I'm in something of a turmoil right now. A couple of days ago I left our apartment late at night, after a very ugly hour at home. To cut a long story short, he went into a rage, thrashing things, eventually ripping the blanket from me where I was trying to sleep in my bed, telling me he won't let me sleep and I just HAD TO come and make the chicken with him. There was name calling and blaming involved as well. I won't get into the details, they probably don't really matter anyway, but it was BAD. What is really important for me, however, is the fact that he didn't let me sleep when I wanted and needed it, for the third night in the row, and then I got all the other craziness I mentioned when I refused to get up from bed.
At one point he said "Get out", and I figured I would, and should. I wanted to sleep, and it looked like he just wouldn't let me, so I might as well spend a little time getting somewhere I could sleep in peace afterwards. I grabbed the essentials, toothbrush, some underwear, some important documents, and was off. Before I went through the door, he asked something along the lines "why are you leaving" (lol). I said "you told me to get out". He denied. I said "well, then, I'm leaving anyway". I left.
Regarding this moment of leaving: a day before these events I went to a meeting (I have re-started them again, thank you all for encouraging me to get back to them!) and also shared with the group a very recent discovery I made about "why I am taking this crap from him". What I realized was this: a big part of why I was taking all that was cowardice - I don't want to be the one leaving him, because then I would be to blame for our separation, I would be the instigator, I would be the "bad guy". I was deep down afraid of this, and what's more - I was successfully hiding my cowardice from myself. I am grateful that I got to understand this about myself, but the realization didn't come easily and without some pain. I felt embarrassed at first to share this in the meeting, but afterwards I felt incredible relief. I am now sharing this here, so maybe my experience might be useful to someone else as well.
Cutting the story back to now. I can no longer deny that, in large part, it has been cowardice that has kept me from leaving my abf. Yes, I do love him, and yes, Alanon has given me tools and strength to take care of myself again, but these to reasons that had me staying are part of the three, the third being this fear of being the dumper, the one to blame (might be all in my head; I know his mother won't blame me, she has told me she would understand my decision, if it would be to leave). I've accepted this fear, it's still there. And with this acceptance I came to this: if I am to take care of my health and mental well-being, I can't stay with my abf if he is drinking. It is just too damaging to me, and my sleep is really important to me. I know there are people who can sleep 6 hours and go like this for days and maybe even weeks, but I need about 8 hours to be in my best form, and I don't mind more :) I just like to be really, really rested, it brings better quality to my waking hours.
So I spoke to my abf over the phone and told him I'm not coming back, and that if and when he decided to begin some sort of recovery program, then I will consider staying with him. He says he doesn't want to talk about things like that over the phone and asking me to come over. I refused to come over the weekend, we half-agreed to meet next Tuesday evening. I will be in the area, because I have a doctor's appointment that afternoon in a nearby clinic. I don't really want to see him right now, for one thing, and for another, I'm sort of afraid talking to him in person will muddle up my resolve. I don't want to go back to the same situation I left, because if nothing changes, nothing changes. This was shown clearly to me about a month ago, when I left, came back, and all hell broke lose eventually, again. I wouldn't have thought of no-drinking to stay together as a possible boundary I would come up with even a week ago - I previously thought something like "it's his family's flat, I can't ask him to not drink in his own property, I have no right" etc. Now this seems like the only way, and I'm not asking him to do anything, really, so I know this is a real boundary for me, not a threat to him, or an ultimatum. It feels sort of weird, how my mind has changed, but also I feel this is right for me, and maybe even for him.
I haven't really promised to meet him. I'm not entirely sure I should, though it feels like I "owe" this to him, to speak in person - maybe it's that I love him (the sober him), maybe there's some pride involved as well, I'm not sure yet. But maybe I simply should not meet him YET? I have made a new note in my phone: things to read when I'm beginning to doubt my boundary, designed to read through before speaking to him in person. I'm still not entirely sure this is a fool-proof thing, though.
This is HARD. My mind tries to find another way, to cheat my way out of leaving and respecting my own boundary I really need respected. The good thing is, I realize that now. The bad thing is, I don't realize it 100% of the time.
I think I will go to an extra meeting on Monday, it's a bit further away and I will be home late, but I think I need it.
I would really appreciate if you had some ESH on this.
SerenityRUS said
May 20, 2017
My first ex was a drug addict and when I left wanted to meet .. I would not meet him in private. I would be happy to have a cup of coffee in a populated place however nothing secluded or just us. I felt my safety was important and when I left he had beaten me. Well.. He didn't like that idea so we never met again. This is totally my stuff however based upon what you have shared this isn't an isolated incident and I encourage you not to meet privately. Art least publicly people tend to be less likely to act out . there's not a guarantee however at least there is that decorum plus I have found there is safety in numbers. If you are in doubt .. Don't .. You have the right to say no. If you are getting your stuff have a group with you. Hugs S ;)
Enigmatic said
May 20, 2017
Hi Aline, so glad to hear you are using the program for strength, encouragement, and sharing with fellow members...Fantastic! Especially early on, I found great strength by attending as many meetings I could fit in my schedule, it really helped me solidify some of the new thoughts and habits from the program.
As always, your safety and wellbeing are paramount, please continue to safeguard them. I did find writing my thoughts, realizations, and desired course of action helped me stick to them during times of uncertainty. It can be very confusing when trying to maintain healthier perspectives and boundaries when challenged by someone who is struggling with their own disease.
Hang in there and keep working your program
Iamhere said
May 20, 2017
I'm reminded of the slogan - when in doubt....don't. If you read back over what you've shared, you have needs (sleep) for a quality life and those needs are not respected or met when you are with the alcohol/alcoholic. We have the right to love whomever we choose and we have the right to have peace and joy and serenity in our days.
You are working your recovery and trust the process. I am sending you positive energy and prayers - it's hard to create boundaries and stick to them but it's so worth it!
YARNCRAZY said
May 20, 2017
gfu
Jerry F said
May 21, 2017
Aloha Aline and thanks for the post I appreciate all examples of how it works and how to work it because that is how deeply needy I was for peace of mind, serenity and sanity when I finally arrived. I listened to everything from everyone and the program gave me permission to "take what I liked and leave the rest...for later" Our program is awesome and if we keep and open mind we will find help (promise). Early on I found help in the abbreviated presentation of the 12 steps reduced to 3 only. "Trust God, Clean House, Help Others" and that was keeping it as simple as it was given to me. You're doing good...just keep duplicating what you have been doing and what others do that works for them and keep coming back. ((((hugs))))
Aline said
May 21, 2017
Thank you so much for your shares! Meanwhile, I have slept on it, and I feel the very process of sharing my thoughts and doubts here on the board has helped solidify my resolve. Have a great Sunday, I'm visiting my gran and little sister today :)
Mattie said
May 21, 2017
I am so glad you protected yourself, and that you took the opportunity to get out when things were going bad. They sure do sound disturbing and bad.
I had something very similar to your thoughts about cowardice - I wanted to be the one on the moral high ground, the one who "wouldn't give up." The loyal one. Looking back, I think I was trying to salvage something from a situation where I had every kind of bad feeling in the world. Of course the alcoholic is really the one who's giving up first - he turns to his mistress, alcohol. And no one blamed me at all. I think maybe some people secretly blamed me for staying so long, based on a few hints, but really no one knows the inside of a relationship, so blaming is beside the point.
I bet you're absolutely right that what he wants to do is to convince you to go back with him. He grabbed that little opening and is trying to run with it. And if you do feel you would consider being with him again if he got some good recovery, you don't have to meet with him for that to be a possibility. The thing is that the early days and months of recovery are rough (as well as prone to the drinker leaving recovery). I would want an alcoholic in recovery to have at least a year of solid recovery before trying to be in a relationship. It would be perfectly reasonable to say to him, making no promises, "If you worked a recovery program hard, that would be the only way I'd be open to being back in the relationship. I'd want a foundation of at least a year of good recovery and sobriety before considering it."
You could expect a tirade of rants and anger and guilting about that, trying to convince you that you're unrealistic ("I don't need any stinkin' recovery!") and controlling. That's the disease trying to preserve itself. If he were really open to recovery, he'd say something like, "I understand why you don't trust me without that much recovery. That's fair and realistic. I hope to demonstrate to you that I can stick with it. I'll be doing everything I can. I know it will be hard, but I want it. Maybe we can keep in touch, but I respect your boundaries about this." Then after that his actions would show that he is taking it seriously.
All of this can be said over the phone or by email or text.
If you're familiar with the patterns of domestic violence, you know that the most dangerous time is right when the woman (it's usually women) has declared her plan to leave. I agree that it's very very important that you not meet with him privately. Also don't go over there to get more of your stuff unless you go with a police escort. They are used to this. I wouldn't even meet publicly, especially if he has any access to guns. I'm afraid the sad truth is that women have died in this situation, thinking, "Oh well, he's rough but he would never do something like that." Remember that he will have been drinking and that scrambles a person's thoughts so that they're not rational. You can see that in the episode about the chicken and not letting you sleep. If he's angry, with the drink in him he will be pure anger. You do not have to have any further interaction with him. I know after a while, your new seemingly empty (but only for a bit) life starts to make you (all of us) miss him. And somehow our minds start to remember the good things and erase the bad things. (This is inaccurate.) And we get a craving, just as they do for the alcohol, and say to ourselves, "I can handle it this time." (Just as they do with the alcohol.) And often we want to be the one on the moral high ground, being "fair" and "listening." But they are master manipulators, and we have to watch out.
I hope you'll take very good care of yourself.
Aline said
May 21, 2017
Thank you, Mattie, for your share and ESH. One of the important things you and Serenity especially made me face was that I have been downplaying A's agression and general violence, to make myself feel better about it... This realization hurts. I've been like a frog being slowly boiled and not noticing or refusing to notice it because the water became warmer, then hotter, very, very slowly. Years ago he used to be mostly very calm and contained. I bet it would pain him immensely as well, if he ever comes to realize this. The disease has twisted a good human being beyond recognition. But this pain will pass, I know. At least now I'm better aware of the reality.
Iamhere said
May 21, 2017
Aline - so glad that you woke up with a new resolve and have some fun things planned for the day. While I was embracing Al-Anon, it was often the simple things I did that helped me with my distorted thinking and lowered self esteem. Taking a walk, visiting a friend, etc. - small things forward facing gave me small pockets of hope for a different life and way of life.
I was not able to 'see' my own denial about my life, my family and my home until I surrendered and began recovery. I still fall into denial at times - it's so sneaky and so entrenched with the disease and relationships. I try harder today to listen to the small voice within even when it conflicts with what my heart wants. It's not always easy to do and I still go sideways but I am better today than before...
If Betty were here, she'd suggest gratitude lists and asset lists and they are easy ways to help change up thinking/processing. (((Hugs))) - sending positive thoughts and prayers that your Sunday is blessed and fun!
Freetime said
May 21, 2017
Aline, you are not alone. I think you have great awareness and are listening to the ESH from our wonderful MIP friends.
I just want to share that I, too, had that exact image of myself as a frog in the gradually heating water, once I started to realize that I had been living with alcoholism for a long time and had not understood it until the crises made it undeniable.
My sponsor suggested at the time that I be gentle with myself, and now I recognize that was good advice. Please do keep yourself safe so you can be around to see the miracle of your own recovery.
Aline said
May 21, 2017
Thank you, Iamhere, Freetime, for your kind words.
el-cee said
May 21, 2017
Thank you for sharing your esh here. I feel your on your way to real change and it will just keep getting better. Being sleep deprived by someone is abuse and ive had that happen to me too and its awful, for me maybe the worst part of all the chaos and mess. I'm glad you stuck to your boundary and got yourself peace and safety.
Your recent inner work is fantastic because getting to the truth of our motives is where we begin to see clearer and rational thinking comes from this. The blame thing and the need to be the one in the right was pretty much the driver in a lot of my motives too and I was always concerned about what people would think. At some point in my recovery program in Alanon I let go of caring what people thought of me, it was such a freeing experience and I still feel that way and its letting more and more of me come out and my relationships are much more honest now.
I think you showed yourself the very opposite of cowardice by sharing your awareness at the meeting, that was brave. Its also very brave to look in and pull out the things hiding inside behind ego and self righteousness and denial. So maybe your whole post is about your journey from cowardice to true bravery.
I think your right to consider your options in terms of meeting him, hes hoping to weaken your resolve. If your not ready to see him and need space and time then you do whats right for you, that's a huge part of our recovery, doing whats right for us. Its okay to not make any decisions about your relationship yet. You could give yourself permission to not make decisions and not be forced into making decisions just yet. Take some time, your clearly becoming aware of the reality here and maybe you need time with this and then the decisions you do make will come from a clear mind and not the old faulty thoughts that for me made such a mess of my life.
Such a hopeful post and I hope you keep coming here and sharing, its valuable for all of us and I love to see these miracles.
Aline said
May 21, 2017
Thank you for your share el-cee, and your kind words.
LinSC said
May 21, 2017
Iam glad you are feeling rested now and stronger. Please don't meet him alone. If you need to get your stuff go with another person, or ask the police for help they will do that service.
linsc
Dear all,
I'm in something of a turmoil right now. A couple of days ago I left our apartment late at night, after a very ugly hour at home. To cut a long story short, he went into a rage, thrashing things, eventually ripping the blanket from me where I was trying to sleep in my bed, telling me he won't let me sleep and I just HAD TO come and make the chicken with him. There was name calling and blaming involved as well. I won't get into the details, they probably don't really matter anyway, but it was BAD. What is really important for me, however, is the fact that he didn't let me sleep when I wanted and needed it, for the third night in the row, and then I got all the other craziness I mentioned when I refused to get up from bed.
At one point he said "Get out", and I figured I would, and should. I wanted to sleep, and it looked like he just wouldn't let me, so I might as well spend a little time getting somewhere I could sleep in peace afterwards. I grabbed the essentials, toothbrush, some underwear, some important documents, and was off. Before I went through the door, he asked something along the lines "why are you leaving" (lol). I said "you told me to get out". He denied. I said "well, then, I'm leaving anyway". I left.
Regarding this moment of leaving: a day before these events I went to a meeting (I have re-started them again, thank you all for encouraging me to get back to them!) and also shared with the group a very recent discovery I made about "why I am taking this crap from him". What I realized was this: a big part of why I was taking all that was cowardice - I don't want to be the one leaving him, because then I would be to blame for our separation, I would be the instigator, I would be the "bad guy". I was deep down afraid of this, and what's more - I was successfully hiding my cowardice from myself. I am grateful that I got to understand this about myself, but the realization didn't come easily and without some pain. I felt embarrassed at first to share this in the meeting, but afterwards I felt incredible relief. I am now sharing this here, so maybe my experience might be useful to someone else as well.
Cutting the story back to now. I can no longer deny that, in large part, it has been cowardice that has kept me from leaving my abf. Yes, I do love him, and yes, Alanon has given me tools and strength to take care of myself again, but these to reasons that had me staying are part of the three, the third being this fear of being the dumper, the one to blame (might be all in my head; I know his mother won't blame me, she has told me she would understand my decision, if it would be to leave). I've accepted this fear, it's still there. And with this acceptance I came to this: if I am to take care of my health and mental well-being, I can't stay with my abf if he is drinking. It is just too damaging to me, and my sleep is really important to me. I know there are people who can sleep 6 hours and go like this for days and maybe even weeks, but I need about 8 hours to be in my best form, and I don't mind more :) I just like to be really, really rested, it brings better quality to my waking hours.
So I spoke to my abf over the phone and told him I'm not coming back, and that if and when he decided to begin some sort of recovery program, then I will consider staying with him. He says he doesn't want to talk about things like that over the phone and asking me to come over. I refused to come over the weekend, we half-agreed to meet next Tuesday evening. I will be in the area, because I have a doctor's appointment that afternoon in a nearby clinic. I don't really want to see him right now, for one thing, and for another, I'm sort of afraid talking to him in person will muddle up my resolve. I don't want to go back to the same situation I left, because if nothing changes, nothing changes. This was shown clearly to me about a month ago, when I left, came back, and all hell broke lose eventually, again. I wouldn't have thought of no-drinking to stay together as a possible boundary I would come up with even a week ago - I previously thought something like "it's his family's flat, I can't ask him to not drink in his own property, I have no right" etc. Now this seems like the only way, and I'm not asking him to do anything, really, so I know this is a real boundary for me, not a threat to him, or an ultimatum. It feels sort of weird, how my mind has changed, but also I feel this is right for me, and maybe even for him.
I haven't really promised to meet him. I'm not entirely sure I should, though it feels like I "owe" this to him, to speak in person - maybe it's that I love him (the sober him), maybe there's some pride involved as well, I'm not sure yet. But maybe I simply should not meet him YET? I have made a new note in my phone: things to read when I'm beginning to doubt my boundary, designed to read through before speaking to him in person. I'm still not entirely sure this is a fool-proof thing, though.
This is HARD. My mind tries to find another way, to cheat my way out of leaving and respecting my own boundary I really need respected. The good thing is, I realize that now. The bad thing is, I don't realize it 100% of the time.
I think I will go to an extra meeting on Monday, it's a bit further away and I will be home late, but I think I need it.
I would really appreciate if you had some ESH on this.
As always, your safety and wellbeing are paramount, please continue to safeguard them. I did find writing my thoughts, realizations, and desired course of action helped me stick to them during times of uncertainty. It can be very confusing when trying to maintain healthier perspectives and boundaries when challenged by someone who is struggling with their own disease.
Hang in there and keep working your program
You are working your recovery and trust the process. I am sending you positive energy and prayers - it's hard to create boundaries and stick to them but it's so worth it!
Aloha Aline and thanks for the post I appreciate all examples of how it works and how to work it because that is how deeply needy I was for peace of mind, serenity and sanity when I finally arrived. I listened to everything from everyone and the program gave me permission to "take what I liked and leave the rest...for later" Our program is awesome and if we keep and open mind we will find help (promise). Early on I found help in the abbreviated presentation of the 12 steps reduced to 3 only. "Trust God, Clean House, Help Others" and that was keeping it as simple as it was given to me. You're doing good...just keep duplicating what you have been doing and what others do that works for them and keep coming back. ((((hugs))))
I am so glad you protected yourself, and that you took the opportunity to get out when things were going bad. They sure do sound disturbing and bad.
I had something very similar to your thoughts about cowardice - I wanted to be the one on the moral high ground, the one who "wouldn't give up." The loyal one. Looking back, I think I was trying to salvage something from a situation where I had every kind of bad feeling in the world. Of course the alcoholic is really the one who's giving up first - he turns to his mistress, alcohol. And no one blamed me at all. I think maybe some people secretly blamed me for staying so long, based on a few hints, but really no one knows the inside of a relationship, so blaming is beside the point.
I bet you're absolutely right that what he wants to do is to convince you to go back with him. He grabbed that little opening and is trying to run with it. And if you do feel you would consider being with him again if he got some good recovery, you don't have to meet with him for that to be a possibility. The thing is that the early days and months of recovery are rough (as well as prone to the drinker leaving recovery). I would want an alcoholic in recovery to have at least a year of solid recovery before trying to be in a relationship. It would be perfectly reasonable to say to him, making no promises, "If you worked a recovery program hard, that would be the only way I'd be open to being back in the relationship. I'd want a foundation of at least a year of good recovery and sobriety before considering it."
You could expect a tirade of rants and anger and guilting about that, trying to convince you that you're unrealistic ("I don't need any stinkin' recovery!") and controlling. That's the disease trying to preserve itself. If he were really open to recovery, he'd say something like, "I understand why you don't trust me without that much recovery. That's fair and realistic. I hope to demonstrate to you that I can stick with it. I'll be doing everything I can. I know it will be hard, but I want it. Maybe we can keep in touch, but I respect your boundaries about this." Then after that his actions would show that he is taking it seriously.
All of this can be said over the phone or by email or text.
If you're familiar with the patterns of domestic violence, you know that the most dangerous time is right when the woman (it's usually women) has declared her plan to leave. I agree that it's very very important that you not meet with him privately. Also don't go over there to get more of your stuff unless you go with a police escort. They are used to this. I wouldn't even meet publicly, especially if he has any access to guns. I'm afraid the sad truth is that women have died in this situation, thinking, "Oh well, he's rough but he would never do something like that." Remember that he will have been drinking and that scrambles a person's thoughts so that they're not rational. You can see that in the episode about the chicken and not letting you sleep. If he's angry, with the drink in him he will be pure anger. You do not have to have any further interaction with him. I know after a while, your new seemingly empty (but only for a bit) life starts to make you (all of us) miss him. And somehow our minds start to remember the good things and erase the bad things. (This is inaccurate.) And we get a craving, just as they do for the alcohol, and say to ourselves, "I can handle it this time." (Just as they do with the alcohol.) And often we want to be the one on the moral high ground, being "fair" and "listening." But they are master manipulators, and we have to watch out.
I hope you'll take very good care of yourself.
I was not able to 'see' my own denial about my life, my family and my home until I surrendered and began recovery. I still fall into denial at times - it's so sneaky and so entrenched with the disease and relationships. I try harder today to listen to the small voice within even when it conflicts with what my heart wants. It's not always easy to do and I still go sideways but I am better today than before...
If Betty were here, she'd suggest gratitude lists and asset lists and they are easy ways to help change up thinking/processing. (((Hugs))) - sending positive thoughts and prayers that your Sunday is blessed and fun!
I just want to share that I, too, had that exact image of myself as a frog in the gradually heating water, once I started to realize that I had been living with alcoholism for a long time and had not understood it until the crises made it undeniable.
My sponsor suggested at the time that I be gentle with myself, and now I recognize that was good advice. Please do keep yourself safe so you can be around to see the miracle of your own recovery.
Thank you for sharing your esh here. I feel your on your way to real change and it will just keep getting better. Being sleep deprived by someone is abuse and ive had that happen to me too and its awful, for me maybe the worst part of all the chaos and mess. I'm glad you stuck to your boundary and got yourself peace and safety.
Your recent inner work is fantastic because getting to the truth of our motives is where we begin to see clearer and rational thinking comes from this. The blame thing and the need to be the one in the right was pretty much the driver in a lot of my motives too and I was always concerned about what people would think. At some point in my recovery program in Alanon I let go of caring what people thought of me, it was such a freeing experience and I still feel that way and its letting more and more of me come out and my relationships are much more honest now.
I think you showed yourself the very opposite of cowardice by sharing your awareness at the meeting, that was brave. Its also very brave to look in and pull out the things hiding inside behind ego and self righteousness and denial. So maybe your whole post is about your journey from cowardice to true bravery.
I think your right to consider your options in terms of meeting him, hes hoping to weaken your resolve. If your not ready to see him and need space and time then you do whats right for you, that's a huge part of our recovery, doing whats right for us. Its okay to not make any decisions about your relationship yet. You could give yourself permission to not make decisions and not be forced into making decisions just yet. Take some time, your clearly becoming aware of the reality here and maybe you need time with this and then the decisions you do make will come from a clear mind and not the old faulty thoughts that for me made such a mess of my life.
Such a hopeful post and I hope you keep coming here and sharing, its valuable for all of us and I love to see these miracles.
linsc