First I want to preface this by stating if nothing changed except you can you see yourself in the relationship 5 days/weeks/months/years (obviously that turns from 5 to 20 in a flash). I also realize that some people do stay because the only thing that changed was them and that is not a negative in the least. I have changed a great deal in the past 5 years and forget about the last 7 .. lol. I have known women who learn to just do their own thing while their A sits and drinks at home. It's ok .. they don't stop living. I stopped living while with my active XAH. I didn't change during that time.
For those who are newly into a relationship I do mean months maybe a couple of years .. if nothing changed with your A and they stayed active possibly bounced between sobriety and active .. could you stay knowing this was what you were getting in terms of a relationship. I'm making that a statement even though it's a question really.
While 12 step recoveries are part of one day at a time, the reality is time marches on. No amount of begging, pleading, screaming is going to make an active A get sober or clean. I'm not talking about the what if's and the fantasies that maybe they "might" get sober .. I'm talking if nothing changes. It's an individual decision to stay or go. It's individual in terms of sobriety. There are happy endings I have witnessed them and I am always in awe of those .. what magic did they have that my XAH and I didn't. I have had days with my current relationship I have to say .. today I choose to stay. Certain times of the month that is an hourly deal .. lol. I did have one addictions counselor point out part of a relationship is making long term plans so while you live one day at a time it is ok to make that long term plan that's a goal. I never did figure out how to make a long term goal with someone who just could not stay out of trouble. Our dual dreams died and again .. I stopped living my life thinking I needed to do so .. which is what Alanon did give me back .. my life to live as I chose.
Everyone arrives at their own answer in their own time ..
If I have a regret .. it would be not leaving when he went to jail the first time (I was 7 months pregnant with my youngest) I was with him (that wasn't his first time come to find out), not finding alanon sooner. It was through step work as well as meetings, sponsorship and so on that I came to my own conclusion which was if nothing changed I just could not continue the way we were. He wasn't interested in changing and part of me respecting that wish was saying I am totally done. I also wish I had been more at peace realizing just how violently ill he truly still is .. and I still struggle with that when the kids are the collateral damage.
So .. if nothing changed and everything continued as it was today .. is that enough to continue the relationship. Going forward my boundaries are so much stronger for what is and is not ok .. my poor BF .. LOL .. realizes that I don't play around when it comes to deal breakers .. it is what it is and there are things I know now that I would not go down that road again. It's just to painful and emotionally expensive. It's now part of who I am because of the past experiences.
Something to file away and not dwell on however knowing what the deal breaker actual is, and when have you done everything possible and the only option is to let go and HP willing .. see what happens either within the relationship or letting go and moving on.
Hugs S :)
Junenine said
May 18, 2017
hi, SerenityRUS. i appreciate this post. sometimes, of course, i look back and question the decisions i made and wrestle with regret. but for the most part, i say i did the best i could with what i knew *at the time*. i've had a lot of confusion about my own boundaries and when is enough, enough... partly because i know my A's issues have nothing to do with me, so i (usually) don't take his behavior personally. however, there's lots of room in my head and experience to doubt and question my own judgment and tolerance and decisions that have brought me to this point.
thanks for sharing.
Stan1 said
May 18, 2017
Good morning Serenity and thank you for your service and share. I think my turning point on "what if nothing changes" was when my counselor said " If you continue to stand behind a Jack ass you will continue to get kicked in the teeth...at least move to the side". Growing up without a Dad untitol my Mom remarried made a 2 parent home very important in my mind, even though with a AH both parents were basically me. The statement by the counselor was my light bulb moment. It was then that recovery in Al-anon began. I filed for legal separation to protect myself financially and became self sufficient. I had no intention of moving on to another relationship and possibly have it also be addictive AA we tend to repeat. While I was growing in Al-Anon my AH chose sobriety and asked me 2 years later if he could come home. My answer was, You moved out to have a relationship with alcohol, I will not live in a triangle relationship, choice is yours. That was over 20 years ago and we are still together and I'm always grateful and proud to be a member of my Al-anon family.
-- Edited by Stan1 on Thursday 18th of May 2017 10:29:41 AM
-- Edited by Stan1 on Thursday 18th of May 2017 11:28:41 AM
2XW said
May 18, 2017
Hi serenityRUS,
Bottom line is that if nothing changes, nothing changes. As a double winner with 91/2 years sobriety after the deal breaker that was supposed to send me packing - there was no "magic" involved just work and a willingness to go to any lengths to get sober. Even today I still try to go to at least 4 meetings a week, I pray every morning and night, read the daily literature from both programs, and call my sponsor every day. I've had 3 sponsors and worked through the steps 3 times. (My first 2 sponsors moved to different cities but we're still in touch) and whenever I travel for work I always plan ahead to attend local meetings. Today my wife and I share our recovery together. We often go to specific AA and A meetings together and turn it into a dinner/date night. (The drama and laughter at these meetings are often better and, for a buck or two donation, significantly cheaper than a movie or show). The only "magic" I can figure besides a sh*tload of hard work might be that because of my own ACOA issues - our codependent tendencies to people please and meet our partner's needs can often cancel each other out.
Iamhere said
May 18, 2017
Love this topic and this thread!! Before Al-Anon recovery, my whole 'me' was so different. I was one who had very high expectation of myself and all others around me. I truly believed the happiness and joy would be 'there' at the destination point. I looked outside myself for happiness, joy, security, serenity and more and truly believe I had distorted views, ideologies and the like way before the disease exploded in my loved ones.
When I began my recovery journey in Al-Anon with many years sober in AA, I really thought I knew it all and this would be a waste of my time/energy. I have never been fond of the "If Nothing Changes, Nothing Changes" because the reality of life is that the only thing that is guaranteed as a constant is change. When I got better in recovery, I then realized that slogan has to do with me, and me growing/changing and nothing else. Any other change that happens around me - good or not - is not because of me, is not directed at me and should not change my journey drastically.
For me, this was a huge turning point. When standing still and realizing that what was real in front of me was an active alcoholic husband + 2 active alcoholic/addict sons that may never change, it was a frightening moment. However, it was in that very same moment that I felt God showing me that I could change, I had choices and I never had to feel alone again.
I've changed and so have they. We've not changed together, and that's OK as that's not realistic. My AH drinks way less because he's got health issues. He's instead opted to become a pill-popping person. Both my sons have been in/out of recovery since I started recovery. I am able to be present in the moment, hope for miracles around me and continue to grow because I've changed.
My life is great today in spite of this disease. I have joy, peace and tons of great friends who support me when needed. Nothing truly has stayed the same and I view that as realistic. I did, once upon a time, ask myself if I could find joy/peace living with active disease all around me. The answer was not No but he!! NO at the time. This was before recovery. Each journey is different, each person is different and there is no One size Fits All answer. Love that the program gives us each the tools and support to find our own way, whatever that is.
SerenityRUS said
May 18, 2017
I think a big prayer for me now and it's something I have been discussing a lot with girlfriends is bless them, change me. That's my prayer. At the same time respecting evaluating and assessing my boundaries in the situation .. what am "I" comfortable with .. where is "my" willingness. Is it an unrealistic expectation. OR is it a deal breaker based upon past experience.
I've been very agitated lately and I don't know why .. no that's not true .. LOL I DO know why .. my daughter graduating which is coming along .. LOL. It's going to be by the seat of our pants kind of thing. Announcements are going out late and so on. This has been a VERY expensive month to say the least. So I have been trying to focus on making sure I stay on my side of the street.
Change is mandatory ... acceptance is optional. If I choose not to accept things as they are then I run the risk of being miserable and worse I have done it to myself .. LOL. Or I can accept the change embrace it and move forward accordingly adapting new healthy behaviors in the process.
It was not possible for various reasons probably the biggest one my lack of maturity for me to stay in the marriage and continue to grow .. I did not and still don't really know what a healthy relationship looks like .. I know what less dysfunction looks like .. I know what is easier in terms of relationships. I had to remove myself completely while my XAH exploded because he was so far gone at that point it was duck and cover trying to remove the kids from the damage on both of our parts .. LOL. What a mess and I laugh because it's easier to see it now with time and distance. I have talked to my kids bout my part and made amends to the best of my ability just try to do better.
Anyway, thanks for listening .. I do think that people who are going into a new relationship with an A seriously need to consider the insanity and can they stay above it .. because there are days it's not easy and I don't have to live with mine.
Hugs :)
a4l said
May 18, 2017
Such an honesty in the saying of nothing changes if nothing changes. For the longest time, I pinned a lot on mouth moving with new words as possible commitments to changes. And true, their were periods where things would swim along for a time quite nicely. But fundamentally, nothing changed. It is a disease, and it has a whole plethora of secondary illnesses. I see now the fragility of each person and really, the odds are so so slim of any change without the specific support of recovery outside ones family circle. We in alanon are so fortunate I beleive, and a good ego free AA program too. I think there are a heap of unknowing doubles in fellowship and see both programmes as wings of the bird which is recovery. Every alcoholic I know personally comes from an alcohol affected family. I've recognised now joint addiction and codependency in two significant interpersonal relationships, being my mother and man I married. Extra crazy really. One person spends years or months dry and nagging the other, then roles switch. The aspect of dry versus sober is important too. Without addressing the whole eco system, growth, change and life itself are stunted. I'm so grateful today. No longer pinning hopes on rainbows, just appreciating the moments they shine, and living life on life's terms, rainbow or not. Thanks for the topic!
LoveNHope said
May 19, 2017
I loved this topic/question, SERENITYRUS!! This really made me answer this for myself, as if I was outside of my relationship with my partner. My answer is no! I would not stay with him if nothing changed. I am trying to hold true to this, as he has never had professional treatment. He just finished a horrific relapse. Anyway, thank you for bringing up this question.
First I want to preface this by stating if nothing changed except you can you see yourself in the relationship 5 days/weeks/months/years (obviously that turns from 5 to 20 in a flash). I also realize that some people do stay because the only thing that changed was them and that is not a negative in the least. I have changed a great deal in the past 5 years and forget about the last 7 .. lol. I have known women who learn to just do their own thing while their A sits and drinks at home. It's ok .. they don't stop living. I stopped living while with my active XAH. I didn't change during that time.
For those who are newly into a relationship I do mean months maybe a couple of years .. if nothing changed with your A and they stayed active possibly bounced between sobriety and active .. could you stay knowing this was what you were getting in terms of a relationship. I'm making that a statement even though it's a question really.
While 12 step recoveries are part of one day at a time, the reality is time marches on. No amount of begging, pleading, screaming is going to make an active A get sober or clean. I'm not talking about the what if's and the fantasies that maybe they "might" get sober .. I'm talking if nothing changes. It's an individual decision to stay or go. It's individual in terms of sobriety. There are happy endings I have witnessed them and I am always in awe of those .. what magic did they have that my XAH and I didn't. I have had days with my current relationship I have to say .. today I choose to stay. Certain times of the month that is an hourly deal .. lol. I did have one addictions counselor point out part of a relationship is making long term plans so while you live one day at a time it is ok to make that long term plan that's a goal. I never did figure out how to make a long term goal with someone who just could not stay out of trouble. Our dual dreams died and again .. I stopped living my life thinking I needed to do so .. which is what Alanon did give me back .. my life to live as I chose.
Everyone arrives at their own answer in their own time ..
If I have a regret .. it would be not leaving when he went to jail the first time (I was 7 months pregnant with my youngest) I was with him (that wasn't his first time come to find out), not finding alanon sooner. It was through step work as well as meetings, sponsorship and so on that I came to my own conclusion which was if nothing changed I just could not continue the way we were. He wasn't interested in changing and part of me respecting that wish was saying I am totally done. I also wish I had been more at peace realizing just how violently ill he truly still is .. and I still struggle with that when the kids are the collateral damage.
So .. if nothing changed and everything continued as it was today .. is that enough to continue the relationship. Going forward my boundaries are so much stronger for what is and is not ok .. my poor BF .. LOL .. realizes that I don't play around when it comes to deal breakers .. it is what it is and there are things I know now that I would not go down that road again. It's just to painful and emotionally expensive. It's now part of who I am because of the past experiences.
Something to file away and not dwell on however knowing what the deal breaker actual is, and when have you done everything possible and the only option is to let go and HP willing .. see what happens either within the relationship or letting go and moving on.
Hugs S :)
hi, SerenityRUS. i appreciate this post. sometimes, of course, i look back and question the decisions i made and wrestle with regret. but for the most part, i say i did the best i could with what i knew *at the time*. i've had a lot of confusion about my own boundaries and when is enough, enough... partly because i know my A's issues have nothing to do with me, so i (usually) don't take his behavior personally. however, there's lots of room in my head and experience to doubt and question my own judgment and tolerance and decisions that have brought me to this point.
thanks for sharing.
Good morning Serenity and thank you for your service and share. I think my turning point on "what if nothing changes" was when my counselor said " If you continue to stand behind a Jack ass you will continue to get kicked in the teeth...at least move to the side". Growing up without a Dad untitol my Mom remarried made a 2 parent home very important in my mind, even though with a AH both parents were basically me. The statement by the counselor was my light bulb moment. It was then that recovery in Al-anon began. I filed for legal separation to protect myself financially and became self sufficient. I had no intention of moving on to another relationship and possibly have it also be addictive AA we tend to repeat. While I was growing in Al-Anon my AH chose sobriety and asked me 2 years later if he could come home. My answer was, You moved out to have a relationship with alcohol, I will not live in a triangle relationship, choice is yours. That was over 20 years ago and we are still together and I'm always grateful and proud to be a member of my Al-anon family.
-- Edited by Stan1 on Thursday 18th of May 2017 10:29:41 AM
-- Edited by Stan1 on Thursday 18th of May 2017 11:28:41 AM
When I began my recovery journey in Al-Anon with many years sober in AA, I really thought I knew it all and this would be a waste of my time/energy. I have never been fond of the "If Nothing Changes, Nothing Changes" because the reality of life is that the only thing that is guaranteed as a constant is change. When I got better in recovery, I then realized that slogan has to do with me, and me growing/changing and nothing else. Any other change that happens around me - good or not - is not because of me, is not directed at me and should not change my journey drastically.
For me, this was a huge turning point. When standing still and realizing that what was real in front of me was an active alcoholic husband + 2 active alcoholic/addict sons that may never change, it was a frightening moment. However, it was in that very same moment that I felt God showing me that I could change, I had choices and I never had to feel alone again.
I've changed and so have they. We've not changed together, and that's OK as that's not realistic. My AH drinks way less because he's got health issues. He's instead opted to become a pill-popping person. Both my sons have been in/out of recovery since I started recovery. I am able to be present in the moment, hope for miracles around me and continue to grow because I've changed.
My life is great today in spite of this disease. I have joy, peace and tons of great friends who support me when needed. Nothing truly has stayed the same and I view that as realistic. I did, once upon a time, ask myself if I could find joy/peace living with active disease all around me. The answer was not No but he!! NO at the time. This was before recovery. Each journey is different, each person is different and there is no One size Fits All answer. Love that the program gives us each the tools and support to find our own way, whatever that is.
I've been very agitated lately and I don't know why .. no that's not true .. LOL I DO know why .. my daughter graduating which is coming along .. LOL. It's going to be by the seat of our pants kind of thing. Announcements are going out late and so on. This has been a VERY expensive month to say the least. So I have been trying to focus on making sure I stay on my side of the street.
Change is mandatory ... acceptance is optional. If I choose not to accept things as they are then I run the risk of being miserable and worse I have done it to myself .. LOL. Or I can accept the change embrace it and move forward accordingly adapting new healthy behaviors in the process.
It was not possible for various reasons probably the biggest one my lack of maturity for me to stay in the marriage and continue to grow .. I did not and still don't really know what a healthy relationship looks like .. I know what less dysfunction looks like .. I know what is easier in terms of relationships. I had to remove myself completely while my XAH exploded because he was so far gone at that point it was duck and cover trying to remove the kids from the damage on both of our parts .. LOL. What a mess and I laugh because it's easier to see it now with time and distance. I have talked to my kids bout my part and made amends to the best of my ability just try to do better.
Anyway, thanks for listening .. I do think that people who are going into a new relationship with an A seriously need to consider the insanity and can they stay above it .. because there are days it's not easy and I don't have to live with mine.
Hugs :)