Someone told me "say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean." I need some new words. In some future conversations I don't think "bullshit", as charming as that word may be, is going to be acceptable. What does everyone else use instead?
hotrod said
May 15, 2017
Hi West Man. Sometimes I still use BS( not the full word) and at other times I say gross exaggeration or tall tale.
SerenityRUS said
May 15, 2017
LOL .. I'm a BS kind of gal. I say that or I will say silently this is the truth according to J (my XAH, also applies to others .. LOL) breathe deep and move forward.
The alanon Ohhh and hmmm works wonders too :)
Stan1 said
May 15, 2017
Hi West Man....I call it a bunch of horsefeathers :)
Iamhere said
May 15, 2017
In my world, if I bother to discuss the affects of the disease, I have to be specific. Any generalities - such as BS just don't work well as it gives more wiggle room for wordsmithing what's coming out of my mouth. I rarely use BS any more - I speak in I statements, and focus on me.
Example - my newly sober son freaked out on me and began to raise his voice. I said nothing, but did give him a 'look' such as WTH just happened!!! That's all it took to add fuel to his fire so I helped unload his stuff from my car and then said Good-bye and departed. For almost 2 days, we texted only - Good morning - hope you have a good day.....very 'polite' things. When he finally called, I'd had enough time to consider what had happened, and was able to say, "The other night in your driveway, I was very hurt by your words and actions." That's it. He apologized and I let it go (which is my new habit, instead of beating a dead horse.)
Between the incident and my truth, I'd talked with my sponsor and attended a couple meetings. Leaning into recovery does help. I am getting better all the time at pausing so I can collect my thoughts. It just goes so much better here when I can. (((Hugs)))
KT2015 said
May 15, 2017
Hi WestMan
Not sure of your situation or the context of how it was used but I will offer my experience. I live with my active AH and my first boundary is I don't talk about anything important with my AH when he has been drinking. Much of what he says when he is drinking is big plans and BS and there is absolutely no point discussing those things with him at that time because he will either forget or change his mind the next day anyway so I find the ohh and hmmm statements pretty helpful in those situations. And in my own mind I just label them as that and let them go so I don't stew on them. When he's sober if we have a difference of opinion where I feel he is not accurately reflecting what happened I use I statements. " That is not what I remember". "That was not what I saw, heard, experienced". I find confronting my AH about his BS the worst thing to do in my situation because he just becomes more entrenched in his denial or whatever it is. I really love that saying "say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean". I'm glad to hear you are reflecting on it. I will admit I had/have a fiery temper when I came into al anon and I am good with the comes backs and I can cut people down to size with my words in a matter of seconds. The past year I have really been able to see how I can hurt people with how I speak to them. I used to justify this behaviour because I felt like I tolerated so much and then would just eventually "snap". I think it was an old survival skill I developed to protect myself at some level. It also succeeded in pushing a lot of people away from me. I often try to remind myself of this and for me it's helpful to address things as they come up not put up with too much until I snap. Thanks to Al anon I have the tools to address things in a more healthy way. I don't have to lean on that old survival technique anymore. It took me a while to really use this slogan well and develop this skill and it's an ongoing process. So glad you are looking at better ways to communicate. All the best!
a4l said
May 15, 2017
"How......interesting."with a raised eyebrow. " That may be true for you, I don't see it that way." " I'm sorry, but that sounds like bullshit to me".
It really depends. Overall though, it, alcoholism is quite the bio organic fuelled engine: it runs on bs to varying degrees. Detaching as best I can by accepting that most of what I hear is bs, and refusing to retreat into fantasy, is my best disposition.
Jerry F said
May 16, 2017
I had to learn it A4l's way rather than use my old method which always came with anger and sarcasm and such that made it worse and too dangerous because of my out of control behavior. So from inside of the meeting rooms I learned, "Could be", "let me take a look at it and get back to you", "It could happen..." while leaving the door open for further discussion rather than building the list of enemies I had. I had a huge list and wasn't very well liked when the disease was raging. I like "it could happen" a lot because that comes out of a old sitcom. (((hugs)))
Mattie said
May 16, 2017
I always look to see what Jerry says because he is inspiring.
WestMan said
May 16, 2017
Great suggestions. In our culture there's certainly a high value placed on "calling it as I see it". This does seem to only benefit one person's ego and only in the short term. It also tends to shut down conversation.
a4l said
May 16, 2017
Ooh that's interesting, the idea of cultural value on certain responses. I shall have to think about it! Passive aggression I think is also common."You may be right/may have a point" was another gem I picked up here. For some people, I have to resist the big urge to add "but I don't think so" ! Others, I've used it, they've completely missed the meaning, taken it as a confirmation and then, I just felt real sorry for them and their disease. Better than revilement and anger and fighting. Good stuff for me to think on. Thanks!
Iamhere said
May 16, 2017
WestMan - for a long while, a man could 'call it like he sees it' at work as was assertive. If a gal did that, she was a b****. In the home, if a man 'calls it as he sees it', he's aggressive/bullying. If a woman does, she's still a b****. Circumstances and situations can affect how anything is perceived and received.
I tend to try and go into business mode with my As. If I act as if it's a job or business, I am often able to better listen for facts and respond 'professionally' which is way better than my former go-to. I had a tongue sharper than a knife and no fear at all of using it. In the other side of the program, we discuss in depth, "Restraint of pen and tongue..."
Here's the actual paragraph ---
"Nothing pays off like restraint of tongue and pen. We must avoid quick-tempered criticism and furious, power-driven arguments. The same goes for sulking or silent scorn. These are emotional booby traps baited with pride and vengefulness. Our first job is to sidestep the traps. When we are tempted by the bait, we should train ourselves to step back and think. For we can neither think nor act to good purpose until the habit of self-restraint has become automatic. -pg. 91, Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions
To sum it up: Keep your thoughts to yourself, so you dont say something you will regret!
I live/die by program suggestions and anytime I am struggling, I pull out literature and can calm myself until I can be positive and/or productive...
Someone told me "say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean." I need some new words. In some future conversations I don't think "bullshit", as charming as that word may be, is going to be acceptable. What does everyone else use instead?
Hi West Man. Sometimes I still use BS( not the full word) and at other times I say gross exaggeration or tall tale.
The alanon Ohhh and hmmm works wonders too :)
Example - my newly sober son freaked out on me and began to raise his voice. I said nothing, but did give him a 'look' such as WTH just happened!!! That's all it took to add fuel to his fire so I helped unload his stuff from my car and then said Good-bye and departed. For almost 2 days, we texted only - Good morning - hope you have a good day.....very 'polite' things. When he finally called, I'd had enough time to consider what had happened, and was able to say, "The other night in your driveway, I was very hurt by your words and actions." That's it. He apologized and I let it go (which is my new habit, instead of beating a dead horse.)
Between the incident and my truth, I'd talked with my sponsor and attended a couple meetings. Leaning into recovery does help. I am getting better all the time at pausing so I can collect my thoughts. It just goes so much better here when I can. (((Hugs)))
Not sure of your situation or the context of how it was used but I will offer my experience. I live with my active AH and my first boundary is I don't talk about anything important with my AH when he has been drinking. Much of what he says when he is drinking is big plans and BS and there is absolutely no point discussing those things with him at that time because he will either forget or change his mind the next day anyway so I find the ohh and hmmm statements pretty helpful in those situations. And in my own mind I just label them as that and let them go so I don't stew on them. When he's sober if we have a difference of opinion where I feel he is not accurately reflecting what happened I use I statements. " That is not what I remember". "That was not what I saw, heard, experienced". I find confronting my AH about his BS the worst thing to do in my situation because he just becomes more entrenched in his denial or whatever it is. I really love that saying "say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean". I'm glad to hear you are reflecting on it. I will admit I had/have a fiery temper when I came into al anon and I am good with the comes backs and I can cut people down to size with my words in a matter of seconds. The past year I have really been able to see how I can hurt people with how I speak to them. I used to justify this behaviour because I felt like I tolerated so much and then would just eventually "snap". I think it was an old survival skill I developed to protect myself at some level. It also succeeded in pushing a lot of people away from me. I often try to remind myself of this and for me it's helpful to address things as they come up not put up with too much until I snap. Thanks to Al anon I have the tools to address things in a more healthy way. I don't have to lean on that old survival technique anymore. It took me a while to really use this slogan well and develop this skill and it's an ongoing process. So glad you are looking at better ways to communicate. All the best!
I had to learn it A4l's way rather than use my old method which always came with anger and sarcasm and such that made it worse and too dangerous because of my out of control behavior. So from inside of the meeting rooms I learned, "Could be", "let me take a look at it and get back to you", "It could happen..." while leaving the door open for further discussion rather than building the list of enemies I had. I had a huge list and wasn't very well liked when the disease was raging. I like "it could happen" a lot because that comes out of a old sitcom. (((hugs)))
I always look to see what Jerry says because he is inspiring.
I tend to try and go into business mode with my As. If I act as if it's a job or business, I am often able to better listen for facts and respond 'professionally' which is way better than my former go-to. I had a tongue sharper than a knife and no fear at all of using it. In the other side of the program, we discuss in depth, "Restraint of pen and tongue..."
Here's the actual paragraph ---
"Nothing pays off like restraint of tongue and pen. We must avoid quick-tempered criticism and furious, power-driven arguments. The same goes for sulking or silent scorn. These are emotional booby traps baited with pride and vengefulness. Our first job is to sidestep the traps. When we are tempted by the bait, we should train ourselves to step back and think. For we can neither think nor act to good purpose until the habit of self-restraint has become automatic. -pg. 91, Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions
To sum it up: Keep your thoughts to yourself, so you dont say something you will regret!
I live/die by program suggestions and anytime I am struggling, I pull out literature and can calm myself until I can be positive and/or productive...