What is going on with me that has me seeing things different than they are. As I grew in recovery, I realized that all the events in my home were NOT done TO ME - I just thought it that way. I also had to fully digest and accept that there is no shame in loving an alcoholic. It's the disease that we dislike/hate, not the person. What WE as individuals can cope with and detach from differs and the best part of recovery is that we each get to work the program at our pace and progress is always the goal.
Lean into the program and use any/all tools available to deal/heal. I love that you're processing - use what you uncover to grow!!
thank you all. and yes, Iamhere... especially appreciate what you say about "seeing things different than they are" and that there's no shame in loving an alcoholic... so true.
So, the two are not mutually exclusive...OK...but is that absolute? What I mean, and I've struggled with, are they not mutually exclusive...always? For one day? Two? A "bad" or "rough" month? Six months? And so on. Because of that, and other things -- I too had trouble taking action so to speak. What concerned me -- actually what scared me -- was that while the two are not mutually exclusive, it is a slippery slope. The "she's a good person" and all that goes along with it -- turns into denial. It turns into "when she's sober, she's amazing" or "when she's sober, everything is great" and "that's not the person I married" and so on and so on. It turns into me -- denial, rationalizing, vacillating, justifying, and, ultimately, me accepting the unacceptable. Me tolerating the intolerable.
We've seen people somehow "figure out" how to make life "bearable" and they somewhat built their own life, a life outside the marriage, a separate life, and all that. I get it. Everyone's case is different. I, me, I was not going to be in a "part time" marriage. I wasn't going to settle. My life, my marriage was "a certain way" before the disease of alcoholism took over...and I could not, would not, and wasn't going to "settle" for anything short of that, after alcoholism took over. I looked at and was told how life was going to be, had to be, etc. --because my AW made decisions as to how she was going to live her life -- and then I made my decisions. We could not make decisions collectively...so we had to make decisions individually. If that makes sense, LOL. I just saw and knew how I was not going to live my life.
Yes, this can be a quagmire, a slippery slope, and very "gray" -- denial, excuses, ignoring, settling, etc. This program gives us the ability to have more, to have it all...if we want it. Thanks.
-- Edited by hotrod on Monday 5th of June 2017 06:47:57 AM
thanks, Bo. totally makes sense to me (all you say, and about the need to make individual decisions). the mutually exclusive thing, on the other hand, does not totally make sense to me... been struggling with it, still am... but it just might be that i'm trying to make sense out of insanity and "reconcile" something that is impossible. love the person, hate the disease... until the combination poisons your life, relationship, happiness, hope for a healthy future. until you feel like a doormat all in the name of love? no.
i also kept waiting for things to go back to how they were before alcoholism took over. i think i understand why i kept waiting and maintained hope, etc... until i couldn't.
So, I get the two are not mutually exclusive -- but they can't be not mutually exclusive forever. An alcoholic is not a bad person, even if they never find recovery. OK, got that. However, that doesn't mean it's healthy for me to live with, be involved with, be married to, etc., that person forever.
I don't think either is important. I love her. But she is an alcoholic, cheating on me, stealing, etc. Yes, she's sick, but it is what it is.
What matters to me is when the I love her starts becoming the reason for me making excuses, denial, and so on. That is unhealthy for me. I love her. I love the sober her. When she's sober, she's fine, she's great, etc. If that's good enough for some people, great, I am happy for you. If that's not good enough for some, that's great too, and I am happy for you as well. I was in the latter. Yes, I loved her, period. But I could not live my life that way. I could not be in that part-time things are good mode. Not compared to what it was before alcohol took over.
-- Edited by Bo on Monday 5th of June 2017 12:11:29 PM
If I'm understanding correctly, your post suggests a failure mentality to me... ?
You must know that before any of us... any of us..... arrive at honesty and acceptance of our utter powerlessness, there is denial.
That is reality.
No shame in not getting it sooner than you did. Our recovery foundation is built on TRUST in Higher Power and TRUST in a process that has to unfold precisely as it does, taking just as long as it has to take and we consider this "perfect timing" and "god's timing." (changed attitudes aid recovery)
but I do relate to initially turning on myself when I understood that I played a part in my own suffering, particularly realizing these were "choices" I had made, signing up for victimhood time and time again.
I own it but learned to avoid the self-loathing and shame and perfectionism because it does not contribute to a quality relationship with self or Higher Power. this thinking causes even more "dis-ease" and it is a sure sign of going backwards in recovery.
When you do steps 4-5 with your sponsor, I am confident that you will find as I did, that you yourself have good and bad qualities, no different than the alcoholic addict because in every human being there is good and bad. In Al-anon, we are guided to simply see this inventory in ourselves and to love and accept it as our human nature.
I was taught the seventh step prayer where we say, "God, I am now willing that you should have all of me, good and bad..." That prayer told me that God can (and does) use good and bad in others, including my alcoholic, to help me grow. God is brilliant. and in this way, my alcoholic husband was a perfect teacher for me.
we each decide for ourselves whether staying in the relationship provides the best environment for mind, body, spirit to grow, or whether we must leave. this determination simply takes time, it took me over 20 years. I had to learn to what degree I could detach from what was happening in my personal home because al-anon does not go into specifics. I had to figure it out for myself. if they had spelled everything out FOR ME.... what need would I have to seek a Higher Power? which to me, is the definition of
"having it all."
You are doing great, my friend. EASY DOES IT as we say because "hard" does not work.
Following our separation, I used this mantra almost constantly to give my mind something more positive to hold on to... I would say it repeatedly until I believed it and when I forgot again, I'd say it again. perhaps there is a mantra that you like to use? take good care.
"All shall be well
And all shall be well
And all manner of things shall be well."
Also, the more you try and figure it out -- the more you drive yourself crazy. Focus on you, what's best, healthy for you. Loving the person (as in hating the disease) may not provide the answer to everyone. I don't know if things can go back to the way it was before for you. I know for me, I wanted that as well, and I gave it every chance, over and over again, time and time again...but it didn't. Each case, person is different.
An interesting post, thanks for it. I think the fact you havent became bitter and twisted and filled with hate is a good thing. I did. I would never have written my ex was a good man because I thought he was a bad man, that was my lack of understanding of the disease of alcoholism. I know now he was never bad he was sick, my black and white thinking had a good list and a bad list and he was most definitely in the bad list. Its up to you to find if you thinking hes a good man is due to your own black and white thinking or denial or if you do understand hes sick.
Another part of my own sick thinking meant he was firmly in this bad list in my mind with all those bad behaviours and traits and then there was me, an angel in the good list with a whole list of evidence of how good I was when in fact my goodness had also went wonky and was not a realistic assessment of either him nor me. So in my good list I thought I was kind and supportive, yes but having got distorted it turned into martyrdom and making a victim of myself.
After a short time in Alanon i began to see the grey areas and its that that set me free of all sorts of crap thinking. Talk is cheap and I like that your trying to live by your mantra, actions speak louder than words.
I was very angry and hurt when I arrived. I spent tons of time focusing on the evils of the disease and the diseased until I embraced the program and how powerless I was over others. As I worked the steps, I realized that I went from a happy, confident, smiling, intelligent woman to a nervous, worried, anxious, snappy control freak during our marriage. My point - we both changed. We both could walk at any time. We both could recover at any time.
In spite of the disease, I and my qualifier(s) have changed, grown and matured....there is always good with the bad - which is why recovery suggests we get to detach with love and set boundaries that work for us. Some stay and some go. Some recover and some do not. Some find joy; others remain crazy/bitter. The power of recovery is we get sanity restored to make choices best for ourselves.
If I wanted to be told what to do, I'd go see a counselor who is an expert in these situations. We did that and I was still not whole as I was affected by this disease and needed to see what it is about me that 'puts' me here in the first place. For me, this was not my first dysfunctional relationship. This was not my first go-around with an alcoholic. The steps helped me see that I gravitated towards the 'needy person in the room' for a variety of reasons...
Until I healed myself, my patterns continued in life. As I worked on recovery, I was able to stay in my marriage as the good still outweighed the bad. What I realized is even with the best marriage in the world, there will be good times, bad times, sickness, health, poor choices, financial issues, etc. I now believe my joy comes from the journey and not from my fairy-tale ideas of what marriage, life, children, etc. should look like. I am 100% comfortable in my home with my AH. I am 100% comfortable in my relationships with my A Sons. I have other relatives that are also A(s) - if my recovery called for me to step away from all the A(s) in my life, I'd be a lonely woman. Like Jerry, I was born into the disease and it's all around me. So - I choose to live and let live and detach as often as necessary.
Enjoy YOUR journey. Find YOUR peace and joy. For me, as I changed, so did things around me. It does work when we work it.
i really appreciate all of your comments and insights. thankful for you all.
Bo - i totally agree and relate re everything esp. denial. i also gave many chances, stayed long enough to see patterns repeat and repeat... nobody can say i didn't give it my all.
2HP - thank you for your support and your words about shame and signing up for victimhood. i'm think i'm beginning to understand what recovery really means for me.
el-cee - i've been in a state of confusion about this (disease v person). because to me he seems like three people... so i'm still processing it all. this is my first experience with addiction and separating the person from the disease does not feel very straightforward to me, but i'm trying. ultimately though, it's time for me to do what i need for myself regardless of the answer to that question.
Iamhere - yes - absolutely, we both changed as well, just like you describe. and i am definitely looking at and aware of my patterns. i have them, too. i am determined to heal and change my patterns because i do NOT want a repeat performance of these problems... i'd rather be alone.
Anyway, all of this, and more, sometimes I find myself in the "answer" mode. There has to be an answer. However, there is not. This is an insidious, progressive, baffling, enigmatic, cunning, and frustrating disease. Alcoholism, drug addiction, co-dependency, and more. The more you look for the ever-elusive answer, the more you drive yourself crazy -- frustration, anger, resentment, fear, and more perhaps.
Keep coming back.
i hear you, Bo. i myself have a - sometimes very - delayed reaction to being wronged. i do go into analysis mode (not of myself, but of the situation or the "wrong")... cuz often i know it has nothing to do with me. and i'm trying not to beat myself up... that comes and goes. i'm gaining clarity with time... and i'm just at the beginning of this chapter.
and your description of the insidious disease... damn straight.
Please keep coming back and take good care of you. We are indeed powerless over others, but are not powerless over ourselves. (((Hugs)))
Wow. I really like that. I need to make that realization. When my senses and his words don't match, then something is not right for me...
thank you you for that.
hi, Kmt. welcome. i can relate and i'm sure many others can, too. all the best to you. keep coming back. hugs.
hi, COlinda65 - we live and we learn, hopefully. sometimes it's really hard to have perspective from the inside of a relationship. all the best to you.